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DavidSt Online
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Post: #41
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
05-16-2017 02:24 AM
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Post: #42
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 01:36 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The HBCU I went to more or less fit that mold, so sorry.

Excuse me, I'm on the internet and I'd like to re-explain your own life experiences to you. lol.
05-16-2017 06:45 AM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #43
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
Chicago State may be a BCU but it ain't an HBCU.
05-16-2017 08:06 AM
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DavidSt Online
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Post: #44
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 08:06 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Chicago State may be a BCU but it ain't an HBCU.

Kennedy-King and Malcolm X are two schools that are black universities but were built after 1960s. They were not qualify as a HBCU schools. Most of the black schools in the north that were on Lincoln's side did not have the rules or laws set in place for these types of schools. It was the south that had to set aside these schools that are now considered HBCUs that are publics. The others that are private were founded by Religious groups or former slaves. So, a school does not mean it is or not a HBCU do not realized that there are schools that were founded by African Americans after 1960s that have not been recognized as a HBCU, or a school that was not attended to be founded as one that became one because of where the schools are located in. There are many Black colleges and universities in NYC alone where the location of the schools are in African American neighborhoods. Even there are many in the Los Angeles area, in Michigan, Minnesota, Boston and so forth where there are a heavy population of African Americans resides.
05-16-2017 08:27 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 08:27 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 08:06 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Chicago State may be a BCU but it ain't an HBCU.

Kennedy-King and Malcolm X are two schools that are black universities but were built after 1960s. They were not qualify as a HBCU schools. Most of the black schools in the north that were on Lincoln's side did not have the rules or laws set in place for these types of schools. It was the south that had to set aside these schools that are now considered HBCUs that are publics. The others that are private were founded by Religious groups or former slaves. So, a school does not mean it is or not a HBCU do not realized that there are schools that were founded by African Americans after 1960s that have not been recognized as a HBCU, or a school that was not attended to be founded as one that became one because of where the schools are located in. There are many Black colleges and universities in NYC alone where the location of the schools are in African American neighborhoods. Even there are many in the Los Angeles area, in Michigan, Minnesota, Boston and so forth where there are a heavy population of African Americans resides.
Words have meaning.

The problem is the H

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05-16-2017 08:31 AM
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arkstfan Online
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Post: #46
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
There have been schools built in recent years that offer education degrees that doesn't make them historically Normal Schools or Teachers Colleges.
05-16-2017 08:34 AM
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Post: #47
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!
05-16-2017 09:08 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.
05-16-2017 09:14 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2017 09:50 AM by Frank the Tank.)
05-16-2017 09:49 AM
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Chuck_A Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

David, give us some credit!! A lot of us that actually live in Chicago on the South Side know the goings-on at the school. We won't think it's a target. Do not insult the collective intelligence of Blacks! The legislature and Community won't let Chicago State close until all avenues are exhausted. Whether Chicago State has outlived its usefulness or not is really a non-starter. The issue is that it is a long standing commodity on the South Side of Chicago serving inner city Blacks and Hispanics with low costs and acceptance rates that are conducive to a foothold in the world of higher education and a betterment of life. There are a multiplicity of opinions that come from emotions, misinformation and downright perpetuation of particular stereotypes as to the viability of Chicago State. Sure former administrations mismanaged funds, screwed up the accreditation and put the school in this predicament. With new people in position being watched to do the right thing, it's now up to Governor Rauner, House Speaker Michael Madigan and the Illinois Legislature to get off their childish, trifling asses and pass a budget that will benefit the State and its Institutions of Higher Learning.
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2017 10:16 AM by Chuck_A.)
05-16-2017 10:00 AM
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Post: #51
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
Kanye West went there and dropped out. That's reason enough to shut it down.
05-16-2017 10:10 AM
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panama Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.
More than likely they get shut down without a peep. It's not like they are the primary educator of urban students in Chicago.

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05-16-2017 10:28 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 09:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)

This is absolutely true and why I think the school will muddle through. It is clear Illinois should close at least two campuses, Chicago State and one of the directional schools (Eastern, Western, whatever). This could allow for significant savings in overhead and better fill seats in the remaining schools, which could be funded better by getting a larger slice of the money. In private business this sort of consolidation happens all the time. And even in private education you will see unsuccessful schools in decline throw in the towel, sell, or move to a better location (my dad helped Pepperdine move to Malibu where they are now thriving, as one example). But universities are much like military bases, it's hard as hell to close them because of the local politics. And in a state like Illinois it's much harder to have a bipartisan school closing commission to say which ones get closed, like we do with military bases (to overcome the local politics). The demographics in the Midwest especially scream for consolidation. Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois are the most overextended in having too many schools, and many areas that have largely depopulated.

It's ironic that in California and Texas the opposite problem exists, where we have too few seats, especially tier-1, so we export students at a massive rate (Stanford, Arizona, and some other schools are full of Texans, and every New England private school of high reputation has Californians as the 4th or 5th largest group of students behind the home state and the neighboring two or three states). In Illinois it's the 2nd and 3rd tier students whom you export, due to lack of confidence in the system.
05-16-2017 10:59 AM
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Post: #54
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 09:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)

Would it be politically viable to turn Chicago State over to another school and lay off most of the staff and have that school operate an extension campus using the Chicago State campus?
05-16-2017 11:12 AM
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Post: #55
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
@Stugray

Texas is really slacking by having only 2.5 elite schools. I mean, Rice is an elite school but it's as big as a high school. Why they've never expanded given how big Houston and Texas is, I'll never know. I know you don't want to water things down and keep a selective applicant and student pool but it certainly wouldn't hurt much to double or triple the student body. Not to mention Texas can dig into that oil money some and elevate about 5 or 6 other schools, especially Texas Tech, Houston, or Texas State.
(This post was last modified: 05-17-2017 11:43 PM by _C2_.)
05-16-2017 01:08 PM
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chess Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
The Washington Generals now have a feeder program.

In all honesty, Chicago State needs to be dissolved. The campus should be restarted as an extension of Northeastern Illinois University or Governor's State University. The school's reputation is so poor, the school cannot attract students.
05-16-2017 01:23 PM
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Post: #57
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 10:59 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 02:24 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  http://hbcuconnect.com/colleges/17/chica...university

https://hbcumoney.com/2013/03/11/hbcu-en...niversity/

http://www.blackexcel.org/hbc-list.htm

So, there are many schools like Chicago State as an unofficial HBCU.

Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)

This is absolutely true and why I think the school will muddle through. It is clear Illinois should close at least two campuses, Chicago State and one of the directional schools (Eastern, Western, whatever). This could allow for significant savings in overhead and better fill seats in the remaining schools, which could be funded better by getting a larger slice of the money. In private business this sort of consolidation happens all the time. And even in private education you will see unsuccessful schools in decline throw in the towel, sell, or move to a better location (my dad helped Pepperdine move to Malibu where they are now thriving, as one example). But universities are much like military bases, it's hard as hell to close them because of the local politics. And in a state like Illinois it's much harder to have a bipartisan school closing commission to say which ones get closed, like we do with military bases (to overcome the local politics). The demographics in the Midwest especially scream for consolidation. Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois are the most overextended in having too many schools, and many areas that have largely depopulated.

It's ironic that in California and Texas the opposite problem exists, where we have too few seats, especially tier-1, so we export students at a massive rate (Stanford, Arizona, and some other schools are full of Texans, and every New England private school of high reputation has Californians as the 4th or 5th largest group of students behind the home state and the neighboring two or three states). In Illinois it's the 2nd and 3rd tier students whom you export, due to lack of confidence in the system.

It is not clear that Illinois should shut down campuses like Eastern Illinois or Western Illinois. Illinois residents are attending colleges outside the state. Illinois, the state, needs room for 50-60,000 more college students. Schools like NIU, NEIU, UIS, ISU, EIU, and WIU should be expanding.

Of course, there are other forces at work in Springfield.
05-16-2017 01:30 PM
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Post: #58
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
Quote: Only 86 freshmen at Chicago State University, as total enrollment drops 25 percent (27 Sep 2016)

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html
05-16-2017 01:34 PM
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Post: #59
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 01:30 PM)chess Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 10:59 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)

This is absolutely true and why I think the school will muddle through. It is clear Illinois should close at least two campuses, Chicago State and one of the directional schools (Eastern, Western, whatever). This could allow for significant savings in overhead and better fill seats in the remaining schools, which could be funded better by getting a larger slice of the money. In private business this sort of consolidation happens all the time. And even in private education you will see unsuccessful schools in decline throw in the towel, sell, or move to a better location (my dad helped Pepperdine move to Malibu where they are now thriving, as one example). But universities are much like military bases, it's hard as hell to close them because of the local politics. And in a state like Illinois it's much harder to have a bipartisan school closing commission to say which ones get closed, like we do with military bases (to overcome the local politics). The demographics in the Midwest especially scream for consolidation. Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois are the most overextended in having too many schools, and many areas that have largely depopulated.

It's ironic that in California and Texas the opposite problem exists, where we have too few seats, especially tier-1, so we export students at a massive rate (Stanford, Arizona, and some other schools are full of Texans, and every New England private school of high reputation has Californians as the 4th or 5th largest group of students behind the home state and the neighboring two or three states). In Illinois it's the 2nd and 3rd tier students whom you export, due to lack of confidence in the system.

It is not clear that Illinois should shut down campuses like Eastern Illinois or Western Illinois. Illinois residents are attending colleges outside the state. Illinois, the state, needs room for 50-60,000 more college students. Schools like NIU, NEIU, UIS, ISU, EIU, and WIU should be expanding.

Of course, there are other forces at work in Springfield.


You have Illinois State down twice. Where are both Southern Illinois and Illinois-Springfield at?
05-16-2017 03:10 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Chicago State To Add Football?!
(05-16-2017 01:30 PM)chess Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 10:59 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:49 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:14 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-16-2017 09:08 AM)Chuck_A Wrote:  Dude, why do you hijack posts with your incessant Div 2 call up talk and your not-quite-right HBCU narrative? Will you please stop it??!!!! Give us all a break!


This is not a call up from D2. This is talk about why Chicago State will not be shut down because of what they are considered as a African American University. There will be a fight to shut the school down which is why many of you all do not understand the full scale of the politics behind these issues. Shutting a school down, and you will have an issue that blacks will think they are targeting them because of the schools they are mostly a majority of.

Amazing - this is actually a relatively clairvoyant point from you. Overall, I agree that there are political forces that are going to make shutting down Chicago State extremely difficult in practicality even though any person from the outside looking in would reasonably wonder how this school could ever be financially sustainable. I wouldn't necessarily attribute this to race, though. This is more about political power on the South Side of Chicago - there's no politician that EVER wants to see a public university shut down in his/her district on his/her watch. That's a guaranteed job killer for such politicians. They will fight tooth and nail against it getting shut down regardless of whether it makes any financial sense at all. (I'm not saying that this is a good thing.)

This is absolutely true and why I think the school will muddle through. It is clear Illinois should close at least two campuses, Chicago State and one of the directional schools (Eastern, Western, whatever). This could allow for significant savings in overhead and better fill seats in the remaining schools, which could be funded better by getting a larger slice of the money. In private business this sort of consolidation happens all the time. And even in private education you will see unsuccessful schools in decline throw in the towel, sell, or move to a better location (my dad helped Pepperdine move to Malibu where they are now thriving, as one example). But universities are much like military bases, it's hard as hell to close them because of the local politics. And in a state like Illinois it's much harder to have a bipartisan school closing commission to say which ones get closed, like we do with military bases (to overcome the local politics). The demographics in the Midwest especially scream for consolidation. Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois are the most overextended in having too many schools, and many areas that have largely depopulated.

It's ironic that in California and Texas the opposite problem exists, where we have too few seats, especially tier-1, so we export students at a massive rate (Stanford, Arizona, and some other schools are full of Texans, and every New England private school of high reputation has Californians as the 4th or 5th largest group of students behind the home state and the neighboring two or three states). In Illinois it's the 2nd and 3rd tier students whom you export, due to lack of confidence in the system.

It is not clear that Illinois should shut down campuses like Eastern Illinois or Western Illinois. Illinois residents are attending colleges outside the state. Illinois, the state, needs room for 50-60,000 more college students. Schools like NIU, NEIU, UIS, ISU, EIU, and WIU should be expanding.

Of course, there are other forces at work in Springfield.

I think the issues with enrollment at places like EIU and WIU go beyond the state budget crisis. The big issue is that there is a fairly large segment of Illinois students that aren't able to get into the University of Illinois flagship but have grades and test scores that are much higher than what's required for the other in-state universities. That critical mass of students is leaving for Indiana University, Purdue, the University of Iowa, the University of Missouri, etc. There's a very large academic quality (or at least academic perception) gap between those neighboring out-of-state options compared to the non-UIUC in-state options. This has long been an issue in the Illinois state higher education system and it's being compounded further by the state budget issues. (Note that the state budget issues are NOT impacting enrollment at UIUC, which has another record number of freshmen coming in. That speaks to academic quality still being top of mind over anything else.)
05-16-2017 03:51 PM
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