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If 18 is the magic number.......
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XLance Offline
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Post: #1
If 18 is the magic number.......
Currrently the P5 consists of 65 teams . If 18 is the magic number where do the other 7 come from?
Since the Big 12 went through the process last year, we can assume that their findings would hold up for the rest of the new P4.
IIRC their top 4 were (in no particular order) were UConn, Houston, Cincinnati and BYU .
So which three fill out the top 72 and which conference do the little 7 go to?

Are there enough top level teams for all 4 P leagues to get to 18 (if the Big 12 goes away)?
05-13-2017 04:51 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #2
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-13-2017 04:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  Currrently the P5 consists of 65 teams . If 18 is the magic number where do the other 7 come from?
Since the Big 12 went through the process last year, we can assume that their findings would hold up for the rest of the new P4.
IIRC their top 4 were (in no particular order) were UConn, Houston, Cincinnati and BYU .
So which three fill out the top 72 and which conference do the little 7 go to?

Are there enough top level teams for all 4 P leagues to get to 18 (if the Big 12 goes away)?

Not in my opinion. I don't share a need for symmetry among conferences anyway, so this doesn't bother me. Getting the PAC to 18 would be a huge stretch, and I wouldn't want to see what an ACC would look like with four more teams.
05-13-2017 04:56 PM
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NJ2MDTerp Offline
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Post: #3
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
If the PAC 12 has an institutional bias against religious schools, BYU is out of the P4 picture all together.
05-13-2017 05:31 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #4
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
You're more likely to see a P3 rather than a P4 in that scenario.

The Pac 18, Big 10, and SEC get automatic bids to the semifinals. Their conference playoffs act as de facto quartefinal and first round games.

The leftovers of the ACC, Big 12, and Houston keep the ACC name, and face the G5 champion in the quarterfinals. The ACC Championship game and the G5 Championship game act as first round games.

Effectively, you would have a 16-team playoff with the following:

4 SEC
4 B1G
4 PAC
2 ACC
2 G5

Given the concerns about injuries, the regular season likely gets cut back to 11 games, which still keeps the season at 15 games for the finalists.
05-13-2017 05:35 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
Expansion is driven by money.

With cord cutting the money is drying up. The only thing the networks might pay more for is an expansion of the post season.

Eight team playoff and/or a better arrangement for the G5 champs to pull in viewers is money left on the table.

Traditional conference TV packages are going down in value.
05-13-2017 05:47 PM
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SouthEastAlaska Offline
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RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
Ok, this entire thing is just to get a glimpse of what 4×18 might look like so don't shoot me if you don't like who I put in your conference. Drum roll please.........

ACC North- B1G West- PAC North- SEC West-
B.C.------------- Baylor--------- UW--------------Kansas
Syracuse------Oklahoma----WSU-----------Texas A&M
Pitt---------------Nebraska-----Oregon--------TCU
WVU------------ Iowa------------Oregon St.---Oklahoma St.
Cinci.----------- Iowa St.-------BYU------------ Arkansas
N.D.--------------Minnesota---Utah------------LSU

ACC Central- B1G Central- PAC South- SEC Central-
Louisville----- Wisconsin-----California----Missouri
Memphis------Illinois-----------Stanford------Vanderbilt
Virginia-------- NW--------------- USC-------------Ole Miss
Va Tech--------Purdue----------UCLA-----------Miss St.
UNC--------------Indiana---------Arizona--------Alabama
Duke-------------MSU-------------ASU--------------Auburn

ACC South- B1G East- PAC East- SEC East-
N.C. St.-------- Michigan-----Colorado------Kentucky
Wake F.---------Ohio St.-------Kansas St.----Tenn
GTech-----------Penn St.------Texas------------ECU
Clemson-------UCONN------New Mexico---Georgia
Florida St.-----Rutgers------Texas Tech----South Car.
Miami-----------Maryland----Houston--------Florida

And there we have it. So in my super hypothetical alignments every conference has to eat a little bit of the g5 burger to get to 72. But along with the g5's they also all received some high value programs as well. Let me know what you think.

Also let the record reflect that there is only so many g5's that would be considered for this kind of realignment, i chose to include Cincinnati, Memphis, UCONN, BYU, New Mexico, Houston, and ECU, I'm sure you could convince me to include different one's. Other's that would probably take some consideration would be in no particular order, Boise State, UNLV, Colorado State, Rice, Tulane, UCF, and USF. IMO beyond these g programs it gets pretty hard to make a case for inclusion. 04-cheers
05-13-2017 10:48 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #7
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
The "magic number" remains 12. Expansion to 14 is because the specific schools available offered a sufficient increase in value to justify the expansion, not because of a seismic shift in the "magic number". The threshold value that a 15th and 16th adds has to be greater again. And the threshold value that a 17th & 18th adds has to be still greater.
05-14-2017 01:34 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-14-2017 01:34 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The "magic number" remains 12. Expansion to 14 is because the specific schools available offered a sufficient increase in value to justify the expansion, not because of a seismic shift in the "magic number". The threshold value that a 15th and 16th adds has to be greater again. And the threshold value that a 17th & 18th adds has to be still greater.

Big 10's Delany was thinking of going to 22 teams.

Florida State
Clemson
North Carolina
Virginia
Kansas
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Texas

That would give them up to 22 teams.

SEC would grab NC State and Virginia Tech. Could they grab Cincinnati since they are in a neighboring State? West Virginia could be in the mix for the SEC because of Virginia Tech.

But, there seems to be the need for 4 mega conference with 80 teams to make 20 in a conference. Who would they take that are the best names in football and basketball?

BYU, Boise State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Villanova all have both.

Eastern Washington, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, James Madison, Jacksonville State, Old Dominion, Toledo, Ohio, Northern Illinois, Illinois State, Chattanooga, Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Cincinnati, Navy, Air Force and some other are good at football only.

To avoid anti-trust lawsuits? The mega conference must take schools in states not represented in an FBS P5 conference that are public. Mass., Delaware, Idaho, Dakotas, Rhode Island, Conn., Montana, and several other states do not have a representative at all.

That is one of the reasons why Boise State keeps coming up as a candidate for the PAC 12. Even if the academics are not up there, they do bring a good football and men's basketball team that could be a boast for the PAC 12. Even if the PAC 12 network is hurting, Boise State is a hit on ESPN. Having hot teams like Boise State, Air Force and Houston in the PAC 12 could bring more competition to them which could raise the ratings for the network.
05-14-2017 02:32 AM
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templefootballfan Offline
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Post: #9
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
Pac-12 adds Hawaii & Hous
B-12 adds BYU, UConn, Cin, Memphis, UCF, USF, Temple & Buffalo
B-12 needs the bigger fan base
05-14-2017 06:32 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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Post: #10
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
If 18
Big Ten: Missouri, Kansas, UConn, Iowa State
ACC: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Temple, UCF
PAC: Texas, UNLV, Houston, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Oklahoma State
SEC: Oklahoma, TCU, E. Carolina, South Florida, West Virginia
05-14-2017 06:44 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-14-2017 02:32 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 01:34 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  The "magic number" remains 12. Expansion to 14 is because the specific schools available offered a sufficient increase in value to justify the expansion, not because of a seismic shift in the "magic number". The threshold value that a 15th and 16th adds has to be greater again. And the threshold value that a 17th & 18th adds has to be still greater.

Big 10's Delany was thinking of going to 22 teams.

Florida State
Clemson
North Carolina
Virginia
Kansas
Notre Dame
Oklahoma
Texas

That would give them up to 22 teams.

SEC would grab NC State and Virginia Tech. Could they grab Cincinnati since they are in a neighboring State? West Virginia could be in the mix for the SEC because of Virginia Tech.

But, there seems to be the need for 4 mega conference with 80 teams to make 20 in a conference. Who would they take that are the best names in football and basketball?

BYU, Boise State, North Dakota State, South Dakota State, Villanova all have both.

Eastern Washington, ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, James Madison, Jacksonville State, Old Dominion, Toledo, Ohio, Northern Illinois, Illinois State, Chattanooga, Middle Tennessee State, Western Kentucky, Cincinnati, Navy, Air Force and some other are good at football only.

To avoid anti-trust lawsuits? The mega conference must take schools in states not represented in an FBS P5 conference that are public. Mass., Delaware, Idaho, Dakotas, Rhode Island, Conn., Montana, and several other states do not have a representative at all.

That is one of the reasons why Boise State keeps coming up as a candidate for the PAC 12. Even if the academics are not up there, they do bring a good football and men's basketball team that could be a boast for the PAC 12. Even if the PAC 12 network is hurting, Boise State is a hit on ESPN. Having hot teams like Boise State, Air Force and Houston in the PAC 12 could bring more competition to them which could raise the ratings for the network.

Dude Villanova, S Danota St and NDSU are not known for both basketball and football.
05-14-2017 06:45 AM
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Post: #12
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-13-2017 04:51 PM)XLance Wrote:  Currrently the P5 consists of 65 teams . If 18 is the magic number where do the other 7 come from?
Since the Big 12 went through the process last year, we can assume that their findings would hold up for the rest of the new P4.
IIRC their top 4 were (in no particular order) were UConn, Houston, Cincinnati and BYU .
So which three fill out the top 72 and which conference do the little 7 go to?

Are there enough top level teams for all 4 P leagues to get to 18 (if the Big 12 goes away)?

18 is a magic number?

3 is a magic number ...
3 6's is the sign of the devil
3 x 6 = 18

Damn, you might be right!
05-14-2017 07:24 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #13
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
PAC

Pacific Division: Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

Prairie Division: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, OK State, Kansas, Kansas St, Colorado, TCU, Iowa St

B1G

Legends: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St

Leaders: Florida St, Miami, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Clemson

SEC

West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Missouri, Vanderbilt

East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, West Virginia, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech

8 team playoff, 6 division champs plus best two non-champs at-large. 13 game regular season beginning in Week Zero.
05-14-2017 03:57 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #14
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-14-2017 03:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  PAC

Pacific Division: Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

Prairie Division: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, OK State, Kansas, Kansas St, Colorado, TCU, Iowa St

B1G

Legends: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St

Leaders: Florida St, Miami, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Clemson

SEC

West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Missouri, Vanderbilt

East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, West Virginia, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech

8 team playoff, 6 division champs plus best two non-champs at-large. 13 game regular season beginning in Week Zero.

Going back to "Legends and leaders" is even funnier than Big Easters Miami and Pitt going to the Big 10!
05-14-2017 04:12 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #15
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-14-2017 04:12 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 03:57 PM)ken d Wrote:  PAC

Pacific Division: Washington, Oregon, Cal, Stanford, USC, UCLA, Arizona, Arizona St, Utah

Prairie Division: Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, OK State, Kansas, Kansas St, Colorado, TCU, Iowa St

B1G

Legends: Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska, Illinois, Penn St, Ohio St, Michigan, Michigan St

Leaders: Florida St, Miami, Virginia, UNC, Duke, Georgia Tech, Maryland, Pitt, Clemson

SEC

West: Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss St, LSU, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Missouri, Vanderbilt

East: Kentucky, Tennessee, South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, West Virginia, Louisville, NC State, Virginia Tech

8 team playoff, 6 division champs plus best two non-champs at-large. 13 game regular season beginning in Week Zero.

Going back to "Legends and leaders" is even funnier than Big Easters Miami and Pitt going to the Big 10!

That's what I was going for. 04-cheers
05-15-2017 09:18 AM
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Post: #16
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
if magic number is 3 × 18

west-18
USC,UCLA, Stan, Cal, Ore, Wash
Ariz, ArizSt, Utah, Col, Tex, TT
Ok, OkSt, Kan, IowaSt, Neb, Mizzou

north-18
Minn, Wisc, Iowa, ILL, MichSt, Mich
OhioSt, Pur, Indy, ND, PennSt, Pitt,
BC, Cuse, MD, Va, UNC, Duke

south-18
Flor, FlorSt, Ga, GT, scar, Clem
Ky, Lou, Tenn, WV, NCSU, VT
LSU,Ark, Tex A&M, Ole Miss, Bama, Auburn

Kicked Out-11
OreSt, WashSt
KanSt, TCU, Baylor
NW, Rut
MissSt, Vandy
Wake, Miami
05-15-2017 09:28 AM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #17
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
Of course, my suggestion above requires rethinking the remaining conferences as well (especially since 11 schools currently in the P5 no longer are).

ACC: Wake Forest, BC, Syracuse, Rutgers, UConn, Cincinnati, Indiana, Purdue and Northwestern.

AAC: ECU, USF, UCF, Memphis, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU, Houston and Baylor.

MWC: Air Force, Colorado St, Wyoming, Boise St, New Mexico, New Mexico St, Montana, Montana St, Idaho.

Pacific Coast: Hawaii, Washington St, Oregon St, San Jose St, Fresno St, San Diego St, Nevada, UNLV and Utah St.

MAC, C-USA and Sunbelt remain unchanged.

Independents: Notre Dame, BYU, Army, Navy, UMass, Temple, Liberty.


MAC and C-USA, which have a CCG, start their season in Week Zero and end in Week 14.

All others start in Week 1 and end in Week 14.

These 79 schools have an 8 team championship playoff beginning in Week 15. It consists of the 7 conference champions and the highest ranked independent.

We could call it the Great Eight Championship Series.

Don't you just love the off season? What a great time to fantasize.
05-15-2017 09:54 AM
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The Sicatoka Offline
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Post: #18
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-14-2017 06:44 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  If 18
Big Ten: Missouri, Kansas, UConn, Iowa State
ACC: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Temple, UCF
PAC: Texas, UNLV, Houston, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Oklahoma State
SEC: Oklahoma, TCU, E. Carolina, South Florida, West Virginia

[Image: giphy.gif]
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2017 01:08 PM by The Sicatoka.)
05-15-2017 01:07 PM
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Post: #19
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
(05-15-2017 01:07 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  
(05-14-2017 06:44 AM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  If 18
Big Ten: Missouri, Kansas, UConn, Iowa State
ACC: Notre Dame, Cincinnati, Temple, UCF
PAC: Texas, UNLV, Houston, Texas Tech, Kansas State, Oklahoma State
SEC: Oklahoma, TCU, E. Carolina, South Florida, West Virginia

[Image: giphy.gif]

LOL, anything to get ECU in there.
05-15-2017 01:27 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #20
RE: If 18 is the magic number.......
Is 18 the magic number? This entire question reveals the borderline autism people in this forum suffer, needing to force symmetry into asymmetric order. There is nothing new in this obsession, and it is ancient, applying even to the order of heaven.

In the ancient days the focus on magic numbers on irregular systems centered around the calendar. There was a concept of the perfect calendar, referred to as the perfect Mesopotamian calendar. 365 days plus the occasional leap day to keep the seasons from getting awry led to the composition of various calendars. One such divided the year into 4 sets of 3 months with 30 days in each, with a "leap" day for each solstice, 91 days in each 3 month set, every 1st month of each quarter started on the same day. The 365th was either dispensed with or was a non counting day (I think they actually had a leap week every 5 to 6 years to keep the week and month starting on the same day).

I mention this because such a "perfect" calendar, as must be held in the heavens, makes an appearance in the book of revelation, where 42 months are referred to as 1260 days; all those unseemly extra days vanishing. It of course is a Matrix like dreamscape, just as 18 team conferences with (I guess) Notre Dame being that unseemly 65th.

The real calendar was the one the Romans tinkered with, building on the existing structure and just making the damn thing work with extra days on some months, and February being irregular. Ever practical and working with the structure as it exists. This Roman effort survives to this day, the perfect calendars all never held.

Conferences are irregular and messy in organization because they are part of the real world. Beauty is not in artificial symmetry, but in the ranging and overlapping fractal world, with patterns of unpredictable randomness. Only madmen demand perfect order. Or those of us with borderline autism.
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2017 03:11 PM by Stugray2.)
05-15-2017 01:28 PM
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