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Which conference values Kansas most?
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StinkyDuck Offline
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Which conference values Kansas most?
I think the SEC, PAC12, or Big 10 would take Kansas if their is another round of realignment. But which one sees more value by adding them?

Kansas is AAU so on the academic side they would be coveted.

I think we can all agree that they add nothing to the football side. Since the SEC is typically the better football conference year in year out I would think they see more value just in the sense that for the most part it's a win for the other programs.

On the basketball side I think the PAC12 and Big 10 value them more. This would add more must see match ups that the networks would love to have. (Kansas-UCLA, Kansas Michigan St., etc....). The SEC's basketball isn't that great overall so they could use a program like Kansas but all that would be worth watching most years would be Kentucky-Kansas. Then again, the SEC could see that alone as valuable as it would raise the perception of their basketball programs.

So, which conference do you think values Kansas the most and why?
05-12-2017 12:09 AM
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JRsec Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Any one that lands either Texas or Oklahoma and wants a travel companion of note.
05-12-2017 12:59 AM
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Stugray2 Online
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Kansas is strictly a partner to either OU or Texas to the SEC or B1G. They will continue to suck in football and provide wins for other schools in the conference helping thier bowl eligibility, but lowering their SoS at the same time. The SEC schools need those W's in conference more than the SoS, so brutal is the schedule now.

I think the SEC would find more value in KU than the B1G. They can absorb the SoS hit a little better due to having more high powered teams. But what KU brings is elite Basketball on a Duke-North Carolina, Kentucky level. This would give the SEC a two-headed monster in UK-KU much like the ACC in Duke-UNC. It would make the SEC a top shelf Basketball conference in reality and perception, a true rival of the ACC with "depth" schools below those two such as Vandy, Florida, and currently South Carolina under Frank Martin. The other thing it would do is bring another true rivalry game in house with the Border War between KU and Mizzou. Finally KU would give the SEC a 5th AAU school and improve the pedigree of the conference academically, thus reducing the validity of the Squidbillies jokes about the conference.

For the Big Ten, KU is a natural fit with Nebraska, Iowa and even Illinois. In Bbasketball they would give the league a shot in the arm. But the B1G is deeper in strong basketball programs, just the elite ones are not quite on that Duke-UNC-KU-UK level (Indiana and Michigan are just a notch below that, in the Arizona, UCLA category), so the boost would not be as great. In Football the B1G needs more SoS boost than wins, so the value seems less.

Culturally KU if they came with Oklahoma, would be a good fit in either conference. In the SEC they would fit in with Mizzou, OU, plus UK and Vandy, as well as Tennessee basketball rivals. In the BIG I already laid out their fits., just add OU.

When I add it up, the SEC seems the better value. KU would still dominate in Basketball with many weaker programs, but would gain a massive SEC tournament rival in UK. Those games would be must see TV. I don't think KU-Michigan or KU-IU would be quite the same level.

Flipping the equation, KU faces the same long term issues that UNL and OU do about smaller state on the plains with declining demographics. Membership in the B1G is definitely better for the institution and attracting out of state higher end students and research grants. This could be a split decision if both conferences offered.
05-12-2017 02:36 AM
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10thMountain Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
I see that as a plus for KU either way. They either become yet another school dipping from the Chicagoland well for all the talented kids who didn't get into UIL but still want to attend a B1G school or they continue to get access to Texas and the huge expanding demographics of the South where if you can't go to the family school you still want to attend a SEC school.

OU/KU is arguably the best possible western combo the SEC could land.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 07:15 AM by 10thMountain.)
05-12-2017 07:13 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Pac 12 should offer ku, ksu, ou and ok st to jump to 16. No politics, no problems with those 4 and the get a huge football and basketball brand in the central time zone. Than the focus goes to adding Texas and Texas tech and/or maybe Houston to jump to 18-20
05-12-2017 08:34 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 08:34 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Pac 12 should offer ku, ksu, ou and ok st to jump to 16. No politics, no problems with those 4 and the get a huge football and basketball brand in the central time zone. Than the focus goes to adding Texas and Texas tech and/or maybe Houston to jump to 18-20

I agree on KU and OU. Both would be nice fits in the PAC12, not sure about the other two. I would prefer to see them pick up Houston and Tech. I really do not see Texas going west and would not be shocked, if the Big12 falls apart to see them take the Notre Dame route.

As for the OP, I think the PAC12 values Kansas most. They would be a great fit.
05-12-2017 08:57 AM
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BePcr07 Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Whichever conference Kansas finds itself in values Kansas most! If I were Kansas, I would look at, in order: 1) money (I hate that I'm prioritizing this, but it is what it is), 2) conference prestige, 3) academically similar institutions, 4) geographically similar institutions, 5) a focus in basketball, 6) Kansas St.

These considerations lead me to these conferences, in this order: B1G, PAC, SEC, ACC, AAC, MWC.
05-12-2017 09:00 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 07:13 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  I see that as a plus for KU either way. They either become yet another school dipping from the Chicagoland well for all the talented kids who didn't get into UIL but still want to attend a B1G school or they continue to get access to Texas and the huge expanding demographics of the South where if you can't go to the family school you still want to attend a SEC school.

OU/KU is arguably the best possible western combo the SEC could land.

Agreed. Not only does it help the SEC by expanding its reach into two more contiguous states, it goes a long way toward capturing the north Texas market. And taking Kansas stymies B1G expansion at the same time. With OU and Kansas off the table, the B1G isn't likely to have any interest in Texas, or Texas with them. Austin would be over 800 miles away from the nearest B1G school (Nebraska) and 1000 miles from any other.

This move also keeps a wounded, but still viable, Big 12 on its western flank, giving them access to attractive OOC games and bowl opponents. It adds one blue blood and one excellent basketball program.

It would enable the SEC to move Mizzou to the west, and move Alabama and Auburn to the east, adding competitive balance to the league as a whole, and improving their chances of having a second team in the CFP.

It's hard to see any downside to such a move. My only question is whether Kansas would agree to join the SEC.
05-12-2017 09:18 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Can't help but think KU loses regardless of anyone probably lining up to take them (and they would).

The Big 8 had some of the best recruiting pipelines in the country. The worker-bees of Oklahoma, Colorado, and Nebraska could find their way into any part of the country for football. Kansas held up the basketball.

Kansas still upholds the conference's basketball, but it looks like the program needs a directional point from which to tether. And, I think that point is in Texas.

I don't see Kansas and Oklahoma going anywhere together, and that's bad. I don't see Kansas and Texas going anywhere together, either, or, at least, I don't see Kansas and Texas going somewhere together as a pod.

I do see Kansas as either a future Big Ten, PAC, or ACC prospect. The question becomes, who else goes with them? It's probably not State if it's Big Ten or PAC...it's not both UT or OU if it's the others.
05-12-2017 09:24 AM
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bluesox Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Hard to see where Kansas goes to the pac 12 solo or OU since those 2 would go to the big 10 if ditching their instate partner. Thus, the PAC 12 can do nothing which is a huge risk, hope Texas picks them or settle for leftovers if they ever expand
05-12-2017 10:00 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Which conference values Kansas most? The Big East.

Kansas hoops coach said Big East was set to invite four Big XII teams had Texas opted out

This would have unquestionably saved the Big East.
05-12-2017 10:16 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 09:24 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Can't help but think KU loses regardless of anyone probably lining up to take them (and they would).

The Big 8 had some of the best recruiting pipelines in the country. The worker-bees of Oklahoma, Colorado, and Nebraska could find their way into any part of the country for football. Kansas held up the basketball.

Kansas still upholds the conference's basketball, but it looks like the program needs a directional point from which to tether. And, I think that point is in Texas.

I don't see Kansas and Oklahoma going anywhere together, and that's bad. I don't see Kansas and Texas going anywhere together, either, or, at least, I don't see Kansas and Texas going somewhere together as a pod.

I do see Kansas as either a future Big Ten, PAC, or ACC prospect. The question becomes, who else goes with them? It's probably not State if it's Big Ten or PAC...it's not both UT or OU if it's the others.

Kansas is a true national recruiting school for basketball (where they basically compete for the same set of recruits that also look at Kentucky, Duke and UNC). To the extent that they have a directional point for basketball recruiting, it's honestly the Chicago area much more than Texas (which points to being more Big Ten-centric). Much to my chagrin as an Illini guy, KU does a great job getting Chicagoland recruits with Bill Self's ties there (and the national name brand is more than strong enough to outlast Bill Self's tenure). Regardless, regional or home state advantages are mitigated quite greatly in basketball compared to football (and for a school like KU, it's almost entirely irrelevant). For the blue blood hoops programs, they're chasing after the same set of superstar recruits no matter where they might live.
05-12-2017 10:34 AM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Some very good points. Adding Kansas and a 5th AAU school would be a boost for the SEC's academic reputation.

But not so much for the Big Ten. Kansas may be in the AAU but most academic rankings put it closer to Nebraska and Oklahoma than to Rutgers and MD. Kansas would be the 2nd lowest academic rated school in the BigTen if it were added, just barely ahead of Nebraska. The academic elites in the BigTen are not excited about Kansas.
05-12-2017 11:00 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 10:16 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Which conference values Kansas most? The Big East.

Kansas hoops coach said Big East was set to invite four Big XII teams had Texas opted out

This would have unquestionably saved the Big East.

Sort of. What probably would have happened officially is the leftover schools in the Big12 would have officially invited all 8 of the Big East football schools to the Big12. In the end, the Big East football conference still goes away and the Big East still turns into a non-football conference.
05-12-2017 11:05 AM
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AntiG Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  And taking Kansas stymies B1G expansion at the same time. With OU and Kansas off the table, the B1G isn't likely to have any interest in Texas, or Texas with them. Austin would be over 800 miles away from the nearest B1G school (Nebraska) and 1000 miles from any other.

Not really. The B1G has coveted Texas since the 90s and pretty much has a standing invite out to them. If Texas wants to join the B1G, the B1G will have the same interest that they've always had.
05-12-2017 11:36 AM
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ken d Online
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 11:36 AM)AntiG Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  And taking Kansas stymies B1G expansion at the same time. With OU and Kansas off the table, the B1G isn't likely to have any interest in Texas, or Texas with them. Austin would be over 800 miles away from the nearest B1G school (Nebraska) and 1000 miles from any other.

Not really. The B1G has coveted Texas since the 90s and pretty much has a standing invite out to them. If Texas wants to join the B1G, the B1G will have the same interest that they've always had.

And how is it that you know this to be true? The landscape has changed a lot since the 90's. I'm not at all sure that UT could muster 11 votes from the current roster of B1G schools.

I don't believe the fact that they would not be in a contiguous state would be the reason they would be excluded. I think a bigger reason would be how hard they are to get along with. And, an absolute requirement for the B1G, IMO, would be that UT merge the LHN with the BTN for an equal share.

Who would you expect the B1G would invite to join Texas as new members?
05-12-2017 11:53 AM
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megadrone Online
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 11:05 AM)goofus Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 10:16 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Which conference values Kansas most? The Big East.

Kansas hoops coach said Big East was set to invite four Big XII teams had Texas opted out

This would have unquestionably saved the Big East.

Sort of. What probably would have happened officially is the leftover schools in the Big12 would have officially invited all 8 of the Big East football schools to the Big12. In the end, the Big East football conference still goes away and the Big East still turns into a non-football conference.

I don't know. The C7 would have stayed with that configuration. The C7 weren't thrilled with the quality of basketball coming in from C-USA.

I think the real sticking point would have been if that configuration could have received a contract bowl once the BCS went away. The Big East was still an at-large AQ for football without a permanent destination. While the football would still be stronger with Missouri and K-State, I don't know if it would have been strong enough to take the Big 12's Fiesta bowl contract slot.

I don't know if the deal with those 4 would have fallen apart, but I think the basketball strength brought in with Kansas and Iowa State would have kept the C7 (and probably Notre Dame) in the conference.

The knock on the Big East was that if you didn't get West Virginia you didn't get a good traveling team. Coupled with the tendency to send a non-BCS worthy team every 5 to 6 years, it wouldn't have looked good. But if Notre Dame negotiated with this group (Pitt-Syracuse-WVU-Louisville-K State and Mizzou) for bowls, maybe that would have made a difference.
05-12-2017 12:11 PM
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Soobahk40050 Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
OP: My guess would be both the SEC and the PAC "need" Kansas more. I use the term lightly as the SEC is probably fine with the status quo until something happens.

But the SEC needs a short in the arm in basketball and academics. The PAC needs the central state markets.

On the other hand, I wonder what Kansas wants most. They are a blue-blood but have to consider recruiting, competition level, etc. If as posted above, Kansas recruits Chicago more than Texas, then perhaps moving to the Big 10 makes sense. However, there they have to play against Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue and Indiana. A move to the SEC, for instance, would mean games against Kentucky and Florida, but perhaps not much other competition year in year out for basketball. Being able to the big fish in a small pond may be appealing to them.
05-12-2017 01:00 PM
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AntiG Offline
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 11:53 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 11:36 AM)AntiG Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 09:18 AM)ken d Wrote:  And taking Kansas stymies B1G expansion at the same time. With OU and Kansas off the table, the B1G isn't likely to have any interest in Texas, or Texas with them. Austin would be over 800 miles away from the nearest B1G school (Nebraska) and 1000 miles from any other.

Not really. The B1G has coveted Texas since the 90s and pretty much has a standing invite out to them. If Texas wants to join the B1G, the B1G will have the same interest that they've always had.

And how is it that you know this to be true? The landscape has changed a lot since the 90's. I'm not at all sure that UT could muster 11 votes from the current roster of B1G schools.

I don't believe the fact that they would not be in a contiguous state would be the reason they would be excluded. I think a bigger reason would be how hard they are to get along with. And, an absolute requirement for the B1G, IMO, would be that UT merge the LHN with the BTN for an equal share.

Who would you expect the B1G would invite to join Texas as new members?

When the time comes, they'll figure out a way to deal with the LHN mess. But they'll be able to get the votes for Texas to join. Most likely the conference will invite Texas and Oklahoma when the time is right. If the hypothetical that was introduced (KU and OU already gone), then I could certainly see the B1G just taking Texas alone if Texas wants it. Its not like the conference has an issue being uneven, they were at 11 for over two decades.
05-12-2017 01:01 PM
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RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 10:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 09:24 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Can't help but think KU loses regardless of anyone probably lining up to take them (and they would).

The Big 8 had some of the best recruiting pipelines in the country. The worker-bees of Oklahoma, Colorado, and Nebraska could find their way into any part of the country for football. Kansas held up the basketball.

Kansas still upholds the conference's basketball, but it looks like the program needs a directional point from which to tether. And, I think that point is in Texas.

I don't see Kansas and Oklahoma going anywhere together, and that's bad. I don't see Kansas and Texas going anywhere together, either, or, at least, I don't see Kansas and Texas going somewhere together as a pod.

I do see Kansas as either a future Big Ten, PAC, or ACC prospect. The question becomes, who else goes with them? It's probably not State if it's Big Ten or PAC...it's not both UT or OU if it's the others.

Kansas is a true national recruiting school for basketball (where they basically compete for the same set of recruits that also look at Kentucky, Duke and UNC). To the extent that they have a directional point for basketball recruiting, it's honestly the Chicago area much more than Texas (which points to being more Big Ten-centric). Much to my chagrin as an Illini guy, KU does a great job getting Chicagoland recruits with Bill Self's ties there (and the national name brand is more than strong enough to outlast Bill Self's tenure). Regardless, regional or home state advantages are mitigated quite greatly in basketball compared to football (and for a school like KU, it's almost entirely irrelevant). For the blue blood hoops programs, they're chasing after the same set of superstar recruits no matter where they might live.

KU has actually been recruiting the northeast and eastern seaboard the most anymore under Self. Under Roy Williams - California, Texas, and the top Midwest guys were KU's targets.
05-12-2017 01:31 PM
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