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Which conference values Kansas most?
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
More important than athletes, where is Kansas recruiting it's out of state students? This may be a much larger factor. All the schools in the plain states, including both Kansas and Oklahoma, face a demographic problem of declining numbers of highly qualified students for college. The writing is on the wall that 2nd tier residential universities are going to struggle. So it is important for KU to establish themselves as high up the food chain as possible. This would see the faculty argue strongly for the B1G or failing that the P12.

KU Basketball will recruit the same top 100 players Nationally for their basketball program they do now. Conference alignment is irrelevant, so long as it's one of the majors. They will be in LA, Houston, Chicago, NYC, Philly, and anywhere else the talent shows up, just like Kentucky, Duke, and North Carolina.

Frankly they will be a dreadful football and top five basketball program regardless of where the move. So were I making the decision I'd be looking at what helps me recruit more high end students to fill my lecture halls (if any). If there is not stink difference in that area, I'd probably lean SEC. But if the B1G looks like it will help my institutional survival as a prestigious campus, then that would override all the SEC athletics revenue in the world.
05-12-2017 01:41 PM
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AntiG Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 12:11 PM)megadrone Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 11:05 AM)goofus Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 10:16 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  Which conference values Kansas most? The Big East.

Kansas hoops coach said Big East was set to invite four Big XII teams had Texas opted out

This would have unquestionably saved the Big East.

Sort of. What probably would have happened officially is the leftover schools in the Big12 would have officially invited all 8 of the Big East football schools to the Big12. In the end, the Big East football conference still goes away and the Big East still turns into a non-football conference.

I don't know. The C7 would have stayed with that configuration. The C7 weren't thrilled with the quality of basketball coming in from C-USA.

I think the real sticking point would have been if that configuration could have received a contract bowl once the BCS went away. The Big East was still an at-large AQ for football without a permanent destination. While the football would still be stronger with Missouri and K-State, I don't know if it would have been strong enough to take the Big 12's Fiesta bowl contract slot.

I don't know if the deal with those 4 would have fallen apart, but I think the basketball strength brought in with Kansas and Iowa State would have kept the C7 (and probably Notre Dame) in the conference.

The knock on the Big East was that if you didn't get West Virginia you didn't get a good traveling team. Coupled with the tendency to send a non-BCS worthy team every 5 to 6 years, it wouldn't have looked good. But if Notre Dame negotiated with this group (Pitt-Syracuse-WVU-Louisville-K State and Mizzou) for bowls, maybe that would have made a difference.

The ironic thing about this scenario is that most likely instead of the Big East breaking apart, you probably would have seen the ACC get crushed.

Lets say the scenario went through - the B12 imploded.

- TCU to Big East

- Nebraska to B1G

- Texas A&M and Mizzou to SEC

- Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado to PAC

- Utah to PAC (due to Texas A&M choosing SEC over PAC invitation)

- Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor left behind

Pac10 goes to 16
Stanford, Cal, UCLA, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, Arizona, Arizona State, Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Colorado, Utah

The Big East and remaining Big 12 members merge forming a 13-team football conference and 21-team basketball conference
Rutgers, Cincinnati, UConn, Syracuse, South Florida, Louisville, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Baylor, TCU
Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, Seton Hall, St. John's, Villanova, DePaul, Notre Dame (non-football)

- West Virginia does not leave the conference, TCU does not rescind their invite, which leads to Temple not being re-invited

- With no more defections and now a far stronger football and basketball conference with the merger and TCU, which then leads to Syracuse, Pittsburgh & ND no longer defecting to the ACC, which is going through their own internal struggles due to FSU and Clemson previously considering leaving for the B12. The Big East divorce no longer happens, and the frankenstein conference stays together having been stabilized. Additionally with the B12 additions, the Big East is now seen has having strengthened their football conference, have the greatest basketball conference in the history of college sports and have a lot more leverage in TV contract negotiations.

- Big Ten invites Rutgers and Maryland, who both accept.

- ACC tries again to invite Syracuse and Pittsburgh who reject them. As does Louisville. They try to stabilize by getting into TV rich areas. FSU, Miami, Va Tech, Georgia Tech and Clemson push for Houston, but the more basketball-focused schools push for Temple. A stalemate.

- Big Ten takes advantage of the turmoil that they created and invites Florida State, North Carolina, Duke and Georgia Tech. FSU and GT accept, UNC and Duke decline. UVA gets invited but also declines.

- SEC sweeps in and offers Clemson and Miami who both accept.

B1G
Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan State, Iowa, Indiana, Purdue, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Illinois, Northwestern, Nebraska, Rutgers, Maryland, Florida State, Georgia Tech

SEC
Kentucky, Florida, Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Alabama, LSU, Auburn, Georgia, Ole Miss, Miss State, South Carolina, Arkansas, Texas A&M, Mizzou, Clemson, Miami

- ACC then goes the same route as the AAC and invites Central Florida, Memphis, Houston, SMU, Temple

ACC
North Carolina, North Carolina State, Duke, Wake Forest, Boston College, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Temple, Houston, Central Florida, Memphis, SMU
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 02:00 PM by AntiG.)
05-12-2017 01:52 PM
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Post: #23
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
The Big 12
05-12-2017 02:47 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 02:47 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  The Big 12

Ironically, that is also the conference that suits UT and OU best.
05-12-2017 02:56 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
The SEC needs another elite basketball school to go along with UK, SC, and FL
05-12-2017 03:00 PM
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ken d Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 03:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  The SEC needs another elite basketball school to go along with UK, SC, and FL

I see what you did there. 04-bow
05-12-2017 03:12 PM
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Carolina_Low_Country Online
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Post: #27
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 03:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  The SEC needs another elite basketball school to go along with UK, SC, and FL

If Arkansas and Missouri get back to their old ways the SEC will be ok in basketball. I think you'll see the SEC start doing better and better in the NCAA tournament as schools like SC, Ole Miss, etc start to put money into basketball
05-12-2017 05:27 PM
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Trevor Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 08:57 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:34 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Pac 12 should offer ku, ksu, ou and ok st to jump to 16. No politics, no problems with those 4 and the get a huge football and basketball brand in the central time zone. Than the focus goes to adding Texas and Texas tech and/or maybe Houston to jump to 18-20

I agree on KU and OU. Both would be nice fits in the PAC12, not sure about the other two. I would prefer to see them pick up Houston and Tech. I really do not see Texas going west and would not be shocked, if the Big12 falls apart to see them take the Notre Dame route.

As for the OP, I think the PAC12 values Kansas most. They would be a great fit.

Just a small note here: It’s possible that any BIG 12 realignment with some PAC12 members or at least California State Schools may be already set in stone. Didn’t Cal, back in February, shutdown basketball series talks with KU because of anti-discrimination laws in Kansas. It seems “Kansas has a "religious freedom" law that allows student groups to be discriminatory in their membership practices based on those groups' beliefs, the World-Journal reported.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...s-lgbt-law
05-12-2017 06:37 PM
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Gamecock Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 05:27 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 03:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  The SEC needs another elite basketball school to go along with UK, SC, and FL

If Arkansas and Missouri get back to their old ways the SEC will be ok in basketball. I think you'll see the SEC start doing better and better in the NCAA tournament as schools like SC, Ole Miss, etc start to put money into basketball

I'm not sure about Ole Miss because I think Kennedy is somewhat of a fraud. But I agree with Missouri and Arkansas being on the come up.
05-13-2017 08:01 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Sun Belt
05-13-2017 03:02 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 05:27 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 03:00 PM)Gamecock Wrote:  The SEC needs another elite basketball school to go along with UK, SC, and FL

If Arkansas and Missouri get back to their old ways the SEC will be ok in basketball. I think you'll see the SEC start doing better and better in the NCAA tournament as schools like SC, Ole Miss, etc start to put money into basketball

Missouri? They've had some good seasons, but they're not historically a powerhouse.

In the last 20 years, they've finished the season ranked 3 times.

0 Final Fours, 7 Sweet 16s, 42nd on all-time wins list
05-14-2017 06:09 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 06:37 PM)Trevor Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:57 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:34 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Pac 12 should offer ku, ksu, ou and ok st to jump to 16. No politics, no problems with those 4 and the get a huge football and basketball brand in the central time zone. Than the focus goes to adding Texas and Texas tech and/or maybe Houston to jump to 18-20

I agree on KU and OU. Both would be nice fits in the PAC12, not sure about the other two. I would prefer to see them pick up Houston and Tech. I really do not see Texas going west and would not be shocked, if the Big12 falls apart to see them take the Notre Dame route.

As for the OP, I think the PAC12 values Kansas most. They would be a great fit.

Just a small note here: It’s possible that any BIG 12 realignment with some PAC12 members or at least California State Schools may be already set in stone. Didn’t Cal, back in February, shutdown basketball series talks with KU because of anti-discrimination laws in Kansas. It seems “Kansas has a "religious freedom" law that allows student groups to be discriminatory in their membership practices based on those groups' beliefs, the World-Journal reported.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketb...s-lgbt-law

It's not anti-discrimination laws, it's so-called "bathroom bill" laws. There's been a couple of threads here about this issue.

To summarize, any "pre-existing contracts" between schools will not be affected by California's new laws. So postseason tournaments currently scheduled games will not be affected. However, California public schools are not allowed to enter into any new contracts where they play in any state that has such laws.

Right now, Kansas is on the list of prohibited states (along with North Carolina, Mississippi, and Tennessee). But the way the CA law was written, it automatically will extend to any other state that passes such a law. As of today, 11 states are currently considering adding such laws. Some of them (like New York) won't pass, but others stand a good shot (like Texas, where a "bathroom bill" has already passed the Texas state Senate).
05-14-2017 06:22 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
On the OP, Kansas seems like a #16 for the Big Ten, if there is a compelling #15.

If there is a P5 that would look on Kansas as the compelling add to make their move, plus another school to even up the numbers, that P5 conference would value Kansas more than the Big Ten.
05-15-2017 06:04 AM
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goodknightfl Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
The American,
P4 don't need em, and they would be a great bookend to WS
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2017 04:42 PM by goodknightfl.)
05-15-2017 04:41 PM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 11:00 AM)goofus Wrote:  Some very good points. Adding Kansas and a 5th AAU school would be a boost for the SEC's academic reputation.

But not so much for the Big Ten. Kansas may be in the AAU but most academic rankings put it closer to Nebraska and Oklahoma than to Rutgers and MD. Kansas would be the 2nd lowest academic rated school in the BigTen if it were added, just barely ahead of Nebraska. The academic elites in the BigTen are not excited about Kansas.

What a load of sh!t. B1G was so concerned about academics that they decided that Nebraska was the right call because it checked ALL the boxes....Too bad that it was well known that Nebraska was more than likely losing that AAU status. Hell, at least 2 B1G schools voted them out of the AAU. Kansas gets invited to another P5 conference only if the hypothetical conference can expect to make more money in any combination of TV contract renewals, access to new or better paying bowls and improved BB/FB cache to help drive ratings (for advertising/marketing of the schools). Everything else is just "nice to have", but far from critical.
05-15-2017 10:16 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-15-2017 10:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 11:00 AM)goofus Wrote:  Some very good points. Adding Kansas and a 5th AAU school would be a boost for the SEC's academic reputation.

But not so much for the Big Ten. Kansas may be in the AAU but most academic rankings put it closer to Nebraska and Oklahoma than to Rutgers and MD. Kansas would be the 2nd lowest academic rated school in the BigTen if it were added, just barely ahead of Nebraska. The academic elites in the BigTen are not excited about Kansas.

What a load of sh!t. B1G was so concerned about academics that they decided that Nebraska was the right call because it checked ALL the boxes....Too bad that it was well known that Nebraska was more than likely losing that AAU status. Hell, at least 2 B1G schools voted them out of the AAU. Kansas gets invited to another P5 conference only if the hypothetical conference can expect to make more money in any combination of TV contract renewals, access to new or better paying bowls and improved BB/FB cache to help drive ratings (for advertising/marketing of the schools). Everything else is just "nice to have", but far from critical.

I agree with you partially here. To be sure, the Big Ten definitely has a minimum academic threshold. It's essentially a black/white line where a school either passes that academic threshold or it doesn't. If a school *does* pass that academic threshold, then the analysis goes solely to whether that school makes enough money for the league. Academic standing is effectively the first elimination round for Big Ten expansion. For instance, Rice would meet the academic threshold, but if Kansas also meets that academic threshold (which I believe it does), the fact that Rice is a much higher ranked academic school is completely irrelevant as compared to Kansas. Rice and Kansas are both academically acceptable in the Big Ten's eyes, which means that the only relevant analysis after that acceptability is determined is whether Kansas will make more athletic money for the Big Ten than Rice (or vice versa).
05-16-2017 10:19 AM
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miko33 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-16-2017 10:19 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-15-2017 10:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 11:00 AM)goofus Wrote:  Some very good points. Adding Kansas and a 5th AAU school would be a boost for the SEC's academic reputation.

But not so much for the Big Ten. Kansas may be in the AAU but most academic rankings put it closer to Nebraska and Oklahoma than to Rutgers and MD. Kansas would be the 2nd lowest academic rated school in the BigTen if it were added, just barely ahead of Nebraska. The academic elites in the BigTen are not excited about Kansas.

What a load of sh!t. B1G was so concerned about academics that they decided that Nebraska was the right call because it checked ALL the boxes....Too bad that it was well known that Nebraska was more than likely losing that AAU status. Hell, at least 2 B1G schools voted them out of the AAU. Kansas gets invited to another P5 conference only if the hypothetical conference can expect to make more money in any combination of TV contract renewals, access to new or better paying bowls and improved BB/FB cache to help drive ratings (for advertising/marketing of the schools). Everything else is just "nice to have", but far from critical.

I agree with you partially here. To be sure, the Big Ten definitely has a minimum academic threshold. It's essentially a black/white line where a school either passes that academic threshold or it doesn't. If a school *does* pass that academic threshold, then the analysis goes solely to whether that school makes enough money for the league. Academic standing is effectively the first elimination round for Big Ten expansion. For instance, Rice would meet the academic threshold, but if Kansas also meets that academic threshold (which I believe it does), the fact that Rice is a much higher ranked academic school is completely irrelevant as compared to Kansas. Rice and Kansas are both academically acceptable in the Big Ten's eyes, which means that the only relevant analysis after that acceptability is determined is whether Kansas will make more athletic money for the Big Ten than Rice (or vice versa).

I'm sure there is some type of circuit breaker, but it's not AAU status. That went out the window with Nebraska. I think that academic threshold is not nearly as high as everyone was led to believe.
05-16-2017 02:47 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
Carnegie R1, top 8% of R&D schools, and a flagship.

AAU is actually less precises. Oregon is in and Utah is out. But the metrics say both are errors
05-16-2017 07:57 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
There is always the possibility of KU becoming a better football program if placed in a functional conference. KU had some pretty good years mixed in with the bad. Their recruiting would almost certainly improve.
05-17-2017 12:18 AM
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Post: #40
RE: Which conference values Kansas most?
(05-12-2017 12:09 AM)StinkyDuck Wrote:  I think the SEC, PAC12, or Big 10 would take Kansas if their is another round of realignment. But which one sees more value by adding them?

Kansas is AAU so on the academic side they would be coveted.

I think we can all agree that they add nothing to the football side. Since the SEC is typically the better football conference year in year out I would think they see more value just in the sense that for the most part it's a win for the other programs.

On the basketball side I think the PAC12 and Big 10 value them more. This would add more must see match ups that the networks would love to have. (Kansas-UCLA, Kansas Michigan St., etc....). The SEC's basketball isn't that great overall so they could use a program like Kansas but all that would be worth watching most years would be Kentucky-Kansas. Then again, the SEC could see that alone as valuable as it would raise the perception of their basketball programs.

So, which conference do you think values Kansas the most and why?

SEC especially if Oklahoma comes along. Oklahoma also has a great upside in Basketball as well as Football.
05-17-2017 12:14 PM
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