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Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
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NoDak Offline
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Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Dayton is spending $72 mill on remodeling the UD arena. It seems needed even to keep the NCAA first round games, but will it put UD over the top for a Big East bid?

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05-11-2017 07:39 PM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.
05-11-2017 07:45 PM
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hoops22 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Good video. Hope they get the invite one day.
05-11-2017 08:48 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
looks like it will be really nice
05-11-2017 08:55 PM
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_C2_ Online
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Yeah, because Creighton or even Xavier a few miles away is a hop skip and jump from NYC.
05-11-2017 09:20 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-11-2017 09:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Yeah, because Creighton or even Xavier a few miles away is a hop skip and jump from NYC.

I think he was speaking from the perspective that Dayton isn't exactly a bustling market of opportunity. It's not like Omaha or Providence are either, but PC is a longtime member while Creighton was in the right place at the right time.

I wouldn't think of it as a pre-req though, more like the price of admission if they do get an invite. And the chances of that happening will be a little bit higher with these renovations, although having another team around as a logical addition to the Big East to put the league at an even dozen wouldn't hurt.
05-11-2017 10:32 PM
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johnintx Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

I think Frank is right on the location. Dayton is in market #64, and also within shouting distance of Cincinnati and Columbus. Also, isn't Xavier now blocking Dayton's entry to the Big East?

I love it when similar schools group themselves into the same conference. Birds of a feather flock together. I remember being disappointed when the new Big East invited Butler. Butler has a very good program, and is in the footprint, but isn't a Catholic school. At the time, they had recently been to two consecutive NCAA national championship games in men's basketball. I just hated to see the BE break up the Catholic consistency.

Dayton fits right in, both instiutionally and geographically. They also have a traditionally strong and well-supported program. Location works against them.
05-11-2017 11:12 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-11-2017 09:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Yeah, because Creighton or even Xavier a few miles away is a hop skip and jump from NYC.

It's more of the fact that it's Dayton is so close to Cincinnati. Don't need two schools in the Queen City.
05-12-2017 12:01 AM
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_C2_ Online
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-11-2017 10:32 PM)Love and Honor Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 09:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Yeah, because Creighton or even Xavier a few miles away is a hop skip and jump from NYC.

I think he was speaking from the perspective that Dayton isn't exactly a bustling market of opportunity. It's not like Omaha or Providence are either, but PC is a longtime member while Creighton was in the right place at the right time.

I wouldn't think of it as a pre-req though, more like the price of admission if they do get an invite. And the chances of that happening will be a little bit higher with these renovations, although having another team around as a logical addition to the Big East to put the league at an even dozen wouldn't hurt.

Right place in the right time? Creighton drew NBA sized crowds over the years. Dayton's main knock is that they are in a would-be duplicated market.
05-12-2017 04:37 AM
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Carolina_Low_Country Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
It's to prepare for their move to the American
05-12-2017 07:04 AM
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TheBasketBallOpinion Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.
05-12-2017 07:53 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 12:01 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 09:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Yeah, because Creighton or even Xavier a few miles away is a hop skip and jump from NYC.

It's more of the fact that it's Dayton is so close to Cincinnati. Don't need two schools in the Queen City.

Yes, this is the biggest (if not only) issue. If Dayton was located in St. Louis, Pittsburgh, or even Cleveland, they would already be in the Big East today. Dayton has had all of the fan support and on-the-court success that you can reasonably ask for a program to garner a move up, but the Big East hasn't budged. It's entirely about their location, which is the one thing that they can't change.
05-12-2017 07:58 AM
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Frank the Tank Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 07:53 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.

Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.
05-12-2017 08:01 AM
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CliftonAve Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 08:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 07:53 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.

Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.

The crazy thing is Dayton (UC for that matter) has a bigger fan base than XU. The Flyers average about 2K more a home game and travels like a blue blood basketball school.
05-12-2017 08:10 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 08:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 07:53 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.

Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.

Not exactly. Dayton overlaps into Xavier's Cincinnati market. But Xavier has no pull in Dayton. Saying that they overlap is another way of saying that Dayton has a huge following.

Part of it is because Dayton is a much bigger school than Xavier, but it's also because they're historically more successful.
05-12-2017 10:22 AM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 08:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 07:53 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.

Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.

The crazy thing is Dayton (UC for that matter) has a bigger fan base than XU. The Flyers average about 2K more a home game and travels like a blue blood basketball school.

No, Dayton doesn't travel like UNC, KU or UK.
05-12-2017 10:28 AM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 07:53 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  
(05-11-2017 07:45 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Unfortunately, the biggest thing that Dayton can do to get a Big East bid is something that they can't control, which is to be located somewhere other than Dayton, Ohio.

Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.

Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.

The crazy thing is Dayton (UC for that matter) has a bigger fan base than XU. The Flyers average about 2K more a home game and travels like a blue blood basketball school.

No, Dayton doesn't travel like UNC, KU or UK.

True. But they do travel as well as UCLA or UConn.
05-12-2017 10:48 AM
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MU88 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Who wants Dayton in the Big East? Add zero revenue. No media market. Screws up the home-home 18 game conference schedule. While X is a natural rival, the fans of other two BE schools with any kind of history with Dayton, Marquette and DePaul, do not care one bit if they ever played Dayton again. Why would the BE invite them? Dayton is just another mouth to feed.
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 01:30 PM by MU88.)
05-12-2017 01:30 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Dayton is one of the top (if not the top) expansion candidate(s) for the Big East. They are a like-minded institution (Catholic) with an athletic program driven and geared towards successful men's basketball. They have one of the top and most loyal fan bases in the country. Not only would they bring fans to all of their away conference games, they also would sell out almost all of their home games in a huge arena (13k). If Dayton and Xavier were in competition for the same fans, it would be a genuine concern - but they don't. Both programs have strong individual fan bases, and do not pick one another off. Thanks to Archie Miller, they have elevated their program to the top of the A-10, and would relish the opportunity to be in the top non-FBS conference in the country.

Adding Dayton may, or may not, cause the removal of the round-robin, but there will be a point in time where the round-robin is no longer valuable to the growth of the conference. The Big East should aim to get as many tournament bids every year, and adding successful, quality basketball programs can only strengthen that cause.

I truly feel that once Travis Ford and SLU right their ship, UD and SLU come aboard for a 12-team Big East. It would add more content for Fox and the Big East, not to mention adding two natural fits that could blossom even more under the Big East banner.
05-12-2017 02:06 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Can't help but think there's a sleeper down there in Davidson. It's just a shame their arena isn't BE-like. Same goes for Richmond.

The A10 will continue to enjoy success where it is while someone like the Big East over-thinks basketball operations and finds value in a "legacy program" that needed to buy a big coach to make them relevant again...then couldn't sustain it after he left the program. But, let the Big East figure that out about SLU. That they don't want to keep up big spending there to remain a visible, relevant program. That they think a few years of adequacy should keep them close, then get somewhere and rot on the vine/under-perform. They should know that by now with DePaul, but, this is the same conference that keeps asking Boston College to come back, too...and they may be the P5's biggest mooch.

What Dayton will get out of this is the kind of venue that will keep the NCAA Tournament there for years to come. If they didn't do this, who knows. Like, for example, what happened out in Boise for them to lose games there?
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 03:12 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-12-2017 03:09 PM
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