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Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
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Hokie4Skins Online
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Can't help but think there's a sleeper down there in Davidson. It's just a shame their arena isn't BE-like. Same goes for Richmond.

The A10 will continue to enjoy success where it is while someone like the Big East over-thinks basketball operations and finds value in a "legacy program" that needed to buy a big coach to make them relevant again...then couldn't sustain it after he left the program. But, let the Big East figure that out about SLU. That they don't want to keep up big spending there to remain a visible, relevant program. That they think a few years of adequacy should keep them close, then get somewhere and rot on the vine/under-perform. They should know that by now with DePaul, but, this is the same conference that keeps asking Boston College to come back, too...and they may be the P5's biggest mooch.

Umm...what?
05-12-2017 03:11 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 03:11 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Can't help but think there's a sleeper down there in Davidson. It's just a shame their arena isn't BE-like. Same goes for Richmond.

The A10 will continue to enjoy success where it is while someone like the Big East over-thinks basketball operations and finds value in a "legacy program" that needed to buy a big coach to make them relevant again...then couldn't sustain it after he left the program. But, let the Big East figure that out about SLU. That they don't want to keep up big spending there to remain a visible, relevant program. That they think a few years of adequacy should keep them close, then get somewhere and rot on the vine/under-perform. They should know that by now with DePaul, but, this is the same conference that keeps asking Boston College to come back, too...and they may be the P5's biggest mooch.

Umm...what?

That the Big East has kept BC on speed dial when it has wanted to expand almost as much as it would with Penn State, Army, and Navy...and that when the C7 split, it approached BC?

Didn't know that was news...
(This post was last modified: 05-12-2017 03:20 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
05-12-2017 03:19 PM
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Hokie4Skins Online
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
I hadn't heard that the C7 gauged BC's interest.
05-12-2017 03:30 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Villanova steadfastly blocked Temple basketball from the Old Big East. Crosstown in Philly of course is different from Cincinnati/Dayton but the two metros are soon to merge as the cities grow toward one another much as Dallas and Fort Worth did. So that raises the question: would X want UD in the same conference in the same market area? I say no.
05-12-2017 03:51 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
The new conference media contract model is no longer going to be built on market size, it's about the popularity of individual programs. The Big East will eventually see this and go to 12, With Dayton being part of the deal.

I know a lot of people hold the double round robin schedule as sacred but with 12 teams and 18 games you only miss 4 teams a second time--bump that up to 20 games and that number gets cut to 2.
05-12-2017 04:03 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 03:19 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 03:11 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Can't help but think there's a sleeper down there in Davidson. It's just a shame their arena isn't BE-like. Same goes for Richmond.

The A10 will continue to enjoy success where it is while someone like the Big East over-thinks basketball operations and finds value in a "legacy program" that needed to buy a big coach to make them relevant again...then couldn't sustain it after he left the program. But, let the Big East figure that out about SLU. That they don't want to keep up big spending there to remain a visible, relevant program. That they think a few years of adequacy should keep them close, then get somewhere and rot on the vine/under-perform. They should know that by now with DePaul, but, this is the same conference that keeps asking Boston College to come back, too...and they may be the P5's biggest mooch.

Umm...what?

That the Big East has kept BC on speed dial when it has wanted to expand almost as much as it would with Penn State, Army, and Navy...and that when the C7 split, it approached BC?

Didn't know that was news...

what are you talking about? The FB schools without Syracuse, pitt, rutgers, Louisville and non fb ND approached BC to come back to a conference without the c7? I don't think so. if you have a link please provide I would like to read about it
05-12-2017 08:31 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 03:51 PM)OKIcat Wrote:  Villanova steadfastly blocked Temple basketball from the Old Big East. Crosstown in Philly of course is different from Cincinnati/Dayton but the two metros are soon to merge as the cities grow toward one another much as Dallas and Fort Worth did. So that raises the question: would X want UD in the same conference in the same market area? I say no.

If a Dayton inclusion into the Big East were to increase the amount of $$$ and exposure that Xavier were to receive, I don't think they'd have a problem with it. They have shared a conference with Dayton for nearly 15 years, including playing each other 158 times since 1920. Adding Dayton (and Saint Louis - once they have rebuilt the program under Ford) would add more content for the Big East to broadcast, in addition a program that consistently gets 13k at its home games and one of the strongest fan bases in the nation (not to mention a valuable TV market in Saint Louis).
05-13-2017 08:54 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 08:31 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  what are you talking about? The FB schools without Syracuse, pitt, rutgers, Louisville and non fb ND approached BC to come back to a conference without the c7? I don't think so. if you have a link please provide I would like to read about it

No, not the AAC from anything I've read.

There were a couple of items that popped up in late 2013 or 2014, iirc, about Big East doings before the peel-offs. BC was in a list that included Penn State, Army, and Navy approached around the time TCU was (I think before them, actually).

We might have forgotten, but while even Pittsburgh and Syracuse would announce their departures not long after TCU took the offer, that whole Big XII collapse thing happened after those announced splits, with the PAC-16 and Big Ten grab all up in the air, and "Meatball" publicly told all of the Big XII schools they had a home in the Big East. West Virginia's AD would additionally add that a bunch of the B12 schools were ready to do that; I think Kansas State's AD saying they were all waiting for the cue from the others to collectively call the Big East offices.

Seems so long ago, such chaos.

The C7 thing isn't as old, but, apparently, BC got a buzz again during the early stages of the split. I've read it as due diligence; that BC was asked just in case they would say yes; the C7 wanted to resume their relationship. I think certain ADs who spoke on the matter further added about candidates needing all the approval, and BC checking all of the boxes from everyone, and stuff like that. More than anything, it was just that the new conference still wasn't over BC leaving, like it could have gotten them back...rather odd.
05-15-2017 03:09 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-15-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:31 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  what are you talking about? The FB schools without Syracuse, pitt, rutgers, Louisville and non fb ND approached BC to come back to a conference without the c7? I don't think so. if you have a link please provide I would like to read about it

No, not the AAC from anything I've read.

There were a couple of items that popped up in late 2013 or 2014, iirc, about Big East doings before the peel-offs. BC was in a list that included Penn State, Army, and Navy approached around the time TCU was (I think before them, actually).

We might have forgotten, but while even Pittsburgh and Syracuse would announce their departures not long after TCU took the offer, that whole Big XII collapse thing happened after those announced splits, with the PAC-16 and Big Ten grab all up in the air, and "Meatball" publicly told all of the Big XII schools they had a home in the Big East. West Virginia's AD would additionally add that a bunch of the B12 schools were ready to do that; I think Kansas State's AD saying they were all waiting for the cue from the others to collectively call the Big East offices.

Seems so long ago, such chaos.

The C7 thing isn't as old, but, apparently, BC got a buzz again during the early stages of the split. I've read it as due diligence; that BC was asked just in case they would say yes; the C7 wanted to resume their relationship. I think certain ADs who spoke on the matter further added about candidates needing all the approval, and BC checking all of the boxes from everyone, and stuff like that. More than anything, it was just that the new conference still wasn't over BC leaving, like it could have gotten them back...rather odd.

Link?
05-15-2017 03:31 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 10:48 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 07:53 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Same thing with Gonzaga...both are great programs that suffer from their location.

Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.

The crazy thing is Dayton (UC for that matter) has a bigger fan base than XU. The Flyers average about 2K more a home game and travels like a blue blood basketball school.

No, Dayton doesn't travel like UNC, KU or UK.

True. But they do travel as well as UCLA or UConn.

Better than UCLA. They get the benifit of locals putting on t-shirts for tv. That's not a traveling fan, that's a t-shirt fan. An example: Iowa fans travel. Miami fans don't. But people used to love wearing those Miami t-shirts....
05-15-2017 04:19 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-15-2017 04:19 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 10:48 AM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 10:28 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:10 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 08:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Correct, albeit for different reasons. Dayton overlaps with Xavier's market. (I know that Dayton has a separate TV market, but they are so close geographically that they're looked at as an overlap in practicality.) Gonzaga is at the opposite end of the spectrum where they're so incredibly far outside of the geographic footprint of the Big East that it's not really reasonable outside of message board land.

The crazy thing is Dayton (UC for that matter) has a bigger fan base than XU. The Flyers average about 2K more a home game and travels like a blue blood basketball school.

No, Dayton doesn't travel like UNC, KU or UK.

True. But they do travel as well as UCLA or UConn.

Better than UCLA. They get the benifit of locals putting on t-shirts for tv. That's not a traveling fan, that's a t-shirt fan. An example: Iowa fans travel. Miami fans don't. But people used to love wearing those Miami t-shirts....
Can't speak for travelling but Dayton averaged 13K for home games and UCLA 8K, and Pauley can hold about 13K. And Iowa's attendance is 2X what Miami gets.
05-15-2017 04:36 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 02:06 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Dayton is one of the top (if not the top) expansion candidate(s) for the Big East. They are a like-minded institution (Catholic) with an athletic program driven and geared towards successful men's basketball. They have one of the top and most loyal fan bases in the country. Not only would they bring fans to all of their away conference games, they also would sell out almost all of their home games in a huge arena (13k). If Dayton and Xavier were in competition for the same fans, it would be a genuine concern - but they don't. Both programs have strong individual fan bases, and do not pick one another off. Thanks to Archie Miller, they have elevated their program to the top of the A-10, and would relish the opportunity to be in the top non-FBS conference in the country.

Adding Dayton may, or may not, cause the removal of the round-robin, but there will be a point in time where the round-robin is no longer valuable to the growth of the conference. The Big East should aim to get as many tournament bids every year, and adding successful, quality basketball programs can only strengthen that cause.

I truly feel that once Travis Ford and SLU right their ship, UD and SLU come aboard for a 12-team Big East. It would add more content for Fox and the Big East, not to mention adding two natural fits that could blossom even more under the Big East banner.

Yuck. No desire to reform the MCC.
05-15-2017 05:52 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-15-2017 05:52 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 02:06 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Dayton is one of the top (if not the top) expansion candidate(s) for the Big East. They are a like-minded institution (Catholic) with an athletic program driven and geared towards successful men's basketball. They have one of the top and most loyal fan bases in the country. Not only would they bring fans to all of their away conference games, they also would sell out almost all of their home games in a huge arena (13k). If Dayton and Xavier were in competition for the same fans, it would be a genuine concern - but they don't. Both programs have strong individual fan bases, and do not pick one another off. Thanks to Archie Miller, they have elevated their program to the top of the A-10, and would relish the opportunity to be in the top non-FBS conference in the country.

Adding Dayton may, or may not, cause the removal of the round-robin, but there will be a point in time where the round-robin is no longer valuable to the growth of the conference. The Big East should aim to get as many tournament bids every year, and adding successful, quality basketball programs can only strengthen that cause.

I truly feel that once Travis Ford and SLU right their ship, UD and SLU come aboard for a 12-team Big East. It would add more content for Fox and the Big East, not to mention adding two natural fits that could blossom even more under the Big East banner.

Yuck. No desire to reform the MCC.

Well, if Dayton continues to get into the tournament under Grant, the decision will be easy to make. As of now, only DePaul has been unable to make it into the NCAA tournament (and they appear to be turning things around with recent recruiting developments). If Dayton continues its strong basketball performance over the next few years, there is little doubt that they aren't getting invited.

SLU hit rock bottom towards the end of Crews' tenure, but he was an awful recruiter. Ford already has improved recruiting at SLU and will be noticeably better next year. If they hit a stride (like they did with Majerus), they will likely come along as well.

The institutional-fit, athletic programs and commitment to men's basketball align perfectly with what the Big East is now today. They would strengthen the middle of the league, possibly even elevate the number of total bids we receive. It would also add more content for the conference, as well push us even farther ahead as the top non-FBS conference in the country.
05-16-2017 09:45 AM
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bostonspider Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-12-2017 03:09 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  Can't help but think there's a sleeper down there in Davidson. It's just a shame their arena isn't BE-like. Same goes for Richmond.

Richmond has many faults (an underachieving program (NCAA wise), a small student body, maybe too strong academics which leads to recruiting issues), but their arena is not one of them..

[Image: 1041B-614-AB_Robins.jpg]

[Image: 1041C-614-AB_Robins.jpg]

[Image: 1041A-614-AB_Robins.jpg]
05-16-2017 04:56 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Rumor was that, while Richmond was one of many candidates to join the C7 in 2013, Georgetown was adamantly opposed to them.

If Richmond has VCU's resume, Dayton and Richmond would already be in, IMO.
05-16-2017 06:39 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Richmond to the Big East? They were just playing in the CAA not that long ago and other than yet another Cinderella run to the Sweet 16, they've done little since going to the A-10.
05-16-2017 08:48 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
I would say that prior to Syracuse, BC's departure probably stung the most. other schools had more successful BB programs but there was more to it.
05-16-2017 09:31 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
(05-16-2017 09:45 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  
(05-15-2017 05:52 PM)MU88 Wrote:  
(05-12-2017 02:06 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Dayton is one of the top (if not the top) expansion candidate(s) for the Big East. They are a like-minded institution (Catholic) with an athletic program driven and geared towards successful men's basketball. They have one of the top and most loyal fan bases in the country. Not only would they bring fans to all of their away conference games, they also would sell out almost all of their home games in a huge arena (13k). If Dayton and Xavier were in competition for the same fans, it would be a genuine concern - but they don't. Both programs have strong individual fan bases, and do not pick one another off. Thanks to Archie Miller, they have elevated their program to the top of the A-10, and would relish the opportunity to be in the top non-FBS conference in the country.

Adding Dayton may, or may not, cause the removal of the round-robin, but there will be a point in time where the round-robin is no longer valuable to the growth of the conference. The Big East should aim to get as many tournament bids every year, and adding successful, quality basketball programs can only strengthen that cause.

I truly feel that once Travis Ford and SLU right their ship, UD and SLU come aboard for a 12-team Big East. It would add more content for Fox and the Big East, not to mention adding two natural fits that could blossom even more under the Big East banner.

Yuck. No desire to reform the MCC.

Well, if Dayton continues to get into the tournament under Grant, the decision will be easy to make. As of now, only DePaul has been unable to make it into the NCAA tournament (and they appear to be turning things around with recent recruiting developments). If Dayton continues its strong basketball performance over the next few years, there is little doubt that they aren't getting invited.

SLU hit rock bottom towards the end of Crews' tenure, but he was an awful recruiter. Ford already has improved recruiting at SLU and will be noticeably better next year. If they hit a stride (like they did with Majerus), they will likely come along as well.

The institutional-fit, athletic programs and commitment to men's basketball align perfectly with what the Big East is now today. They would strengthen the middle of the league, possibly even elevate the number of total bids we receive. It would also add more content for the conference, as well push us even farther ahead as the top non-FBS conference in the country.

I have not done research on this but I'm having a hard time believing this is an accurate statement.

Are you claiming to be the most profitable non-fbs conference? Because claiming to be the best non-fbs conference makes it seem like you guys are winning national championships in Olympic sports left and right.
05-16-2017 09:54 PM
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Post: #39
RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
Dayton to the AAC actually wouldn't be too bad. It's a decent school in a good market with good basketball. Furthermore, it's right in the AAC footprint and would easily be able to form new rivalries. I suppose that Cincy would hold the veto on this move, however...
05-16-2017 10:04 PM
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RE: Is a remodeled Dayton Arena a prerequisite for a Big East bid
I think Cincinnati would have more to gain than lose if they were in the same basketball conference as Dayton. They could use a natural conference rival now that Louisville is gone. I think the games could generate some local interest, especially in Dayton. Cincinnati has a lot of alumni in the Miami Valley, and adding to their presence there could also increase the casual fan base. Unlike the the old Big East days, adding a tougher game to the conference schedule would benefit Cincinnati. I don't think UC basketball has much presence in Dayton, so they wouldn't be losing anything by Dayton potentially getting stronger.
05-16-2017 10:32 PM
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