(05-13-2017 05:53 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 10:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  A new twist on my concept, make these games permanent ties.

Holiday (MWC Champ vs. PAC #5)
Sun (CUSA Champ vs. B12 #4)
Liberty (SBC Champ vs. SEC #6)
Gator (AAC Champ vs. ACC #6)

A regional G5 champ for each bowl game vs. P5 upper half pick to ensure that if that P5 sends 3 schools to the CFP that the P5 side of the tie-in would have enough eligible teams to send.

The MAC as the conference that doesn't travel would either put its champ into a CFP bowl OR replace one of the G5 tie-ins (Gator or Holiday most years).

Put some higher payouts to these (2-3 million) from a TV contract and prime time slots to make them attractive.

From a viewing perspective, you replace a half interested P5 fan base of one school with super interested G5 conference fans since this would be the marquee bowl for the conference.

Can't see the Gator Bowl ever signing the AAC. The Gator has history trying to lose the Old Big East contract because of poor attendance in the BE days. It would be shocking to see them reverse course and agree to take on the AAC, which was the football playing remnant of the Old BE, now.

I have a hard time seeing any bowl with a P5 vs P5 contract dropping a P5 tie and replacing it with an AAC tie--even if it's for the champ. That would be a singularly rare occurrence should it ever come to pass.

(05-12-2017 08:00 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 07:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 06:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 01:58 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 01:57 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/spor...story.html

I did not realize the contract was up with ESPN. One thing I love to see is Fox or CBS pick this up. I would love to see bowl the bowls spread out on other networks and compete against each other. The weekday Pre and Post Christmas afternoon games, I would love to be later in the day or night.

Then again, this may be part of by gone era.

CBS needs some more bowl games, not sure why they would not pick this one up as well and put on a Saturday 3:30 time slot

Then if CBS rebuilds its bowl portfolio it could then form the basis for a "bowl series" for G5 champions.

Well--the ratings numbers are there to support a higher value bowl game for those G5 champs---but Ive seen nothing to indicate any network is interested in putting up the money to make it happen.

It's a question of leadership within the G5 to propose something.

The P5 I know wants to propose new games that will push existing ones further down the totem poll. Could the G5 try to do pry a few loose from the P5 where their future P5 arrangement is shaky?

Then approach the P5 with a deal for it's lower picks to help drive up games. It could be something like 6th-7th picks from the P5 vs. G5 champs and BYU with a slot in it. But be played in traditional bowls; Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator that have name value to them.

Put them on CBS Christmas week opposite ESPN programming.

This appears to me to be a self-destructive strategy. What the G5 would be collectively saying is "our conference champions are peers of P5 mid-level teams". That sounds to me like an acknowledgement that they don't deserve their automatic bid to the NY6 bowl structure. Is that really the trade-off you want to make? To give up the exposure of an access bowl for a few low level prelims?

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 05:53 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 10:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  A new twist on my concept, make these games permanent ties.

Holiday (MWC Champ vs. PAC #5)
Sun (CUSA Champ vs. B12 #4)
Liberty (SBC Champ vs. SEC #6)
Gator (AAC Champ vs. ACC #6)

A regional G5 champ for each bowl game vs. P5 upper half pick to ensure that if that P5 sends 3 schools to the CFP that the P5 side of the tie-in would have enough eligible teams to send.

The MAC as the conference that doesn't travel would either put its champ into a CFP bowl OR replace one of the G5 tie-ins (Gator or Holiday most years).

Put some higher payouts to these (2-3 million) from a TV contract and prime time slots to make them attractive.

From a viewing perspective, you replace a half interested P5 fan base of one school with super interested G5 conference fans since this would be the marquee bowl for the conference.

Can't see the Gator Bowl ever signing the AAC. The Gator has history trying to lose the Old Big East contract because of poor attendance in the BE days. It would be shocking to see them reverse course and agree to take on the AAC, which was the football playing remnant of the Old BE, now.

I have a hard time seeing any bowl with a P5 vs P5 contract dropping a P5 tie and replacing it with an AAC tie--even if it's for the champ. That would be a singularly rare occurrence should it ever come to pass.

MWC with Las Vegas, CUSA with Liberty had something similar to what I'm describing but the arrangement eroded over the bowl cycles.

The rational this time would be to drive more national interest in this game games with a G5 conference champ in them. One network behind these games and attractive time slots.

The G5 championship race is different because than the non-AQ race. If an only if the non-AQ had a "buster" were they in play for a BCS bowl. The G5 has a CFP slot so its an annual race between the 5 conferences for the slot. The conference championship games of each G5 conference are relevant because the highest ranked G5 team can lose the CC and thus send another conference representative to the bowl.

This is why I think it could be different this time as the G5 race would be driving it. The bowl games would be talked about as destinations for those conferences throughout the year when talking about the G5 race.

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:00 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 07:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 06:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-11-2017 01:58 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  CBS needs some more bowl games, not sure why they would not pick this one up as well and put on a Saturday 3:30 time slot

Then if CBS rebuilds its bowl portfolio it could then form the basis for a "bowl series" for G5 champions.

Well--the ratings numbers are there to support a higher value bowl game for those G5 champs---but Ive seen nothing to indicate any network is interested in putting up the money to make it happen.

It's a question of leadership within the G5 to propose something.

The P5 I know wants to propose new games that will push existing ones further down the totem poll. Could the G5 try to do pry a few loose from the P5 where their future P5 arrangement is shaky?

Then approach the P5 with a deal for it's lower picks to help drive up games. It could be something like 6th-7th picks from the P5 vs. G5 champs and BYU with a slot in it. But be played in traditional bowls; Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator that have name value to them.

Put them on CBS Christmas week opposite ESPN programming.

This appears to me to be a self-destructive strategy. What the G5 would be collectively saying is "our conference champions are peers of P5 mid-level teams". That sounds to me like an acknowledgement that they don't deserve their automatic bid to the NY6 bowl structure. Is that really the trade-off you want to make? To give up the exposure of an access bowl for a few low level prelims?

Its that way now...perhaps even worse. G5 champs play the lowest end of the P5 bowl qualifiers or (more often) mid-tier non-champion G5's. The G5 doesn't even regularly engage in G5 champ vs G5 champ bowl games. So, per your logic, the G5 is effectively already devaluing their champions---even among their G5 peer conferences.

The G5 post season bowl picture, with the exception of the access bowl, is currently incredibly bleak---lacking any semblance of innovation, imagination, and vision. Worse yet--there is no reason for it. Its not like there is a big financial incentive for the G5 bowls to be organized in their current manner. Its organized like this because nobody has tried to create a post bowl alignment that would make more money by creating more attractive games. To date, the only organized effort that the G5 has made is to create a bunch of games for 6-6 teams to attend.

(05-13-2017 10:32 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 05:53 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 10:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  A new twist on my concept, make these games permanent ties.

Holiday (MWC Champ vs. PAC #5)
Sun (CUSA Champ vs. B12 #4)
Liberty (SBC Champ vs. SEC #6)
Gator (AAC Champ vs. ACC #6)

A regional G5 champ for each bowl game vs. P5 upper half pick to ensure that if that P5 sends 3 schools to the CFP that the P5 side of the tie-in would have enough eligible teams to send.

The MAC as the conference that doesn't travel would either put its champ into a CFP bowl OR replace one of the G5 tie-ins (Gator or Holiday most years).

Put some higher payouts to these (2-3 million) from a TV contract and prime time slots to make them attractive.

From a viewing perspective, you replace a half interested P5 fan base of one school with super interested G5 conference fans since this would be the marquee bowl for the conference.

Can't see the Gator Bowl ever signing the AAC. The Gator has history trying to lose the Old Big East contract because of poor attendance in the BE days. It would be shocking to see them reverse course and agree to take on the AAC, which was the football playing remnant of the Old BE, now.

I have a hard time seeing any bowl with a P5 vs P5 contract dropping a P5 tie and replacing it with an AAC tie--even if it's for the champ. That would be a singularly rare occurrence should it ever come to pass.

MWC with Las Vegas, CUSA with Liberty had something similar to what I'm describing but the arrangement eroded over the bowl cycles.

The rational this time would be to drive more national interest in this game games with a G5 conference champ in them. One network behind these games and attractive time slots.

The G5 championship race is different because than the non-AQ race. If an only if the non-AQ had a "buster" were they in play for a BCS bowl. The G5 has a CFP slot so its an annual race between the 5 conferences for the slot. The conference championship games of each G5 conference are relevant because the highest ranked G5 team can lose the CC and thus send another conference representative to the bowl.

This is why I think it could be different this time as the G5 race would be driving it. The bowl games would be talked about as destinations for those conferences throughout the year when talking about the G5 race.

The Las Vegas Bowl has been almost entirely a MWC vs PAC game. There were a few years in the early 90's where it featured Big West Champ vs MAC Champ. Then UNLV joined, and that ended that affiliation.

(05-13-2017 10:39 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:00 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 07:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 06:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Then if CBS rebuilds its bowl portfolio it could then form the basis for a "bowl series" for G5 champions.

Well--the ratings numbers are there to support a higher value bowl game for those G5 champs---but Ive seen nothing to indicate any network is interested in putting up the money to make it happen.

It's a question of leadership within the G5 to propose something.

The P5 I know wants to propose new games that will push existing ones further down the totem poll. Could the G5 try to do pry a few loose from the P5 where their future P5 arrangement is shaky?

Then approach the P5 with a deal for it's lower picks to help drive up games. It could be something like 6th-7th picks from the P5 vs. G5 champs and BYU with a slot in it. But be played in traditional bowls; Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator that have name value to them.

Put them on CBS Christmas week opposite ESPN programming.

This appears to me to be a self-destructive strategy. What the G5 would be collectively saying is "our conference champions are peers of P5 mid-level teams". That sounds to me like an acknowledgement that they don't deserve their automatic bid to the NY6 bowl structure. Is that really the trade-off you want to make? To give up the exposure of an access bowl for a few low level prelims?

Its that way now...perhaps even worse. G5 champs play the lowest end of the P5 bowl qualifiers or (more often) mid-tier non-champion G5's. The G5 doesn't even regularly engage in G5 champ vs G5 champ bowl games. So, per your logic, the G5 effectively already devaluing their champions---even among their G5 peer conferences.

The post season bowl picture, with the exception of the access bowl, is currently incredibly bleak---lacking any semblance of innovation, imagination, and vision.

The P5 is already has tie-ins with the G5 4-5 times in the lowest tier games. Normally not against a G5 champ and not at a level where a G5 champ could help the bowl audience.

Why play some G5 rag tag there when it can be done at the Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator level vs. champs and where it can bring value? Sign the lowest rung P5 games to play against other P5's so if neither conference supplies it becomes a G5 vs. G5 bowl for that season.

(05-13-2017 10:40 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 10:32 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 05:53 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 10:12 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  A new twist on my concept, make these games permanent ties.

Holiday (MWC Champ vs. PAC #5)
Sun (CUSA Champ vs. B12 #4)
Liberty (SBC Champ vs. SEC #6)
Gator (AAC Champ vs. ACC #6)

A regional G5 champ for each bowl game vs. P5 upper half pick to ensure that if that P5 sends 3 schools to the CFP that the P5 side of the tie-in would have enough eligible teams to send.

The MAC as the conference that doesn't travel would either put its champ into a CFP bowl OR replace one of the G5 tie-ins (Gator or Holiday most years).

Put some higher payouts to these (2-3 million) from a TV contract and prime time slots to make them attractive.

From a viewing perspective, you replace a half interested P5 fan base of one school with super interested G5 conference fans since this would be the marquee bowl for the conference.

Can't see the Gator Bowl ever signing the AAC. The Gator has history trying to lose the Old Big East contract because of poor attendance in the BE days. It would be shocking to see them reverse course and agree to take on the AAC, which was the football playing remnant of the Old BE, now.

I have a hard time seeing any bowl with a P5 vs P5 contract dropping a P5 tie and replacing it with an AAC tie--even if it's for the champ. That would be a singularly rare occurrence should it ever come to pass.

MWC with Las Vegas, CUSA with Liberty had something similar to what I'm describing but the arrangement eroded over the bowl cycles.

The rational this time would be to drive more national interest in this game games with a G5 conference champ in them. One network behind these games and attractive time slots.

The G5 championship race is different because than the non-AQ race. If an only if the non-AQ had a "buster" were they in play for a BCS bowl. The G5 has a CFP slot so its an annual race between the 5 conferences for the slot. The conference championship games of each G5 conference are relevant because the highest ranked G5 team can lose the CC and thus send another conference representative to the bowl.

This is why I think it could be different this time as the G5 race would be driving it. The bowl games would be talked about as destinations for those conferences throughout the year when talking about the G5 race.

The Las Vegas Bowl has been almost entirely a MWC vs PAC game. There were a few years in the early 90's where it featured Big West Champ vs MAC Champ. Then UNLV joined, and that ended that affiliation.

But the quality of that PAC selection eroded through years, especially with the CFP where a P5 can send many extra teams there if they are having a big year.

Last wasn't the game SDSU vs. Houston? No PAC in that bowl last year.

(05-13-2017 10:49 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 10:40 AM)billybobby777 Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 10:32 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 05:53 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  Can't see the Gator Bowl ever signing the AAC. The Gator has history trying to lose the Old Big East contract because of poor attendance in the BE days. It would be shocking to see them reverse course and agree to take on the AAC, which was the football playing remnant of the Old BE, now.

I have a hard time seeing any bowl with a P5 vs P5 contract dropping a P5 tie and replacing it with an AAC tie--even if it's for the champ. That would be a singularly rare occurrence should it ever come to pass.

MWC with Las Vegas, CUSA with Liberty had something similar to what I'm describing but the arrangement eroded over the bowl cycles.

The rational this time would be to drive more national interest in this game games with a G5 conference champ in them. One network behind these games and attractive time slots.

The G5 championship race is different because than the non-AQ race. If an only if the non-AQ had a "buster" were they in play for a BCS bowl. The G5 has a CFP slot so its an annual race between the 5 conferences for the slot. The conference championship games of each G5 conference are relevant because the highest ranked G5 team can lose the CC and thus send another conference representative to the bowl.

This is why I think it could be different this time as the G5 race would be driving it. The bowl games would be talked about as destinations for those conferences throughout the year when talking about the G5 race.

The Las Vegas Bowl has been almost entirely a MWC vs PAC game. There were a few years in the early 90's where it featured Big West Champ vs MAC Champ. Then UNLV joined, and that ended that affiliation.

But the quality of that PAC selection eroded through years, especially with the CFP where a P5 can send many extra teams there if they are having a big year.

Last wasn't the game SDSU vs. Houston? No PAC in that bowl last year.

Eroded a little...from 1998 to 2006 The Las Vegas Bowl was MWC #2 vs PAC #5. When the MWC officially stopped sending its champ to the Liberty it started sending its champ to the Las Vegas. The MWC made that decision. In 2014* the MWC started getting its champ vs PAC #6. So slight erosion, but they also got the Cactus Bowl replacing the PAC as the PAC couldn't fill two its bowls. The MWC will always get at least 1 game with the PAC because they are the only 2 western conferences. Usually they'll get 2 PAC bowl games be it the Fiesta, New Mexico, Cactus or Hawaii in addition to Vegas. They have geography going for them. The AAC needs 4 P5 bowls per year. 2 vs the ACC and 2 vs the SEC. Maybe 1 vs the Big 12 in Texas.
*Boise got the Fiesta that year so MWC sent its #2 to the Las Vegas Bowl
.

The erosion is not just pick for pick. It's also tied to the evolution of the championship system.

1999 MWC #2 vs. PAC #5

MWC only had 8 teams at the time while the PAC had 10. The PAC #5 could become the PAC #6 with two PAC teams in the BCS but only about a 20% chance of that. Almost no chance of the PAC having no bowl eligible team.

2016 MWC #1 vs. PAC #6

MWC is now at 12 teams and so is the PAC. PAC #6 could become PAC #7 or PAC #8 with a 75% chance of slipping at least one rung down the order. The chances of a PAC #7 or PAC #8 not having a bowl eligible team at that pick is 50% so there is a 40% chance of the PAC not filling its tie-in at all.

The MWC, CUSA and AAC have all tried to secure a nice bowl arrangement for their champ but what initially was a very good arrangement eroded in each case over time or completely ended. What I'm thinking is if the G5 could get their heads together they could reinvigorate G5 vs. P5 arrangement.

Some of these ties the G5 has been trying with the P5 with 9th, 10th, 11th picks in bowls with no tradition doesn't get them anywhere in perception IMO.

G5 in the Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator against 4th, 5th, 6th P5 selections on OTA that is actually meaningful.

(05-13-2017 05:31 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The erosion is not just pick for pick. It's also tied to the evolution of the championship system.

1999 MWC #2 vs. PAC #5

MWC only had 8 teams at the time while the PAC had 10. The PAC #5 could become the PAC #6 with two PAC teams in the BCS but only about a 20% chance of that. Almost no chance of the PAC having no bowl eligible team.

2016 MWC #1 vs. PAC #6

MWC is now at 12 teams and so is the PAC. PAC #6 could become PAC #7 or PAC #8 with a 75% chance of slipping at least one rung down the order. The chances of a PAC #7 or PAC #8 not having a bowl eligible team at that pick is 50% so there is a 40% chance of the PAC not filling its tie-in at all.

The MWC, CUSA and AAC have all tried to secure a nice bowl arrangement for their champ but what initially was a very good arrangement eroded in each case over time or completely ended. What I'm thinking is if the G5 could get their heads together they could reinvigorate G5 vs. P5 arrangement.

Some of these ties the G5 has been trying with the P5 with 9th, 10th, 11th picks in bowls with no tradition doesn't get them anywhere in perception IMO.

G5 in the Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator against 4th, 5th, 6th P5 selections on OTA that is actually meaningful.

Gator would never do it, heck the Sun, Liberty and Holiday are all P5 match ups with G5 local teams! UTEP, Memphis and San Diego St all got bumped out of their own stadium's bowl games. Sucks....

Another note: The MWC is almost entirely dependent on their own bowls:
Las Vegas Bowl: played in UNLV's stadium
Hawaii Bowl: played in Hawaii's stadium
New Mexico Bowl: played in New Mexico's stadium
Idaho Potato Bowl: played in Boise's stadium

(05-13-2017 10:45 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 10:39 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-13-2017 09:23 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 08:00 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(05-12-2017 07:03 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Well--the ratings numbers are there to support a higher value bowl game for those G5 champs---but Ive seen nothing to indicate any network is interested in putting up the money to make it happen.

It's a question of leadership within the G5 to propose something.

The P5 I know wants to propose new games that will push existing ones further down the totem poll. Could the G5 try to do pry a few loose from the P5 where their future P5 arrangement is shaky?

Then approach the P5 with a deal for it's lower picks to help drive up games. It could be something like 6th-7th picks from the P5 vs. G5 champs and BYU with a slot in it. But be played in traditional bowls; Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator that have name value to them.

Put them on CBS Christmas week opposite ESPN programming.

This appears to me to be a self-destructive strategy. What the G5 would be collectively saying is "our conference champions are peers of P5 mid-level teams". That sounds to me like an acknowledgement that they don't deserve their automatic bid to the NY6 bowl structure. Is that really the trade-off you want to make? To give up the exposure of an access bowl for a few low level prelims?

Its that way now...perhaps even worse. G5 champs play the lowest end of the P5 bowl qualifiers or (more often) mid-tier non-champion G5's. The G5 doesn't even regularly engage in G5 champ vs G5 champ bowl games. So, per your logic, the G5 effectively already devaluing their champions---even among their G5 peer conferences.

The post season bowl picture, with the exception of the access bowl, is currently incredibly bleak---lacking any semblance of innovation, imagination, and vision.

The P5 is already has tie-ins with the G5 4-5 times in the lowest tier games. Normally not against a G5 champ and not at a level where a G5 champ could help the bowl audience.

Why play some G5 rag tag there when it can be done at the Holiday, Sun, Liberty, Gator level vs. champs and where it can bring value? Sign the lowest rung P5 games to play against other P5's so if neither conference supplies it becomes a G5 vs. G5 bowl for that season.

I'd be fine with that and believe it would be a ratings success. The reality is no Bowl director has ever been fired for signing a P5 vs P5 deal. The folks making these decisions are old guard and rigid in thier thinking. They are the polar opposite of innovative outside the box thinkers. An upgraded G5 bowl post season is an idea that's going to have to be pushed and pushed hard from outside the Bowl world. It's never going to emerge from within the Bowl community.

Unless a network really pushes the idea and funds it---It ain't happening. It is the kind of space where an innovative company like Google or Twitter (someone that's willing to do something completely different) might be the only ones with the motivation and the financial clout to get everyone sign on.

I predict that when the bowls redo their agreements, the P5 will not do anymore bowls with the G5.