(05-09-2017 10:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  MAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA offices are getting some calls for the forseeable future.

I can believe the conference would do this. Sad this is the result. Completely validates Wichita. I wasn't a fan of them wanting to go to the AAC, felt selfish and wanted them to go to the A10, but, if this was the best the Valley could do, run. Just run.

What you're stating seems to be a popular opinion among MVC fans... but I don't really understand how the MVC could realistically "do better". SLU wasn't ever coming: they want actively want to get AWAY from the Midwest (which is what a lot of fans don't seem to understand and/or want to believe) and the *only* league that they want to move to is the Big East. Murray State is a decent basketball school, but was it really going to turn the MVC into a multi-bid conference (particularly when its location isn't very desirable)? Furthermore, if the MVC isn't going to be a multi-bid conference, then isn't adding any additional members beyond 10 going to provide diminishing returns? Finally, if the only other "realistic" conferences for other MVC schools to move to that are an increase in revenue/prestige would require forming an FBS football program from scratch and then hope that the MAC, Sun Belt, et. al provide them with an invite, are those really "realistic" choices at all? The MVC schools don't exactly have a plethora of better options - they're all pretty far from being viable Atlantic 10 candidates at this point (much less Big East candidates) and needing to add FBS football for other "move-up" options isn't exactly a simple or short process. The MVC is honestly the best option that anyone that is still in that league has at this point.

I think you could have applications from virtually everyone from the Big Sky to Southland, to Summit, to Horizon, and OVC. Valpo isn't the best from that entire crop. It's the best all in the Valley can presently agree on.

I don't dislike Valpo. I dislike this resonating vibe speculated to be true of the conference: bus-league politics from flailing private schools and their shrinking programs fighting for self-preservation than holistic improvement. Well, now they get to play more schools hugging the Great Lakes in Chicago and the 'burbs. Great for Evansville, Bradley, and Drake. For the others...well, at least Valpo has some decent hoops. Getting into a new state with even more passionate hoop fans or programs doesn't seem to interest the private schools, though.

I'm watching as a certain near-death conference keeps acquiring flagship programs. And could actually pick up more, then watching it line up against a conference that used to have a similar profile but traded it for small private colleges. What's going on between MVC, Summit, Horizon, and Big Sky...it's very interesting.

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

UNI doesn't have the academic chops for MAC.

MAC would be better looking at UIC and Milwaukee that do have the chops and wouldn't take a cut of the MAC's TV money since they don't play football.

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

CUSA is the G5 conference with the potential to make a move on the MVC.

SBC is full and its a football first conference.

MAC is full and with TV dollars not going up in the G5 world nobody is leaving. AAC doesn't make enough money to cover the travel.

The Missouri St's and JMU's should have jumped for the SBC when they had the opportunity IMO.

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

One of the big issues with those studies is that the financial picture has changed dramatically at the conference level, and for many of those schools who did studies at the schools level.

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

It's not so much anything is dead per se. Anything can happen *in theory*. However, as arkstfan has pointed out previously, the incentives for any G5 conference to expand have been drastically reduced over the past few years. There's no additional CFP payout for leagues that go beyond 10 members (which all of the G5 leagues have already passed) and it's not realistic to believe that TV and bowl contracts are going to be influenced by any FCS move-up school, so expansion for any G5 league would likely cause a revenue loss (where more teams are splitting the same amount of revenue, thereby getting lower shares). The AAC's addition of Wichita State at least brings in the prospect of a material rise in NCAA Tournament credits that will honestly mean much more to the AAC revenue bottom line than any potential TV contracts rights increase. However, schools like Wichita State are virtually non-existent within the G5. The Big East schools are already making more TV money without the expense of FBS football. There are a few schools within the Atlantic 10 (e.g. Dayton, VCU, et. al) that might be attractive to the G5 leagues, but then we get into the fact that the A-10 is a straight up better basketball league (and thereby NCAA Tournament credit generator) than any of the G5 conferences with the exception of the AAC.

Regardless, we need to see where the financial incentive is today for the G5 leagues to add more football members. Those leagues can't afford to expand for the sake of expanding or take a flier on a school in order to add a particular market.

(05-09-2017 11:01 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  MAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA offices are getting some calls for the forseeable future.

I can believe the conference would do this. Sad this is the result. Completely validates Wichita. I wasn't a fan of them wanting to go to the AAC, felt selfish and wanted them to go to the A10, but, if this was the best the Valley could do, run. Just run.

What you're stating seems to be a popular opinion among MVC fans... but I don't really understand how the MVC could realistically "do better". SLU wasn't ever coming: they want actively want to get AWAY from the Midwest (which is what a lot of fans don't seem to understand and/or want to believe) and the *only* league that they want to move to is the Big East. Murray State is a decent basketball school, but was it really going to turn the MVC into a multi-bid conference (particularly when its location isn't very desirable)? Furthermore, if the MVC isn't going to be a multi-bid conference, then isn't adding any additional members beyond 10 going to provide diminishing returns? Finally, if the only other "realistic" conferences for other MVC schools to move to that are an increase in revenue/prestige would require forming an FBS football program from scratch and then hope that the MAC, Sun Belt, et. al provide them with an invite, are those really "realistic" choices at all? The MVC schools don't exactly have a plethora of better options - they're all pretty far from being viable Atlantic 10 candidates at this point (much less Big East candidates) and needing to add FBS football for other "move-up" options isn't exactly a simple or short process. The MVC is honestly the best option that anyone that is still in that league has at this point.

I think you could have applications from virtually everyone from the Big Sky to Southland, to Summit, to Horizon, and OVC. Valpo isn't the best from that entire crop. It's the best all in the Valley can presently agree on.

I don't dislike Valpo. I dislike this resonating vibe speculated to be true of the conference: bus-league politics from flailing private schools and their shrinking programs fighting for self-preservation than holistic improvement. Well, now they get to play more schools hugging the Great Lakes in Chicago and the 'burbs. Great for Evansville, Bradley, and Drake. For the others...well, at least Valpo has some decent hoops. Getting into a new state with even more passionate hoop fans or programs doesn't seem to interest the private schools, though.

I'm watching as a certain near-death conference keeps acquiring flagship programs. And could actually pick up more, then watching it line up against a conference that used to have a similar profile but traded it for small private colleges. What's going on between MVC, Summit, Horizon, and Big Sky...it's very interesting.

I guess I don't see the "bus vibe" as being particularly prevalent here. Valpo is within the current MVC footprint, but if you're looking at history, it's arguably the most accomplished on-the-court basketball program over a long period of time that was a realistic option for them. Murray State is a solid program, but some MVC fans seemed to idealize them as if they were Kentucky's version of Wichita State, which was far from the truth. At best, Valpo and Murray State were comparable on-the-court option and Valpo also happened to be a geographic fit that enhanced exposure in the MOST important TV market in the MVC footprint (Chicago) BY FAR. (As in, you could combine all of the other markets that the MVC schools are located in and add in Murray State and they would still be a fraction of the Chicago market.) It was almost as a lot of the appeal of Murray State supporters within the MVC was to actively avoid the Chicago area, which makes about as much sense as an East Coast league actively avoiding the NYC area (which is to say that it makes absolutely no sense at all).

(05-09-2017 12:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

It's not so much anything is dead per se. Anything can happen *in theory*. However, as arkstfan has pointed out previously, the incentives for any G5 conference to expand have been drastically reduced over the past few years. There's no additional CFP payout for leagues that go beyond 10 members (which all of the G5 leagues have already passed) and it's not realistic to believe that TV and bowl contracts are going to be influenced by any FCS move-up school, so expansion for any G5 league would likely cause a revenue loss (where more teams are splitting the same amount of revenue, thereby getting lower shares). The AAC's addition of Wichita State at least brings in the prospect of a material rise in NCAA Tournament credits that will honestly mean much more to the AAC revenue bottom line than any potential TV contracts rights increase. However, schools like Wichita State are virtually non-existent within the G5. The Big East schools are already making more TV money without the expense of FBS football. There are a few schools within the Atlantic 10 (e.g. Dayton, VCU, et. al) that might be attractive to the G5 leagues, but then we get into the fact that the A-10 is a straight up better basketball league (and thereby NCAA Tournament credit generator) than any of the G5 conferences with the exception of the AAC.

Regardless, we need to see where the financial incentive is today for the G5 leagues to add more football members. Those leagues can't afford to expand for the sake of expanding or take a flier on a school in order to add a particular market.

the incentive to go beyond 10 has gone UP with the TV money drying up.

CUSA splitting there small TV contract among two extra mouths costs them what....$50,000 or less per school per year? That's nothing.

there are two ways to increase the bottom line. Increased revenue. Or slashing expenses. The TV revenue is shrinking. That is a non issue now.

but the savings in travel and the increase in attendance/local interest/etc by adding and going more regional could increase the NET income, even if it doesn't increase the Gross income.

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:23 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:20 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  MAC, Sun Belt, and C-USA offices are getting some calls for the forseeable future.

I can believe the conference would do this. Sad this is the result. Completely validates Wichita. I wasn't a fan of them wanting to go to the AAC, felt selfish and wanted them to go to the A10, but, if this was the best the Valley could do, run. Just run.

The schools have to be WANTED by those conferences they call... realistically, who will find a home in an FBS league? Nobody in those conferences wants to split their already small piece of the pie even smaller.

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

MAC and CUSA won't take a call from any MVC schools. Why would they. The SBC would only look at MSU if either or both non-FB playing schools decide to leave (not happening).

No MVC school playing FCS FB is going to get an invite to an FBS conference anytime soon.

I'm not sure the Sun Belt is in the cards for Missouri State at this time, even if they wanted to jump. The Belt is not interested in any of the other schools either. Missouri State COULD have jumped a year or two ago, this is true. But times and needs change. I think the Belt's needs and wants are different now.

(05-09-2017 11:56 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  CUSA is the G5 conference with the potential to make a move on the MVC.

SBC is full and its a football first conference.

MAC is full and with TV dollars not going up in the G5 world nobody is leaving. AAC doesn't make enough money to cover the travel.

The Missouri St's and JMU's should have jumped for the SBC when they had the opportunity IMO.

so wait a second....
CUSA has 14 teams, but could make room
MAC has 12 teams, but is full
SBC has 10 teams for football, but is full

ok.

(05-09-2017 12:58 PM)stever20 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:56 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  CUSA is the G5 conference with the potential to make a move on the MVC.

SBC is full and its a football first conference.

MAC is full and with TV dollars not going up in the G5 world nobody is leaving. AAC doesn't make enough money to cover the travel.

The Missouri St's and JMU's should have jumped for the SBC when they had the opportunity IMO.

so wait a second....
CUSA has 14 teams, but could make room
MAC has 12 teams, but is full
SBC has 10 teams for football, but is full

ok.

SBC is hamstrung by UTA and UALR, unless it is for football only additions.

I could see CUSA expanding to 16 moving UAB to the east and completely eliminating interdivisional play outside of conference championships. That would cut costs despite not increasing revenue. CUSA east has a tight footprint, notwithstanding the Florida teams, as does CUSA west. Operating them as two separate conferences sharing auto bids is one way to cut costs since revenue is not looking to be increased anytime soon.

The Sunbelt already has a tight footprint and cannot cut travel much more thus no way to decrease costs. Also being at 10, there is no real way to increase revenue as 10 is the new optimal number

The MAC is in much the same boat as the Sunbelt. Tight geographical footprint so travel is not that big a deal.

(05-09-2017 10:20 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  https://twitter.com/ClifSmart/status/861959323613876226

Interesting.

So the MVC could go to 11 or 12. I guess they'll evaluate more teams over the course of the year AND if they decide to go to 20 conference games. I think think the 20 conference game is key as to any expansion. Having 10 you pair up nicely for round robin....but if getting any extra home game is better then we'll see #11 around May 2018.

(05-09-2017 12:13 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

One of the big issues with those studies is that the financial picture has changed dramatically at the conference level, and for many of those schools who did studies at the schools level.

Nothing has changed that dramatically. And these viability studies by their nature study cost structures across numerous landscapes. If anything has dramatically changed rendering studies outdated, it's funding sources, not revenue streams. But, still, these studies were conducted during or after the worst of the recession years.

Quote:but the savings in travel and the increase in attendance/local interest/etc by adding and going more regional could increase the NET income, even if it doesn't increase the Gross income.

Yes. And D1, thanks to your major conferences, have so disregarded this, at their own detriment, really. Modeling, analytics, and speculation well ahead of the real dollars that one could actually count on. The stupidity of schools pulling this game of chasing media dollars are that they do so at the expense of the traditional and still immediate and real sources of money.

I don't think there's an easy answer to this. Strongly centralized, small regional conferences aren't rolling in it, but, it's not like the Big Ten is actually making big money, too (I mean, really...with all of this money, why isn't it creating new programs, and why are schools still looking for donors to step up an do the work for them more now...which one is it?).

I guess, when it comes to it for MVC...when it picks Loyola and Valpo, are their fans going to show up the same way Creighton and Wichita's did. Because, those two schools were out there...their supporters still showed up. That's worth maintaining when exploring expansion, but, I don't get the sense it was considered when it came down to it.

(05-09-2017 02:00 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:20 AM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  https://twitter.com/ClifSmart/status/861959323613876226

Interesting.

So the MVC could go to 11 or 12. I guess they'll evaluate more teams over the course of the year AND if they decide to go to 20 conference games. I think think the 20 conference game is key as to any expansion. Having 10 you pair up nicely for round robin....but if getting any extra home game is better then we'll see #11 around May 2018.

I don't think they want 11 teams. 11 teams means someone every weekend is off from conference play. Total non starter for them. I think quite possibly what happened was they didn't have a consensus #12 and so that's why they didn't add Murray right now.

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:55 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UNI has had talks in the past with the MAC. Illinois State has talked about it in the past and MSU has had some level of talks in the past with CUSA and the Belt. They may not have a landing spot at this moment, but creating a dialogue and building some relationships within those conferences can't hurt future chances if things change. Word is, Wichita had been talking with the AAC for three years or so prior to being admitted. Things escalated in the past year with those talks but being proactive definitely didn't hurt our chances in moving.

MVC schools can do the same with other conferences. It won't hurt them at all and can only help. There are schools in the MVC that could benefit with a step up to FBS and a conference switch if a chance comes for them. The three mentioned are the best options but all have some "problems" to overcome as well.

Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

Illinois St. has talked quite a bit about it in the past, especially around 2010 when all the moves were happening. And the MAC has not said they have no interest. They just haven't had the finances to move up.

More on the MVC expansion.
http://www.ozarkssportszone.com/2017/05/...-addition/

(05-09-2017 12:48 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 12:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

It's not so much anything is dead per se. Anything can happen *in theory*. However, as arkstfan has pointed out previously, the incentives for any G5 conference to expand have been drastically reduced over the past few years. There's no additional CFP payout for leagues that go beyond 10 members (which all of the G5 leagues have already passed) and it's not realistic to believe that TV and bowl contracts are going to be influenced by any FCS move-up school, so expansion for any G5 league would likely cause a revenue loss (where more teams are splitting the same amount of revenue, thereby getting lower shares). The AAC's addition of Wichita State at least brings in the prospect of a material rise in NCAA Tournament credits that will honestly mean much more to the AAC revenue bottom line than any potential TV contracts rights increase. However, schools like Wichita State are virtually non-existent within the G5. The Big East schools are already making more TV money without the expense of FBS football. There are a few schools within the Atlantic 10 (e.g. Dayton, VCU, et. al) that might be attractive to the G5 leagues, but then we get into the fact that the A-10 is a straight up better basketball league (and thereby NCAA Tournament credit generator) than any of the G5 conferences with the exception of the AAC.

Regardless, we need to see where the financial incentive is today for the G5 leagues to add more football members. Those leagues can't afford to expand for the sake of expanding or take a flier on a school in order to add a particular market.

the incentive to go beyond 10 has gone UP with the TV money drying up.

CUSA splitting there small TV contract among two extra mouths costs them what....$50,000 or less per school per year? That's nothing.

there are two ways to increase the bottom line. Increased revenue. Or slashing expenses. The TV revenue is shrinking. That is a non issue now.

but the savings in travel and the increase in attendance/local interest/etc by adding and going more regional could increase the NET income, even if it doesn't increase the Gross income.

Adding two teams would cost each member of the Sun Belt roughly $300,000 maybe a bit more if it costs some money in CFP performance or the recent run of extra NCAA units dries up.

You don't voluntarily give up cash unless you have certainty that you are cutting expenses and certainty that you are adding a program that fits across the board.

(05-09-2017 12:48 PM)Duke Dawg Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 12:14 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:42 AM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 11:30 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 10:58 AM)Stay Cool Wrote:  Talks in the past do not mean still relevant ideas in the present. Times and payouts per school change all the time, none of those conferences mentioned are willing to split the pie smaller in the face of all the cutbacks happening to cable etc

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

That's why you read the entire post and don't stop and respond after the first sentence.

I don't know why people scoff at this stuff like it's all dead. We're not decades removed from when a bunch of these schools spent money to conduct viability studies. It cooled off...for now. Maybe the spots aren't there, but the conversations don't stop.

That's my point with the whole thing. Whether or not anybody really goes anywhere is one thing, but the talks will increase, and that's where and how these things really start. It's really the bulk of the story, too. And all it takes is the right call at the right time, or someone saying something to the right set of faces (ahem, UMD at an AAU meeting). Ebb and flow.

It's not so much anything is dead per se. Anything can happen *in theory*. However, as arkstfan has pointed out previously, the incentives for any G5 conference to expand have been drastically reduced over the past few years. There's no additional CFP payout for leagues that go beyond 10 members (which all of the G5 leagues have already passed) and it's not realistic to believe that TV and bowl contracts are going to be influenced by any FCS move-up school, so expansion for any G5 league would likely cause a revenue loss (where more teams are splitting the same amount of revenue, thereby getting lower shares). The AAC's addition of Wichita State at least brings in the prospect of a material rise in NCAA Tournament credits that will honestly mean much more to the AAC revenue bottom line than any potential TV contracts rights increase. However, schools like Wichita State are virtually non-existent within the G5. The Big East schools are already making more TV money without the expense of FBS football. There are a few schools within the Atlantic 10 (e.g. Dayton, VCU, et. al) that might be attractive to the G5 leagues, but then we get into the fact that the A-10 is a straight up better basketball league (and thereby NCAA Tournament credit generator) than any of the G5 conferences with the exception of the AAC.

Regardless, we need to see where the financial incentive is today for the G5 leagues to add more football members. Those leagues can't afford to expand for the sake of expanding or take a flier on a school in order to add a particular market.

the incentive to go beyond 10 has gone UP with the TV money drying up.

CUSA splitting there small TV contract among two extra mouths costs them what....$50,000 or less per school per year? That's nothing.

there are two ways to increase the bottom line. Increased revenue. Or slashing expenses. The TV revenue is shrinking. That is a non issue now.

but the savings in travel and the increase in attendance/local interest/etc by adding and going more regional could increase the NET income, even if it doesn't increase the Gross income.

Splitting the football pie 16 ways vs. 14 ways is only 2 more slices of 6.25% of the money individually.

Splitting from 10 to 12 is 8.33% per each slice. It's like 40% more expensive to do so going from 10 to 12 vs. 14 to 16.

Go to 16, add a couple more schools that bring value, save on travel costs and it can make some sense. Better chance of having a school in the conversation for an at-large bid if CUSA had NMSU among its ranks. That would be an improvement really over where CUSA basketball has been the last 5 years or so.

I: No at-large conversation. (where CUSA is now)
II: In the conversation (where MAC or MVC is now)
III:Two bid league (AAC last year)
IV: Three or more bid league (A10)

CUSA has a long ways to go in basketball to get to the level that schools like WKU or ODU thought they were going to have when they joined. That's why I can see NMSU and its pedigree bringing value. They'll dominate CUSA West in basketball and make other schools in football look good.