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Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 12:55 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 12:26 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 12:14 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:46 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:36 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Western Illinois, IPFW or IUPUI are going to the A Sun?

Really? The BSC have basically said, don't let the door hit you in the ass. What is UND going to do? Pull a George Costanza and not leave?

You have way too much time on your hands. Have you already forgotten the two year WAC FBS fiasco you made a fool out of yourself by playing up? How about the, UND will never got to the Summit? I would suggest you take the next 6 months off of posting. Your theories are back to crazy land again.

Oh, budget crisis? Does UND not have one? And now you have a Title IX complaint?

Some people are just emotionally invested in the Summit. Can you imagine that?

Nope, we're invested in reality. Maybe the problem UND have, and the reason your transition to D1 went so poorly is your administration, at least in the past didn't live in the real world. Thankfully Kennedy does.

Oh, and I trust the SDSU administration. Every decision they have made since moving up has been spot on. Every... single... one. I'll wait to see what they do.

SDSU should have dropped four or five sports like we just did. Your school is so bloated with programs that are porly funded. But dropping programs is a political decision that irks a lot of people, including ones that are judicial activists.

When are going to understand that the IP's are not going to act in your best interests. Depending on them and W Ill for the Summit's future is a fools game.

We don't depend on anyone for our future, and our athletic department is just fine thank you. Oh, and in recent interviews neither Justin Sell (our AD) or Matt Larsen (NDSU AD) seem overly concerned about your frantic scenarios. And it is those two schools that run both the Summit and MVFC. What they say, what they do rules.
So Larsen and Sell are going to direct iUPUI, IPFW, and Western Ill on their futures? So delusional but you still believe it.

Presidents make conference decisions not AD's. There is nothing frantic about this because our President knew how the domino's were going to fall more than one year ago when Wichita St signaled a move to the AAC. Presidents have much more information than this board, which is mostly groping about as blind men and women,
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 01:59 PM by NoDak.)
05-08-2017 01:20 PM
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The Sicatoka Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 10:48 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Here is a dream scenario for the Summit

NDSU/UND
SDSU/USD
MONTANA/MONTANA ST
IDAHO/IDAHO ST/EASTERN WASHINGTON


Non Football Members
Denver/Omaha/UMKC

Football Only Members
Sacramento St, Cal Davis, Cal Poly

I'd say no "FB only" members and you'd nailed it.
I'd also say it'd be UNoColo or Weber State long before ISU.

What you're looking for is good scheduling.
What I bolded of yours is perfect: 8 FB games; 22 BB games. (9 FB members; 12 BB members)
05-08-2017 01:48 PM
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The Sicatoka Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
The Montanas and Idaho are in a unique position. They don't look anything like the rest of the conference they're in (sans North Dakota, for now). They want to keep touch with the west coast recruiting grounds. But they also know academics and like-minded goals matter: You are the company you keep.

But their unique position is also one of sparse population and remote location. Folks won't come begging to them; they must make their own way, their own future.

And who better to do that with but with another group of schools that have many of the same issues.

This "northern FBS future" could meet all of that for them (and the Dakotas). They could play their non-conference games westward looking. They'd be with a peer group of academic flagship (state name) schools.
05-08-2017 02:00 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 11:43 PM)billings Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 10:17 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 10:11 PM)billings Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 10:09 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:55 PM)billings Wrote:  yep. large alumni base in portland, spokane, slc (weber state) and nor cal with direct air connections. zero alumni base or direct flights in/to the dakotas. aint happening. huge hit on travel and fan base along with recruiting. keep dreaming
Might as well join an NAIA league if that kind of exposure is tactical to the Montanas.

Last year, PSU attracted 728 and 705 total fans to their Montana and Montana St mbb games. An awful lot of Montanans showed up to make it worth it. 01-ncaabbs


it is about football which you also want them to move. nice diversion though.

Portland State didn't play either Montana last year if fb.
And with Idaho coming in that will still be a frequent occurence.

Yep The fans bitched about it and want the big sky to be smaller and more western based. They want to go to a round robin format due to missing those key fan games.

MSU fans would want a Big Sky of the following and play an 8 game conference schedule where everyone plays everyone and pretty easy travel for oly sports.

UM
MSU
EWU
PSU
UC Davis
SAC State
Idaho
Idaho State
Weber State

Maybe Cal Poly and only miss one team a year.

Summit can Have UNC, SUU and NAU.

IN reality UNC might be the only team interested in Dakota midwestern based league for many reasons. The ideal conference for the montana school is to drop 3-4 from the big sky and stay Northwestern based. The Dakotas are just not on the radar in the west and most are happy UND is leaving and not interested in going back there. The loss of UND will not be mourned in the BIG SKY and they won't be replaced

The Montanas dream of playing Utah St, Nevada, Boise St, and PAC12 teams regularly. The only way they can do that is if they move to FBS with like minded and capable schools that won't blow the budget out. Sac St, NAU, PSU, ISU etc are just only western date fillers, not true competition as they have no fan base or moneyed donors to speak of.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 02:10 PM by NoDak.)
05-08-2017 02:04 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 09:47 AM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:16 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  When those three go, getting a DII moveups doesnt do anything for the Summit, as the transitions takes too long.

I think you're thinking of an eight year transition, which I believe is for schools currently outside DII looking to move to DI. St Cloud and Duluth aren't in that situation.

But regardless, which is shorter: eight years or forever? The later represents the time table for Montana's + Idaho joining the Dakotas in the Summit.

(05-07-2017 05:33 PM)NoDak Wrote:  If UMKC repents and comes back, the WAC is suddenly in trouble. Either way one conference loses its autobid unless the Big Sky gives up schools.

If the WAC can present a reasonable plan (say perhaps another couple California schools, maybe UCSD and Azusa), I feel like the NCAA would value the traditional brand enough to give them a waiver. Not like it would do damage to anyone else.

A DII transition to DI takes 4 years. A Summit down to six full teams must add a full member within a two year grace period. A DII doesn't do any good. The NCAA has been strict on that in the past - see the CHA for them losing their mens hockey bid.


NCAA could bend the rules since they did not planned former athletes suing them for money. FCOAs changed all that because of the lawsuits. There are hints recently that D1 could have a division at D1 basketball and the rest of the sports. We might see that conferences like WCC, A-!0, Big East be D1-A and the rest be in the 1AA. That means we might see D2 schools being adopted to be part of the 1AA for all sports.
Big Sky, MVFC, Southland, CAA, Southern and maybe OVC could be FBS conference while conference like Lone Star, RMAC, GNAC, Gulf South and some others could become FCS conferences.
05-08-2017 02:13 PM
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solohawks Online
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Post: #66
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 01:48 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 10:48 PM)solohawks Wrote:  Here is a dream scenario for the Summit

NDSU/UND
SDSU/USD
MONTANA/MONTANA ST
IDAHO/IDAHO ST/EASTERN WASHINGTON


Non Football Members
Denver/Omaha/UMKC

Football Only Members
Sacramento St, Cal Davis, Cal Poly

I'd say no "FB only" members and you'd nailed it.
I'd also say it'd be UNoColo or Weber State long before ISU.

What you're looking for is good scheduling.
What I bolded of yours is perfect: 8 FB games; 22 BB games. (9 FB members; 12 BB members)
For football though they are going to want that California exposure, no?
05-08-2017 02:58 PM
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The Sicatoka Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 02:58 PM)solohawks Wrote:  For football though they are going to want that California exposure, no?

Non-conference games in CA gets them what they're looking for.
05-08-2017 03:03 PM
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TardisCaptain Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
The Big North (9 FB, 12 Oly)
Nice and compact. Use out-of-league games for recruiting purposes.

--West Division--
Seattle/Portland St
EWU/Idaho
Montana/MSU

--East Division--
North Dakota/NDSU
South Dakota/SDSU
Denver/Omaha
05-08-2017 03:31 PM
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AZcats Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 05:49 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 01:54 AM)AZcats Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 12:00 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Azusa Pacific and Dixie State are not bad in football. Neither are Colorado Mesa and Colorado State-Pueblo. Central Washington and Western Oregon are not that bad at times. Sadly, several Big Sky schools are bad in several sports.

Dixie State has played 11 seasons of NCAA football. Their all-time record is 32-87 overall, 22-50 conference. The first RMAC season in 2016 was the only winning season they have had at 6-5, 6-4 conference. I would say that qualifies at 'not good' instead of 'not bad'. I'm not sure Central Washington and Western Oregon are even fully funded in D2 and if so would have troubles getting scholarship levels up to D1 levels. The RMAC schools are not fully funded yet because the RMAC limit is currently less than the NCAA limit. The RMAC is gradually raising their limit by 2 per year until the NCAA limit is reached in 2019 but that doesn't mean that the schools have to give all 36 scholarships.


You have to take into account with what is going on with the NCAA, players want to be paid, and so forth. The NCAA have to reform to take into account what is going on. FBS football could trickle down to the FCS, D2 and D3 that players want to be paid. Arkansas Tech got caught at D2 doing a some type of FCOAs for their athletes in football, both basketball, baseball and softball. Several schools at the D2 got put on probation because of it. If D2 schools want to do this to help out? Then, they could move to D1, or restructure D2 so that they can do a FCOAs. That is why I do see several D2 schools could move up to D1 so that they do not violate D2 rules. I do not know why D2 schools get invited to NCAA D1 meetings in the first place. I think Central Oklahoma might have been caught doing the same thing for their football team.

Schools on probation.
Georgia Institute of Technology Football, men's basketball June 13, 2017
University of Missouri Men's basketball August 1, 2017
San Jose State University Women's basketball October 25, 2017
Georgia Southern football July 2018
La.-Lafayette January 2018 football
SMU men's basketball and men's golf September 2018
Notre Dame football November 2017
Hawaii men's basketball December 2018
University of Mississippi Women's basketball, women's track & field October 6, 2019
University of Southern Mississippi Men's basketball January 29, 2020
Syracuse University Football, men's basketball March 5, 2020
Campbell University Baseball, wrestling August 10, 2017
Texas Southern University Entire athletic program October 8, 2017
Weber State University Football November 18, 2017
Morehead State University Baseball, men's basketball, women's basketball, men's cross country, football, men's golf, women's soccer, softball, women's tennis February 9, 2018
Jackson State University Men's tennis July 1, 2018
Norfolk State University Entire athletic program 2018
Lamar University Men's golf September 21, 2018
Alcorn State University Football, men's basketball, baseball, men's and women's tennis, men's and women's cross country, women's soccer, men's and women's track and field and women's volleyball October 18, 2018
Alabama State University Softball October 19, 2018
Southeast Missouri State University Men's basketball February 11, 2019
Mississippi Valley State University Men's and women's cross country, men's and women's indoor track & field, men's and women's outdoor track & field, and one unnamed sport March 23, 2019
Samford University Baseball, men's basketball, men’s cross country, football, men’s tennis, men’s track and field, women’s soccer, softball April 7, 2019
Southern University Entire athletic program November 15, 2021
University of North Carolina at Greensboro 13 of 17 varsity sports[nf 1] June 24, 2017
Indiana University – Purdue University Fort Wayne Entire program November 23, 2017
Saint Peter's University Men's and women's swimming & diving February 1, 2018
California State University, Northridge Men's basketball December 6, 2019

D2
Arkansas Tech University Entire program June 3, 2017
Lenoir–Rhyne University Men's basketball August 24, 2017
Morehouse College Entire program July 14, 2018
Central State University Entire program March 3, 2019
Seattle Pacific University Women's soccer March 9, 2019
West Texas A&M University Football March 22, 2019
Cheyney University of Pennsylvania Entire program August 20, 2019
Eastern New Mexico University Entire program August 31, 2019

D3
Hunter College Men's volleyball, men's and women's basketball May 25, 2017
Rose–Hulman Institute of Technology Baseball, women's basketball, football, men's soccer, men's and women's track & field December 21, 2017
Thomas More College Women's basketball November 14, 2018
Susquehanna University Football November 21, 2018
Kalamazoo College Entire athletic program March 21, 2019
Baruch College Women's basketball July 1, 2020

The issues with these schools from football, basketball and all that is that the schools gave extra money for scholarships for students because the scholarships have not gone up when dorm, room and board and meals have. As for schools like Central Oklahoma who came off the probation for football? They are losing money when they are not going to post seasons. Arkansas Tech is losing money for not going to post season play.

http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/...cision.pdf

I see what Arkansas Tech and others did was more of FCOAs that the scholarships could not cover. It should be address at all levels on how schools could be better benefit if they do go D1 or implement some sort of FCOAs.

What??? Arkansas Tech is on probation because housing security deposits were paid for or waived for athletes, that's it; nothing close to FCOA. Women's Cross Country, Softball, and Women's Tennis are not included in the probation so it's not the 'entire program'.
05-08-2017 05:46 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
Isn't this cute? All these Dakota fans convincing themselves they are not in the Midwest living on the Minnesota and Iowa borders, but in fact just a stroll from Pikes Place Market, and just down the street from Surf City. 01-wingedeagle

The Big Sky schools just got rid of North Dakota




Why would they want to rejoin them, and drop Weber State (strong in basketball, and recruiting on the west coast with Portland State and Sacramento State?

You do realize Pittsburgh is closer to the Dakota schools than Eastern Washington? You are talking about a 3 time zone conference, with trips up and over the mountains in the dead of winter? That is why the Big Sky was happy to see you leave.
05-08-2017 05:57 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
When you put it that way, maybe the Summit League could get NYIT to move up the rest of its athletic program since it already plays Division I baseball.
05-08-2017 06:05 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 05:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Isn't this cute? All these Dakota fans convincing themselves they are not in the Midwest living on the Minnesota and Iowa borders, but in fact just a stroll from Pikes Place Market, and just down the street from Surf City. 01-wingedeagle

The Big Sky schools just got rid of North Dakota




Why would they want to rejoin them, and drop Weber State (strong in basketball, and recruiting on the west coast with Portland State and Sacramento State?

You do realize Pittsburgh is closer to the Dakota schools than Eastern Washington? You are talking about a 3 time zone conference, with trips up and over the mountains in the dead of winter? That is why the Big Sky was happy to see you leave.
Yet the Montanas are the most expensive state to fly in and the other school fans aren't bitching about them. UND swept the biggest four championships and now the NAU and Sac St few fans want us out. UND could pay travel subsidies if worse came to worst, as much more was cut than the budget required. After all, we're in until at least 2020 for fb. You make presumptions about why we left that are simply unfounded. I dare you to find a news reference for them, but you cant.

The NAU / SUU travel partner situation is probably the worst in the USA, but that's shoved under the rug.

As nearly the furthest north DI school, Washington may be tied for furthest north, we knew we had to fly. Only the rest of the Dakotas and the Gophers are within state mandated bus distances. That is one of the prime reasons that DI took so long.

Pittsburgh is not where UND alumni congregate, except as Penguins teammates. Phoenix, Denver and Minneapolis are the places outside the state.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 06:27 PM by NoDak.)
05-08-2017 06:11 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #73
Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 02:00 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  The Montanas and Idaho are in a unique position. They don't look anything like the rest of the conference they're in (sans North Dakota, for now). They want to keep touch with the west coast recruiting grounds. But they also know academics and like-minded goals matter: You are the company you keep.

But their unique position is also one of sparse population and remote location. Folks won't come begging to them; they must make their own way, their own future.

And who better to do that with but with another group of schools that have many of the same issues.

This "northern FBS future" could meet all of that for them (and the Dakotas). They could play their non-conference games westward looking. They'd be with a peer group of academic flagship (state name) schools.


cal poly and uc davis are better academically than anything in the dakotas


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(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 06:45 PM by billings.)
05-08-2017 06:43 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 06:43 PM)billings Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 02:00 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  The Montanas and Idaho are in a unique position. They don't look anything like the rest of the conference they're in (sans North Dakota, for now). They want to keep touch with the west coast recruiting grounds. But they also know academics and like-minded goals matter: You are the company you keep.

But their unique position is also one of sparse population and remote location. Folks won't come begging to them; they must make their own way, their own future.

And who better to do that with but with another group of schools that have many of the same issues.

This "northern FBS future" could meet all of that for them (and the Dakotas). They could play their non-conference games westward looking. They'd be with a peer group of academic flagship (state name) schools.


cal poly and uc davies are better academically than anything in the dakotas

And they show no indication of moving entirely to the Big Sky or moving up except in the very long term. UC Davis is by far a better research and professional school, no argument there. But UC Davis has been almost a complete disaster at DI.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 07:14 PM by NoDak.)
05-08-2017 06:49 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 06:43 PM)billings Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 02:00 PM)The Sicatoka Wrote:  The Montanas and Idaho are in a unique position. They don't look anything like the rest of the conference they're in (sans North Dakota, for now). They want to keep touch with the west coast recruiting grounds. But they also know academics and like-minded goals matter: You are the company you keep.

But their unique position is also one of sparse population and remote location. Folks won't come begging to them; they must make their own way, their own future.

And who better to do that with but with another group of schools that have many of the same issues.

This "northern FBS future" could meet all of that for them (and the Dakotas). They could play their non-conference games westward looking. They'd be with a peer group of academic flagship (state name) schools.


cal poly and uc davis are better academically than anything in the dakotas


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And both are part timers in the BSC who would jump if there was a more western based FCS conference available. I still think if there are big changes, it will be the WAC adding FCS FB. If that happens the BSC loses, at a minimum the two Davis, Poly, Sac State, SUU and possibly NAU.
05-08-2017 07:11 PM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 05:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Isn't this cute? All these Dakota fans convincing themselves they are not in the Midwest living on the Minnesota and Iowa borders, but in fact just a stroll from Pikes Place Market, and just down the street from Surf City. 01-wingedeagle

The Big Sky schools just got rid of North Dakota




Why would they want to rejoin them, and drop Weber State (strong in basketball, and recruiting on the west coast with Portland State and Sacramento State?

You do realize Pittsburgh is closer to the Dakota schools than Eastern Washington? You are talking about a 3 time zone conference, with trips up and over the mountains in the dead of winter? That is why the Big Sky was happy to see you leave.

And the MWC would love to get rid of San Jose. By the way, are you not the one who stated that SDSU and NDSU have the same resources available as UMKC and Omaha? That comment alone, and the fact that your willing to admit you cheer for SJSU is enough to discount everything you have to say, about any subject.
05-08-2017 07:14 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #77
Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 07:14 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 05:57 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Isn't this cute? All these Dakota fans convincing themselves they are not in the Midwest living on the Minnesota and Iowa borders, but in fact just a stroll from Pikes Place Market, and just down the street from Surf City. 01-wingedeagle

The Big Sky schools just got rid of North Dakota




Why would they want to rejoin them, and drop Weber State (strong in basketball, and recruiting on the west coast with Portland State and Sacramento State?

You do realize Pittsburgh is closer to the Dakota schools than Eastern Washington? You are talking about a 3 time zone conference, with trips up and over the mountains in the dead of winter? That is why the Big Sky was happy to see you leave.

And the MWC would love to get rid of San Jose. By the way, are you not the one who stated that SDSU and NDSU have the same resources available as UMKC and Omaha? That comment alone, and the fact that your willing to admit you cheer for SJSU is enough to discount everything you have to say, about any subject.


mwc fans maybe but in reality most have no issue with sjsu as there is no one in the footprint of the pacific to replace them with


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05-08-2017 07:45 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
SDSU should be more clarify. There are 2 of them at the D1 level.
05-08-2017 07:48 PM
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RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-08-2017 07:48 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  SDSU should be more clarify. There are 2 of them at the D1 level.

It's a Summit League thread. Not that hard to figure who they are talking about.
05-08-2017 07:58 PM
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RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
There are more people in the county of Santa Clara County than the two Dakotas combined. 40% more college degrees, 250% more graduate degrees, and roughly 7x the net worth. As for sports we have more natives from the county in the NFL, NBA and MLB than the Dakotas and it's not even close. The Dakotas schools are a bunch of nothing in the Central time zone farmlands of the Great Plains, closer to Pennsylvania and Tennessee than to Arizona, Nevada, California, Washington or Oregon. These are facts. And yet you dare call yourselves westerners when you never to a step on the Oregon trail.

Your favorite sport is Hockey, not surfing. Asian cuisine and Seafood (from the oceans) are not on your menu. You have no deserts. There is nothing about you that is western. You might as well start claiming you are southerners or Texans. The reality is Des Moines and Minneapolis are your nearest metros and they define you.
05-08-2017 09:52 PM
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