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Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #21
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
The Dakota 4, Omaha, and U of Denver are a solid core.

Almost zero percent chance that EWU, Idaho, and Montana's leave the Big Sky to join up with that core, or that core is invited to join the Big Sky. They just begged UND to leave, after that failed experiment!


So what's a more realistic, and better scenario, to get to at least eight teams around that core?

1) no-brainer: get UMKC back, to pair with Omaha.

2) it would be nice to get a travel partner for Denver.

Who are the possible (though not necessarily likely) candidates?

- No Colorado is an obvious one. Lots of history with the Dakota schools from the old DII NCC conf. Not too far from Denver (though not right next door)
- Metro State is a DII school in Denver. However, I think the political and financial reality for this school means this is probably impossible
- Colorado College is a DIII private school in Colorado Springs, about an hour south of Denver. This suggestion is really just from the perspective that it would be great to have as many NCHC hockey programs together under the Summit banner, so they can really foster competition and rivalry with each other in multiple sports. Probably also not realistic, though CC does have a largish endowment. The transition time would be eight years before it could move from DII to DI, since it would be coming from outside DII.

3) expansion into Minnesota

The obvious candidates are the NCHC schools in the state: Duluth and St Cloud. Both are already DII, so no eight year period. Both could follow the precedent set by Omaha to move from DII to DI.



So what about the other four teams currently in the Summit?

- Fort Wayne and IU-Indy I would suggest for the Horizon League
- WIU, probably stay in the MVFC and see if it can get into the OVC for non-football
- Oral Roberts, don't care
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 11:10 AM by MplsBison.)
05-07-2017 11:08 AM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
If the Summit lost one Northern Colorado makes sense . As a travel partner for Denver unless Denver objects.

Losing just the Indiana schools might be enough to get the BSC schools to switch.
The Summit would still have eight highly ranked schools.
Taking the top three BSC schools plus EWU (good football).
Making the conference less directional comparable to the MWC.
Both would be good with a few directional/city schools that are regionally ranked.

Big Sky would have seven nine in football.
Seattle would be a good pick up or CSBU .
Travel might be better if the right schools are added.
Webber St-ISU
PSU- Seattle
UNC- ICU
SUU- NAU
SAC st- CSBU
easier cheaper travel
Nine in football perfect eight game schedule
Ten in basketball for eighteen game schedule.
Basketball tournament in Vegas






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05-07-2017 11:20 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
Personally, I'd love a MAC-style FBS conference made up of the Dakotas, Montanas and Idaho, but I get the impression that the Dakotas are more interested in looking east and south than west, the Montanas are proven cowards, and our president is a *******. So I don't see how this gets traction.
05-07-2017 12:24 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
I don't think the Summit is attractive to the Montanas and Idaho.

I think the Summit's future is as a northern league but not a northern league that stretches to the Pacific Northwest.

When the next member departs the Dakota 4, Omaha, and Denver will hold a super majority and be able to guide the future of the league. I see future members being schools like Minn St Mankato, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, N Colorado, and UMKC.

If there is a dramatic change among the Montanas and Idaho I would expect something more along the lines of the Northern Big Sky schools seperating from the less prestigious southern ones.
05-07-2017 01:27 PM
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Shox Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
The perfect school for this is Wyoming. They would drop football out of spite before doing it but they would fit all sports very well. The other that would work well and balance out Denver is Air Force Olympics if football went to the American.
05-07-2017 01:38 PM
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NDBison Offline
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Post: #26
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
The only way these schools would ever get on the same page is if for some reason they wanted to play FBS football.

But this conference makes a lot of sense, the west could use a MAC level conference.
05-07-2017 02:14 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 02:14 PM)NDBison Wrote:  The only way these schools would ever get on the same page is if for some reason they wanted to play FBS football.

But this conference makes a lot of sense, the west could use a MAC level conference.

I'd like to see another FBS conference in the west but I don't think that there is a clear path to create a new conference.
05-07-2017 02:23 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I don't think the Summit is attractive to the Montanas and Idaho.

I think the Summit's future is as a northern league but not a northern league that stretches to the Pacific Northwest.

When the next member departs the Dakota 4, Omaha, and Denver will hold a super majority and be able to guide the future of the league. I see future members being schools like Minn St Mankato, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, N Colorado, and UMKC.

If there is a dramatic change among the Montanas and Idaho I would expect something more along the lines of the Northern Big Sky schools seperating from the less prestigious southern ones.
It would take a pretty serious change in direction, but the Summit League could take over the NCHC. Adding Minnesota-Duluth and Saint Cloud State would give the Summit five for hockey. Colorado College would have no other option but to follow as a hockey-only member. Western Michigan and Miami would probably fall in line as well. The Minnesota schools could drop football and add men's soccer as part of their Division I transition. The schools that have baseball would be under no obligation to continue sponsoring that sport as well.
05-07-2017 02:52 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 02:52 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I don't think the Summit is attractive to the Montanas and Idaho.

I think the Summit's future is as a northern league but not a northern league that stretches to the Pacific Northwest.

When the next member departs the Dakota 4, Omaha, and Denver will hold a super majority and be able to guide the future of the league. I see future members being schools like Minn St Mankato, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, N Colorado, and UMKC.

If there is a dramatic change among the Montanas and Idaho I would expect something more along the lines of the Northern Big Sky schools seperating from the less prestigious southern ones.
It would take a pretty serious change in direction, but the Summit League could take over the NCHC. Adding Minnesota-Duluth and Saint Cloud State would give the Summit five for hockey. Colorado College would have no other option but to follow as a hockey-only member. Western Michigan and Miami would probably fall in line as well. The Minnesota schools could drop football and add men's soccer as part of their Division I transition. The schools that have baseball would be under no obligation to continue sponsoring that sport as well.

I agree. Taking over the NCHC should be a goal of the Summit going forward and I think the 3 current hockey schools will use the power of their votes to achieve it. I guess the big question is would the Minnesota hockey schools be able to bring their football up to FCS?
05-07-2017 03:03 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
Lol. More Fantasy from NoDak
05-07-2017 03:22 PM
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NDBison Offline
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Post: #31
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 03:03 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 02:52 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 01:27 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  I don't think the Summit is attractive to the Montanas and Idaho.

I think the Summit's future is as a northern league but not a northern league that stretches to the Pacific Northwest.

When the next member departs the Dakota 4, Omaha, and Denver will hold a super majority and be able to guide the future of the league. I see future members being schools like Minn St Mankato, Minn-Duluth, St Cloud St, N Colorado, and UMKC.

If there is a dramatic change among the Montanas and Idaho I would expect something more along the lines of the Northern Big Sky schools seperating from the less prestigious southern ones.
It would take a pretty serious change in direction, but the Summit League could take over the NCHC. Adding Minnesota-Duluth and Saint Cloud State would give the Summit five for hockey. Colorado College would have no other option but to follow as a hockey-only member. Western Michigan and Miami would probably fall in line as well. The Minnesota schools could drop football and add men's soccer as part of their Division I transition. The schools that have baseball would be under no obligation to continue sponsoring that sport as well.

I agree. Taking over the NCHC should be a goal of the Summit going forward and I think the 3 current hockey schools will use the power of their votes to achieve it. I guess the big question is would the Minnesota hockey schools be able to bring their football up to FCS?

Zero chance any of them could make FCS football work or at least scholarship football. They would need to go the Omaha route.
05-07-2017 05:21 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
If one of the three of W Ill, IPFW, IUPUI leave, the other two will go too. Even if it's the Atlantic Sun. Face it, travel to Florida is much cheaper that to the Dakotas and much better for recruiting and alumni interest. W Ill and IPFW have been facing major budget crisis, so that's further ammunition to make a change. The IP's have been itching to leave since they got Summit membership, or in the case of W Ill, every founding member has left them. W Ill ideally wants to protect its membership in the MVFC, nothing else much matters. They have never been to a dance in almost 50 years at DI.

When those three go, getting a DII moveups doesnt do anything for the Summit, as the transitions takes too long. UND won't join a six team league unless reinforcements from established DI's are coming. UND will be sitting in the cat bird seat, much to the chagrin of the other Dakotas.

If UMKC repents and comes back, the WAC is suddenly in trouble. Either way one conference loses its autobid unless the Big Sky gives up schools.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 05:39 PM by NoDak.)
05-07-2017 05:33 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #33
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 01:57 AM)DawgNBama Wrote:  I don't think the Montanas, and definitely not EWU would move to this Summit League without Portland State. Portland State is in a big metro, and is in a city with an international airport. I believe the football team plays in the MLS Portland Timbers stadium, so it's nothing to sneeze at, IMO.

The Portland stadium is being expanded but the Portland soccer teams, the Timbers and the lower division Thorns want the Vikings out. PSU has played to sparse crowds in a HS stadium in suburban Hillsboro before for renovation and scheduling reasons. PSU and Sac St have brought practically nothing to the Big Sky but problems. UND just swept the leagues four major championships, and we're only getting better in those four which aren't even our best sport, and we were shown the door as a travel problem. Most of the Big Sky is not interested in excellence. Idaho and the Montanas may be the exceptions.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 06:03 PM by NoDak.)
05-07-2017 05:55 PM
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Fighting Muskie Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
Here's something else to ponder for the Summit: do you seek out Northern Colorado to replace IUPUI(or whoever)?

It's your 6th football school and you can takeover the MVFC.

Denver gets a travel partner.
05-07-2017 06:51 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #35
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 03:22 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  Lol. More Fantasy from NoDak

Always Dreaming won the Kentucky Derby yesterday. Sometimes dreamers win in the end. Just takes patience and believe or not faith. Dreams and interpretations were a frequent occurrence in the Scriptures.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 07:18 PM by NoDak.)
05-07-2017 07:05 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 01:38 PM)Shox Wrote:  The perfect school for this is Wyoming. They would drop football out of spite before doing it but they would fit all sports very well. The other that would work well and balance out Denver is Air Force Olympics if football went to the American.

The Shockers could be a fb affiliate for a time if/when they get it going. Clearly, they didn't want to incubate a fb program in the MVFC.

Wyoming has an advantage in that it is close to the Front Range. The MWC would have to fallook apart first. But it would be a very nice add, as they are all similar flagship and academic schools.
05-07-2017 07:33 PM
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billings Offline
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Post: #37
Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
montana schools will never give up playing in the northwest and cali. that is where they recruit. you can tell the whole wac thing is dead with this new scheme lol


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(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 08:01 PM by billings.)
05-07-2017 07:59 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #38
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 07:59 PM)billings Wrote:  montana schools will never give up playing in the northwest and cali. that is where they recruit. you can tell the whole wac thing is dead with this new scheme lol


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So in your eyes the Montanas are married to the mediocrity of Portland St and Sac St. Those are such big names in their own cities, not. Montana recruits heavily the LA metro in basketball. Guess Sac St and NAU get a lot of publicity there. 07-coffee3

The WAC would work but there are fewer moving parts and Liberty has proven that WAC membership isn't needed for FBS.
(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 08:09 PM by NoDak.)
05-07-2017 08:07 PM
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billings Offline
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Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 08:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 07:59 PM)billings Wrote:  montana schools will never give up playing in the northwest and cali. that is where they recruit. you can tell the whole wac thing is dead with this new scheme lol


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So in your eyes the Montanas are married to the mediocrity of Portland St and Sac St. Those are such big names in their own cities, not. Montana recruits heavily the LA metro in basketball. Guess Sac St and NAU get a lot of publicity there. 07-coffee3

The WAC would work but there are fewer moving parts and Liberty has proven that WAC membership isn't needed for FBS.


yep. large alumni base in portland, spokane, slc (weber state) and nor cal with direct air connections. zero alumni base or direct flights in/to the dakotas. aint happening. huge hit on travel and fan base along with recruiting. keep dreaming. montana fans are celebrating the loss of und to avoid that travel mess for oly sports


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(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 10:09 PM by billings.)
05-07-2017 09:55 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #40
RE: Will The Summit League be reformed as a Northern League??
(05-07-2017 09:55 PM)billings Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:07 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 07:59 PM)billings Wrote:  montana schools will never give up playing in the northwest and cali. that is where they recruit. you can tell the whole wac thing is dead with this new scheme lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So in your eyes the Montanas are married to the mediocrity of Portland St and Sac St. Those are such big names in their own cities, not. Montana recruits heavily the LA metro in basketball. Guess Sac St and NAU get a lot of publicity there. 07-coffee3

The WAC would work but there are fewer moving parts and Liberty has proven that WAC membership isn't needed for FBS.


yep. large alumni base in portland, spokane, slc (weber state) and nor cal with direct air connections. zero alumni base or direct flights in/to the dakotas. aint happening. huge hit on travel and fan base along with recruiting. keep dreaming
Might as well join an NAIA league if that kind of exposure is tactical to the Montanas.

Last year, PSU attracted 728 and 705 total fans to their Montana and Montana St mbb games. An awful lot of Montanans showed up to make it worth it. 01-ncaabbs
05-07-2017 10:09 PM
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