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WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #21
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-07-2017 08:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to see the G4/5 start a new championship outside the NCAA and get a conference with JMU, VCU (If they add football obviously), Richmond, Charlotte, Marshall, Delaware, Lehigh (or another PA school), App State, Towson. Kind of an FCS/CUSA mix. Or maybe just drop back. The future isn't where we are.

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Might as well be FCS then and have inferior product.
05-07-2017 08:59 PM
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RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-07-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to see the G4/5 start a new championship outside the NCAA and get a conference with JMU, VCU (If they add football obviously), Richmond, Charlotte, Marshall, Delaware, Lehigh (or another PA school), App State, Towson. Kind of an FCS/CUSA mix. Or maybe just drop back. The future isn't where we are.

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Might as well be FCS then and have inferior product.
Inferior how? You don't think JMU, Richmond, and Delaware are better than F_U, UTSA, and UNT?

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05-07-2017 09:02 PM
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Cyniclone Online
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Post: #23
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-07-2017 09:02 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to see the G4/5 start a new championship outside the NCAA and get a conference with JMU, VCU (If they add football obviously), Richmond, Charlotte, Marshall, Delaware, Lehigh (or another PA school), App State, Towson. Kind of an FCS/CUSA mix. Or maybe just drop back. The future isn't where we are.

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Might as well be FCS then and have inferior product.
Inferior how? You don't think JMU, Richmond, and Delaware are better than F_U, UTSA, and UNT?

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Objectively, no, at least not over the course of multiple years. Maybe last year's JMU beats FIU and FAU, and possibly North Texas and UTSA depending on whether they play them, but I don't think they sniff bowl eligibility if you took that team and gave them, say, FAU's schedule. We're just a lot more familiar with JMU and Richmond than many of the CUSA teams.
05-07-2017 09:11 PM
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Gilesfan Online
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Post: #24
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
Better at what? Certainly not football. Richmond is better at basketball, the rest of that group are nothing important.

But that proposed conference has like 3 decent football teams and 3 decent basketball teams.
05-07-2017 09:19 PM
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Post: #25
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-07-2017 09:11 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:02 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to see the G4/5 start a new championship outside the NCAA and get a conference with JMU, VCU (If they add football obviously), Richmond, Charlotte, Marshall, Delaware, Lehigh (or another PA school), App State, Towson. Kind of an FCS/CUSA mix. Or maybe just drop back. The future isn't where we are.

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Might as well be FCS then and have inferior product.
Inferior how? You don't think JMU, Richmond, and Delaware are better than F_U, UTSA, and UNT?

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Objectively, no, at least not over the course of multiple years. Maybe last year's JMU beats FIU and FAU, and possibly North Texas and UTSA depending on whether they play them, but I don't think they sniff bowl eligibility if you took that team and gave them, say, FAU's schedule. We're just a lot more familiar with JMU and Richmond than many of the CUSA teams.
If they had the extra scholarships, is there any doubt who'd be better?

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05-08-2017 05:09 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #26
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-07-2017 09:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Better at what? Certainly not football. Richmond is better at basketball, the rest of that group are nothing important.

But that proposed conference has like 3 decent football teams and 3 decent basketball teams.
Thanks for the veiled compliment, though it wasn't your intention. The conferrence is pretty well balanced.

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05-08-2017 05:11 AM
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Post: #27
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-08-2017 05:09 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:02 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:14 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  I'd like to see the G4/5 start a new championship outside the NCAA and get a conference with JMU, VCU (If they add football obviously), Richmond, Charlotte, Marshall, Delaware, Lehigh (or another PA school), App State, Towson. Kind of an FCS/CUSA mix. Or maybe just drop back. The future isn't where we are.

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Might as well be FCS then and have inferior product.
Inferior how? You don't think JMU, Richmond, and Delaware are better than F_U, UTSA, and UNT?

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Objectively, no, at least not over the course of multiple years. Maybe last year's JMU beats FIU and FAU, and possibly North Texas and UTSA depending on whether they play them, but I don't think they sniff bowl eligibility if you took that team and gave them, say, FAU's schedule. We're just a lot more familiar with JMU and Richmond than many of the CUSA teams.
If they had the extra scholarships, is there any doubt who'd be better?

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IF? Let's play the hypothetical game.

What IF Lane Kiffin gets really comfortable at FAU and decides to stay for an extended period of time? They will probably end up being pretty good.

Same goes with Butch Davis. What IF he likes FIU and hangs around? They will end up being pretty good.

You started the "what if" game.
05-08-2017 07:35 AM
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Post: #28
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze


05-08-2017 07:50 AM
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Post: #29
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-08-2017 07:35 AM)757ODU Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 05:09 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:02 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:59 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Might as well be FCS then and have inferior product.
Inferior how? You don't think JMU, Richmond, and Delaware are better than F_U, UTSA, and UNT?

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Objectively, no, at least not over the course of multiple years. Maybe last year's JMU beats FIU and FAU, and possibly North Texas and UTSA depending on whether they play them, but I don't think they sniff bowl eligibility if you took that team and gave them, say, FAU's schedule. We're just a lot more familiar with JMU and Richmond than many of the CUSA teams.
If they had the extra scholarships, is there any doubt who'd be better?

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IF? Let's play the hypothetical game.

What IF Lane Kiffin gets really comfortable at FAU and decides to stay for an extended period of time? They will probably end up being pretty good.

Same goes with Butch Davis. What IF he likes FIU and hangs around? They will end up being pretty good.

You started the "what if" game.

The "what if" is valid. Why doesn't schools like Richmond, JMU, and Delaware move up and why doesn't VCU and GMU start football? The answer is because their options, if any, are the Sunbelt, MAC and CUSA and we see what that does to a budget, especially now that the media money has dried up! The problem is nobody around here is going to compete for championships with Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. It needs to be regional and we need our own championship.
05-08-2017 07:56 AM
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Post: #30
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-08-2017 07:56 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:35 AM)757ODU Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 05:09 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:02 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  Inferior how? You don't think JMU, Richmond, and Delaware are better than F_U, UTSA, and UNT?

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Objectively, no, at least not over the course of multiple years. Maybe last year's JMU beats FIU and FAU, and possibly North Texas and UTSA depending on whether they play them, but I don't think they sniff bowl eligibility if you took that team and gave them, say, FAU's schedule. We're just a lot more familiar with JMU and Richmond than many of the CUSA teams.
If they had the extra scholarships, is there any doubt who'd be better?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

IF? Let's play the hypothetical game.

What IF Lane Kiffin gets really comfortable at FAU and decides to stay for an extended period of time? They will probably end up being pretty good.

Same goes with Butch Davis. What IF he likes FIU and hangs around? They will end up being pretty good.

You started the "what if" game.

The "what if" is valid. Why doesn't schools like Richmond, JMU, and Delaware move up and why doesn't VCU and GMU start football? The answer is because their options, if any, are the Sunbelt, MAC and CUSA and we see what that does to a budget, especially now that the media money has dried up! The problem is nobody around here is going to compete for championships with Alabama, Clemson, and Ohio State. It needs to be regional and we need our own championship.

I think everyone should get a trophy at the end of the year. Who needs our own championship? Just make everyone the winner.
05-08-2017 08:02 AM
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Post: #31
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
I think going back to any ECAC South/CAA/FCS arrangement for ODU would be a colossal double fail. It would feel just a hair better than going back to Division II. Could not imagine that Marshall would want any part of that proposed league in this thread. And we shouldn't either. But guess we will see over time.

Hopefully there are a lot of ODU fans that still agree.
05-08-2017 09:10 AM
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Post: #32
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-08-2017 09:10 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I think going back to any ECAC South/CAA/FCS arrangement for ODU would be a colossal double fail. It would feel just a hair better than going back to Division II. Could not imagine that Marshall would want any part of that proposed league in this thread. And we shouldn't either. But guess we will see over time.

Hopefully there are a lot of ODU fans that still agree.

We are in a situation where nobody can go to away games and conference tournaments, we get rewarded for a great football season by getting a weekday bowl game in the Bahamas against a school nobody knows anything about, we have a 1/14th chance of making the NCAAs in basketball, and due to a combination of debt and travel expenses we cannot afford to hire quality coaches despite donations pouring in at record pace. This is not sustainable, regardless of what Marshall does. A couple of bad football seasons or a recession that dries up donations and it is over. Can someone point to the benefits we have reaped by joining CUSA? At the time, it might have been the right move with ECU there and nobody could have known how bad it would be 5 years later, but at some point something is going to give.
05-08-2017 09:30 AM
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Post: #33
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
All that has a chance to be true. I don't believe it, but it has a chance.

I think the real question is other than driving to games against inferior competition, how many of those observations change with another move down to play against smaller schools in the state of VA?

I have no illusion about what the P5 has done to everyone's chances for a National Championship, but if we're playing against competition that has higher level talent on it and lots of alumni/fans are paying to keep us there, why is that so bad? It might be unsustainable but I think FCS will still close the doors before the G5 (I admittedly could be wrong though).

And no, I don't think JMU (even with Khalid Adbullah) would be running through CUSA like he did over every smaller opponent that they played. No chance. I shudder to think what Ray Lawry's numbers would have been if we were still in FCS playing schools with half our size and resources. He would have run for 2k IMO.
05-08-2017 11:05 AM
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Post: #34
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-08-2017 11:05 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  All that has a chance to be true. I don't believe it, but it has a chance.

I think the real question is other than driving to games against inferior competition, how many of those observations change with another move down to play against smaller schools in the state of VA?

I have no illusion about what the P5 has done to everyone's chances for a National Championship, but if we're playing against competition that has higher level talent on it and lots of alumni/fans are paying to keep us there, why is that so bad? It might be unsustainable but I think FCS will still close the doors before the G5 (I admittedly could be wrong though).

And no, I don't think JMU (even with Khalid Adbullah) would be running through CUSA like he did over every smaller opponent that they played. No chance. I shudder to think what Ray Lawry's numbers would have been if we were still in FCS playing schools with half our size and resources. He would have run for 2k IMO.

I don't disagree with any of this. I just wish there was a way for other sports to be in other conferences. I don't think the expenses, travel, and low quality competition outside football are worth it just because football competition is better. I'd rather save the expenses and use the money to pay more to have better coaching. I also think a regional conference would generate more interest for regional TV deals and ultimately would likely make more on that. I would rather some of those other FCS schools move up and join the regional conference than move back down. I would even be satisfied staying in CUSA football and having other sports in the CAA, A10, or something new. My problem isn't with football, I am actually satisfied with it. My problem is that every other sport suffers, not due to football, but due to the expenses and lack of revenue associated with being a part of CUSA.

And I say that admittedly in retrospect as someone that supported the move at the time.
05-08-2017 11:30 AM
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Post: #35
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
Problem is that there are no guarantees in better coaching even with a move. I'd argue that we have good coaches even in CUSA. We have some duds too and ODU's group is not excluded from that. But even with a regional league, you won't retain good coaches once they've proven they are good.

I just want to win. I've grown so tired of complaints about the league we're in. If we were winning, I'm not sure there would be much talk about the far flung geography or fiscal problems of flying Olympic sport participants around. It's expensive, but that's why many of us choose to donate--to help defray some expense. Even the CAA has to move Olympic sport kids from New England down to the lowlands of NC and SC. They can bus, but that is really no better for the teams.

As far as any regional schools moving up, there is only one more institution in VA that is seen in the FBS puzzle. And that picture is very fuzzy because of many reasons that ODUAlum78 just loves to talk about.

I say the most telling data point on JMU's appetite for moving up was evident way back in 2007 when their AD announced dropping 10 sports against a mountain of Title IX bad press. They built that half a stadium but are just not on our level.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/co...over_N.htm
05-08-2017 12:50 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #36
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
(05-08-2017 12:50 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Problem is that there are no guarantees in better coaching even with a move. I'd argue that we have good coaches even in CUSA. We have some duds too and ODU's group is not excluded from that. But even with a regional league, you won't retain good coaches once they've proven they are good.

I just want to win. I've grown so tired of complaints about the league we're in. If we were winning, I'm not sure there would be much talk about the far flung geography or fiscal problems of flying Olympic sport participants around. It's expensive, but that's why many of us choose to donate--to help defray some expense. Even the CAA has to move Olympic sport kids from New England down to the lowlands of NC and SC. They can bus, but that is really no better for the teams.

As far as any regional schools moving up, there is only one more institution in VA that is seen in the FBS puzzle. And that picture is very fuzzy because of many reasons that ODUAlum78 just loves to talk about.

I say the most telling data point on JMU's appetite for moving up was evident way back in 2007 when their AD announced dropping 10 sports against a mountain of Title IX bad press. They built that half a stadium but are just not on our level.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/co...over_N.htm
The problem is, the current landscape of college basketball makes sustained success very difficult if you aren't paying AT LEAST $1M per year. We are not even paying half of that.

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05-08-2017 06:07 PM
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Post: #37
RE: WTF: CUSA Never Ceases to Amaze
It's time to lock all G5 Commissioners, Presidents, AD's and revenue sport coaches in a room with no food or water and force them to think ahead and map out the next 15 years. Make 'em share a white board and give each school one dry erase marker.

This system cannot be sustained. The P5 is headed for tough times too but at least they have money in the bank and donors to fill any holes.
(This post was last modified: 05-11-2017 11:31 AM by Quagmire.)
05-11-2017 11:30 AM
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