(05-08-2017 09:22 AM)green Wrote:  

(05-07-2017 12:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Garbage!

And, actually, you do have to show ID, but then again picking a fight with a cop over a lawful order and claiming to be a victim is just so much fun.

You’ve probably seen old movies where the protagonist is approached by a Nazi or Soviet guard and ordered to “show your papers.” We know that’s a tell-tale sign of a police state. So if police ever ask you to show ID during your travels, it’s natural to feel violated.

In a free society, citizens who are minding their own business are not obligated to “show their papers” to police. In fact, in the United States there’s no law requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind.
-- flexyourrights

I'M IN THE RIGHT

Negative...

To expand a bit on what Rath wrote, a cop who is investigating a crime can ask for your ID and the Constitutional floor is merely that a copy feel that there is crime "afoot."

The question on wether or not you are required to produce if asked and required to carry are two separate issues.

They can ask, and there is no requirement to produce that which you do not honestly have.

Being asked by an officer for your ID is not a sign of a police state. Hyperbolic statement's don't further the argument.

(05-08-2017 11:53 AM)green Wrote:  

(05-08-2017 10:52 AM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  About 25 states or so have Stop and Identify statutes on the books. Can't request ID for no reason. But all they need is to have some reasonable suspicion or be in the process of investigating an offense that has occurred, will occur or may occur. It's very broad. And I don't need to tell you about how broad reasonable suspicion is for any cop that wants to push things. That flex your rights site has as much wrong as it does right. It's largely written by the Johnny Cochran crowd I alluded to earlier who usually end up feeling they were right and got a ticket by some Bad Leutenant for carrying a one hitter in their pocket.

Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada is a United States Supreme Court case in which the Court held that statutes requiring suspects to disclose their names during police investigations did not violate the Fourth Amendment if the statute first required reasonable and articulable suspicion of criminal involvement.

however, the Court left open the possibility that Fifth Amendment privilege might apply in a situation where there was a reasonable belief that giving a name could be incriminating.
-- wiki

only required to divulge your name assuming it's a terry stop ...

CONTROLLING AUTHORITY

Just for fun I Lexised that case.

Your summation is not completely accurate.

Quoting...

"Hiibel argues that his conviction cannot stand because the officer's conduct violated his Fourth Amendment rights. We disagree."

"Asking questions is an essential part of police investigations. In the ordinary course a police officer is free to ask a person for identification without implicating the Fourth Amendment. "[I]nterrogation relating to one's identity or a request for identification by the police does not, by itself, constitute a Fourth Amendment seizure.""

(185)

That's what those flex your rights type guys tend to do....put out partial info to people who want bias confirmation and who then end up being told by their attorneys that they are screwed and to just pay the possession ticket were dumb enough to earn.

Am I being detained?

AMIBEINGDETAINED!

(05-08-2017 03:37 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  That's what those flex your rights type guys tend to do....put out partial info to people who want bias confirmation and who then end up being told by their attorneys that they are screwed and to just pay the possession ticket were dumb enough to earn.

Agree 100%

The reason I find this kind of thing so objectionable is because it unfairly adds to the antagonistic relationship between police and the public.

Hyperbole based on incomplete and/or insufficient understanding is likely to get people hurt or killed that need not be.

I flew through Ft. Lauderdale on the way to the Orange Bowl one year. Heaviest drug interdiction I've ever seen at any airport. They even had dogs sniff the carry on before you walked down the jetway.

(05-08-2017 03:27 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(05-08-2017 09:22 AM)green Wrote:  

(05-07-2017 12:34 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  Garbage!

And, actually, you do have to show ID, but then again picking a fight with a cop over a lawful order and claiming to be a victim is just so much fun.

You’ve probably seen old movies where the protagonist is approached by a Nazi or Soviet guard and ordered to “show your papers.” We know that’s a tell-tale sign of a police state. So if police ever ask you to show ID during your travels, it’s natural to feel violated.

In a free society, citizens who are minding their own business are not obligated to “show their papers” to police. In fact, in the United States there’s no law requiring citizens to carry identification of any kind.
-- flexyourrights

I'M IN THE RIGHT

Negative...

To expand a bit on what Rath wrote, a cop who is investigating a crime can ask for your ID and the Constitutional floor is merely that a copy feel that there is crime "afoot."

The question on wether or not you are required to produce if asked and required to carry are two separate issues.

They can ask, and there is no requirement to produce that which you do not honestly have.

Being asked by an officer for your ID is not a sign of a police state. Hyperbolic statement's don't further the argument.

they can't coerce in order to produce something you do have ...

OR ELSE

(05-08-2017 03:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Am I being detained?

AMIBEINGDETAINED!

One of my friends had one of those one night on a traffic stop. Dude was soused and first "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" BS. When he refused to get out of the car they forcibly removed him. The "legal expert" was screaming as he was being cuffed "Am I being detained? Am I being detained?" to which my friend replied "No, you are being arrested." A little later in the video as they were enroute to the jail the guy kept saying "I know my rights" to which my fried replied "If you know them I wish you would make use of your right to remain silent."

Only fun I have ever had at an officer's expense...coming back from a depo in Cleveland I made the 5 hour drive home and got stopped at a DUI checkpoint after midnight...I was not in the mood

LEO: Where are you coming from this evening?

Me: Sorry, I don't see where that is any of your business.

LEO: Have you been drinking tonight?

Me: Maybe. Is it against the law to drink and drive?

LEO: Yes.

Me: No it's not, it's illegal to have a BAC of .1 or more. Want to ask a different question?

LEO: Have a good evening, sir.

(05-09-2017 05:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(05-08-2017 03:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Am I being detained?

AMIBEINGDETAINED!

One of my friends had one of those one night on a traffic stop. Dude was soused and first "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" BS. When he refused to get out of the car they forcibly removed him. The "legal expert" was screaming as he was being cuffed "Am I being detained? Am I being detained?" to which my friend replied "No, you are being arrested." A little later in the video as they were enroute to the jail the guy kept saying "I know my rights" to which my fried replied "If you know them I wish you would make use of your right to remain silent."

Hope that police office didn't try to book him in a station with a gold fringed flag. Those are only for Admiralty Courts!

Sovereign citizen videos on youtube are a guilty pleasure of mine. Oh, and Russian dashcam videos as well. Way too many hours sunk into those two.

(05-10-2017 09:22 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(05-09-2017 05:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(05-08-2017 03:39 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  Am I being detained?

AMIBEINGDETAINED!

One of my friends had one of those one night on a traffic stop. Dude was soused and first "I'm not driving, I'm traveling" BS. When he refused to get out of the car they forcibly removed him. The "legal expert" was screaming as he was being cuffed "Am I being detained? Am I being detained?" to which my friend replied "No, you are being arrested." A little later in the video as they were enroute to the jail the guy kept saying "I know my rights" to which my fried replied "If you know them I wish you would make use of your right to remain silent."

Hope that police office didn't try to book him in a station with a gold fringed flag. Those are only for Admiralty Courts!

Sovereign citizen videos on youtube are a guilty pleasure of mine. Oh, and Russian dashcam videos as well. Way too many hours sunk into those two.

I have actually seen a sovereign citizen in action in court. It's some of the most convoluted gibberish you could ever hope to hear. It makes absolutely no logical sense, but damnit, they sure are passionate about it.

You do have to be careful around them, though. Some of them can be pretty violent, especially towards law enforcement.

They are also paper terrorists.

I got seated on a jury for one of them. Complete gibberish. Like a whirling dervish explaining bikram yoga. After day 3 of it it loses its entertainment value.