From today's Milwaukee paper:

UWM considering move to Missouri Valley Conference

(04-26-2017 10:46 AM)MU88 Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 10:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Rothstein still thinks it's Valpo and Murray. Valpo the more likely (hunger games scenario?).

The RPI numbers just don't look good with Omaha (216, and a small budget) or Milwaukee (224), making either a high risk. Either would represent a big letdown from Belmont (RPI 66). I like what MVC follower suggested (paraphrasing), go to 11 for a year or two and let Omaha and Milwaukee prove which should be the 12th.

I dunno now. The MVC obviously will have to have another meeting to discuss and figure out who has the votes.

Milwaukee isn't much of a risk. Its advantages are: 1) it is the biggest market being considered; and 2) it makes a perfect travel companion for Loyola, which is only a bit over an hour away. Valpo would be a nice fit, but it is a pain in the butt for travel purposes since you need to fly into O'Hare. Murray State is a good program, but it is in a small media market. While the conference is familiar with Omaha, do you really want to invite a second tier team after Creighton left? Seems like admitting the conference is second rate.

The biggest problem with UWM is the idiot AD who has alienated the big money donors and drove the program into the ground with the way she handled the Jeter firing. For example, the guy whose name is on UWM's school of business just donated $5.5 million to Marquette. In any event, I think UWM would be a good fit in the Valley, clearly better than Omaha. That said, I think Valpo and Murray State are probably better fits. Interesting that UIC isn't in the final four. I guess Loyola didn't want another Chicago school in the conference.

If you're going to Valpo, you're probably going to fly into Midway that's 60 miles away (which is a little closer than O'Hare). It might not be as easy to travel to as UIC (which would be very quick from either O'Hare or Midway), but Valpo isn't in the hinterlands. Regardless, I don't think travel issues to Valpo are going to be a concern if the MVC is also looking at a school like Murray State. Valpo is way easier to get to by comparison.

(04-27-2017 10:24 AM)bluesox Wrote:  If I-Chicago ever gets an invite you would think Chicago would be the natural spot to host the tourney at DePaul new arena. Yet, that might be a reason they don't get an invite since some might want to keep it in st Louis

I think the conference tournament location is a red herring at least with respect to conference realignment.

As I've pointed out on my blog previously, the Chicago area specifically is a BIG deal in terms of getting students for most (if not all) of the MVC schools. That's the reality of enrollment trends these days. Whether that's enough for UIC to obtain an invite is an open question. Valpo brings more on-the-court success in a Chicagoland location (albeit on the fringes of the area and on the Indiana side that doesn't receive the same type of coverage). My gut is saying Valpo is the most likely addition to the MVC as of now. Any others are really dependent upon whether the MVC wants to go beyond 10. (I can't see them going to 11 and stopping. Odd numbers work when you're adding the likes of Penn State in the manner of the Big Ten or Notre Dame in the manner of the ACC, but that doesn't make sense for a league like the MVC. It seems like it's an expansion to 10 or 12.)

(04-27-2017 11:12 AM)MU88 Wrote:  From today's Milwaukee paper:

UWM considering move to Missouri Valley Conference

"UWM athletic director Amanda Braun referred all questions regarding a potential move to Missouri Valley Conference commissioner Doug Elgin."

You don't hear an AD referring questions to another conference's commissioner often.

Read somewhere UWM hasn't registered a top 93 RPI since Bruce Pearl 12 years ago. Can't find an RPI history site to see if that checks out. 1561 attendance, 3rd hoops option behind Marquette & Bucks in a city that isn't exactly large or a hoops hotbed.

Nice arena - bones are there - but bust alert is high.

(04-27-2017 11:46 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 11:12 AM)MU88 Wrote:  From today's Milwaukee paper:

UWM considering move to Missouri Valley Conference

"UWM athletic director Amanda Braun referred all questions regarding a potential move to Missouri Valley Conference commissioner Doug Elgin."

You don't hear an AD referring questions to another conference's commissioner often.

Read somewhere UWM hasn't registered a top 93 RPI since Bruce Pearl 12 years ago. Can't find an RPI history site to see if that checks out. 1561 attendance, 3rd hoops option behind Marquette & Bucks in a city that isn't exactly large or a hoops hotbed.

Nice arena - bones are there - but bust alert is high.

Iowa schools recruit the Milwaukee metro.

The figures for Milwaukee are dreadful this last year (third straight year of decline), and RPI 256 (5 year is only marginally better at 224)

MSOE 1,856
ETSU 626
UCI 379
SDSU 1,346
J'ville 1,473
WIU 893
Belmont 1,127

NKU 1,389
Wright St 1,402 // MLK Day ... boosts attendance
Cleve St 1,194
YSU 641
Valpo 2,267 // Good reasons to add Valpo, fans travel
UIC 1,622 // boost likely from Chicago fans
GB 2,626 // big instate rival game ... GB fans travel
UDM 1,273
Oak 1,227

games 16, total = 21,343 average = 1,334
(1,146 in games other than Valpo and Green bay)

The numbers from Green Bay and Valpo suggest the only reason you'd add them is driving range of North Chicago Alumni of other MVC schools can attend and find seats (LUC numbers indicate that doesn't really work). These numbers also indicate that UWM has to be winning consistently to draw crowds, and that is likely to not be often in the stiffer MVC. (Omaha is similar)

(04-27-2017 09:40 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UMKC deals with the same problems mentioned for the others in being overshadowed by a handful of schools.

UMKC has shown some progress, but they still have a long way to go. However, if they're adding Valpo and MSU, they may have to grab a western school to make some people happy. That's where Omaha and UMKC could come in to play.

I would buy that argument if UMKC was on the Kansas side of the river and had to compete with Kansas just down the road, let alone KSU or Wichita. As it is they only have to deal with Missouri and to a lesser extent Missouri State in other parts of the state and no NBA team. Kansas is a factor faintly only because they get media attention but few Missourians root for them because of the state rivalry pre-dating the Civil War, so UMKC could become something bigger if they ever became good.

changing conf gives a boast to atten, with new schools coming in.
i would imagine MVC has bigger allumni assoc in area
GB now OOC
where Wisc & Marq, little sisters of poor not helping anybody
Mill budget will be #2 in MVC, also helps with Chi BB tourn if change is made
you gotta higher the right coach

(04-27-2017 01:47 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The figures for Milwaukee are dreadful this last year (third straight year of decline), and RPI 256 (5 year is only marginally better at 224)

MSOE 1,856
ETSU 626
UCI 379
SDSU 1,346
J'ville 1,473
WIU 893
Belmont 1,127

NKU 1,389
Wright St 1,402 // MLK Day ... boosts attendance
Cleve St 1,194
YSU 641
Valpo 2,267 // Good reasons to add Valpo, fans travel
UIC 1,622 // boost likely from Chicago fans
GB 2,626 // big instate rival game ... GB fans travel
UDM 1,273
Oak 1,227

games 16, total = 21,343 average = 1,334
(1,146 in games other than Valpo and Green bay)

The numbers from Green Bay and Valpo suggest the only reason you'd add them is driving range of North Chicago Alumni of other MVC schools can attend and find seats (LUC numbers indicate that doesn't really work). These numbers also indicate that UWM has to be winning consistently to draw crowds, and that is likely to not be often in the stiffer MVC. (Omaha is similar)

Attendance st UWM dropped by 60+% last season because of the fiasco with the AD. They have been around 3000+ for the past few years, very similar to Valpo. Under normal circumstances, UWM would draw between 3000-3500 in average years. But, they have drawn as high as 5300 when the team was successful.

By the way, Milwaukee is a great bball town in a top 35 media market. In a metro area of just under 2 million, you have the Bucks drawing 16,000 a night and Marquette 13,000+ per game. Not many cities with an NBA team support D-1 hoops that well. With a huge alumni base, UWM would draw well if they would have some success on the court.

As for RPI, in the 12 years since Pearl, UWM has been in the top 150 6 times and twice in the top 100 (53 in 06 and 93 in 11). Over the same time period, Valpo has been under 100 7 times, but over 150 5 times. Murray State has been best of the three. Omaha has been in the top 220 once, 143 in 2016.

(04-27-2017 02:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 09:40 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UMKC deals with the same problems mentioned for the others in being overshadowed by a handful of schools.

UMKC has shown some progress, but they still have a long way to go. However, if they're adding Valpo and MSU, they may have to grab a western school to make some people happy. That's where Omaha and UMKC could come in to play.

I would buy that argument if UMKC was on the Kansas side of the river and had to compete with Kansas just down the road, let alone KSU or Wichita. As it is they only have to deal with Missouri and to a lesser extent Missouri State in other parts of the state and no NBA team. Kansas is a factor faintly only because they get media attention but few Missourians root for them because of the state rivalry pre-dating the Civil War, so UMKC could become something bigger if they ever became good.

Nearly half the population of the Kansas City metro area is in the state of Kansas. If you only counted those living in the state of Missouri, Kansas City would not even be one of the 50 largest metro areas in the USA.

Nothing against Milwaukee. But what people look at is the recent situation. And that is awful for Milwaukee. The fact that you have to dig into the deeper past, and make excuses for bad recent numbers and the recent compliance problem simply says to any examining conference it's probably a better strategy to wait a few years and see if Milwaukee gets it's house in order and starts delivering numbers that work.

From what I have heard Milwaukee is not in the running for a 2017-18 invite anyway, They would be considered for 2018-19. Which means Panther fans had better find their way back into the Arena or you can kiss the MVC goodbye.

My point is that they have a shot at carving a niche. I conceded that Kansas has a presence there in the media because of the Kansas side but as history has noted, Missourians don't like much anything Kansas. Therefore, a good UMKC team would give them a basketball team to root for for the first time since the Kings.

(04-27-2017 02:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-27-2017 09:40 AM)SubGod22 Wrote:  UMKC deals with the same problems mentioned for the others in being overshadowed by a handful of schools.

UMKC has shown some progress, but they still have a long way to go. However, if they're adding Valpo and MSU, they may have to grab a western school to make some people happy. That's where Omaha and UMKC could come in to play.

I would buy that argument if UMKC was on the Kansas side of the river and had to compete with Kansas just down the road, let alone KSU or Wichita. As it is they only have to deal with Missouri and to a lesser extent Missouri State in other parts of the state and no NBA team. Kansas is a factor faintly only because they get media attention but few Missourians root for them because of the state rivalry pre-dating the Civil War, so UMKC could become something bigger if they ever became good.

KU is 40 miles from downtown Kansas City. 40% of the Kansas City metro is in Kansas along with most of the affluent suburbs. KU holds a big influence over the KC metro on both sides of the state.

Mill is strugling, but who is better get
St Lious not coming, why is beyond me
Dakato's sticking together, Omaha plays hockey
IUPU's ?, W ILL would be 5 in ILL
Den, come on
DET & Ohio out
GB not over Mill
Valpo would be 3 in Ind

that leaves Oral Roberts, UMKC & Murry St

(04-27-2017 03:12 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  My point is that they have a shot at carving a niche. I conceded that Kansas has a presence there in the media because of the Kansas side but as history has noted, Missourians don't like much anything Kansas. Therefore, a good UMKC team would give them a basketball team to root for for the first time since the Kings.

Right. Marquette & the Bucks take up 35k hoops attendees. And that's also a Badgers town on top of it. I just don't see what niche UWM could fill.

UMKC at least has no Big East (Omaha/Milwaukee), college hockey (Omaha), or NBA (Milwaukee) within city confines forever ahead of them. Yes, like Badgers/Milwaukee and Huskers/Omaha, there's a ton of residual fans from Kansas/Missouri, but there's intrinsically a huge niche to fill in KC that the MVC has 0% chance of filling in Omaha or Milwaukee.

No A or B choices left for the MVC. Only C level selections or stay at eleven(which is NOT as bad as some make it sound). Eleven teams--20 game BB schedule-doable.

The only other angle could be one we are not seeing and I don't have the knowledge or the time for research.

Choose a school who is at least C/C+ level in BB ability/support/facilities/location. THEN...is SPECIAL in at least 2 of these areas:


---great baseball
---great women's BB
---great facilities or local support
---very high academic reputation
---great destination or easy(cheap) travel
---travel partner or rival very close by
---huge media market where they are noticed

Something to really hang their hat on!

C'mon guys! We are missing some significant detail.Homework.Research.

Ready.Set.Google!!!

(04-27-2017 03:28 PM)templefootballfan Wrote:  Mill is strugling, but who is better get
St Lious not coming, why is beyond me
Dakato's sticking together, Omaha plays hockey
IUPU's ?, W ILL would be 5 in ILL
Den, come on
DET & Ohio out
GB not over Mill
Valpo would be 3 in Ind

that leaves Oral Roberts, UMKC & Murry St

Schools I would prefer over Milwaukee and Omaha. Not that I necessarily want them.

NKU
ETSU
Oakland
UIC
Wright State
Chattanooga
Tennessee Tech

After a little research I think Wright State deserves a look.I know they do not have name recognition to most but if you can get past that they are interesting.


Good city--Dayton.A basketball area.Dayton gets more pub but is expensive and private.Wright is a public that gets good local support.

BB--good RPI-114,115,143 last 3 years

Baseball--NCAA regional(last 2 years 4-4) record currently 27-12

Women's BB--top 150 rpi's lately

Nutter center -- fairly modern--10,400 capacity

enrollment---17,750

has school of medicine

3,000 students on campus

4.25 hrs to VALPO

3 hrs to Indiana St.

Dayton media mkt.--64th

Cincinnati market very close by---33rd

A growing university with a lot of upside.

(04-27-2017 03:18 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  KU is 40 miles from downtown Kansas City. 40% of the Kansas City metro is in Kansas along with most of the affluent suburbs. KU holds a big influence over the KC metro on both sides of the state.

I never said they didn't but a good UMKC team is a team for Kansas City, not the big state school down the road. Maybe I'm off my mark, I've never been to Kansas City, so maybe someone else can fill me in.

Wright State may not have an athletics program for much longer.