(04-25-2017 02:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Hitting a magic number isn't the debate.
It is always about whether a school fits your vision of what your school is athletically and how do they impact the association financially and in the mission of achieving your vision of what the league should be.

11 is very workable. Sun Belt and Big 10 did it for years, MWC is doing it.
If one fits, they take one, if 2 fit then 2, if three then they'll take three.
But they aren't going to take a mismatched sock just to hit a number. The only time you do that is when survival of the conference is at stake

The MVC is already a bunch of mismatched socks.

(04-25-2017 03:38 PM)SubGod22 Wrote:  

(04-25-2017 02:31 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Hitting a magic number isn't the debate.
It is always about whether a school fits your vision of what your school is athletically and how do they impact the association financially and in the mission of achieving your vision of what the league should be.

11 is very workable. Sun Belt and Big 10 did it for years, MWC is doing it.
If one fits, they take one, if 2 fit then 2, if three then they'll take three.
But they aren't going to take a mismatched sock just to hit a number. The only time you do that is when survival of the conference is at stake

The MVC is already a bunch of mismatched socks.

With the exception of Loyola every other team has been in the conference for over 20 years and they make a lot of sense. The AAC on the other hand is frankensteinesque.

Just imagine if Boise and San Diego State had stayed.

Omaha is being visited Wednesday. Murray State was Monday, Valparaiso was Tuesday (today - confirmed); So three?

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketb...ing-visit/

No UNBoR meeting scheduled until June 1st. Rumors Milwaukee also might get a visit. Also no UWBoR meetings.

Note: I checked the record, both UNO to tSL and UNL (3/11/2010) to B1G had resolutions on agenda.

(04-25-2017 06:15 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Omaha is being visited Wednesday. Murray State was Monday, Valparaiso was Tuesday (today - confirmed); So three?

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketb...ing-visit/

No UNBoR meeting scheduled until June 1st. Rumors Milwaukee also might get a visit. Also no UWBoR meetings.

Note: I checked the record, both UNO to tSL and UNL (3/11/2010) to B1G had resolutions on agenda.

Damn I was hoping Milwaukee over Omaha to keep that NCC/SL group together. I was thinking the current SL is a better bball conf. than the HL w/o Valpo but perception is HL is a rung higher on the ladder and MVC a rung above HL.

Murray State for everything but football July 1, Murray football and all of Valparaiso and Omaha for 2018?

Rothstein still thinks it's Valpo and Murray. Valpo the more likely (hunger games scenario?).

The RPI numbers just don't look good with Omaha (216, and a small budget) or Milwaukee (224), making either a high risk. Either would represent a big letdown from Belmont (RPI 66). I like what MVC follower suggested (paraphrasing), go to 11 for a year or two and let Omaha and Milwaukee prove which should be the 12th.

I dunno now. The MVC obviously will have to have another meeting to discuss and figure out who has the votes.

I could see some more splits in MVC if only Valpo gets in. There's clearly support for Murray State, but maybe enough private schools saying no, too.

UNO and UWM might be concessions, but the private ranks seem certain to grow, even with a public school loss.

U of Detroit could work for a private.

I wondered why they were not getting any love from MVC They would be a good fit for the mvc privates

(04-25-2017 10:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Rothstein still thinks it's Valpo and Murray. Valpo the more likely (hunger games scenario?).

The RPI numbers just don't look good with Omaha (216, and a small budget) or Milwaukee (224), making either a high risk. Either would represent a big letdown from Belmont (RPI 66). I like what MVC follower suggested (paraphrasing), go to 11 for a year or two and let Omaha and Milwaukee prove which should be the 12th.

I dunno now. The MVC obviously will have to have another meeting to discuss and figure out who has the votes.

Milwaukee isn't much of a risk. Its advantages are: 1) it is the biggest market being considered; and 2) it makes a perfect travel companion for Loyola, which is only a bit over an hour away. Valpo would be a nice fit, but it is a pain in the butt for travel purposes since you need to fly into O'Hare. Murray State is a good program, but it is in a small media market. While the conference is familiar with Omaha, do you really want to invite a second tier team after Creighton left? Seems like admitting the conference is second rate.

The biggest problem with UWM is the idiot AD who has alienated the big money donors and drove the program into the ground with the way she handled the Jeter firing. For example, the guy whose name is on UWM's school of business just donated $5.5 million to Marquette. In any event, I think UWM would be a good fit in the Valley, clearly better than Omaha. That said, I think Valpo and Murray State are probably better fits. Interesting that UIC isn't in the final four. I guess Loyola didn't want another Chicago school in the conference.

Milwaukee is a risk because the concept of expansion is to raise RPI and generate more NIT and every so often an at large NCAA bid. Low RPI threatens to pull league down. This is critical when you head into the next TV and media contract. The other thing is Milwaukee is rightly compared to Belmont, whom they really wanted, and to Wichita State. If the move is about Basketball then it's a terrible choice, 4th option in the Milwaukee market.

Safe like Loyola-Chicago was safe market choice.

You are a Milwaukee partisan, so understandably you want to move up. But I don't think it will happen, nor should it at this time. Go get a couple NCAA bids and the picture changes.

Of course we are not far removed from this either
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/panth...29831.html

(04-26-2017 12:29 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Milwaukee is a risk because the concept of expansion is to raise RPI and generate more NIT and every so often an at large NCAA bid. Low RPI threatens to pull league down. This is critical when you head into the next TV and media contract. The other thing is Milwaukee is rightly compared to Belmont, whom they really wanted, and to Wichita State. If the move is about Basketball then it's a terrible choice, 4th option in the Milwaukee market.

Safe like Loyola-Chicago was safe market choice.

You are a Milwaukee partisan, so understandably you want to move up. But I don't think it will happen, nor should it at this time. Go get a couple NCAA bids and the picture changes.

Of course we are not far removed from this either
http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/panth...29831.html

Not really a UWM partisan. I have a degree from Drake, though. So it would nice to see them come to Milwaukee. That said, it is my understanding that UWM's postseason ban was the fault of a compliance officer who is no longer with the school. UWM has had recent success. It won 20 games 2 years ago, and in fact, has won 20 games 4 out of the last 8 years. On the other hand, Omaha has only done it once in the past 8 years. In fact, but for a short stretch in the early 2000s, Omaha has been a traditional doormat for its entire history. UWM fell apart last year because of the idiot AD, otherwise, they have been a solid program for the bast 20 years. Again, I think Murray State and Valpo are better programs and better fits in the Valley. My real question is why is Omaha being considered?

Why not UIC and NIU. NIU could come in for all but FB and go independent in FB.

(04-26-2017 10:03 AM)bluesox Wrote:  U of Detroit could work for a private.

That school is in just as much trouble as the City of Detroit. They really should have tried to get in the A-10 or even the Valley back around the turn of the century at their peak (maybe they did try). Now they're gonna get passed for good by Oakland.

I will say this.

Murray & Valparaiso are clearly the two best willing adds in the MVC footprint. But Omaha is such a bad add that would entirely undo all the good in adding Murray & Valpo. UNO's the equivalent of a suicide bomb.

They have no historical success. Low attendance. Hoops isn't their #1 investment. And UNO hoops is #4 in Omaha behind Creighton, UNO hockey, & Husker hoops an hour west.

Ditto UWM hoops. #4 behind Marquette, Bucks, & Badgers hoops out west.

UMKC has a much better shot of attaining a niche in their market with success than UNO/UWM/UIC.

(04-26-2017 01:37 PM)bigredmachine Wrote:  Why not UIC and NIU. NIU could come in for all but FB and go independent in FB.

That's how you get UNI or ISU moving to the MAC.

Besides, you don't really want to be independent in football.

(04-26-2017 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I will say this.

Murray & Valparaiso are clearly the two best willing adds in the MVC footprint. But Omaha is such a bad add that would entirely undo all the good in adding Murray & Valpo. UNO's the equivalent of a suicide bomb.

They have no historical success. Low attendance. Hoops isn't their #1 investment. And UNO hoops is #4 in Omaha behind Creighton, UNO hockey, & Husker hoops an hour west.

Ditto UWM hoops. #4 behind Marquette, Bucks, & Badgers hoops out west.

UMKC has a much better shot of attaining a niche in their market with success than UNO/UWM/UIC.

Yeah, it's mildly surprising they aren't looking at them. They could even consider occasionally hosting the conference tournament at the Sprint Center.

(04-26-2017 08:11 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  

(04-26-2017 01:44 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  I will say this.

Murray & Valparaiso are clearly the two best willing adds in the MVC footprint. But Omaha is such a bad add that would entirely undo all the good in adding Murray & Valpo. UNO's the equivalent of a suicide bomb.

They have no historical success. Low attendance. Hoops isn't their #1 investment. And UNO hoops is #4 in Omaha behind Creighton, UNO hockey, & Husker hoops an hour west.

Ditto UWM hoops. #4 behind Marquette, Bucks, & Badgers hoops out west.

UMKC has a much better shot of attaining a niche in their market with success than UNO/UWM/UIC.

Yeah, it's mildly surprising they aren't looking at them. They could even consider occasionally hosting the conference tournament at the Sprint Center.

Conference tournament in KC has been shot down numerous times. Too far to travel for the poor schools in the east. This is the same MVC that after the last bidding process announced they were going to make a historic announcement, and announced they were staying in STL as expected.

UMKC deals with the same problems mentioned for the others in being overshadowed by a handful of schools.

UMKC has shown some progress, but they still have a long way to go. However, if they're adding Valpo and MSU, they may have to grab a western school to make some people happy. That's where Omaha and UMKC could come in to play.

If I-Chicago ever gets an invite you would think Chicago would be the natural spot to host the tourney at DePaul new arena. Yet, that might be a reason they don't get an invite since some might want to keep it in st Louis