(04-19-2017 04:53 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:54 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and the ONLY place I have ever read or heard Bismarck was on a PBS health care special and you Owl. I have never heard any politician from either side reference Bismarck.

that's his macro point....
what he's lobbying for is for both sides of the aisle to, "wake the **** up buttercup!"

Exactly!

tbh, I had never heard of it either. I'm relatively young though... I guess. My only problem with it is that I know we lack the political will to make it happen. The fact that it is never discussed in Congress tells me that.
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Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:53 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:54 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and the ONLY place I have ever read or heard Bismarck was on a PBS health care special and you Owl. I have never heard any politician from either side reference Bismarck.

that's his macro point....
what he's lobbying for is for both sides of the aisle to, "wake the **** up buttercup!"

Exactly!

tbh, I had never heard of it either. I'm relatively young though... I guess. My only problem with it is that I know we lack the political will to make it happen. The fact that it is never discussed in Congress tells me that.
Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

Because you are getting a benefit out of it! Have you ever heard of the herd resistance? Community Immunity?

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/protection/

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:53 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:54 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  that's his macro point....
what he's lobbying for is for both sides of the aisle to, "wake the **** up buttercup!"

Exactly!

tbh, I had never heard of it either. I'm relatively young though... I guess. My only problem with it is that I know we lack the political will to make it happen. The fact that it is never discussed in Congress tells me that.
Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:53 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:54 AM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 06:45 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  and the ONLY place I have ever read or heard Bismarck was on a PBS health care special and you Owl. I have never heard any politician from either side reference Bismarck.

that's his macro point....
what he's lobbying for is for both sides of the aisle to, "wake the **** up buttercup!"

Exactly!

tbh, I had never heard of it either. I'm relatively young though... I guess. My only problem with it is that I know we lack the political will to make it happen. The fact that it is never discussed in Congress tells me that.
Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

well, yeah. I guess I mean if I had been around longer eventually I would have heard about it. I agree with what you're saying about ideological hacks. Bismarck appears to be the closest thing to a middle ground as there is.

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(04-19-2017 04:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Of course I know that and have admitted it many times. That doesn't change the fact that I don't know one person personally who lost their insurance solely because of the ACA. Sorry if that inconveniences you.

So using your logic here since I don't know anybody personally who is addicted to heroin the opioid epidemic must not exist.


As for the rest of your post...congrats to them. As multiple news reports have shown they were evidently very lucky. And especially good on your poor relatives. I have relatives who pay for insurance that due to sky high deductibles they can't afford to use except for extreme circumstances. That's why instead of going to the Dr with severe abdominal pain they sucked down a couple bottles of Pepto before eventually being rushed to the ER because of a ruptured appendix. But hey.....the bright side is HE could have got a free pap smear. THANKS OBAMA!!!!

(04-19-2017 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:53 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 07:37 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Exactly!

tbh, I had never heard of it either. I'm relatively young though... I guess. My only problem with it is that I know we lack the political will to make it happen. The fact that it is never discussed in Congress tells me that.
Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

Your Bismark plan is going to be stealing from me as well, just in a different form.

(04-19-2017 05:14 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Because you are getting a benefit out of it! Have you ever heard of the herd resistance? Community Immunity?

https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/protection/

The reason we are having problems with infectious diseases is because of the Democrats open door policy at the border. Its all new with Obama.

(04-19-2017 05:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 04:53 PM)Hood-rich Wrote:  tbh, I had never heard of it either. I'm relatively young though... I guess. My only problem with it is that I know we lack the political will to make it happen. The fact that it is never discussed in Congress tells me that.
Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

Your Bismark plan is going to be stealing from me as well, just in a different form.

Well, I can prove you benefit in a couple of ways.

One, truly universal basic care helps everybody. I want my kid to have his shots and a checkup before he goes to school, but school is going to be a healthier place for him if all the kids have their shots and a checkup. The one thing that studies have shown over and over (and about the only thing, because there are so many ways to rig a study to get the answers you want) is that the most benefit to society as a whole, at the lowest cost, comes from providing a universal level of basic care.

Two, unlike single-payer and single-provider systems, you're still going to be able to get all the health care that you and your doctor believe is best for you. And it's going to be cheaper, and you are going to be able to buy insurance that will cover it, and that insurance is going to be cheaper than what you are paying today.

Yes, you're going to pay a tax somewhere, my choice is a consumption tax. But I think you're going to get your money's worth out of this one.

(04-19-2017 05:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

Your Bismark plan is going to be stealing from me as well, just in a different form.

Well, I can prove you benefit in a couple of ways.

One, truly universal basic care helps everybody. I want my kid to have his shots and a checkup before he goes to school, but school is going to be a healthier place for him if all the kids have their shots and a checkup. The one thing that studies have shown over and over (and about the only thing, because there are so many ways to rig a study to get the answers you want) is that the most benefit to society as a whole, at the lowest cost, comes from providing a universal level of basic care.

Two, unlike single-payer and single-provider systems, you're still going to be able to get all the health care that you and your doctor believe is best for you. And it's going to be cheaper, and you are going to be able to buy insurance that will cover it, and that insurance is going to be cheaper than what you are paying today.

Yes, you're going to pay a tax somewhere, my choice is a consumption tax. But I think you're going to get your money's worth out of this one.

There are local clinics where kids can get their shots. And they can't get into school without them. That factor is irrelevant.

(04-19-2017 05:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

Your Bismark plan is going to be stealing from me as well, just in a different form.

Well, I can prove you benefit in a couple of ways.

One, truly universal basic care helps everybody. I want my kid to have his shots and a checkup before he goes to school, but school is going to be a healthier place for him if all the kids have their shots and a checkup. The one thing that studies have shown over and over (and about the only thing, because there are so many ways to rig a study to get the answers you want) is that the most benefit to society as a whole, at the lowest cost, comes from providing a universal level of basic care.

Two, unlike single-payer and single-provider systems, you're still going to be able to get all the health care that you and your doctor believe is best for you. And it's going to be cheaper, and you are going to be able to buy insurance that will cover it, and that insurance is going to be cheaper than what you are paying today.

Yes, you're going to pay a tax somewhere, my choice is a consumption tax. But I think you're going to get your money's worth out of this one.

My last kid will be out of school in just over a year from now, so no I don;t benefit there.

Other than job related injuries that were covered by Worker's Comp I haven't been in a Dr's office for anything more than an annual physical in 15 years. My youngest son is the same way.....we never get sick.

I had insurance before Obamacare that was affordable and covered what I needed. The government screwed that up and you expect me, someone who knows how the government operates, to believe they are going to fix it?

And a consumption tax is still a tax......it's stealing my money to give benefits to someone else. Roads, schools, public safety, and the military are examples of things that I benefit from. Making sure Wanda gets her diabetes treated while she sits her fat ass on the couch in the apartment I helped pay for eating food I helped pay for watching Steve Harvey all day isn't something I benefit from.

(04-19-2017 03:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Cracks me up...the only people I know who had to change their plan due to the ACA all post here. No relatives at all were affected negatively that I'm aware of.

Quite a coincidence, huh?

What do you want, policy numbers and the annual letters I receive telling me/us that the plan will no longer be available?

Quick timeline to put it in perspective: married in '94, had a catastrophic only policy cause I was bullet proof and would live forever, but new wife was a State/County employee and had good coverage I could join for essentially same cost. She leaves job in 99 to stay home with kids, we go on COBRA for about a year or two. Took out a private policy for us and employees plan whenever that was, maybe '01-'02 and carried that VERY good plan with minor adjustments, price increases due to things that changed with us, who the employees were and their health, age etc. Normal schit. The price went up, yes, things get more expensive, we were getting older, kids were both in HS varsity sports and Son was a pretty sizable consumer of care due to it...

zerOcare is rammed through a corrupt House and Senate. First letter arrives in '10-'11? The plan will no longer be offered. We consult with our broker guy, pick another one. Not as good, more expensive but decent. 10 months later next letter arrives, then the next one, and the next one, not ALWAYS cancellations, but others are the "same" plan, but at confiscatory prices, a couple times between 20-45% increases over what we'd been paying.

Around '12-'13 letter comes from Doctors office (who is also a friend, I coached 2 of his kids, they do swimteam together etc. He's no longer taking certain plans/Co's insurance and he's going to strictly "Boutique". Can't make $$$'s any longer for the amount of work he has to put in. Like your doctor, keep your doctor. Nope, effectively ran him out of his business after 18-20 years.

We are "shopping" for a new plan, literally, every single year now. The deductibles are through the roof, and it is the single most expensive thing we have after our mortgage.

That isn't "coincidence", them facts. Go start up your own gig and see how you fair. Methinks you'd change your tune in short order...

(04-19-2017 05:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  My last kid will be out of school in just over a year from now, so no I don't benefit there.

That is one example, but not the only one by any means. I think we all benefit from a higher general level of health in society as a whole. That's debatable, but there's a lot of evidence that says it's correct.

Quote:Other than job related injuries that were covered by Worker's Comp I haven't been in a Dr's office for anything more than an annual physical in 15 years. My youngest son is the same way.....we never get sick.
I had insurance before Obamacare that was affordable and covered what I needed. The government screwed that up and you expect me, someone who knows how the government operates, to believe they are going to fix it?

But that's the beauty of Bismarck. It's universal private insurance. It's not government insurance or government health care. There's no Medicaid or Medicare. Compared to what we have today, the government is much less involved, so they can't flock it up as easily. The government role in the basic care system (the "free" side, except it's not free) is to do what employers do here--negotiate plan options with carriers, collect money for insurance, and pay premiums with that money. With respect to the supplemental care system (the "pay" side), other than health and safety regulation (same as on "free" side), the government is a non-player. I understand--and share--your low regard of letting government run health care or anything else, but government doesn't run Bismarck.

Quote:And a consumption tax is still a tax......it's stealing my money to give benefits to someone else. Roads, schools, public safety, and the military are examples of things that I benefit from. Making sure Wanda gets her diabetes treated while she sits her fat ass on the couch in the apartment I helped pay for eating food I helped pay for watching Steve Harvey all day isn't something I benefit from.

Unless, of course, Wanda's diabetes makes her drowsy so she falls asleep on the can and her cigarette ashes light her underwear and sets the house on fire (see other thread) and you have to respond.

(04-19-2017 04:06 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 03:45 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Cracks me up...the only people I know who had to change their plan due to the ACA all post here. No relatives at all were affected negatively that I'm aware of.

Quite a coincidence, huh?

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/other/obama-...8C11485678

Quote: President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

Four sources deeply involved in the Affordable Care Act tell NBC News that 50 to 75 percent of the 14 million consumers who buy their insurance individually can expect to receive a “cancellation” letter or the equivalent over the next year because their existing policies don’t meet the standards mandated by the new health care law. One expert predicts that number could reach as high as 80 percent. And all say that many of those forced to buy pricier new policies will experience “sticker shock.”

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/policy-cance...obamacare/

Quote:Nearly five weeks into the launch of HealthCare.gov, the management expert brought in to turn around the website says its issues are fixable. But it's going to take weeks, not days. That comes as some Americans are being surprised, not only that they are being booted off their current plans, but at how much they're being asked to pay for new ones.

For many, their introduction to the Affordable Care Act has been negative: a broken website, and now cancellation notices from insurance companies followed by sticker shock over higher prices for the new plans. It's directly at odds with repeated assurances from the president, who has said "if you like your insurance plan, you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you."

But people across the country are finding out they're losing their existing insurance plans under Obamacare because requirements in the law, such as prenatal and prescription drug coverage, mean their old plans aren't comprehensive enough.

In California, Kaiser Permanente terminated policies for 160,000 people. In Florida, at least 300,000 people are losing coverage.

Evidently it's more than "just people who post here".

Of course you knew that but in your continued zeal to defend this failed leftist policy you chose to be dishonest.

Lol.

That describes our experience almost to a T. I could saved a lot of time and keystrokes if I'd only read a bit further. haha

(04-19-2017 05:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

Your Bismark plan is going to be stealing from me as well, just in a different form.

Well, I can prove you benefit in a couple of ways.

One, truly universal basic care helps everybody. I want my kid to have his shots and a checkup before he goes to school, but school is going to be a healthier place for him if all the kids have their shots and a checkup. The one thing that studies have shown over and over (and about the only thing, because there are so many ways to rig a study to get the answers you want) is that the most benefit to society as a whole, at the lowest cost, comes from providing a universal level of basic care.

Two, unlike single-payer and single-provider systems, you're still going to be able to get all the health care that you and your doctor believe is best for you. And it's going to be cheaper, and you are going to be able to buy insurance that will cover it, and that insurance is going to be cheaper than what you are paying today.

Yes, you're going to pay a tax somewhere, my choice is a consumption tax. But I think you're going to get your money's worth out of this one.

My last kid will be out of school in just over a year from now, so no I don;t benefit there.

Other than job related injuries that were covered by Worker's Comp I haven't been in a Dr's office for anything more than an annual physical in 15 years. My youngest son is the same way.....we never get sick.

I had insurance before Obamacare that was affordable and covered what I needed. The government screwed that up and you expect me, someone who knows how the government operates, to believe they are going to fix it?

And a consumption tax is still a tax......it's stealing my money to give benefits to someone else. Roads, schools, public safety, and the military are examples of things that I benefit from. Making sure Wanda gets her diabetes treated while she sits her fat ass on the couch in the apartment I helped pay for eating food I helped pay for watching Steve Harvey all day isn't something I benefit from.

I lean toward toward your POV. But at the same time it's either coming out of your pocket as a tax or as part of your Health Care premium.

Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

I looked and can't find Mach's post about Obama lying about his health care plan. Oh well, team over country.

(04-19-2017 05:38 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:23 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:16 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:12 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:05 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  Your age isn't the reason you haven't heard about it. The reason you haven't heard about it is that our political leaders in both parties are ideological hacks who don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country.

How exactly is stealing from me to pay for the healthcare of someone else "good for the country"?

As I said, democrats don't give a rat's ass about the good of the country. That's how we got Obamacare.

Your Bismark plan is going to be stealing from me as well, just in a different form.

Well, I can prove you benefit in a couple of ways.

One, truly universal basic care helps everybody. I want my kid to have his shots and a checkup before he goes to school, but school is going to be a healthier place for him if all the kids have their shots and a checkup. The one thing that studies have shown over and over (and about the only thing, because there are so many ways to rig a study to get the answers you want) is that the most benefit to society as a whole, at the lowest cost, comes from providing a universal level of basic care.

Two, unlike single-payer and single-provider systems, you're still going to be able to get all the health care that you and your doctor believe is best for you. And it's going to be cheaper, and you are going to be able to buy insurance that will cover it, and that insurance is going to be cheaper than what you are paying today.

Yes, you're going to pay a tax somewhere, my choice is a consumption tax. But I think you're going to get your money's worth out of this one.

Perhaps, in theory. Problem is, as with every other directed tax ever implemented, how long before that consumption tax gets dumped into the general fund and is sucked dry paying for all the other unfunded/underfunded entitlements out there? Something clearly needs to be done here, there is no alternative even if zerOcare is allowed to implode as it inevitably will. I think your "combo" plan/idea sounds about as viable as any I've heard of, and I'd imagine it's had to have been discussed, so I wonder what the pitfalls may be that apparently no one really wants to back it?

(04-19-2017 06:17 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  Perhaps, in theory. Problem is, as with every other directed tax ever implemented, how long before that consumption tax gets dumped into the general fund and is sucked dry paying for all the other unfunded/underfunded entitlements out there? Something clearly needs to be done here, there is no alternative even if zerOcare is allowed to implode as it inevitably will. I think your "combo" plan/idea sounds about as viable as any I've heard of, and I'd imagine it's had to have been discussed, so I wonder what the pitfalls may be that apparently no one really wants to back it?

But that's still a problem with or without a consumption tax, and regardless of what we do about healthcare. By the way in France, a Bismarck country, the government spends less per capita on health care than the US government does (if you include state and federal). Be sure to let that sink in.

That's why I favor a balanced budget. Not a balanced budget amendment, although that's not a bad idea, but a balanced budget. You don't get to spend another 50 cents without finding another 50 cents worth of revenues. You don't get to sell some half-ased idea based on claimed (and probably exaggerated) benefits without comparing the costs and figuring out how to pay for it. That enforces some of the kind of discipline you want.

(04-19-2017 06:00 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-19-2017 05:46 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  My last kid will be out of school in just over a year from now, so no I don't benefit there.

That is one example, but not the only one by any means. I think we all benefit from a higher general level of health in society as a whole. That's debatable, but there's a lot of evidence that says it's correct.

Insurance has absolutely nothing to do with the level of health, just like it has absolutely nothing to do with the availability of healthcare.

Quote:

Quote:Other than job related injuries that were covered by Worker's Comp I haven't been in a Dr's office for anything more than an annual physical in 15 years. My youngest son is the same way.....we never get sick.
I had insurance before Obamacare that was affordable and covered what I needed. The government screwed that up and you expect me, someone who knows how the government operates, to believe they are going to fix it?

But that's the beauty of Bismarck. It's universal private insurance. It's not government insurance or government health care. There's no Medicaid or Medicare. Compared to what we have today, the government is much less involved, so they can't flock it up as easily. The government role in the basic care system (the "free" side, except it's not free) is to do what employers do here--negotiate plan options with carriers, collect money for insurance, and pay premiums with that money. With respect to the supplemental care system (the "pay" side), other than health and safety regulation (same as on "free" side), the government is a non-player. I understand--and share--your low regard of letting government run health care or anything else, but government doesn't run Bismarck.

If you need a tax to pay for it it's not "private".

Quote:

Quote:And a consumption tax is still a tax......it's stealing my money to give benefits to someone else. Roads, schools, public safety, and the military are examples of things that I benefit from. Making sure Wanda gets her diabetes treated while she sits her fat ass on the couch in the apartment I helped pay for eating food I helped pay for watching Steve Harvey all day isn't something I benefit from.

Unless, of course, Wanda's diabetes makes her drowsy so she falls asleep on the can and her cigarette ashes light her underwear and sets the house on fire (see other thread) and you have to respond.

It would be no different than if her Colt 45 made her drowsy on the couch and set it on fire.

Just a professional note we ran a lot of fires like that. Recliners, couches, and beds. Not so much because of the diabetes, mainly from my scenario.

(04-19-2017 06:49 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  Insurance has absolutely nothing to do with the level of health, just like it has absolutely nothing to do with the availability of healthcare.

I understand where you're coming from. But unfortunately, I think that ship has sailed. I just don't think it will ever be possible politically to go back to a full free market solution. That being the case, I want the one that has more free market than any other, and that is clearly Bismarck.

It works. In particular, unlike single-payer and single-provider, it has actually worked in countries with large populations.