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Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
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Cave_Johnson Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 03:48 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  I doubt FBS football at UI could be saved on your timeline and senario without some sort of football hiatus or exception from the NCAA, simply because an independent FBS schedule for next season would be extremely difficult to create now and impossible to do after the 2017 season (which I do believe will result in another bowl appearance for the Vandals). In this case, UAB could serve as a partial precedent. These events would be very unlikely, but possible.

As to a BSC exit fee (and I assume UI would stay in the BSC for all other sports), I suspect a few Vandal fans could get whatever minuscule fee the BSC would exact by simply turning over a few couch cushions in the 2nd floor lounge at Wallace Hall.

Yup. FBS Independence would have been a possibility for 1-2 years if they had started working on scheduling when the SBC exit was announced. Since then multiple games have been cancelled/rescheduled making an independent schedule basically impossible. At this point the damage has been done.

The only way they come back to playing relevant football in the near future is if that miracle WAC situation happens or if multiple Big Sky teams all move up at once and get some sort of waiver. That ain't happening.

Maybe a decade plus down the road I could see Idaho moving into a second tier of college football when the P5 inevitably becomes its own subdivision, possibly leading to the G5 and top FCS schools becoming a the middle tier of D1.
04-19-2017 04:16 PM
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Cave_Johnson Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 04:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  So what? That doesn't mean the proof doesn't exist.

Ha.

Like I previously mentioned, Chuckles has said publicly that he thinks all university sports should be club sports. He obviously believed that before he was hired. I imagine that had to have come up at least briefly during the interview process.

I do however think it's unlikely he specifically said "By the way guys, if I get hired I'm going to kill the football program" and was then hired because of that.

I guess it is politics so you can't completely throw out the possibility that a bunch of corrupt jackoffs conspired to screw someone/something over. Wouldn't exactly be confident in that being the case here. This is more likely the case of a severely incompetent, possibly autistic dude being able to sneak into a position he wasn't qualified for due to the apathy, bad judgement, and equally severe incompetence of those who hired him.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 04:41 PM by Cave_Johnson.)
04-19-2017 04:37 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 01:45 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-18-2017 01:15 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  After spending months telling everyone there was no plan to cut down Idaho's athletic department, Chuck Staben was forced to finally acknowledge the obvious today -- moving to FCS is costing us enough money to hurt and cuts will be made, likely including dropping sports. From a letter today:

We will ask the SBOE this week to lift this funding restriction for one year and allow us to use money from our own savings account to balance the athletics budget. This money does not come from academic reserves; it comes from central institutional reserves. But providing additional support alone is not enough. Changes need to be made inside the athletics program to ensure a strong future that is beneficial to our students, student-athletes, staff, faculty and our university.

Accordingly, every line item in the athletics budget is being reviewed. Many potential scenarios have been developed; all including a combination of cost-cutting measures ranging from sports that we sponsor, to scholarships, to administrative and other program costs. The right combination of changes has not been determined and creating a financial strategy is in the early stages. With this SBOE waiver, UI will have time to thoughtfully review each scenario and create an athletics program that complements our prestige and relevance as a leading research university.


Chuck, you filthy liar. Go away and ruin somebody else's school.

Its not him. Its on Idaho's alumni and fans, who are not financial funding the programs, coupled with the lack of TV revenue due to lack of public interest! 07-coffee3

Dang Wilkie! Bashing a fellow Piterno brother school?
04-19-2017 04:46 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 04:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 03:39 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  this would not constitute proof of anything.

So what? That doesn't mean the proof doesn't exist.

I can believe whatever scenario I want, so long as the likelihood is more than zero.

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish, NoDak.02-13-banana

(04-19-2017 03:48 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  simply because an independent FBS schedule for next season would be extremely difficult to create now and impossible to do after the 2017 season (which I do believe will result in another bowl appearance for the Vandals).

Hmmm ... true.

I still think even if they didn't start until after the 2017 bowl game (win by Idaho, perhaps capping a nine or ten win season) .... you could still salvage something like a few game schedule for 2018, and build up every year after that from there. Assuming NCAA granted waivers as needed for 2018 and 2019 seasons, on not meeting the minimum number of (FBS) games scheduled.

They have two games per season already done for 2018, 19, and 20. Start from there, and try to get at least two more for 2018. And so on. Can bring in (or play at) FCS, and even DII, DIII, and NAIA. Who cares. Just get games.

Maybe some Independents are available but I assume most schools have 2018 schedules set excepting conference games. What you suggest may be possible but it is extremely difficult and would still require a waiver to meet FBS requirements. However, if just fielding a team in 2018 and aiming to rejoin FBS in a few years (ala UAB) then it just might work. Or put the program on hiatus, like UAB, but one still needs the NCAA to exempt UI from restrictions to return to FBS (like Liberty).
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 04:56 PM by Bronco85.)
04-19-2017 04:53 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
That's true for FBS, likely. But for FCS and lower (I assume), would think schedules are somewhat open even the summer before the season starts. NDSU seems to be that way, more years than not.

Just saying, you could make a schedule for 2018 of the two away games already scheduled, maybe pick up one more FBS, grab two or three FCS, two or three DII/NAIA/DIII ... call it a day. It's a "lost" season, for sure. But building back towards meeting the requirement.
(This post was last modified: 04-19-2017 05:18 PM by MplsBison.)
04-19-2017 05:17 PM
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LatahCounty Online
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Post: #66
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
I think the only feasible way to stay FBS at this point would be to make a Can't Refuse offer to the Sun Belt to let us stay in the conference for one extra year. At this point we're a contributing member that's helping, not hurting the Belt in the G5 standings so it might not be impossible if we threw enough extra money into the pot and the deal was only one year. If we had 2018 taken care of we could be OK in 2019 and thereafter.
04-19-2017 05:30 PM
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Cave_Johnson Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 05:30 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I think the only feasible way to stay FBS at this point would be to make a Can't Refuse offer to the Sun Belt to let us stay in the conference for one extra year. At this point we're a contributing member that's helping, not hurting the Belt in the G5 standings so it might not be impossible if we threw enough extra money into the pot and the deal was only one year. If we had 2018 taken care of we could be OK in 2019 and thereafter.

That hadn't crossed my mind but you're right. That's about the only thing that could make it work. Extremely unlikely, and it would take a lot of boosters to step up and donate but it's more likely than anything else.
04-19-2017 05:59 PM
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LatahCounty Online
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Post: #68
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 05:59 PM)Cave_Johnson Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 05:30 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I think the only feasible way to stay FBS at this point would be to make a Can't Refuse offer to the Sun Belt to let us stay in the conference for one extra year. At this point we're a contributing member that's helping, not hurting the Belt in the G5 standings so it might not be impossible if we threw enough extra money into the pot and the deal was only one year. If we had 2018 taken care of we could be OK in 2019 and thereafter.

That hadn't crossed my mind but you're right. That's about the only thing that could make it work. Extremely unlikely, and it would take a lot of boosters to step up and donate but it's more likely than anything else.


For this, I think Staben and Spear are a much bigger obstacle than the boosters. I don't have many doubts that we'd pay for it but someone would have to negotiate it and those guys haven't exactly been putting our best foot forward with that conference.
04-19-2017 06:25 PM
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Post: #69
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
I could be slightly off on the numbers but not by much.
Idaho was top four in the SBC
in revenue before subsidies
lowest percentage of subsidies
number of ESPN3 viewers
With a lower conference payout and string of bad seasons.

I think with Liberty, NMSU and U Mass independence could work.
The state should mandate BSU and Idaho play. BSU athletics gets a bigger subsidy but lower percentage.

That would be four games plus a BSC buy game for three of the five home games required.
The thirty million that is being raised for the arena would need to be used to expand the dome. A pro FBS president and an AD good at fundraising could have made it work.


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04-19-2017 08:26 PM
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RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 08:26 PM)MJG Wrote:  I could be slightly off on the numbers but not by much.
Idaho was top four in the SBC
in revenue before subsidies
lowest percentage of subsidies
number of ESPN3 viewers
With a lower conference payout and string of bad seasons.

I think with Liberty, NMSU and U Mass independence could work.
The state should mandate BSU and Idaho play. BSU athletics gets a bigger subsidy but lower percentage.

That would be four games plus a BSC buy game for three of the five home games required.
The thirty million that is being raised for the arena would need to be used to expand the dome. A pro FBS president and an AD good at fundraising could have made it work.


Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

With Liberty being a known option, I wonder if Chuckie may have tried FBS Indy?
04-19-2017 09:03 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
You got to wonder who in FCS that could step up to be Independent in FBS? I think some of the Southern Conference and OVC members might be able to do that since SEC schools seem to schedule them at the end of the year. Enough schools could be there for Idaho to play by that time. I think several MVFC could get some games against P5 schools at the end of the year as well. NDSU could wind up getting a full schedule themselves at the FBS as an Independent. Playing a home and home against them might work. It could be an experience for P5 kids to play in a dome to get the feel of it when they go into the NFL.
04-19-2017 10:56 PM
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RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 09:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 08:26 PM)MJG Wrote:  I could be slightly off on the numbers but not by much.
Idaho was top four in the SBC
in revenue before subsidies
lowest percentage of subsidies
number of ESPN3 viewers
With a lower conference payout and string of bad seasons.

I think with Liberty, NMSU and U Mass independence could work.
The state should mandate BSU and Idaho play. BSU athletics gets a bigger subsidy but lower percentage.

That would be four games plus a BSC buy game for three of the five home games required.
The thirty million that is being raised for the arena would need to be used to expand the dome. A pro FBS president and an AD good at fundraising could have made it work.


Sent from my SM-J700T using CSNbbs mobile app

With Liberty being a known option, I wonder if Chuckie may have tried FBS Indy?
The problem with independence is the middle of the season.
Idaho had four games scheduled early already.
Picking up a late P5 would probably be easy.
The more independent programs the better .
Liberty being FBS would have helped if Staben was on the fence he wasn't.
The subject of the future of Vandal athletics came up at his interview.
His talking points of playing regional rivals was probably his answer.
So I think for him the BSC is better for Idaho than the SBC.
Big Sky and independent in football wasn't a consideration for him.

He should have tried it at least until the new arena was built.

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04-20-2017 05:14 AM
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Post: #73
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-19-2017 05:30 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I think the only feasible way to stay FBS at this point would be to make a Can't Refuse offer to the Sun Belt to let us stay in the conference for one extra year. At this point we're a contributing member that's helping, not hurting the Belt in the G5 standings so it might not be impossible if we threw enough extra money into the pot and the deal was only one year. If we had 2018 taken care of we could be OK in 2019 and thereafter.

Actually, yeah! That would work.


(04-19-2017 06:25 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  For this, I think Staben and Spear are a much bigger obstacle than the boosters. I don't have many doubts that we'd pay for it but someone would have to negotiate it and those guys haven't exactly been putting our best foot forward with that conference.

Everything I've read and seen so far is that Spear is actually a good guy, who tried and tried to save Idaho FBS football .... it was Staben who has been hell-bent on killing it.

Get Staben's a__ s__t-canned, and let Spear go to work negotiating a one-year extension with the Sun Belt and start working on the 2019 FBS independent schedule.

I'll donate to that. Set up the fund. Rally the troops, send out an email blast.
04-20-2017 09:56 AM
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Post: #74
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-20-2017 09:56 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(04-19-2017 05:30 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  I think the only feasible way to stay FBS at this point would be to make a Can't Refuse offer to the Sun Belt to let us stay in the conference for one extra year. At this point we're a contributing member that's helping, not hurting the Belt in the G5 standings so it might not be impossible if we threw enough extra money into the pot and the deal was only one year. If we had 2018 taken care of we could be OK in 2019 and thereafter.

Actually, yeah! That would work.


(04-19-2017 06:25 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  For this, I think Staben and Spear are a much bigger obstacle than the boosters. I don't have many doubts that we'd pay for it but someone would have to negotiate it and those guys haven't exactly been putting our best foot forward with that conference.

Everything I've read and seen so far is that Spear is actually a good guy, who tried and tried to save Idaho FBS football .... it was Staben who has been hell-bent on killing it.

Get Staben's a__ s__t-canned, and let Spear go to work negotiating a one-year extension with the Sun Belt and start working on the 2019 FBS independent schedule.

I'll donate to that. Set up the fund. Rally the troops, send out an email blast.

I do believe Spear favored FBS football for UI (public statements and emails tend to support his favoring FBS). I just have little confidence he is qualified to lead UI's AD. He made many poor decisions that likely led UI to the place they are now, e.g. his decision to spend millions putting in windows and minor uprades to the Kibbie Dome (locking UI into a smallish even for FCS facility for the next 50 years), his failure to increase donor rolls, rally the boosters, and to get anything done on the facilities front for game day facilities to make UI appear FBS has been an epic failure. He frequently says absurd things (e.g. BYU won't play in the Kibbie Dome because they are afraid they will lose to the Vandals) and makes inferences to possibilities that have no chance at fruition (an FBS BSC), or which are decisive to his current conference mates. He has had years to fix the real issues that UI has some control over, i.e. budgets, facilities, donations, attendance, alumni and booster engagement, coaching (he does seem to have finally picked a winner for FB) and other than a small luxury box (which actually reduced the size of the smallest FBS stadium in the country) and windows, the game day facilities remain unchanged. IMO, he is the beneficiary of a revolving door series of presidents which allowed him to stay (and he served on the committees that recommended these presidents) and is more an example of the lack of attention and concern UI gives to athletics than a likely savior of the AD.
(This post was last modified: 05-04-2017 10:07 AM by Bronco85.)
04-20-2017 10:16 AM
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RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
I don't think you're wrong ... but frankly, what you describe in the way that you suggest fixing it sounds like an impossible job.

Sure ... in a perfect world, a wizard AD would've gotten Idaho donors to commit to funding a new arena and a new 20k+ football stadium.


Problem is, IMO, that you need success to rally boosters. But in order to get success, often the first mover is facilities. Coaches and players love nice facilities, it shows commitment. So you can see, if you start to have a history of losing in bad facilities ... you're locked into a death spiral.


Boise's path ended up being brilliant, and correct. You invested $$$ in the football stadium and the bball arena (though bball is not really your main sport), decades ago, when stuff cost much less to build. And most importantly, you won. That snowballed into more and more money, for more and more facilities, and so on.
(This post was last modified: 04-20-2017 10:40 AM by MplsBison.)
04-20-2017 10:38 AM
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LatahCounty Online
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Post: #76
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-20-2017 10:16 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  I do believe Spear favored FBS football for UI (public statements and emails tend to support his favoring FBS). I just have little confidence he is qualified to lead UI's AD. He made many poor decisions that likely led UI to the place they are now, e.g. his decision spend millions putting in windows and minor uprades to the Kibbie Dome (locking UI into a smallish even for FCS facility for the next 50 years), his failure to increase donor rolls, rally the boosters, and to get anything done on the facilities front for game day facilities to make UI appear FBS has been an epic failure. He frequently says absurd things (e.g. BYU won't play in the Kibbie Dome because they are afraid they will lose to the Vandals) and makes inferences to possibilities that have no chance at fruition (an FBS BSC), or which are decisive to his current conference mates. He has had years to to fix the real issues that UI has some control over, i.e. budgets, facilities, donations, attendance, alumni and booster engagement, coaching (he does seem to have finally picked a winner for FB) and other than a small luxury box (which actually reduced the size of the smallest FBS stadium in the country) and windows, the game day facilities remain unchanged. IMO, he is the beneficiary of a revolving door series of presidents which allowed him to stay (and he served on the committees that recommended these presidents) and is more an example of the lack of attention and concern UI gives to athletics than a likely savior of the AD.

I agree with all of this. Spear is a nice guy who means well but is a bad fundraiser, doesn't have much vision, and apparently doesn't command much respect inside the University. And at this point he just seems tired of fighting and coasting to retirement. The best thing he has going for him is that there's a much bigger problem above him.

Still, you work with the tools you have and I shudder to think what Staben would replace him with if he left. If we found a way to fix the problem at the top I think Spear would at least not be an obstacle.
04-20-2017 11:19 AM
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RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-20-2017 10:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I don't think you're wrong ... but frankly, what you describe in the way that you suggest fixing it sounds like an impossible job.

Sure ... in a perfect world, a wizard AD would've gotten Idaho donors to commit to funding a new arena and a new 20k+ football stadium.


Problem is, IMO, that you need success to rally boosters. But in order to get success, often the first mover is facilities. Coaches and players love nice facilities, it shows commitment. So you can see, if you start to have a history of losing in bad facilities ... you're locked into a death spiral.


Boise's path ended up being brilliant, and correct. You invested $$$ in the football stadium and the bball arena (though bball is not really your main sport), decades ago, when stuff cost much less to build. And most importantly, you won. That snowballed into more and more money, for more and more facilities, and so on.

What must be frustrating to Vandals is UI had access to the same strategy and simply did nothing of substance. They had at least as strong a presence in the Treasure Valley as BSU when they were winning in FCS and early in FBS. They had momentum which exceeded BSU and a 42 year head start. Complacency was the worst enemy of UI. BSU leadership had the urgency to catch up and leadership at UI had the notion they would always be top dog. Those attitudes combined with geographic factors have led to the current state and appear likely to keep trending in the same direction.

I think there is a clear path to UI remaining FBS. The ISBOE just chastised UI for its deficit in the AD and sent them away to come up with a plan to fix it. UI has been forced to admit the deficit is largely the result of revenue loss from moving down to FCS. Make the assigned deficit recovery plan centered around an FBS independent schedule with 3 money games. It would solve the deficit which UI has been ordered by the ISBOE to remedy. An addition to the plan to work on funding for FB facilities expansion (with specific goals and timelines) should be a part of this proposal. This would improve attractiveness for a future conference and would include efforts to get WSU and BSU back onto the UI home schedule (and Montana even if the Griz remain FCS and BYU) and would be the basis of a business plan that stands a strong chance of approval. There are now enough FBS independents to help with a schedule and creating an independent FBS schedule is one of Spear's few strengths. Add the grass roots and fan based pledges for contributions if UI remains FBS and this plan not only eliminates the current and future projected deficits, but UI will actually make money. If UI leadership had the will, this plan would fly.
04-20-2017 12:01 PM
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LatahCounty Online
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Post: #78
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
(04-20-2017 12:01 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(04-20-2017 10:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  I don't think you're wrong ... but frankly, what you describe in the way that you suggest fixing it sounds like an impossible job.

Sure ... in a perfect world, a wizard AD would've gotten Idaho donors to commit to funding a new arena and a new 20k+ football stadium.


Problem is, IMO, that you need success to rally boosters. But in order to get success, often the first mover is facilities. Coaches and players love nice facilities, it shows commitment. So you can see, if you start to have a history of losing in bad facilities ... you're locked into a death spiral.


Boise's path ended up being brilliant, and correct. You invested $$$ in the football stadium and the bball arena (though bball is not really your main sport), decades ago, when stuff cost much less to build. And most importantly, you won. That snowballed into more and more money, for more and more facilities, and so on.

What must be frustrating to Vandals is UI had access to the same strategy and simply did nothing of substance. They had at least as strong a presence in the Treasure Valley as BSU when they were winning in FCS and early in FBS. They had momentum which exceeded BSU and a 42 year head start. Complacency was the worst enemy of UI. BSU leadership had the urgency to catch up and leadership at UI had the notion they would always be top dog. Those attitudes combined with geographic factors have led to the current state and appear likely to keep trending in the same direction.

I think there is a clear path to UI remaining FBS. The ISBOE just chastised UI for its deficit in the AD and sent them away to come up with a plan to fix it. UI has been forced to admit the deficit is largely the result of revenue loss from moving down to FCS. Make the assigned deficit recovery plan centered around an FBS independent schedule with 3 money games. It would solve the deficit which UI has been ordered by the ISBOE to remedy. An addition to the plan to work on funding for FB facilities expansion (with specific goals and timelines) should be a part of this proposal. This would improve attractiveness for a future conference and would include efforts to get WSU and BSU back onto the UI home schedule (and Montana even if the Griz remain FCS and BYU) and would be the basis of a business plan that stands a strong chance of approval. There are now enough FBS independents to help with a schedule and creating an independent FBS schedule is one of Spear's few strengths. Add the grass roots and fan based pledges for contributions if UI remains FBS and this plan not only eliminates the current and future projected deficits, but UI will actually make money. If UI leadership had the will, this plan would fly.

Yep.
04-20-2017 12:09 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
So Latah, you're circulating an email to pro FBS football boosters about this last chance effort, right? 04-rock

Or has all the fight gone out of you? You're not prepared to let Chuck Staben kill Idaho Football, are you??
(This post was last modified: 04-21-2017 08:36 AM by MplsBison.)
04-21-2017 08:34 AM
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Post: #80
RE: Chuck Staben is a Dirty, Filthy, Stinking Liar
Is there any chance that Idaho would reverse their decision, like UAB, and keep FBS football?

Independents out there like NMSU, UMass, and Liberty could make building a November schedule possible.

If the Big Sky wants to boot them for not playing FCS football the WAC would take them back in a heartbeat as Seattle's travel partner.
04-21-2017 08:42 AM
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