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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #61
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 07:43 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  The only silver lining I see in all of this is that we've entered the realm of "Big Boy Basketball" in a way. Some of the bigger schools have to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

Except many of them have 4 and 5 star guys to plug right behind them. Something like this is a much bigger blow to us than it is to most P5 teams.
05-08-2017 07:48 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #62
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 07:48 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:43 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  The only silver lining I see in all of this is that we've entered the realm of "Big Boy Basketball" in a way. Some of the bigger schools have to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

Except many of them have 4 and 5 star guys to plug right behind them. Something like this is a much bigger blow to us than it is to most P5 teams.

There are a handful of sites that can lose starters and plug in with 4 and 5 star players, but it's only a handful. We're pretty fortunate to have talent at G/SG, and signing Estime will significantly help.

The silver lining I see in Bryce is that we had him for two years. He was great while he was here.
05-08-2017 07:51 AM
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Post: #63
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 07:51 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:48 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:43 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  The only silver lining I see in all of this is that we've entered the realm of "Big Boy Basketball" in a way. Some of the bigger schools have to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

Except many of them have 4 and 5 star guys to plug right behind them. Something like this is a much bigger blow to us than it is to most P5 teams.

There are a handful of sites that can lose starters and plug in with 4 and 5 star players, but it's only a handful. We're pretty fortunate to have talent at G/SG, and signing Estime will significantly help.

The silver lining I see in Bryce is that we had him for two years. He was great while he was here.
We certainly have depth there, that said, it's tough to replace CJ, someone who likely would have challenged the school scoring record, and that leadership is tough to measure too.
05-08-2017 07:53 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #64
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 07:53 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:51 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:48 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:43 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  The only silver lining I see in all of this is that we've entered the realm of "Big Boy Basketball" in a way. Some of the bigger schools have to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

Except many of them have 4 and 5 star guys to plug right behind them. Something like this is a much bigger blow to us than it is to most P5 teams.

There are a handful of sites that can lose starters and plug in with 4 and 5 star players, but it's only a handful. We're pretty fortunate to have talent at G/SG, and signing Estime will significantly help.

The silver lining I see in Bryce is that we had him for two years. He was great while he was here.
We certainly have depth there, that said, it's tough to replace CJ, someone who likely would have challenged the school scoring record, and that leadership is tough to measure too.

Oh, for sure. I didn't mean to dismiss the impact losing Bryce will have. He was special in a UNCW uni.
05-08-2017 08:19 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #65
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 08:19 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:53 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:51 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:48 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:43 AM)Seahawk Nation 08 Wrote:  The only silver lining I see in all of this is that we've entered the realm of "Big Boy Basketball" in a way. Some of the bigger schools have to deal with this kind of stuff all the time.

Except many of them have 4 and 5 star guys to plug right behind them. Something like this is a much bigger blow to us than it is to most P5 teams.

There are a handful of sites that can lose starters and plug in with 4 and 5 star players, but it's only a handful. We're pretty fortunate to have talent at G/SG, and signing Estime will significantly help.

The silver lining I see in Bryce is that we had him for two years. He was great while he was here.
We certainly have depth there, that said, it's tough to replace CJ, someone who likely would have challenged the school scoring record, and that leadership is tough to measure too.

Oh, for sure. I didn't mean to dismiss the impact losing Bryce will have. He was special in a UNCW uni.
Makes me really, really sad honestly.(will turn to mad if he ends up at State)
05-08-2017 08:25 AM
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Post: #66
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 08:25 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 08:19 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:53 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:51 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:48 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  Except many of them have 4 and 5 star guys to plug right behind them. Something like this is a much bigger blow to us than it is to most P5 teams.

There are a handful of sites that can lose starters and plug in with 4 and 5 star players, but it's only a handful. We're pretty fortunate to have talent at G/SG, and signing Estime will significantly help.

The silver lining I see in Bryce is that we had him for two years. He was great while he was here.
We certainly have depth there, that said, it's tough to replace CJ, someone who likely would have challenged the school scoring record, and that leadership is tough to measure too.

Oh, for sure. I didn't mean to dismiss the impact losing Bryce will have. He was special in a UNCW uni.
Makes me really, really sad honestly.(will turn to mad if he ends up at State)

State fan, here. Been around a few times since the Keatts hiring. Totally out of curiosity, why would it upset you so much for a guy to want to follow and play for the coach that recruited him and obviously saw his potential as a prep player? Especially when that coach has played such a big part in that players' success.

Just curious about your opinion on the matter, and I appreciate you guys letting me come around to post.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 09:59 AM by BigPack1517.)
05-08-2017 09:58 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #67
RE: CJ Bryce
For me, it's not about CJ Bryce and Kevin Keatts. I certainly don't speak for the whole board, but for a program that is currently a stepping stone, you can't have your star players follow a coach. He has other really good offers (or at least interest), so it isn't like blocking NCSU would be killing his chances at somewhere bigger.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel in 3 years if State's best player left to join Keatts in Louisville?
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 10:05 AM by bricksnivy.)
05-08-2017 10:03 AM
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Post: #68
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:03 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  For me, it's not about CJ Bryce and Kevin Keatts. I certainly don't speak for the whole board, but for a program that is currently a stepping stone, you can't have your star players follow a coach. He has other really good offers (or at least interest), so it isn't like blocking NCSU would be killing his chances at somewhere bigger.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel in 3 years if State's best player left to join Keatts in Louisville?

I echo Brick's thoughts. It's especially important for a mid that is considered a stepping stone. We would not be able to maintain any level of success at all if the cupboard got purged every time we lost a coach. CJ leaving realistically probably sets us back at least a year.
05-08-2017 10:17 AM
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Post: #69
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:03 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  For me, it's not about CJ Bryce and Kevin Keatts. I certainly don't speak for the whole board, but for a program that is currently a stepping stone, you can't have your star players follow a coach. He has other really good offers (or at least interest), so it isn't like blocking NCSU would be killing his chances at somewhere bigger.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel in 3 years if State's best player left to join Keatts in Louisville?

Obviously my connections are within State's program and not UNCW's, but it would really surprise me to see Bass block Bryce from coming to State. Of course, there may be things that people on here know that I don't.

Peronsally for me, if Keatts is taking the Louisville job in 3 years, it means he did something great here and will have made this job very appealing to a potential candidate. However, I know if that time comes where UL is looking for a new coach and they pursue Keatts, State is going to be willing to match what UL is offering (especially considering the number this coaching search was capped at).

However, I do understand the situation you are trying to lay out, but it is not really something that is realistic considering inter-conference transfer rules (unless it was a Grad Transfer situation). Plus maybe it is just from me being a college athlete that was recruited to play by a particular coach (as I am sure many on this board were also) and knowing that a particular coach plays such a big role in a player choosing a school, but I would completely understand a player wanting to follow their coach even if it was a situation like you laid out.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 10:30 AM by BigPack1517.)
05-08-2017 10:18 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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Post: #70
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:18 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:03 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  For me, it's not about CJ Bryce and Kevin Keatts. I certainly don't speak for the whole board, but for a program that is currently a stepping stone, you can't have your star players follow a coach. He has other really good offers (or at least interest), so it isn't like blocking NCSU would be killing his chances at somewhere bigger.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel in 3 years if State's best player left to join Keatts in Louisville?

, but I would completely understand a player wanting to follow their coach even if it was a situation like you laid out.
I get that way of thinking and i understand, but there has to be some protection for the universities as well.
05-08-2017 10:34 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #71
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:18 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:03 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  For me, it's not about CJ Bryce and Kevin Keatts. I certainly don't speak for the whole board, but for a program that is currently a stepping stone, you can't have your star players follow a coach. He has other really good offers (or at least interest), so it isn't like blocking NCSU would be killing his chances at somewhere bigger.

Out of curiosity, how would you feel in 3 years if State's best player left to join Keatts in Louisville?

Obviously my connections are within State's program and not UNCW's, but it would really surprise me to see Bass block Bryce from coming to State. Of course, there may be things that people on here know that I don't.

Peronsally for me, if Keatts is taking the Louisville job in 3 years, it means he did something great here and will have made this job very appealing to a potential candidate. However, I know if that time comes where UL is looking for a new coach and they pursue Keatts, State is going to be willing to match what UL is offering (especially considering the number this coaching search was capped at).

However, I do understand the situation you are trying to lay out, but it is not really something that is realistic considering inter-conference transfer rules (unless it was a Grad Transfer situation). Plus maybe it is just from me being a college athlete that was recruited to play by a particular coach (as I am sure many on this board were also) and knowing that a particular coach plays such a big role in a player choosing a school, but I would completely understand a player wanting to follow their coach even if it was a situation like you laid out.

Pitino is making over 5 million this year, more than double what State is paying Keatts. If L'ville wants Keatts down the line, salary won't be an issue. You have to assume that Keatts is pretty close to the top of his salary band as the highest paid coach in the UNC system, but that discussion is probably for another day.

Intra-conference transfers are blocked by the league to protect the league. Similarly, UNCW could place transfer restrictions on a player to protect our program. It's really that simple to me. Or we could allow him to transfer without restriction but lose a year of eligibility while sitting out.
05-08-2017 10:40 AM
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Post: #72
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:35 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Pitino is making over 5 million this year, more than double what State is paying Keatts. If L'ville wants Keatts down the line, salary won't be an issue. You have to assume that Keatts is pretty close to the top of his salary band as the highest paid coach in the UNC system, but that discussion is probably for another day.

Intra-conference transfers are blocked by the league to protect the league. Similarly, UNCW could place transfer restrictions on a player to protect our program. It's really that simple to me. Or we could allow him to transfer without restriction but lose a year of eligibility while sitting out.

As I said, I was referring to what this search was capped at, not what Keatts' eventual salary was. I'm not saying salary is going to be an issue for anyone, I am saying State is going to be willing to match whatever L'Ville would potentially offer if that time were to come. If Keatts wants to go to L'Ville, it is because that is where he wants to be, not because of a pay raise.

As for transfers, of course that is why transfer restrictions are put it into play, as well as blocking a transfer from playing at future scheduled opponents. My question is, how does blocking a guy from going to State and playing for the coach that recruited him but allowing him to go to some other ACC school protect UNCW's program?
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 10:48 AM by BigPack1517.)
05-08-2017 10:42 AM
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Seahawkhoops Offline
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CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:35 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Pitino is making over 5 million this year, more than double what State is paying Keatts. If L'ville wants Keatts down the line, salary won't be an issue. You have to assume that Keatts is pretty close to the top of his salary band as the highest paid coach in the UNC system, but that discussion is probably for another day.

Intra-conference transfers are blocked by the league to protect the league. Similarly, UNCW could place transfer restrictions on a player to protect our program. It's really that simple to me. Or we could allow him to transfer without restriction but lose a year of eligibility while sitting out.

As I said, I was referring to what this search was capped at, not what Keatts' eventual salary was. I'm not saying salary is going to be an issue for anyone, I am saying State is going to be willing to match whatever L'Ville would potentially offer if that time were to come. If Keatts wants to go to L'Ville, it is because that is where he wants to be, not because of a pay raise.

As for transfers, of course that is why transfer restrictions are put it into play, as well as blocking a transfer from playing at future scheduled opponents. My question is, how does blocking a guy from going to State and playing for the coach that recruited him but allowing him to go to some other ACC school protect UNCW's program?

In the future if we lost a good coach someone wanting to follow would think twice
05-08-2017 10:57 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #74
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  As I said, I was referring to what this search was capped at, not what Keatts' eventual salary was. I'm not saying salary is going to be an issue for anyone, I am saying State is going to be willing to match whatever L'Ville would potentially offer if that time were to come. If Keatts wants to go to L'Ville, it is because that is where he wants to be, not because of a pay raise.

You think the board will approve a $5 million salary for a basketball coach at NCSU? I don't think there is ANY scenario where NCSU matches what the richest athletic program in the country would offer. It's laughable to suggest that they could.

(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  As for transfers, of course that is why transfer restrictions are put it into play, as well as blocking a transfer from playing at future scheduled opponents. My question is, how does blocking a guy from going to State and playing for the coach that recruited him but allowing him to go to some other ACC school protect UNCW's program?

For the same reason employers put non-compete clauses in contracts. UNCW is at a disadvantage so it is the university trying to even the playing field so that we stand a chance. Bryce has already made his mind to transfer, but what if Talley or Cacok are contemplating and in their mind evaluating leaving but decided they'd only leave for NCSU? This isn't about Bryce or Keatts, it's to protect UNCW as much as we possibly can.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 11:12 AM by bricksnivy.)
05-08-2017 11:05 AM
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Post: #75
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 10:57 AM)Seahawkhoops Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:35 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  Pitino is making over 5 million this year, more than double what State is paying Keatts. If L'ville wants Keatts down the line, salary won't be an issue. You have to assume that Keatts is pretty close to the top of his salary band as the highest paid coach in the UNC system, but that discussion is probably for another day.

Intra-conference transfers are blocked by the league to protect the league. Similarly, UNCW could place transfer restrictions on a player to protect our program. It's really that simple to me. Or we could allow him to transfer without restriction but lose a year of eligibility while sitting out.

As I said, I was referring to what this search was capped at, not what Keatts' eventual salary was. I'm not saying salary is going to be an issue for anyone, I am saying State is going to be willing to match whatever L'Ville would potentially offer if that time were to come. If Keatts wants to go to L'Ville, it is because that is where he wants to be, not because of a pay raise.

As for transfers, of course that is why transfer restrictions are put it into play, as well as blocking a transfer from playing at future scheduled opponents. My question is, how does blocking a guy from going to State and playing for the coach that recruited him but allowing him to go to some other ACC school protect UNCW's program?

In the future if we lost a good coach someone wanting to follow would think twice

So instead of that player obviously wanting to be elsewhere and allowing him to do so in what he believes is in his best interest, you'd rather try and use that tactic in getting him to stay somewhere he does not want to be?
05-08-2017 11:05 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 11:05 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  So instead of that player obviously wanting to be elsewhere and allowing him to do so in what he believes is in his best interest, you'd rather try and use that tactic in getting him to stay somewhere he does not want to be?

No, it's the university creating an advantage that players must consider before making a big decision. They chose UNCW in the first place, so it's not forcing anything. Bryce has interest from Texas, Illinois, Purdue, South Florida, Miami, GT, UVa, Ohio State, and WFU. We wouldn't be punishing anyone other than Keatts in this specific situation.
05-08-2017 11:10 AM
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Post: #77
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 11:05 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  As I said, I was referring to what this search was capped at, not what Keatts' eventual salary was. I'm not saying salary is going to be an issue for anyone, I am saying State is going to be willing to match whatever L'Ville would potentially offer if that time were to come. If Keatts wants to go to L'Ville, it is because that is where he wants to be, not because of a pay raise.

You think the board will approve a $5 million salary for a basketball coach at NCSU? I don't think there is ANY scenario where NCSU matches what the richest athletic program in the country would offer. It's laughable to suggest that they could.

(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  As for transfers, of course that is why transfer restrictions are put it into play, as well as blocking a transfer from playing at future scheduled opponents. My question is, how does blocking a guy from going to State and playing for the coach that recruited him but allowing him to go to some other ACC school protect UNCW's program?

For the same reason employers put non-compete clauses in contracts. UNCW is at a disadvantage so it is the university trying to even the playing field so that we stand a chance. Bryce has already made his mind to transfer, but what if Talley or Cacok are contemplating and in their mind saying evaluating leaving but decided they'd only leave for NCSU? This isn't about Bryce or Keatts, it's to protect UNCW as much as we possibly can.

I know what the board approved this year, and it was not too far from that ball park (in fact, closer than you might think). I assure you if Keatts came in and became the most successful coach since V, State would be willing to go pretty darn high to keep him around. Lot of people forget State has one of Top 5 largest donor bases in the nation.

As I stated earlier, I totally get certain transfer restrictions, but I just can't agree with restricting a guy to go play for the coach that recruited him and obviously someone that he has a strong connection with. Especially coming from someone who was a college athlete with a relationship with the same coaches for four years.
05-08-2017 11:14 AM
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Dash Rip Rock Jr Offline
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Post: #78
RE: CJ Bryce
I can support not allowing a player to transfer to a fellow conference member, most conferences have a two year waiting period for a transfer within the conference. Other than that I don't support blocking a player from a selected school. I really doubt Bass would ever block CJ from going to State, Mr Murphy would not like that
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 11:16 AM by Dash Rip Rock Jr.)
05-08-2017 11:14 AM
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Post: #79
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 11:10 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:05 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  So instead of that player obviously wanting to be elsewhere and allowing him to do so in what he believes is in his best interest, you'd rather try and use that tactic in getting him to stay somewhere he does not want to be?

No, it's the university creating an advantage that players must consider before making a big decision. They chose UNCW in the first place, so it's not forcing anything. Bryce has interest from Texas, Illinois, Purdue, South Florida, Miami, GT, UVa, Ohio State, and WFU. We wouldn't be punishing anyone other than Keatts in this specific situation.

So assuming Bryce wants to play for Keatts, his head coach for his first two years of college, you do not think this would be punishing him?

Of course, for all anyone knows, Bryce may not want to.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 11:16 AM by BigPack1517.)
05-08-2017 11:15 AM
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bricksnivy Offline
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Post: #80
RE: CJ Bryce
(05-08-2017 11:14 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:05 AM)bricksnivy Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  As I said, I was referring to what this search was capped at, not what Keatts' eventual salary was. I'm not saying salary is going to be an issue for anyone, I am saying State is going to be willing to match whatever L'Ville would potentially offer if that time were to come. If Keatts wants to go to L'Ville, it is because that is where he wants to be, not because of a pay raise.

You think the board will approve a $5 million salary for a basketball coach at NCSU? I don't think there is ANY scenario where NCSU matches what the richest athletic program in the country would offer. It's laughable to suggest that they could.

(05-08-2017 10:42 AM)BigPack1517 Wrote:  As for transfers, of course that is why transfer restrictions are put it into play, as well as blocking a transfer from playing at future scheduled opponents. My question is, how does blocking a guy from going to State and playing for the coach that recruited him but allowing him to go to some other ACC school protect UNCW's program?

For the same reason employers put non-compete clauses in contracts. UNCW is at a disadvantage so it is the university trying to even the playing field so that we stand a chance. Bryce has already made his mind to transfer, but what if Talley or Cacok are contemplating and in their mind saying evaluating leaving but decided they'd only leave for NCSU? This isn't about Bryce or Keatts, it's to protect UNCW as much as we possibly can.

I know what the board approved this year, and it was not too far from that ball park (in fact, closer than you might think). I assure you if Keatts came in and became the most successful coach since V, State would be willing to go pretty darn high to keep him around. Lot of people forget State has one of Top 5 largest donor bases in the nation.

As I stated earlier, I totally get certain transfer restrictions, but I just can't agree with restricting a guy to go play for the coach that recruited him and obviously someone that he has a strong connection with. Especially coming from someone who was a college athlete with a relationship with the same coaches for four years.

State restricted Rodney Purvis' transfer to Cincy and Missouri because they planned to add them to the schedule in the future. Keatts said he was going to schedule us, so there is a reason that might satisfy your need for an answer.
05-08-2017 11:18 AM
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