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Savannah State headed to D-II
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GreenHornet33 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-13-2017 03:57 PM)panama Wrote:  Savanna State is no canary in the coal mine. They have been a train wreck for years.

They've been bad for a while. Its been almost 20 years since they've had a winning season.
(This post was last modified: 04-13-2017 04:26 PM by GreenHornet33.)
04-13-2017 04:25 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-13-2017 02:38 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  
(04-13-2017 02:31 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-13-2017 02:08 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  
(04-13-2017 02:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 11:48 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  South Carolina State is actually terrible shape too

Not really. Their situation on the administrative side is starting to stabilize somewhat, and while they aren't flush with cash the athletics side isn't anywhere close to digging in couch cushions for change. They aren't even playing a body bag game this year.

SC State has done an outstanding job of getting alums to give back to the school. They've also Been VERY aggressive in recruiting students. SC State's enrollment numbers had dropped significantly in the past years but they've welcomed record setting freshmen classes in 2015 and 2016.

Agreed. They aren't out of the woods by any means but it seems like the changes imposed upon them by the state are making a difference.

They also are considering a move down to D2 athletics. I know a few Bulldogs who are "in the know" at SC State who all say they wouldn't be shocked to see SC State head back to the SIAC. Coppin State is also considering the move down.

If they drop to D2 they'll drop athletics altogether within a decade IMO. They'll still be paying out the nose on travel and as a DII they will not have access to easy money games like against Clemson & South Carolina.
04-13-2017 09:17 PM
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EagleNationRising Online
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Post: #43
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-13-2017 06:36 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 11:12 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 11:07 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 08:47 PM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  
(04-12-2017 07:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Welcome to the SWAC Bethune-Cookman and Florida A&M. This would hurt the two Florida schools since Savannah State was the only MEAC school close to them.


Not really

If anything, the SWAC is gonna join the MEAC. The Mississippi schools sans Jackson State may be next to drop if not a total school closure/merger. TSU went through another corruption scandal, their administration may get taken over or they may lose accreditation (just a hunch, nothing substantiated). Another hunch is I could see Grambling going away or merging with Louisiana Tech. Same with Southern and LSU.


I think Jackson State is turning into a multi-race university, and not truly an HBCU like it used to be. They may survive. One report is that Jackson State will be saved while one of the other schools which I forget, either Alcorn State or Mississippi Valley State would merged into Jackson State. Sadly, the Grambling State Vs Southern U. is the hot game in the SWAC selling out a lot of tickets that are FBS size crowds. Too bad they can't get the fans out to support them when they take on the other SWAC teams.

What does being a Multi Race university have to do with HBCU status? One doesn't have an impact on the other.

Agreed. Technically you can have a school that's 90% white and still be an HBCU.
04-13-2017 09:30 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
HBCU means the school is a land-grant, which was given for the explicit purpose of creating a college for African-Americans.

There is no such thing as a school that "used to be a HBCU".
04-13-2017 09:55 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-13-2017 09:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  HBCU means the school is a land-grant, which was given for the explicit purpose of creating a college for African-Americans.

There is no such thing as a school that "used to be a HBCU".

Actually, the term HBCU is used to describe any school, private or public, that historically served African Americans. There is at least one HBCU's that no longer has a predominantly African American student body, such as West Virginia State and Bluefield State Universities (to be fair, those two institutions are not representative of the typical HBCU student profile today).

Morehouse and Fisk, although private, are HBCU's.

But you are correct in that there's no such thing as 'used to be HBCU'. History is history. Regardless of the student profile today, if they ever were HBCU..they remain so.

On an aside, I've never understood the reluctance of states funding HBCU's properly or the reluctance of non-African American populations from attending some public HBCU's, especially those in areas where there is no local public tertiary option, such as is the case with Jackson State University. Yea, yea, I know the reason why, but at least in the case of Jackson State....why Mississippi never tried to make that the go to option for all Jacksonians who wish to get a degree locally. But then again, none of Mississippi's three largest population centers have a public school option that is local (other than perhaps out of state options that might be quasi-local).
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 12:00 AM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-14-2017 12:00 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
Racism is more ingrained in the Deep South than anywhere else, of course it'd be hard if not impossible to get whites to attend an HBCU.
04-14-2017 12:45 AM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 12:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(04-13-2017 09:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  HBCU means the school is a land-grant, which was given for the explicit purpose of creating a college for African-Americans.

There is no such thing as a school that "used to be a HBCU".

Actually, the term HBCU is used to describe any school, private or public, that historically served African Americans. There is at least one HBCU's that no longer has a predominantly African American student body, such as West Virginia State and Bluefield State Universities (to be fair, those two institutions are not representative of the typical HBCU student profile today).

Morehouse and Fisk, although private, are HBCU's.

But you are correct in that there's no such thing as 'used to be HBCU'. History is history. Regardless of the student profile today, if they ever were HBCU..they remain so.

On an aside, I've never understood the reluctance of states funding HBCU's properly or the reluctance of non-African American populations from attending some public HBCU's, especially those in areas where there is no local public tertiary option, such as is the case with Jackson State University. Yea, yea, I know the reason why, but at least in the case of Jackson State....why Mississippi never tried to make that the go to option for all Jacksonians who wish to get a degree locally. But then again, none of Mississippi's three largest population centers have a public school option that is local (other than perhaps out of state options that might be quasi-local).


Jackson and Hattiesburg are two of the largest cities in the state. Kids these days want to go to a school that have a lot of things to do besides sports. Like movies, dance clubs and so forth. UCF got so many of that. Washington State does not have that. There are shifts in growing student population for schools. I think with the right leadership? Jackson State and others HBCUs could thrive.
04-14-2017 02:09 AM
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Post: #48
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
Eh, HBCU's won't thrive unless they get with the times and attract a more diverse student body. A few do well as is such as Hampton and Howard but not many else.
04-14-2017 02:41 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #49
Exclamation RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-12-2017 07:35 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Welcome to the SWAC Bethune-Cookman and Florida A&M. This would hurt the two Florida schools since Savannah State was the only MEAC school close to them.

Savannah State is just getting a head start on the rest of the MEAC.

I agree FAMU, BCU, and SC State should join the SWAC. Arkansas Pine Bluff will probably drop to D2 as well.

East

Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Bethune Cookman
Florida A&M
Jackson State
South Carolina State

West

Alcorn State
Grambling State
Mississippi Valley
Prairie View A&M
Southern
Texas Southern
04-14-2017 07:03 AM
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GreenHornet33 Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 12:45 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Racism is more ingrained in the Deep South than anywhere else, of course it'd be hard if not impossible to get whites to attend an HBCU.

If you look at the history of HBCUs the majority of us had white graduates and instructors almost a copy century before PWIs in the south did. Poor whites were almost considered just as bad as black so some of them went to HBCUs to obtain a degree. If you look at the schools in the deep south most of the HBCUs had their first white graduate prior to 1900.
04-14-2017 08:00 AM
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GreenHornet33 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 02:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Eh, HBCU's won't thrive unless they get with the times and attract a more diverse student body. A few do well as is such as Hampton and Howard but not many else.

You have schools in the great plains and in the deep South that aren't HBCUs that are thriving just fine. HBCUs have made great strides since the 1980s to increase diversity. And many do well in this area not just Howard and Hampton.
04-14-2017 08:03 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
For every Howard and Hampton, there's at least two MVSU and Alcorn States.
04-14-2017 08:39 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 12:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  On an aside, I've never understood the reluctance of states funding HBCU's properly or the reluctance of non-African American populations from attending some public HBCU's, especially those in areas where there is no local public tertiary option, such as is the case with Jackson State University.

The main public universities serving the Jackson, Miss area are the U of Miss (171mi away), Miss State U (125mi away), and U of S Miss (88mi away).

A state that small, and poor, really doesn't need more public universities than that -- though it has two additional public four year universities (Delta and Women's), and then three HBCU's.


When segregation was alive and well, it made sense that African-Americans would need their own public universities. Those days are long gone. I don't agree that such schools should live on as public schools.

If they want to keep alive the spirit and tradition of being an HBCU, which they obviously all do, then they need to do that as private schools.


(04-14-2017 02:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Eh, HBCU's won't thrive unless they get with the times and attract a more diverse student body. A few do well as is such as Hampton and Howard but not many else.

I take the opposite stance: HBCU's need to carry on that spirit and tradition. But they need to do that as private schools.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 09:16 AM by MplsBison.)
04-14-2017 09:15 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
That's fair. Agreed...
04-14-2017 09:25 AM
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GreenHornet33 Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 09:15 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(04-14-2017 12:00 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  On an aside, I've never understood the reluctance of states funding HBCU's properly or the reluctance of non-African American populations from attending some public HBCU's, especially those in areas where there is no local public tertiary option, such as is the case with Jackson State University.

The main public universities serving the Jackson, Miss area are the U of Miss (171mi away), Miss State U (125mi away), and U of S Miss (88mi away).

A state that small, and poor, really doesn't need more public universities than that -- though it has two additional public four year universities (Delta and Women's), and then three HBCU's.


When segregation was alive and well, it made sense that African-Americans would need their own public universities. Those days are long gone. I don't agree that such schools should live on as public schools.

If they want to keep alive the spirit and tradition of being an HBCU, which they obviously all do, then they need to do that as private schools.


(04-14-2017 02:41 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  Eh, HBCU's won't thrive unless they get with the times and attract a more diverse student body. A few do well as is such as Hampton and Howard but not many else.

I take the opposite stance: HBCU's need to carry on that spirit and tradition. But they need to do that as private schools.



But you have no problem with Predominantly White Institutions and schools that barred blacks from attending up until 50 years ago?
04-14-2017 11:31 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
If the U of Alabama, Auburn, UAB, UAH, USA, UNA, UWA, Troy, Jax St ... all no longer discriminate against African-American applicants, then there is no reason for public money to fund Alabama HBCU's.

That's my opinion. Has zero chance, in Alabama or any HBCU state, I know.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 11:34 AM by MplsBison.)
04-14-2017 11:34 AM
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Post: #57
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 02:09 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Jackson and Hattiesburg are two of the largest cities in the state. Kids these days want to go to a school that have a lot of things to do besides sports. Like movies, dance clubs and so forth. UCF got so many of that. Washington State does not have that. There are shifts in growing student population for schools. I think with the right leadership? Jackson State and others HBCUs could thrive.

Do you really think Arkansas Tech grew from 3,000 to 12,000 because of movies and dance clubs?

Movies can be seen anywhere and there is only one theatre with ten screens in town. Russellville is in a dry county with only one private club (unless the other one that was torn down reopened elsewhere). Athletics didn't help either. Softball was the only sport added during that time. No exposure was gained by being D1 and having our name scrolled on ESPN since we are D2. ATU football did appear twice on ESPN bottomline after being slaughtered by McNeese State and Northwestern State.

What did help ATU grow was added and improved academic programs. The physical campus location is also an advantage that no other Arkansas school has, it is less than 1/2 mile from a major coast-to-coast interstate.
04-14-2017 11:43 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 11:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  If the U of Alabama, Auburn, UAB, UAH, USA, UNA, UWA, Troy, Jax St ... all no longer discriminate against African-American applicants, then there is no reason for public money to fund Alabama HBCU's.

That's my opinion. Has zero chance, in Alabama or any HBCU state, I know.

Why is it the issue of the HBCU's? I'll give you an example. Alabama State University (a HBCU) pre-dates two HWCU's (Auburn Montgomery and Troy Montgomery).

If there's a problem in Montgomery with duplicative programs...that's not on Alabama State.

I promise you, if you'd like to apply for admission at Alabama State or any of the public HBCU's....you'll find zero discrimination against you based upon your race. It might be true that the collegiate culture isn't one that you are familiar with...but that's not discrimination.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 12:05 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-14-2017 12:03 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
They actively market themselves, both to the public and to black students, as a special/unique experience for the black college student, that can't be had elsewhere.

And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I encourage that mission to continue. It's simply not a mission that should be publicly funded, is all.


But sorry Tom, you know darn well that ASU and AAM are not marketing themselves to every student in the state and saying "hey, we're just like Auburn".
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 12:10 PM by MplsBison.)
04-14-2017 12:09 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Savannah State headed to D-II
(04-14-2017 12:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  They actively market themselves, both to the public and to black students, as a special/unique experience for the black college student, that can't be had elsewhere.

And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, I encourage that mission to continue. It's simply not a mission that should be publicly funded, is all.


But sorry Tom, you know darn well that ASU and AAM are not marketing themselves to every student in the state and saying "hey, we're just like Auburn".

Alabama State isn't a peer of Alabama or Auburn. They SHOULD be a peer of USA, UAH, and UAB. But instead of building ASU into a comprehensive University for the entire community, the state of Alabama saw fit to create and fund 'white' competitors for ASU, thus stifling the ability of ASU to compete for non-African American students.

Basically AUM and TSU-M were reactions to integration. They were founded in 1967 and 1965, respectively.

All schools have target markets. USA for example, markets heavily in Biloxi-Gulfport. Alabama State's marketing choices are the proximate result of being shoehorned into a niche by the state's decision to peel off other segments.
(This post was last modified: 04-14-2017 12:18 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
04-14-2017 12:18 PM
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