(04-11-2017 02:42 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 02:40 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  I thought year three at Texas Tech was going to be an NIT year at best, but Smith took a bunch of three star sophomores, some JUCO's, a walk-on, a red shirt junior with bad knees, and a fifth year senior to the NCAA tournament. It can happen.

And as has been said many times - not too many Tiger fans (same usual 6K or whatever) are gonna be on board with a team grinding out a 19-12 record and fringe at-large bid while Memphis kids are elsewhere blowing up.

It's just not gonna happen.

Don't think I made any comments or predictions on what the Tiger fans will be on board with, but thanks for sharing your feelings on the subject.

(04-11-2017 02:48 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 02:42 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 02:40 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  I thought year three at Texas Tech was going to be an NIT year at best, but Smith took a bunch of three star sophomores, some JUCO's, a walk-on, a red shirt junior with bad knees, and a fifth year senior to the NCAA tournament. It can happen.

And as has been said many times - not too many Tiger fans (same usual 6K or whatever) are gonna be on board with a team grinding out a 19-12 record and fringe at-large bid while Memphis kids are elsewhere blowing up.

It's just not gonna happen.

Don't think I made any comments or predictions on what the Tiger fans will be on board with, but thanks for sharing your feelings on the subject.

Anytime fella

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

Maybe we should wait and see how the roster looks.

(04-11-2017 02:40 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

I'm going to take you at your word that this is an honest question, answer it, and then get out before the thread deteriorates into carnage like the others. :-)

Let me say this first. I'm Team Tubby Smith, but I'm not calling anyone trash, especially some college kids. I wish things had worked out for the Lawsons and Smith to co-exist. People make the decisions they think are best for their long term success, players and coaches alike. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not bitter.

For context, when Smith took this job, I looked at the roster and actually thought the team had a shot at the NCAA this past season and most definitely in year two. I saw the Lawsons, Marshall, Martin, and Crawford, and I thought, "Tubby is going to get a lot out of that team." Obviously, it didn't work out that way. When Marshall left, I readjusted my expectations, because I know how much Smith can get out of a talented big man, and I didn't see another center like that on the roster. Still, things were moving along pretty well until the last part of the season. That collapse was troubling. I have my theories on what caused it, but really, who knows? It's in the rear view now, anyway.

Next year's roster is not what was expected at this time last year, and that's a shame. The Lawsons, Martin, and Markel all made marked improvement under Smith and his staff, and I would have expected that trend to continue. Instead, we've got Martin and Rivers coming back (Jimario hopefully with his back issues in the past) and a bunch of new guys. As far as my expectations for next year, it's hard to say with the roster not being completed. Obviously they are looking to add at least another couple of JUCO players and there are a few class of 2017 players that have asked out of their LOI's recently that Smith and staff recruited previously. Maybe they pursue and land a couple of them. I think last year was Smith's first foray into the grad transfer market, but they probably are looking at some of them, too. Bottom line, Smith has coached a long time and only has two losing seasons, both of which came when he took over the mess at Texas Tech. I don't expect next year to be his third.

So, make me take a guess, with the disclaimer that the roster isn't set for next year, and I'll say this:

2017-18: Over .500 record.
2018-19: NIT/NCAA bubble.
2019-20: NCAA Tournament.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I thought year three at Texas Tech was going to be an NIT year at best, but Smith took a bunch of three star sophomores, some JUCO's, a walk-on, a red shirt junior with bad knees, and a fifth year senior to the NCAA tournament. It can happen.

Last comment: I think anyone who identifies as Team Tubby also identifies as Team Memphis.

As always, you are the man.
Go Tigers

(04-11-2017 02:51 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

Maybe we should wait and see how the roster looks.

Fair point.

Maybe, just maybe they will surprise us all tomorrow or in the next few days/weeks with an couple of high level guys that no one thought they could sign.

I have no expectation that they will, but you never know.

Most everyone thought that JP would still be here. Strange things can happen.

(04-11-2017 02:51 PM)GopherTubby Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 02:40 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

I'm going to take you at your word that this is an honest question, answer it, and then get out before the thread deteriorates into carnage like the others. :-)

Let me say this first. I'm Team Tubby Smith, but I'm not calling anyone trash, especially some college kids. I wish things had worked out for the Lawsons and Smith to co-exist. People make the decisions they think are best for their long term success, players and coaches alike. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not bitter.

For context, when Smith took this job, I looked at the roster and actually thought the team had a shot at the NCAA this past season and most definitely in year two. I saw the Lawsons, Marshall, Martin, and Crawford, and I thought, "Tubby is going to get a lot out of that team." Obviously, it didn't work out that way. When Marshall left, I readjusted my expectations, because I know how much Smith can get out of a talented big man, and I didn't see another center like that on the roster. Still, things were moving along pretty well until the last part of the season. That collapse was troubling. I have my theories on what caused it, but really, who knows? It's in the rear view now, anyway.

Next year's roster is not what was expected at this time last year, and that's a shame. The Lawsons, Martin, and Markel all made marked improvement under Smith and his staff, and I would have expected that trend to continue. Instead, we've got Martin and Rivers coming back (Jimario hopefully with his back issues in the past) and a bunch of new guys. As far as my expectations for next year, it's hard to say with the roster not being completed. Obviously they are looking to add at least another couple of JUCO players and there are a few class of 2017 players that have asked out of their LOI's recently that Smith and staff recruited previously. Maybe they pursue and land a couple of them. I think last year was Smith's first foray into the grad transfer market, but they probably are looking at some of them, too. Bottom line, Smith has coached a long time and only has two losing seasons, both of which came when he took over the mess at Texas Tech. I don't expect next year to be his third.

So, make me take a guess, with the disclaimer that the roster isn't set for next year, and I'll say this:

2017-18: Over .500 record.
2018-19: NIT/NCAA bubble.
2019-20: NCAA Tournament.

Maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. I thought year three at Texas Tech was going to be an NIT year at best, but Smith took a bunch of three star sophomores, some JUCO's, a walk-on, a red shirt junior with bad knees, and a fifth year senior to the NCAA tournament. It can happen.

Last comment: I think anyone who identifies as Team Tubby also identifies as Team Memphis.

As always, you are the man.
Go Tigers

Thanks, buddy. Hope all is well with you. Looking forward to some good years of Memphis hoop with Smith at the helm. I think people will be pleasantly surprised.

(04-11-2017 02:42 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 02:40 PM)Motor City Sam Wrote:  I thought year three at Texas Tech was going to be an NIT year at best, but Smith took a bunch of three star sophomores, some JUCO's, a walk-on, a red shirt junior with bad knees, and a fifth year senior to the NCAA tournament. It can happen.

And as has been said many times - not too many Tiger fans (same usual 6K or whatever) are gonna be on board with a team grinding out a 19-12 record and fringe at-large bid while Memphis kids are elsewhere blowing up.

It's just not gonna happen.

UM has a much higher ceiling than Minn. and TT. If Tubby can somehow get this team to an NCAA, showing progress, the Memphis kids will come back.

Personally, I don't expect that to happen. I think Tubby will be gone sooner rather than later, but hoping for a miracle.

(04-11-2017 01:20 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

Honestly, not high expectations.

Year 2 (2017-18) - 14 wins
Year 3 (2018-19) - 18 wins
Year 4 (2019-20) - 24 wins and NCAA tourney

Logical question:

How do you get to 24 wins?

Here is the roster for the 2019-20 season:

Azab
Enoh
Johnson
Nickleberry

And based on history, one of those guys won't be here (maybe two) in three years.

(04-11-2017 03:08 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:20 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

Honestly, not high expectations.

Year 2 (2017-18) - 14 wins
Year 3 (2018-19) - 18 wins
Year 4 (2019-20) - 24 wins and NCAA tourney

Logical question:

How do you get to 24 wins?

Here is the roster for the 2019-20 season:

Azab
Enoh
Johnson
Nickleberry

And based on history, one of those guys won't be here (maybe two) in three years.

Are we assuming he doesn't sign anyone in the next two years? I think he'll land a few good ones and fill the roster out with strong role players.

(04-11-2017 02:36 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 02:24 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:20 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:20 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

Honestly, not high expectations.

Year 1 - 14 wins
Year 2 - 18 wins
Year 3 - 24 wins and NCAA tourney

Year 1 was 19 wins and already happened.

I know your orgasmic love of Orlando sometimes effect you ability to think straight. But you really need to get a refresher course in READING COMPREHENSION.

The question is what do you expect the NEXT few years to be like AFTER he has gutted the program.

Temper.. temper..

He burned it down, saved the university $120k in one swoop. Gotta love it. Now it's time to rebuild this thing.

I have no love for Tubby. Thought he was just an OK hire, not even close to my top 10, but not terrible either. But unless someone here is planning on buying him out, I'm not sure what good it does to cry over spilt milk. He's the coach. Period. I think he has two years to show his way worked. I'm not convinced he can do it, but I'll keep buying my tickets anyway.

It hasn't worked here since Cal left. We've had top 10 recruiting classes and we've got 2 NCAA wins since 2009. We can't keep a player on the team now. I'm not against starting over. They quit last year. Two losses by 71 points? Wtf?

^this

Personally, I never thought that this would be a quick rebuild.

There has been a culture of losing and mediocrity that has infested this program for quite some time. I finally admitted that to myself when I saw our previous coach dancing like a retarded monkey after a last second win at freaking Tulane. I knew it was still there when I saw our two "best" players yukking it up on the sideline as we were getting mollywopped by a million points.

A culture change is necessary. 9 out of 10 times to change the culture you have to change the players.

The thing that pissed me off about Tubby was that he should have set the tone for what he wanted and demanded when he stepped in the door. He could have took his lumps this past year and gotten in as many freshmen for this year and start to build.

Now I feel he is a year behind on a full rebuild.

My original expectations were:
-on the bubble by year two
-in the tournament and maybe a win by year three
-at sweet 16 level by year 4

I am not sure I want to change my expectations but that is not realistic....

However I think now I feel that Tubby should by the end of the upcoming year:
-have a consistently hard nosed defensive team
-have a fluid offensive system where everyone knows their roles
-have a team that won't quit and battle to the end.
-have at least three talented freshmen to come in for 2018 to add to the three freshmen this year for a solid foundation

Then I expect him to be in the tournament the next year with a good class of freshman to go along with the previous six to keep this thing going.

If he can't do that get his a$$ out of here after his third year and start again.

(04-11-2017 03:24 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Personally, I never thought that this would be a quick rebuild.

There has been a culture of losing and mediocrity that has infested this program for quite some time. I finally admitted that to myself when I saw our previous coach dancing like a retarded monkey after a last second win at freaking Tulane. I knew it was still there when I saw our two "best" players yukking it up on the sideline as we were getting mollywopped by a million points.

A culture change is necessary. 9 out of 10 times to change the culture you have to change the players.

The thing that pissed me off about Tubby was that he should have set the tone for what he wanted and demanded when he stepped in the door. He could have took his lumps this past year and gotten in as many freshmen for this year and start to build.

Now I feel he is a year behind on a full rebuild.

My original expectations were:
-on the bubble by year two
-in the tournament and maybe a win by year three
-at sweet 16 level by year 4

I am not sure I want to change my expectations but that is not realistic....

However I think now I feel that Tubby should by the end of the upcoming year:
-have a consistently hard nosed defensive team
-have a fluid offensive system where everyone knows their roles
-have a team that won't quit and battle to the end.
-have at least three talented freshmen to come in for 2018 to add to the three freshmen this year for a solid foundation

Then I expect him to be in the tournament the next year with a good class of freshman to go along with the previous six to keep this thing going.

If he can't do that get his a$$ out of here after his third year and start again.

lol, plus 3 just for the use of 'mollywopped'.

(04-11-2017 03:13 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 03:08 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:20 PM)memtiger1987 Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 01:17 PM)HometownTiger Wrote:  For those of you who are #TeamTubby and are glad that we got rid of the "trash" ... now that he has essentially gutted the roster and is starting with a clean slate, what are your expectations? What does success look like in year 2? Year 3? Etc...

Honest question.

Honestly, not high expectations.

Year 2 (2017-18) - 14 wins
Year 3 (2018-19) - 18 wins
Year 4 (2019-20) - 24 wins and NCAA tourney

Logical question:

How do you get to 24 wins?

Here is the roster for the 2019-20 season:

Azab
Enoh
Johnson
Nickleberry

And based on history, one of those guys won't be here (maybe two) in three years.

Are we assuming he doesn't sign anyone in the next two years? I think he'll land a few good ones and fill the roster out with strong role players.

No. I guess I just mean how can anyone predict a substantial INCREASE in wins when those are the only known variables and recruiting is "development based" at best.

So even the 2018 and 2019 kids (based on Tubby's recruiting history) are likely players that don't really kick in until year three and the nucleus that would be developed in 2019 is likely only two or three players.

(04-11-2017 03:24 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Personally, I never thought that this would be a quick rebuild.

There has been a culture of losing and mediocrity that has infested this program for quite some time. I finally admitted that to myself when I saw our previous coach dancing like a retarded monkey after a last second win at freaking Tulane. I knew it was still there when I saw our two "best" players yukking it up on the sideline as we were getting mollywopped by a million points.

A culture change is necessary. 9 out of 10 times to change the culture you have to change the players.

The thing that pissed me off about Tubby was that he should have set the tone for what he wanted and demanded when he stepped in the door. He could have took his lumps this past year and gotten in as many freshmen for this year and start to build.

Now I feel he is a year behind on a full rebuild.

My original expectations were:
-on the bubble by year two
-in the tournament and maybe a win by year three
-at sweet 16 level by year 4

I am not sure I want to change my expectations but that is not realistic....

However I think now I feel that Tubby should by the end of the upcoming year:
-have a consistently hard nosed defensive team
-have a fluid offensive system where everyone knows their roles
-have a team that won't quit and battle to the end.
-have at least three talented freshmen to come in for 2018 to add to the three freshmen this year for a solid foundation

Then I expect him to be in the tournament the next year with a good class of freshman to go along with the previous six to keep this thing going.

If he can't do that get his a$$ out of here after his third year and start again.

Don't disagree with all this.

Still, seems like a 30+ year coaching vet would have much better contacts and a much better plan.

So far, a trio of 3 star freshman and 2 JCs sure doesn't seem so.

I find it hard to believe that they cannot get in on one graduate transfer worth two craps.

In other words, there is just something really wrong about a rebuild taking 3-4 years in today's college basketball landscape...except for the fact that Tubby wants it that way...he wants to beat down the expectations and wants to do it his good old fashioned way.

Very few places that will work at, mostly football focused power schools.

What we had didn't work. Give this a shot. If it doesn't work eithet I expect I won't be happy. If it does, I expect I will be happy. The rest of it it is outside the sphere of contol of my state of happiness.

(04-11-2017 03:30 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 03:24 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Personally, I never thought that this would be a quick rebuild.

There has been a culture of losing and mediocrity that has infested this program for quite some time. I finally admitted that to myself when I saw our previous coach dancing like a retarded monkey after a last second win at freaking Tulane. I knew it was still there when I saw our two "best" players yukking it up on the sideline as we were getting mollywopped by a million points.

A culture change is necessary. 9 out of 10 times to change the culture you have to change the players.

The thing that pissed me off about Tubby was that he should have set the tone for what he wanted and demanded when he stepped in the door. He could have took his lumps this past year and gotten in as many freshmen for this year and start to build.

Now I feel he is a year behind on a full rebuild.

My original expectations were:
-on the bubble by year two
-in the tournament and maybe a win by year three
-at sweet 16 level by year 4

I am not sure I want to change my expectations but that is not realistic....

However I think now I feel that Tubby should by the end of the upcoming year:
-have a consistently hard nosed defensive team
-have a fluid offensive system where everyone knows their roles
-have a team that won't quit and battle to the end.
-have at least three talented freshmen to come in for 2018 to add to the three freshmen this year for a solid foundation

Then I expect him to be in the tournament the next year with a good class of freshman to go along with the previous six to keep this thing going.

If he can't do that get his a$$ out of here after his third year and start again.

Don't disagree with all this.

Still, seems like a 30+ year coaching vet would have much better contacts and a much better plan.

So far, a trio of 3 star freshman and 2 JCs sure doesn't seem so.

I find it hard to believe that they cannot get in on one graduate transfer worth two craps.

In other words, there is just something really wrong about a rebuild taking 3-4 years in today's college basketball landscape...except for the fact that Tubby wants it that way...he wants to beat down the expectations and wants to do it his good old fashioned way.

Very few places that will work at, mostly football focused power schools.

Don't sweat it. There's still an on campus open tryout coming. We'll pick up some playahs there.

(04-11-2017 03:43 PM)bluebacker Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 03:30 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 03:24 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Personally, I never thought that this would be a quick rebuild.

There has been a culture of losing and mediocrity that has infested this program for quite some time. I finally admitted that to myself when I saw our previous coach dancing like a retarded monkey after a last second win at freaking Tulane. I knew it was still there when I saw our two "best" players yukking it up on the sideline as we were getting mollywopped by a million points.

A culture change is necessary. 9 out of 10 times to change the culture you have to change the players.

The thing that pissed me off about Tubby was that he should have set the tone for what he wanted and demanded when he stepped in the door. He could have took his lumps this past year and gotten in as many freshmen for this year and start to build.

Now I feel he is a year behind on a full rebuild.

My original expectations were:
-on the bubble by year two
-in the tournament and maybe a win by year three
-at sweet 16 level by year 4

I am not sure I want to change my expectations but that is not realistic....

However I think now I feel that Tubby should by the end of the upcoming year:
-have a consistently hard nosed defensive team
-have a fluid offensive system where everyone knows their roles
-have a team that won't quit and battle to the end.
-have at least three talented freshmen to come in for 2018 to add to the three freshmen this year for a solid foundation

Then I expect him to be in the tournament the next year with a good class of freshman to go along with the previous six to keep this thing going.

If he can't do that get his a$$ out of here after his third year and start again.

Don't disagree with all this.

Still, seems like a 30+ year coaching vet would have much better contacts and a much better plan.

So far, a trio of 3 star freshman and 2 JCs sure doesn't seem so.

I find it hard to believe that they cannot get in on one graduate transfer worth two craps.

In other words, there is just something really wrong about a rebuild taking 3-4 years in today's college basketball landscape...except for the fact that Tubby wants it that way...he wants to beat down the expectations and wants to do it his good old fashioned way.

Very few places that will work at, mostly football focused power schools.

Don't sweat it. There's still an on campus open tryout coming. We'll pick up some playahs there.

I already called it - Johnathan Bins and/or Kytrel Williams getting minutes this year.

(04-11-2017 03:30 PM)72Tiger Wrote:  What we had didn't work. Give this a shot. If it doesn't work eithet I expect I won't be happy. If it does, I expect I will be happy. The rest of it it is outside the sphere of contol of my state of happiness.

My concern is that he couldn't even "burn it down" right.

If you burn it down, you go YOUNG. You get traditional transfers, not grad trans in year one. You try to avoid JUCOs, unless you can get a three year JUCO.

The staff failed miserably to shore up the roster that was only about 4 wins away from an at-large. You then have a whole recruiting cycle to stock up on frosh but could only snag three in the early period and couldn't get any in the late period.

So, by default, they've had to scramble for JUCO's--and again, that is a band aid on a bullet wound.

So now, they will likely go into the 17-18 season with only three or so scholarships for 2018. THEN, have six or seven in 2019--which then REALLY starts the rebuild.

(04-11-2017 03:30 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(04-11-2017 03:24 PM)Blackman Wrote:  Personally, I never thought that this would be a quick rebuild.

There has been a culture of losing and mediocrity that has infested this program for quite some time. I finally admitted that to myself when I saw our previous coach dancing like a retarded monkey after a last second win at freaking Tulane. I knew it was still there when I saw our two "best" players yukking it up on the sideline as we were getting mollywopped by a million points.

A culture change is necessary. 9 out of 10 times to change the culture you have to change the players.

The thing that pissed me off about Tubby was that he should have set the tone for what he wanted and demanded when he stepped in the door. He could have took his lumps this past year and gotten in as many freshmen for this year and start to build.

Now I feel he is a year behind on a full rebuild.

My original expectations were:
-on the bubble by year two
-in the tournament and maybe a win by year three
-at sweet 16 level by year 4

I am not sure I want to change my expectations but that is not realistic....

However I think now I feel that Tubby should by the end of the upcoming year:
-have a consistently hard nosed defensive team
-have a fluid offensive system where everyone knows their roles
-have a team that won't quit and battle to the end.
-have at least three talented freshmen to come in for 2018 to add to the three freshmen this year for a solid foundation

Then I expect him to be in the tournament the next year with a good class of freshman to go along with the previous six to keep this thing going.

If he can't do that get his a$$ out of here after his third year and start again.

Don't disagree with all this.

Still, seems like a 30+ year coaching vet would have much better contacts and a much better plan.

So far, a trio of 3 star freshman and 2 JCs sure doesn't seem so.

I find it hard to believe that they cannot get in on one graduate transfer worth two craps.

In other words, there is just something really wrong about a rebuild taking 3-4 years in today's college basketball landscape...except for the fact that Tubby wants it that way...he wants to beat down the expectations and wants to do it his good old fashioned way.

Very few places that will work at, mostly football focused power schools.

I can agree with most of that...

But Tubby made some bad choices due to his lack of desire to win or arrogance to do it exactly his way and it ended up blowing up in his face.

He had some talent and if they could have had the same recruiting class as they do now they may have been able to meet your expectations of being on the bubble or in the tourney in year 2.

The laughing by the Lawsons I am sure came from the poisonous relationship that was fostered by an entire year of an unhappy employee who had more influence over the teams best players than the head coach. Tubby chose to make that relationship poisonous.