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Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
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PeteTheChop Offline
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Post: #1
Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
Obviously, "resources" has a subjective definition, but let's refer here to the components we can all agree it takes to be successful in D-I athletics, i.e.: $$$, fan support, $$$, facilities, $$$, tradition, $$$, location, $$$, media exposure, $$$, etc.

If I've left something out — and I'm sure I have — feel free to mention it and factor it in your rankings.

For the sake of consistency, rate all Division I programs in your state on a 10-point scale with the school(s) at the top, resource-wise, automatically being a 10 and then the scores of the rest in relation to the top.

MISSISSIPPI (6 Division I programs)

10 — Mississippi/Mississippi State (SEC)
Not much of a difference here. Ole Miss has traditionally been the school of the elite in this state and may have a small edge money-wise, but it seems like MSU has more widespread support across the state. Overall and FWIW, in football and men's basketball, State has generally had more success signing the top in-state prospects in the past 20 years.

5 — Southern Miss (C-USA)
I don't know that the gap has ever been wider, resource-wise, between Mississippi's two SEC schools and the Golden Eagles. The changing media landscape, Conference USA's declining profile and the suddenly crowded landscape of mid-major football programs in the South have all chipped away at USM's stature as a widely respected giant killer. Not sure those days are ever coming back, either.

2.5 — Jackson State (SWAC)
There has been talk from time to time that JSU might leave its HBCU home since 1958, but the school's resources are limited even as the only D-I school in the state's largest city. The university's administrative issues have been a problem for years.

1.5 — Alcorn State (SWAC)
Very remote location and sparse resources.

1.0 — Mississippi Valley State (SWAC)
Pretty much the same situation as Alcorn but with less tradition as an institution. There's been talk of closure for years. It wouldn't be a shock if it happened in the next decade.
04-09-2017 08:22 AM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #2
RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
It's kind of difficult to do here because of the stark difference between Football and Basketball some places, but I'll give it a try...

TOP TIER
North Carolina
NC State
Duke

All have multiple national championships in basketball and a wide state-wide following. Duke and UNC in particular have a large number within the fan base with no ties to the school other than geography.

SECOND TIER
Wake Forest
East Carolina

The large, passionate fan base helps ECU keep pace with Wake Forest, a small school where a large percentage of graduates leave the state after graduation, despite the latter's P5 conference affiliation.

MIDDLE TIER
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Davidson

Davidson is a good school that has gotten a lot more attention post-Steph Curry. A move to the A-10 also has helped their profile. Charlotte is known mainly for their basketball program, and should move up the ranks as their football improves. Appalachian can draw 30K to their football games and has been very successful in both FCS and now FBS.

THE REST

Campbell
Elon
Gardner-Webb
High Point
NC A&T
NC Central
UNC Asheville
UNC Greensboro
UNC Wilmington
Western Carolina

I don't really know enough about these schools to sort them out in to two or three ore tiers like I'd like to. There are a lot of D1 schools in this state!
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2017 08:54 AM by Chappy.)
04-09-2017 08:53 AM
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dayooper Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
Michigan. Since there are seven D1 schools in Michigan, I won't list any ties and try to give reasoning for each.

1. University of Michigan - Almost unlimited resources. Home football game revenues are gigantic and they have a huge donor base. Michigan football is taking a trip to Rome and a donor paid for the entire trip!

2. Michigan State - Right up there with Michigan, but they don't have the home football game revenues and the donor base. Otherwise, the Spartans are on par with Their neighbors to the south.

3. Western Michigan - The Broncos aren't close to the two Big10 teams, but have the most resources of the three MAC schools. Huge school that has a good hockey program and was willing to pay out to keep PJ Fleck as their football coach.

4. Central Michigan - The Chips are in a great place for what they have. Will always lag behind their rival WMU, but they do well for themselves.

5. Eastern Michigan - They have a really good debate team.

6. Oakland - Growing school (just opened a med school) in one of the most wealthy areas of Michigan (Oakland County), they have the resources to compete in the Horizon league.

7. Detroit Mercy - Like many small, private schools in the state, they are struggling a bit.
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2017 09:23 AM by dayooper.)
04-09-2017 09:21 AM
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Georgia_Power_Company Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
In Georgia I would say:

10 University of Georgia - The Bulldogs gobble up most of the resources in the state and because of the structure of Georgia's Board of Regents all of the state schools come second or third behind UGA.

8 Georgia Tech - The Yellow Jackets get a lot of support from the BOR as well but still fall second to UGA. Being in the ACC and also in the Atlanta market does help them and they are certainly not hurting for money.

6 Georgia State - The Panthers fall a distant third in support from the BOR but they have a huge enrollment and benefit from being in the rich Atlanta market as well. A recent merger with Georgia Perimeter has made them one of the largest schools in the country.

5 Georgia Southern - The Eagles probably get about as much support as Georgia State from the BOR but are not in a rich market. The school is close to Savannah which helps and is the only FBS school in south Georgia which does raise it's profile regionally. In the next few years GS is set to absorb Armstrong St which will give Georgia Southern campuses in three south Georgia cities and raise enrollment by about 30%.

4 Mercer - The Bears are a private school with a rich history and deep pockets. They have all of the resources needed to compete in a Mid-Major FCS conference like the SoCon.

3 Kennesaw State - I don't know as much about Kennesaw St as I do some of the other schools but they do fall well below the FBS schools in the state in terms of resources. Kennesaw also recently merged with another school and has an enrollment of over 30,000 so I have a feeling their profile is on the way up.

1 Savannah State - A HBCU in Savannah this school is notoriously mismanaged and even though they are located in a decent metropolitan area get little support from the community. The state BOR supports Savannah St at the same level as all of it's other mid-tier (most not Div 1) universities but with Georgia Southern currently right down the road and about to move next door (after merging with Armstrong St) they are hurting.
04-09-2017 09:40 AM
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sctvman Online
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
SC has 12 Division I programs, more than almost any state of our size (less than 5 million population). They are at varying rates of resources, but the big schools, of course are at the top.

1a. South Carolina (10)- SEC money has helped to make Carolina one of the fastest growing ADs in the country. Before the SEC (25 years ago), it was a school with no identity. Now, it is doing well in most sports, with the basketball success only helping.

1b. Clemson (10)- Basically no gap between Carolina and Clemson. Clemson's football facilities rival a couple of the NFL teams. Their football money allowed them to renovate their baseball stadium and basketball arena, and the school's prestige has only grown since Dabo came in.

Huge gap

3. Coastal Carolina (probably a 6): Coastal has become the #3 in the past few years, with the baseball national title, football going to Sun Belt, more media coverage, and the new basketball arena. As recently as the late 2000s, CCU was probably 6 or 7.

4. The Citadel (5): Citadel has a lot of resources for a FCS. Large football stadium, a league (the SoCon) which they can do very well in after schools like App and Georgia Southern left, lots of old money alums who spend a lot of money into the program.

5. Wofford (5): A school with a small enrollment that does very well. Has been very consistent in football and basketball the last 20 years, has Jerry Richardson (Panthers owner)'s backing, with a arena named after him, and Panthers training camp.

6. Furman (5): Another school with a lot of money headed to it. Has added lacrosse in the last few years, growing market, and many of the same resources as The Citadel (Furman's long-standing rival).

7. College of Charleston (5): Growing program. 2/3 female students, has no football team, but has grown in prestige with the new basketball arena, and their conference move has helped them recruit students throughout the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast.

4-7 is interchangeable. There is a gap though to the rest.

8. Winthrop (4): Basically a men's basketball school to most observers, but good in soccer and other sports. Stuck in the shadow of other Charlotte area schools. Sends out a lot of teachers.

9. Presbyterian (3.5): Small school in a small town (40 miles from Greenville, 60 from Columbia). Hasn't really had success in most sports since they moved to D1. Does have a pharmacy school and some well-to-do alums.

10. Charleston Southern (3): The third school in Charleston. Football has improved over the past few years, but basketball still plays in 900 seat gym. Just lost their head coach to a coordinator position at Coastal. Doesn't have a lot of resources, but have done pretty well with what they have.

11. USC-Upstate (2.5): Basically an outlier. Only SC school in A-Sun, and hasn't grown an identity since they joined D1 about a decade ago. Still treated as a "branch campus" by Columbia.

12. SC State (2): Has been a threat of closing at pretty much all times over the past decade. Came very close to happening, but school has stabilized over the past year. Football program does well, but basketball draws poor attendance, and has no baseball program.

Some of the D2s in SC actually do very well. Newberry, Francis Marion, and USC-Aiken would possibly be D1s in other states.
04-09-2017 10:08 AM
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Rube Dali Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
Minnesota is very simple:

1. University of Minnesota

No need to do anyone else because none will ever move up to D-I.
04-09-2017 10:29 AM
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Lenvillecards Online
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Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
Kentucky would have to be a 10 due to fan support.

Louisville would be a 9.

WKU around a 5.

Morehead around a 3.

Murray & EKU about a 2 or 2.5, not far behind Morehead.
04-09-2017 10:39 AM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
UVA
VT


ODU
VCU

JMU
Richmond

W&M
GMU

Something like that
04-09-2017 10:52 AM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
I grew up in Iowa but live in Illinois, so I will try to do both without doing any research whatsoever.

1. Iowa
2. Iowa State
3. UNI
4. Drake

1. Illinois
2. NW
3. Depaul (with new BB arena)
4. Bradley
5. LOYOLA
6. NIU
7. Illinois St
8. SIU
9. UIC
10. EIU
11. WIU
12. Chicago St
(This post was last modified: 04-09-2017 04:05 PM by goofus.)
04-09-2017 11:04 AM
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Kaplony Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 10:08 AM)sctvman Wrote:  SC has 12 Division I programs, more than almost any state of our size (less than 5 million population). They are at varying rates of resources, but the big schools, of course are at the top.

1a. South Carolina (10)- SEC money has helped to make Carolina one of the fastest growing ADs in the country. Before the SEC (25 years ago), it was a school with no identity. Now, it is doing well in most sports, with the basketball success only helping.

1b. Clemson (10)- Basically no gap between Carolina and Clemson. Clemson's football facilities rival a couple of the NFL teams. Their football money allowed them to renovate their baseball stadium and basketball arena, and the school's prestige has only grown since Dabo came in.

Huge gap

3. Coastal Carolina (probably a 6): Coastal has become the #3 in the past few years, with the baseball national title, football going to Sun Belt, more media coverage, and the new basketball arena. As recently as the late 2000s, CCU was probably 6 or 7.

4. The Citadel (5): Citadel has a lot of resources for a FCS. Large football stadium, a league (the SoCon) which they can do very well in after schools like App and Georgia Southern left, lots of old money alums who spend a lot of money into the program.

5. Wofford (5): A school with a small enrollment that does very well. Has been very consistent in football and basketball the last 20 years, has Jerry Richardson (Panthers owner)'s backing, with a arena named after him, and Panthers training camp.

6. Furman (5): Another school with a lot of money headed to it. Has added lacrosse in the last few years, growing market, and many of the same resources as The Citadel (Furman's long-standing rival).

7. College of Charleston (5): Growing program. 2/3 female students, has no football team, but has grown in prestige with the new basketball arena, and their conference move has helped them recruit students throughout the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast.

4-7 is interchangeable. There is a gap though to the rest.

8. Winthrop (4): Basically a men's basketball school to most observers, but good in soccer and other sports. Stuck in the shadow of other Charlotte area schools. Sends out a lot of teachers.

9. Presbyterian (3.5): Small school in a small town (40 miles from Greenville, 60 from Columbia). Hasn't really had success in most sports since they moved to D1. Does have a pharmacy school and some well-to-do alums.

10. Charleston Southern (3): The third school in Charleston. Football has improved over the past few years, but basketball still plays in 900 seat gym. Just lost their head coach to a coordinator position at Coastal. Doesn't have a lot of resources, but have done pretty well with what they have.

11. USC-Upstate (2.5): Basically an outlier. Only SC school in A-Sun, and hasn't grown an identity since they joined D1 about a decade ago. Still treated as a "branch campus" by Columbia.

12. SC State (2): Has been a threat of closing at pretty much all times over the past decade. Came very close to happening, but school has stabilized over the past year. Football program does well, but basketball draws poor attendance, and has no baseball program.

Some of the D2s in SC actually do very well. Newberry, Francis Marion, and USC-Aiken would possibly be D1s in other states.

Overall I agree with this. The only thing I would do different is take PC from #9 and probably place them with Upstate and SC State in a three way tie at the bottom. They definitely aren't ahead of Chuck South.
04-09-2017 12:08 PM
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TerpsNPhoenix Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 08:53 AM)Chappy Wrote:  It's kind of difficult to do here because of the stark difference between Football and Basketball some places, but I'll give it a try...

THE REST

Elon
High Point
NC A&T
UNC Greensboro


I don't really know enough about these schools to sort them out in to two or three ore tiers like I'd like to. There are a lot of D1 schools in this state!

I have at least a little idea about the 4 in bold. I know the most about Elon as an alum.

fan support, facilities, tradition, location, $$$, media exposure

I'd probably put A&T 1st. Tradition (A&T homecoming is NUTS). Exposure/support
UNCG - similar to A&T without as much tradition or other categories.
Elon (could flip Elon & UNCG but UNCG & AT have better media exposure (location in media footprint)/tradition.
High Point - if UNCG is a lesser version of A&T. HP is a slightly lesser version of Elon

Elon has some nice facilities. They are currently building a new basketball/volleyball facility which will be pretty nice compared to what we have now (Schar Center fly through) It has money. It is not incurring debt with this and as a private school, doesn't get state funding. It needs work on fan support and media exposure. It also needs work in the way of tradition. The location is nice (IMHO, not a big fan of cities). Women's lacrosse is the newest program (4 years old). Potential for mens lacrosse exists but probably not going to happen in the immediate future (unless the new president says so).
04-09-2017 12:14 PM
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sctvman Online
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Post: #12
RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
It depends on the area in NC you're talking about. UNCW has a very good following in the Wilmington area, being the only school there, but Wilmington doesn't have the largest population (a county of 280K, but a lot of Brunswick County also is a part of the Wilmington market).

Those 8 schools are clearly above the rest, but #9 depends on the year. I think UNCW had that in the last couple of years with Keatts and the basketball program improving and baseball doing well, but Keatts now is at NC State. We'll have to see how they do with their new coach from UNC, C.B. McGrath.
04-09-2017 01:29 PM
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BirdstheWord Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 11:04 AM)goofus Wrote:  I grew up in Iowa but live in Illinois, so I will try to do both without doing any research whatsoever.

1. Iowa
2. Iowa State
3. UNI
4. Drake

1. Illinois
2. NW
3. Depaul (with new BB arena)
4. Bradley
5. LOYOLA
6. NIU
6. Illinois St
7. SIU
8. UIC
9. Loyola
10. EIU
11. WIU
12. Chicago St

Why is Loyola on there twice in two very different locations?
04-09-2017 02:16 PM
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goofus Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 02:16 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 11:04 AM)goofus Wrote:  I grew up in Iowa but live in Illinois, so I will try to do both without doing any research whatsoever.

1. Iowa
2. Iowa State
3. UNI
4. Drake

1. Illinois
2. NW
3. Depaul (with new BB arena)
4. Bradley
5. LOYOLA
6. NIU
6. Illinois St
7. SIU
8. UIC
9. Loyola
10. EIU
11. WIU
12. Chicago St

Why is Loyola on there twice in two very different locations?

Lol I will fix it.
04-09-2017 04:04 PM
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Captain Bearcat Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 10:39 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  Kentucky would have to be a 10 due to fan support.

Louisville would be a 9.

WKU around a 5.

Morehead around a 3.

Murray & EKU about a 2 or 2.5, not far behind Morehead.

I'm guessing you skipped NKU because you consider them an Ohio team? 05-nono Ok, I'll include them in Ohio

10 - Ohio State - Probably tied for #1 in the country with Texas and Michigan

8 - Cincinnati - compared to P5s in similar size regions (like Iowa, Oregon, and West Virginia), large fan base when their winning, but a smaller core of die-hards. Institutional commitment to football and basketball.

6 - Dayton - possibly the biggest basketball-only fanbase in the country
6 - Xavier - Big East money and more luxury boxes, but smaller fanbase than Dayton
(note -for basketball, Dayton and Xavier have almost equal resources to Cincinnati)

5 - Ohio
5 - Toledo
4.5 - Akron
4.5 - Kent
4.5 - Miami - they used to be tied with Xavier, but they've really fallen off the map
4 - Bowling Green
4 - Northern Kentucky - easily the best arena of the Horizon schools
4 - Youngstown State - the Tressel machine has given them a fair amount of resources for athletics.
3 - Cleveland State
2 - Wright State
04-09-2017 04:24 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
In PA it's deceptive. PSU is PSU, and Pitt is close behind, but, honestly, if UPenn ever wanted in on the game, those other two wouldn't be able to compete. Penn's a monster.

I think it could be the same for Lehigh...there's money there...they choose to be thrifty.

As is, I'd rank them:

1. PSU
2. Pitt
3. Villanova
4. Temple
5. Penn
6. Lehigh
7. St. Joes
8. Lafayette
9. Bucknell
10. Duquesne
11. Robert Morris
12. La Salle
13. Drexel
14. St. Francis

FWIW, I think Lafayette and Bucknell could outspend Temple and Villanova, too, if they wanted to, but choose not to.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2017 02:24 PM by The Cutter of Bish.)
04-09-2017 04:25 PM
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 04:04 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 02:16 PM)BirdstheWord Wrote:  
(04-09-2017 11:04 AM)goofus Wrote:  I grew up in Iowa but live in Illinois, so I will try to do both without doing any research whatsoever.

1. Iowa
2. Iowa State
3. UNI
4. Drake

1. Illinois
2. NW
3. Depaul (with new BB arena)
4. Bradley
5. LOYOLA
6. NIU
6. Illinois St
7. SIU
8. UIC
9. Loyola
10. EIU
11. WIU
12. Chicago St

Why is Loyola on there twice in two very different locations?

Lol I will fix it.

Good, but you left out SIU-e.
04-09-2017 04:39 PM
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
(04-09-2017 09:21 AM)dayooper Wrote:  Michigan. Since there are seven D1 schools in Michigan, I won't list any ties and try to give reasoning for each.

1. University of Michigan - Almost unlimited resources. Home football game revenues are gigantic and they have a huge donor base. Michigan football is taking a trip to Rome and a donor paid for the entire trip!

2. Michigan State - Right up there with Michigan, but they don't have the home football game revenues and the donor base. Otherwise, the Spartans are on par with Their neighbors to the south.

3. Western Michigan - The Broncos aren't close to the two Big10 teams, but have the most resources of the three MAC schools. Huge school that has a good hockey program and was willing to pay out to keep PJ Fleck as their football coach.

4. Central Michigan - The Chips are in a great place for what they have. Will always lag behind their rival WMU, but they do well for themselves.

5. Eastern Michigan - They have a really good debate team.

6. Oakland - Growing school (just opened a med school) in one of the most wealthy areas of Michigan (Oakland County), they have the resources to compete in the Horizon league.

7. Detroit Mercy - Like many small, private schools in the state, they are struggling a bit.
+1

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04-09-2017 06:36 PM
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Stugray2 Online
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RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
CA returns 79 schools in NCAA and NAIA. You can go through it yourself at https://ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/

You can compare 4 at a time and get the numbers. No single total on expenses. You have to add recruiting (M & W), operations (M & W), Team (M & W) and unspecified expenses to arrive at the complete total for a school.

"unlimited funding"
USC
Stanford
"nearly $100m funding"
UC-Los Angeles
UC-Berkeley (for Cal this $95m figure includes huge in stadium debt service, leading to a $9m shortfall)
"$50m funding range"
SDSU
"30-40m funding range"
CSU-Fresno
UC-Davis
SJSU
"20-25m range guessing the order, SCU probably first however"
CSU-Sacramento
Santa Clara
San Diego
San Francisco
"$13-19m range -- not in order"
Cal Poly San Luis Obispo
CSU-Long Beach
UC-Irvine
UC-Santa Barbara
CSU-Northridge
CSU-Fullerton
Pepperdine
Pacific
Loyola Marymount
UC-San Diego
CSU-Bakersfield

There are another 15+ D-II schools spending $3-6m range
CSU-LA, CSU-San Bernadino, HSU, SSU CSU-Monterey Bay, Cal Poly Pomona ... etc.
04-09-2017 07:03 PM
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Love and Honor Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Rank Division I programs in your state in terms of resources
For my home state of Missouri, I don't know Florida well enough to make an accurate assumption.

Mizzou


Missouri State
SLU

UMKC
SEMO

Lindenwood
Central Missouri
NW Missouri State
Everyone else
04-09-2017 08:25 PM
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