(04-04-2017 10:30 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 03:27 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 02:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Penny Hardaway waited outside a locker room back in February, across the court from where Memphis Coach Tubby Smith and assistant Joe Esposito had just watched East High School boys’ basketball team deliver another resounding victory, and admitted the players he coaches now are not like he was growing up in this city.

“It’s not the same as it was. Kids, they’ll go away so quickly,” Hardaway said. “We never thought about going away. We always wanted to be at home because it was a one-team town. Now, the new generation, they want to leave before they stay home, which is sad. We have to get that back.”

If we were Top 25 every year and filling the Forum, then I'm quite confident many local kids would stay. Have to give them a reason to want to stay.

Agree. Calipari's success here made Pastner's job very easy in attracting the best local talent. Pastner's lack of effectively coaching that talent dropped us out of the national picture and hence, local recruits started looking elsewhere. We need a good salesman coach, like Kirk or Calipari, to sell the dream, the vision, to these recruits of what our program can be again. Tubby is a good BB fundamentals coach but I think we may need more than that to once again generate excitement about Memphis BB.

That probably doesn't give Coach Pastner enough credit. Coach Cal set us up as a national brand - in part through WWW and whatever shoe connections - but he made his Memphis reputation on the backs of one recruiting class and D Rose. None of that had to do with Memphis per se. Shawne was the only one out of that whole run that had Memphis ties (I guess Andre Allen, too), and Cal purposely limited his Memphis recruiting. Josh went back to recruiting heavily in Memphis, and it probably cost him his job. Joe and Tarik never seemed happy, Adonis looked good up until his injury and then never looked the same, and Austin apparently doesn't like to play bball.

(04-04-2017 10:30 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 03:27 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 02:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

If we were Top 25 every year and filling the Forum, then I'm quite confident many local kids would stay. Have to give them a reason to want to stay.

Agree. Calipari's success here made Pastner's job very easy in attracting the best local talent. Pastner's lack of effectively coaching that talent dropped us out of the national picture and hence, local recruits started looking elsewhere. We need a good salesman coach, like Kirk or Calipari, to sell the dream, the vision, to these recruits of what our program can be again. Tubby is a good BB fundamentals coach but I think we may need more than that to once again generate excitement about Memphis BB.

Yep. But, IMO, the bigger long-term problem for the Tigers is the success, thank God, of our NBA team. Kirk didn't have to deal with it. Cal certainly didn't have to deal with a Grizz franchise going to the playoffs for 7 straight years.

My teenage son and his friends follow the Grizz, wear Grizz gear. My then 7 and 8 year old son went with me to the Ohio State Elite 8 game in San Antonio in '07 and the Kansas game in Houston in '08. And today, I can't drag him to a Tiger basketball game. We go to all the football games. But, to generalize, his age group is not interested in Tiger hoops.

Not saying the young generation can't be won back, but I think it will take years of sustained success.

This is the saddest comment for the city of Memphis basketball, just to hear this.

(04-04-2017 11:43 PM)Steve davis Wrote:  This is the saddest comment for the city of Memphis basketball, just to hear this.

Makes me sad, too, Steve. But it's true. I'm 53, and I feel like the young guy at a Tiger basketball game.

In '08, we lived in Southlake, TX. D/FW area. So I called the school on Friday to tell them my son wouldn't be in school on Monday or Tuesday if Memphis won on Saturday. Lady in principal's office said, "Oh, we know that already, your son is wearing his Memphis shirt, and has told everyone in the school that he will be there to see Memphis win the championship on Monday." And his elementary school was huge.

(04-04-2017 11:15 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 10:30 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 03:27 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 02:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

If we were Top 25 every year and filling the Forum, then I'm quite confident many local kids would stay. Have to give them a reason to want to stay.

Agree. Calipari's success here made Pastner's job very easy in attracting the best local talent. Pastner's lack of effectively coaching that talent dropped us out of the national picture and hence, local recruits started looking elsewhere. We need a good salesman coach, like Kirk or Calipari, to sell the dream, the vision, to these recruits of what our program can be again. Tubby is a good BB fundamentals coach but I think we may need more than that to once again generate excitement about Memphis BB.

Yep. But, IMO, the bigger long-term problem for the Tigers is the success, thank God, of our NBA team. Kirk didn't have to deal with it. Cal certainly didn't have to deal with a Grizz franchise going to the playoffs for 7 straight years.

My teenage son and his friends follow the Grizz, wear Grizz gear. My then 7 and 8 year old son went with me to the Ohio State Elite 8 game in San Antonio in '07 and the Kansas game in Houston in '08. And today, I can't drag him to a Tiger basketball game. We go to all the football games. But, to generalize, his age group is not interested in Tiger hoops.

Not saying the young generation can't be won back, but I think it will take years of sustained success.

Interesting. Disappointing, but interesting.

When Penny was recruited, college BB was in its golden years. The 1980s were the greatest years in college BB history. In another thread, we discussed how when Phi Slamma Jamma played Georgetown, Akeem the Dream (they actually had nicknames they were so well known....as COLLEGE players) was in his 3rd year and Patrick Ewing was in his 3rd year as well.

The ESPN special on the Big East illustrated how much college BB grew as a result of cable in the 1980s. The 1989 championship between Seton Hall and Michigan was unreal and that game was populated with many well-known 3rd and 4th year players.

Point being is this: the college game is not nearly what it used to be and it isn't going to come back anytime soon. Cal understands it better than anybody and recognizes that today's HS seniors do NOT think of college as anything more than a 1-year hiatus from the NBA.

When Penny was in HS, there were 23 teams in the NBA and each had 11-man rosters. There were around 250 jobs in the NBA.

Today, there are 30 teams in the NBA with 15-man rosters or 450 jobs in the NBA and the Euro League and China pay very, very good money AND the NBADL pays excellent money for some poor kids from Memphis.

Any very good HSer doesn't think of college BB as much of anything other than a stepping-stone to the Pros, whether it be the NBA, NBADL, China or the Euro Leagues. The problem for us was that CJP didn't turn the very good Memphians into NBA'ers or good-paying jobs or elsewhere.

Memphis HS seniors were 9 years old when we went to the Finals. We haven't had a Sweet 16 in 8 years and throw in the fact that the Grizz have made the playoffs for almost as long as the Tigers haven't been to the Sweet 16 and you can see why Penny is saying what he is saying.

Tiger BB needs some excitement and there hasn't been too much lately.

(04-04-2017 11:08 PM)Trapper John Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 10:30 PM)presskh Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 03:27 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 02:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Penny Hardaway waited outside a locker room back in February, across the court from where Memphis Coach Tubby Smith and assistant Joe Esposito had just watched East High School boys’ basketball team deliver another resounding victory, and admitted the players he coaches now are not like he was growing up in this city.

“It’s not the same as it was. Kids, they’ll go away so quickly,” Hardaway said. “We never thought about going away. We always wanted to be at home because it was a one-team town. Now, the new generation, they want to leave before they stay home, which is sad. We have to get that back.”

If we were Top 25 every year and filling the Forum, then I'm quite confident many local kids would stay. Have to give them a reason to want to stay.

Agree. Calipari's success here made Pastner's job very easy in attracting the best local talent. Pastner's lack of effectively coaching that talent dropped us out of the national picture and hence, local recruits started looking elsewhere. We need a good salesman coach, like Kirk or Calipari, to sell the dream, the vision, to these recruits of what our program can be again. Tubby is a good BB fundamentals coach but I think we may need more than that to once again generate excitement about Memphis BB.

That probably doesn't give Coach Pastner enough credit. Coach Cal set us up as a national brand - in part through WWW and whatever shoe connections - but he made his Memphis reputation on the backs of one recruiting class and D Rose. None of that had to do with Memphis per se. Shawne was the only one out of that whole run that had Memphis ties (I guess Andre Allen, too), and Cal purposely limited his Memphis recruiting. Josh went back to recruiting heavily in Memphis, and it probably cost him his job. Joe and Tarik never seemed happy, Adonis looked good up until his injury and then never looked the same, and Austin apparently doesn't like to play bball.

Josh screwed the pooch all that talent and never got out of the first weekend. The the talent started going elsewhere. See J3, Chiozza and Vick

(04-05-2017 07:24 AM)ddramone Wrote:  When Penny was recruited, college BB was in its golden years. The 1980s were the greatest years in college BB history. In another thread, we discussed how when Phi Slamma Jamma played Georgetown, Akeem the Dream (they actually had nicknames they were so well known....as COLLEGE players) was in his 3rd year and Patrick Ewing was in his 3rd year as well.

The ESPN special on the Big East illustrated how much college BB grew as a result of cable in the 1980s. The 1989 championship between Seton Hall and Michigan was unreal and that game was populated with many well-known 3rd and 4th year players.

Point being is this: the college game is not nearly what it used to be and it isn't going to come back anytime soon. Cal understands it better than anybody and recognizes that today's HS seniors do NOT think of college as anything more than a 1-year hiatus from the NBA.

When Penny was in HS, there were 23 teams in the NBA and each had 11-man rosters. There were around 250 jobs in the NBA.

Today, there are 30 teams in the NBA with 15-man rosters or 450 jobs in the NBA and the Euro League and China pay very, very good money AND the NBADL pays excellent money for some poor kids from Memphis.

Any very good HSer doesn't think of college BB as much of anything other than a stepping-stone to the Pros, whether it be the NBA, NBADL, China or the Euro Leagues. The problem for us was that CJP didn't turn the very good Memphians into NBA'ers or good-paying jobs or elsewhere.

Memphis HS seniors were 9 years old when we went to the Finals. We haven't had a Sweet 16 in 8 years and throw in the fact that the Grizz have made the playoffs for almost as long as the Tigers haven't been to the Sweet 16 and you can see why Penny is saying what he is saying.

Tiger BB needs some excitement and there hasn't been too much lately.

this guy gets it.

(04-05-2017 07:48 AM)tiger2000 Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:24 AM)ddramone Wrote:  When Penny was recruited, college BB was in its golden years. The 1980s were the greatest years in college BB history. In another thread, we discussed how when Phi Slamma Jamma played Georgetown, Akeem the Dream (they actually had nicknames they were so well known....as COLLEGE players) was in his 3rd year and Patrick Ewing was in his 3rd year as well.

The ESPN special on the Big East illustrated how much college BB grew as a result of cable in the 1980s. The 1989 championship between Seton Hall and Michigan was unreal and that game was populated with many well-known 3rd and 4th year players.

Point being is this: the college game is not nearly what it used to be and it isn't going to come back anytime soon. Cal understands it better than anybody and recognizes that today's HS seniors do NOT think of college as anything more than a 1-year hiatus from the NBA.

When Penny was in HS, there were 23 teams in the NBA and each had 11-man rosters. There were around 250 jobs in the NBA.

Today, there are 30 teams in the NBA with 15-man rosters or 450 jobs in the NBA and the Euro League and China pay very, very good money AND the NBADL pays excellent money for some poor kids from Memphis.

Any very good HSer doesn't think of college BB as much of anything other than a stepping-stone to the Pros, whether it be the NBA, NBADL, China or the Euro Leagues. The problem for us was that CJP didn't turn the very good Memphians into NBA'ers or good-paying jobs or elsewhere.

Memphis HS seniors were 9 years old when we went to the Finals. We haven't had a Sweet 16 in 8 years and throw in the fact that the Grizz have made the playoffs for almost as long as the Tigers haven't been to the Sweet 16 and you can see why Penny is saying what he is saying.

Tiger BB needs some excitement and there hasn't been too much lately.

this guy gets it.

It's more than just that too

@dcsportsbog Patrick Ewing tells @JunksRadio that Georgetown has a nepotism clause and his son won't be allowed to stay on his staff.

(04-04-2017 03:27 PM)Tigx Wrote:  

(04-04-2017 02:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Penny Hardaway waited outside a locker room back in February, across the court from where Memphis Coach Tubby Smith and assistant Joe Esposito had just watched East High School boys’ basketball team deliver another resounding victory, and admitted the players he coaches now are not like he was growing up in this city.

“It’s not the same as it was. Kids, they’ll go away so quickly,” Hardaway said. “We never thought about going away. We always wanted to be at home because it was a one-team town. Now, the new generation, they want to leave before they stay home, which is sad. We have to get that back.”

If we were Top 25 every year and filling the Forum, then I'm quite confident many local kids would stay. Have to give them a reason to want to stay.

Hopefully they can see that THEY'RE the ones who can bring it back, with solid top 25 rankings and deep NCAA runs that will help fill the Forum. Current top local players (recruits) will help in laying the ground work for future top local players to become Tigers. Two way street. 2018-2019 is a must. Hope it happens.

(04-04-2017 02:44 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  Penny Hardaway waited outside a locker room back in February, across the court from where Memphis Coach Tubby Smith and assistant Joe Esposito had just watched East High School boys’ basketball team deliver another resounding victory, and admitted the players he coaches now are not like he was growing up in this city.

“It’s not the same as it was. Kids, they’ll go away so quickly,” Hardaway said. “We never thought about going away. We always wanted to be at home because it was a one-team town. Now, the new generation, they want to leave before they stay home, which is sad. We have to get that back.”

Except Penny almost did go away... to Michigan I think. The Prop 48 played to our favor.

I thought Penny committed to Arkansas?

(04-05-2017 10:42 AM)fsquid Wrote:  I thought Penny committed to Arkansas?

Not sure if he committed

He was looking at Kentucky too

His being a prop 48 caused some schools to back off

I guess you probably didn't verbal back then since there wasn't as much coverage.

Another reason why teens like my son don't care much about Tiger hoops or college hoops, 700+ transfers per year, now Dedric & K.J. If the players don't care about the names on the front of the jerseys, then why should the fans?

Looking at the Dedric and KJ news in comparison to this article, I would say this specific case is not really the same. This has all the signs of a controlling father using his talented sons to get the most money and power he can get. Dedric going pro would make sense - Dedric transferring makes no sense at all unless its part of a money grab / job promotion.

(04-05-2017 11:35 AM)Trapper John Wrote:  Looking at the Dedric and KJ news in comparison to this article, I would say this specific case is not really the same. This has all the signs of a controlling father using his talented sons to get the most money and power he can get. Dedric going pro would make sense - Dedric transferring makes no sense at all unless its part of a money grab / job promotion.

Oh well, guess we should've paid more.

(04-05-2017 07:24 AM)ddramone Wrote:  When Penny was recruited, college BB was in its golden years. The 1980s were the greatest years in college BB history. In another thread, we discussed how when Phi Slamma Jamma played Georgetown, Akeem the Dream (they actually had nicknames they were so well known....as COLLEGE players) was in his 3rd year and Patrick Ewing was in his 3rd year as well.

The ESPN special on the Big East illustrated how much college BB grew as a result of cable in the 1980s. The 1989 championship between Seton Hall and Michigan was unreal and that game was populated with many well-known 3rd and 4th year players.

Point being is this: the college game is not nearly what it used to be and it isn't going to come back anytime soon. Cal understands it better than anybody and recognizes that today's HS seniors do NOT think of college as anything more than a 1-year hiatus from the NBA.

When Penny was in HS, there were 23 teams in the NBA and each had 11-man rosters. There were around 250 jobs in the NBA.

Today, there are 30 teams in the NBA with 15-man rosters or 450 jobs in the NBA and the Euro League and China pay very, very good money AND the NBADL pays excellent money for some poor kids from Memphis.

Any very good HSer doesn't think of college BB as much of anything other than a stepping-stone to the Pros, whether it be the NBA, NBADL, China or the Euro Leagues. The problem for us was that CJP didn't turn the very good Memphians into NBA'ers or good-paying jobs or elsewhere.

Memphis HS seniors were 9 years old when we went to the Finals. We haven't had a Sweet 16 in 8 years and throw in the fact that the Grizz have made the playoffs for almost as long as the Tigers haven't been to the Sweet 16 and you can see why Penny is saying what he is saying.

Tiger BB needs some excitement and there hasn't been too much lately.

Yeah, NBA teams had more than 11 man rosters in 1990.

Hell the draft was at least five rounds.

And the NBA had 27 teams.

(04-05-2017 02:51 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(04-05-2017 07:24 AM)ddramone Wrote:  When Penny was recruited, college BB was in its golden years. The 1980s were the greatest years in college BB history. In another thread, we discussed how when Phi Slamma Jamma played Georgetown, Akeem the Dream (they actually had nicknames they were so well known....as COLLEGE players) was in his 3rd year and Patrick Ewing was in his 3rd year as well.

The ESPN special on the Big East illustrated how much college BB grew as a result of cable in the 1980s. The 1989 championship between Seton Hall and Michigan was unreal and that game was populated with many well-known 3rd and 4th year players.

Point being is this: the college game is not nearly what it used to be and it isn't going to come back anytime soon. Cal understands it better than anybody and recognizes that today's HS seniors do NOT think of college as anything more than a 1-year hiatus from the NBA.

When Penny was in HS, there were 23 teams in the NBA and each had 11-man rosters. There were around 250 jobs in the NBA.

Today, there are 30 teams in the NBA with 15-man rosters or 450 jobs in the NBA and the Euro League and China pay very, very good money AND the NBADL pays excellent money for some poor kids from Memphis.

Any very good HSer doesn't think of college BB as much of anything other than a stepping-stone to the Pros, whether it be the NBA, NBADL, China or the Euro Leagues. The problem for us was that CJP didn't turn the very good Memphians into NBA'ers or good-paying jobs or elsewhere.

Memphis HS seniors were 9 years old when we went to the Finals. We haven't had a Sweet 16 in 8 years and throw in the fact that the Grizz have made the playoffs for almost as long as the Tigers haven't been to the Sweet 16 and you can see why Penny is saying what he is saying.

Tiger BB needs some excitement and there hasn't been too much lately.

Yeah, NBA teams had more than 11 man rosters in 1990.

Hell the draft was at least five rounds.

And the NBA had 27 teams.

Knew there was a lot wrong with his facts, Lat. 11 man NBA rosters? 23 teams?

But his point about the college game being worse now than in the 80s and 90s was spot on, even if his facts were bogus.