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15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
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PIRATE TERP Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(03-30-2017 05:05 PM)colohank Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 02:09 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  The last two minutes of the game drives me nuts. Takes forever because of all the "unintentional fouling".

I just don't understand why a team should gain by fouling. In the last two minutes........ change the rule so that the team fouled gets the free shots AND the ball out of bounds. Like a technical foul.

Stop all of the ridiculous fouling, to make the opposing team shoot free throws and hope they miss.

Adjustable hoops. Make them an inch or two larger in diameter when my guys have the ball, and an inch or two smaller when the opposing team is on offense. It could be our little secret. Nobody else needs to know.

ECU votes YES!!! 02-13-banana 04-cheers COGS 03-lmfao
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2017 04:27 PM by PIRATE TERP.)
03-31-2017 04:24 PM
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goofus Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
This could be an interesting rule strategy wise .

put a 2-point line 5 feet from the basket. every basket inside the line counts for 1 point and anything between the 2-point line and 3-point line counts for 2 points.
(This post was last modified: 03-31-2017 09:15 PM by goofus.)
03-31-2017 09:14 PM
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TexanMark Online
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Post: #23
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.
04-01-2017 09:07 AM
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Post: #24
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.
04-01-2017 09:42 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-01-2017 09:42 AM)tribe_pride Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.

Just require every incoming college player to sign a contract wherein he agrees to pay the school one-half of his first five years of professional earnings if he leaves the program before graduating. If the player elects to drop out of school early to pursue a professional career, then everybody gets a piece of the pie -- the pro team benefits from the player's talents, the player gets paid for his professional performance, and the school is reimbursed for its investment in helping to develop the player.
04-01-2017 10:45 AM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
I advocate going the baseball route: directly out of HS OR 2/3 years of college.
04-01-2017 11:57 AM
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Post: #27
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

Agree that it would be better. Kentucky rotates out 8 or 9 players every year.

Just not sure how your would do it. Freshman ineligibility? Then they might go to the minor leagues, the D league or JC.
04-01-2017 12:59 PM
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Post: #28
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(03-31-2017 03:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 10:59 AM)ken d Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 08:42 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I've been watching college hoops since the early 1970s, and it's just as great as it's ever been, no better or worse.

It's been remarkably consistent that way despite all kinds of changes over the years.

The only change I ever wanted was the introduction of a shot clock to kill the UNC "four corners" strategy, but in hindsight, that didn't make the game any better. I just "hated" UNC so feared the strategy.

In truth, as Dean Smith predicted, the shot clock would make the strong stronger - UNC has won 4 national titles since it was introduced and are on the verge of a fifth, they had only won one before then, and four corners games had a fascination all their own.

And even pre- shot clock, most games ended 70-65 just like they do now.

During those "four corners" years before the shot clock, UNC was averaging more than 80 points a game (for example in the '76-'77 season they averaged 83.6). That was an extremely efficient offense, usually resulting in a lay up due to spreading the floor and opening up the lane. I don't think anyone ever retroactively went back to view tape to see how many times UNC took a shot within 30 seconds while running the four corners, but I believe it was more often than not.

It wasn't just a stalling tactic.

The four corners "offense" certainly wasn't just a set play to generate layup opportunities...

http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2012/04/...e_3-p.html

Quote:On February 24, 1979, fourth-ranked North Carolina made its annual trip to Cameron Indoor Stadium to play sixth-ranked Duke. Tar Heels coach Dean Smith ran his famous Four Corners offense in an effort to force the Blue Devils out of their zone, but Duke wouldn’t budge. After the Blue Devils scored the game’s opening bucket, Carolina held the ball for 11 minutes. The score at halftime was 7-0 in Duke’s favor. The Blue Devils eventually won by those seven points, 47-40.

In 77 UNC had Phil Ford who was a great guard and free throw shooter. They lead Kentucky (who would win the NCAA the next year) in the elite 8 by something like 18 at halftime. Kentucky did not have great guards. Kentucky started hot, made the game close and UNC went into a stall with 15 minutes left. Kentucky ended up scoring every single time they had the ball in the 2nd half up until 3 minutes left. They missed a single shot that would have tied and never had another chance to tie. UNC hit some outrageous % of freethrows, something like 38 out of 39. That was when I was converted to a shot clock. A team could play nearly perfect and never have a chance with a slow start.
04-01-2017 01:06 PM
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Post: #29
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-01-2017 10:45 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:42 AM)tribe_pride Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.

Just require every incoming college player to sign a contract wherein he agrees to pay the school one-half of his first five years of professional earnings if he leaves the program before graduating. If the player elects to drop out of school early to pursue a professional career, then everybody gets a piece of the pie -- the pro team benefits from the player's talents, the player gets paid for his professional performance, and the school is reimbursed for its investment in helping to develop the player.

Under what basis would the school have claim to those earnings?
What kind of ******* would be stupid enough to sign it?
Should my daughter's friend who built an app company based on what he learned while enrolled at Arkansas State and sold that company and took a programming job in LA, dropping out of school early be required to repay the school part of his first five year's of earnings? My friend's son who dropped out in his junior year to start a software company and had a million in revenue in short order be required to repay the school as well?

Look I don't like one and done but schools acting like low life loan sharks or the mob offering protection is not the solution.

There is a fix.

NCAA members should deny access to film, scouting access, and contact with players to representatives from any professional league that bars players from being drafted or signed as free agents upon graduation from high school. Also subject to being barred if they require players to declare in order to be eligible to be drafted.

I don't care if the NFL never signs a kid straight from high school, they shouldn't be barred from doing it.

A college junior shouldn't have to tell a league I want to be drafted. The teams should be able to draft and if they don't offer the kid what they are interested in, tough luck.
04-03-2017 08:24 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(03-30-2017 02:09 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  The last two minutes of the game drives me nuts. Takes forever because of all the "unintentional fouling".

I just don't understand why a team should gain by fouling. In the last two minutes........ change the rule so that the team fouled gets the free shots AND the ball out of bounds. Like a technical foul.

Stop all of the ridiculous fouling, to make the opposing team shoot free throws and hope they miss.

He could have saved everyone a lot of time had he just said, "I wish college basketball used the NBA's rules."

That's basically what he saying.

However, to that, I think that's a terrible suggestion. If I wanted to watch NBA basketball, I would watch the NBA. I have no interest in the NBA, in part because the rules are too skewed towards offense. It robs the game of its balance, which in turn makes it less interesting to me.
04-03-2017 09:13 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #31
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
They can certainly make changes to the rules that would improve college basketball. I think going to the international three-point line would be a good decision. I think implementing most of the FIBA rules would be a good decision.

However, only real way to improve college basketball would become to work out with the NBA a deal whereby kids have to stay for a minimum of three years like they do in baseball. I believe the rule there is a kid can be drafted out of high school and can go play pro or he can go to college.

However, if he chooses to go to college, he is mandated to be there for three years. I think that is a perfect rule for college basketball.

If you are so exceptional that you can jump straight from high school to the NBA, you should have that opportunity.

However, for the vast majority of players, everyone involved would be better served if they went to college and made a real investment in getting an education. Also, the programs would become more interesting again because you would get to know the cast of characters. that was a particular value with guys on other teams. I grew up in the old big east and by the time they were seniors you really hated guys like Patrick Ewing, Derek Coleman and Chris Mullin.

As it stands now, guys come and go so quickly that you really don't even get to know them much less hate them.

Hell, ESPN did an entire documentary on the subject called, "I Hate Christian Laettner." It's just not the same nowadays. I couldn't even tell you who plays for Syracuse much less who are the villains on the team?

I think the rule change would also benefit the NBA tremendously. There are so many guys who leave early who are not remotely ready to play at the highest level.

However, they end up in the NBA before the cookies are baked and they sit on the bench and wash out. Had they gone to a university and spent three or four years developing their games there - and maturing off the court as well – they would have been so much better off in the long run.
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2017 09:25 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-03-2017 09:22 AM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-03-2017 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 10:45 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:42 AM)tribe_pride Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.

Just require every incoming college player to sign a contract wherein he agrees to pay the school one-half of his first five years of professional earnings if he leaves the program before graduating. If the player elects to drop out of school early to pursue a professional career, then everybody gets a piece of the pie -- the pro team benefits from the player's talents, the player gets paid for his professional performance, and the school is reimbursed for its investment in helping to develop the player.

Under what basis would the school have claim to those earnings?
What kind of ******* would be stupid enough to sign it?
Should my daughter's friend who built an app company based on what he learned while enrolled at Arkansas State and sold that company and took a programming job in LA, dropping out of school early be required to repay the school part of his first five year's of earnings? My friend's son who dropped out in his junior year to start a software company and had a million in revenue in short order be required to repay the school as well?

Look I don't like one and done but schools acting like low life loan sharks or the mob offering protection is not the solution.

There is a fix.

NCAA members should deny access to film, scouting access, and contact with players to representatives from any professional league that bars players from being drafted or signed as free agents upon graduation from high school. Also subject to being barred if they require players to declare in order to be eligible to be drafted.

I don't care if the NFL never signs a kid straight from high school, they shouldn't be barred from doing it.

A college junior shouldn't have to tell a league I want to be drafted. The teams should be able to draft and if they don't offer the kid what they are interested in, tough luck.

The contract between the school and the athlete would be the basis. No aspiring pro athletes are required to attend college, but if they choose that path as a means to develop themselves, and if the college agrees to nurture their ambitions, there should be something in it for the school that gets left high and dry when its investment leaves prematurely. The pro teams and players agree to terms via formal contracts, and there are penalties for either party that violates the terms of those contracts. Why not the same formal arrangement for schools and athletes?

What kind of ******* would stupid enough to sign such a contract? The kind that not only wants the experience and exposure gained by playing college ball, but also the kind who wants the promise of a free higher education if he stays the course. None others need apply, and frankly, schools shouldn't be admitting academically unqualified kids just because they're seven feet tall, can palm a basketball, and aspire to a career as a professional athlete. Let them seek another path. Doing unprincipled things for gain is called prostitution, and it applies both personally and institutionally*.

* You want a recent example? Look no further than Chapel Hill.
04-03-2017 10:15 AM
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Post: #33
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(03-31-2017 02:36 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 08:43 AM)RutgersGuy Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 02:09 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  The last two minutes of the game drives me nuts. Takes forever because of all the "unintentional fouling".

I just don't understand why a team should gain by fouling. In the last two minutes........ change the rule so that the team fouled gets the free shots AND the ball out of bounds. Like a technical foul.

Stop all of the ridiculous fouling, to make the opposing team shoot free throws and hope they miss.

But what if it's a 1 point game and it's not an intentional foul? You want refs making a judgement call like that?

Then do not foul. You do have a point, so maybe one free shot and the ball out of bounds would be better. Just stop the current system. When it is obvious the foul is intentional call intentional.

Thats just stupid. Does the team with the lead also held to those rules? If they foul does the trailing team get FT and the ball? If not then you just gave a huge advantage to have the slimmest of leads. What about tie games?
04-03-2017 10:18 AM
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Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Offline
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Post: #34
15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
Did you write that article? If so, I had no idea. That was a very long article full of a lot of stupid suggestions. If so, well done. It's hard to be that wrong about that many things in a row.


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(This post was last modified: 04-03-2017 10:25 AM by Dr. Isaly von Yinzer.)
04-03-2017 10:22 AM
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Post: #35
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-03-2017 10:15 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 10:45 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:42 AM)tribe_pride Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.

Just require every incoming college player to sign a contract wherein he agrees to pay the school one-half of his first five years of professional earnings if he leaves the program before graduating. If the player elects to drop out of school early to pursue a professional career, then everybody gets a piece of the pie -- the pro team benefits from the player's talents, the player gets paid for his professional performance, and the school is reimbursed for its investment in helping to develop the player.

Under what basis would the school have claim to those earnings?
What kind of ******* would be stupid enough to sign it?
Should my daughter's friend who built an app company based on what he learned while enrolled at Arkansas State and sold that company and took a programming job in LA, dropping out of school early be required to repay the school part of his first five year's of earnings? My friend's son who dropped out in his junior year to start a software company and had a million in revenue in short order be required to repay the school as well?

Look I don't like one and done but schools acting like low life loan sharks or the mob offering protection is not the solution.

There is a fix.

NCAA members should deny access to film, scouting access, and contact with players to representatives from any professional league that bars players from being drafted or signed as free agents upon graduation from high school. Also subject to being barred if they require players to declare in order to be eligible to be drafted.

I don't care if the NFL never signs a kid straight from high school, they shouldn't be barred from doing it.

A college junior shouldn't have to tell a league I want to be drafted. The teams should be able to draft and if they don't offer the kid what they are interested in, tough luck.

The contract between the school and the athlete would be the basis. No aspiring pro athletes are required to attend college, but if they choose that path as a means to develop themselves, and if the college agrees to nurture their ambitions, there should be something in it for the school that gets left high and dry when its investment leaves prematurely. The pro teams and players agree to terms via formal contracts, and there are penalties for either party that violates the terms of those contracts. Why not the same formal arrangement for schools and athletes?

What kind of ******* would stupid enough to sign such a contract? The kind that not only wants the experience and exposure gained by playing college ball, but also the kind who wants the promise of a free higher education if he stays the course. None others need apply, and frankly, schools shouldn't be admitting academically unqualified kids just because they're seven feet tall, can palm a basketball, and aspire to a career as a professional athlete. Let them seek another path. Doing unprincipled things for gain is called prostitution, and it applies both personally and institutionally*.

* You want a recent example? Look no further than Chapel Hill.

Beyond the fact that it is horrible PR. Beyond the fact it makes the case the players have argued about colleges exploiting players for financial gain (that's playing great in court). It will be seen as extorting players to pay for the right to advance their professional career.

Anyone with any sense says FU and goes to Europe for a year.
04-03-2017 11:21 AM
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Post: #36
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-03-2017 09:13 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 02:09 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  The last two minutes of the game drives me nuts. Takes forever because of all the "unintentional fouling".

I just don't understand why a team should gain by fouling. In the last two minutes........ change the rule so that the team fouled gets the free shots AND the ball out of bounds. Like a technical foul.

Stop all of the ridiculous fouling, to make the opposing team shoot free throws and hope they miss.

He could have saved everyone a lot of time had he just said, "I wish college basketball used the NBA's rules."

That's basically what he saying.

However, to that, I think that's a terrible suggestion. If I wanted to watch NBA basketball, I would watch the NBA. I have no interest in the NBA, in part because the rules are too skewed towards offense. It robs the game of its balance, which in turn makes it less interesting to me.

I enjoy the NBA, in fact I'm more likely to watch NBA than college but there are not 4,500 players a year capable of playing an NBA style game in an entertaining manner.
04-03-2017 11:23 AM
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Post: #37
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
They need to put the shot clock back to 35. Or even 40. 30 seconds favors good defenses too much. The current shot clock benefits my team (Cincinnati), but all the bad shots make the game unwatchable.

They also need to end the new "emphasis" on certain rules that they started 2 years ago. By emphasizing certain rules and de-emphasizing others, the refs control the outcome of far too many games.
04-03-2017 12:33 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #38
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-03-2017 12:33 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  They need to put the shot clock back to 35. Or even 40. 30 seconds favors good defenses too much. The current shot clock benefits my team (Cincinnati), but all the bad shots make the game unwatchable.

No thanks. There are already too many control-freak coaches in college hoops who tell their teams to run the shot clock down before attempting a shot. If a team doesn't shoot until the last 10 seconds anyway, then adding another 5 or 10 seconds to each possession is just adding 5 or 10 seconds of dead time, 100 times a game.
04-03-2017 12:46 PM
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colohank Offline
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Post: #39
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-03-2017 11:21 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 10:15 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 08:24 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 10:45 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:42 AM)tribe_pride Wrote:  You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.

Just require every incoming college player to sign a contract wherein he agrees to pay the school one-half of his first five years of professional earnings if he leaves the program before graduating. If the player elects to drop out of school early to pursue a professional career, then everybody gets a piece of the pie -- the pro team benefits from the player's talents, the player gets paid for his professional performance, and the school is reimbursed for its investment in helping to develop the player.

Under what basis would the school have claim to those earnings?
What kind of ******* would be stupid enough to sign it?
Should my daughter's friend who built an app company based on what he learned while enrolled at Arkansas State and sold that company and took a programming job in LA, dropping out of school early be required to repay the school part of his first five year's of earnings? My friend's son who dropped out in his junior year to start a software company and had a million in revenue in short order be required to repay the school as well?

Look I don't like one and done but schools acting like low life loan sharks or the mob offering protection is not the solution.

There is a fix.

NCAA members should deny access to film, scouting access, and contact with players to representatives from any professional league that bars players from being drafted or signed as free agents upon graduation from high school. Also subject to being barred if they require players to declare in order to be eligible to be drafted.

I don't care if the NFL never signs a kid straight from high school, they shouldn't be barred from doing it.

A college junior shouldn't have to tell a league I want to be drafted. The teams should be able to draft and if they don't offer the kid what they are interested in, tough luck.

The contract between the school and the athlete would be the basis. No aspiring pro athletes are required to attend college, but if they choose that path as a means to develop themselves, and if the college agrees to nurture their ambitions, there should be something in it for the school that gets left high and dry when its investment leaves prematurely. The pro teams and players agree to terms via formal contracts, and there are penalties for either party that violates the terms of those contracts. Why not the same formal arrangement for schools and athletes?

What kind of ******* would stupid enough to sign such a contract? The kind that not only wants the experience and exposure gained by playing college ball, but also the kind who wants the promise of a free higher education if he stays the course. None others need apply, and frankly, schools shouldn't be admitting academically unqualified kids just because they're seven feet tall, can palm a basketball, and aspire to a career as a professional athlete. Let them seek another path. Doing unprincipled things for gain is called prostitution, and it applies both personally and institutionally*.

* You want a recent example? Look no further than Chapel Hill.

Beyond the fact that it is horrible PR. Beyond the fact it makes the case the players have argued about colleges exploiting players for financial gain (that's playing great in court). It will be seen as extorting players to pay for the right to advance their professional career.

Anyone with any sense says FU and goes to Europe for a year.

Good for them. Let those youngsters live out their professional fantasies playing in Europe. Let them play pro ball here in the US and make millions. Or let them fizzle out after one pre-season with a pro team and join the legions of other one-and-dones whose names nobody remembers. The college game in the US would survive admirably without any of them, just as it did for decades before there was an NBA. Those kids who play college ball and stick it out to get their degrees would do just fine, too. A very few of them might even make the pro ranks and enjoy lucrative careers.

Improving college basketball and improving professional basketball are two different things. Institutions of higher learning shouldn't be so eager to endanger their principles and reputations in order to facilitate the latter.
04-03-2017 01:42 PM
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Post: #40
RE: 15 rule changes to make college basketball great again
(04-01-2017 10:45 AM)colohank Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:42 AM)tribe_pride Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 09:07 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  Make college hoops better? End the One and Done. I don't even remember half the kids that play for Cuse anymore. They play one collegiate season, declare, go do the D League/NBA 13th man shuttle for 2 years and get replaced by the next First/Second Round Draft Choice.

You'd need to have the NBA change their eligibility rules then.

Just require every incoming college player to sign a contract wherein he agrees to pay the school one-half of his first five years of professional earnings if he leaves the program before graduating. If the player elects to drop out of school early to pursue a professional career, then everybody gets a piece of the pie -- the pro team benefits from the player's talents, the player gets paid for his professional performance, and the school is reimbursed for its investment in helping to develop the player.

I have a very hard time suggesting that schools need, or deserve, to be reimbursed for "investing" in the development of a player good enough to go to the NBA after one or two years in college. Those schools already have an ROI that's off the charts, no matter how big their budget.

It's not the schools that are being exploited here. It's the athletes that are making millions for their schools with compensation equivalent to minimum wage. We college basketball fans might wish our schools benefit even more than they now do, because we would feel like we would be entertained better by keeping our stars in a state of indentured servitude longer.

But let's not pretend that our motives here are pure, or anything but self serving.
04-03-2017 01:46 PM
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