The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Saw an excellent interview with Ted Leonsis the other day, owner of the Wizards and Caps, two teams that haven't always excelled, to put it mildly -- but having great seasons this year. He talked about what goes into building an organization, and it includes everyone, not just the coach. You make a plan, he said, and you give it every opportunity to succeed. You loathe the thought of firing a coach or GM too soon -- even though there comes a time when you do what you have to do -- because it poisons the well of the next candidate. Paraphrase: "Who wants to work somewhere where the threat of being fired always hangs over your head? (this was in answer to a question about the Redskins way of doing business). As for fans, he said (again paraphrase), "I've gotten some of the nicest letters and some of the most vile. I've been called the best owner in sports and the worst owner in sports. I know I'm neither one. People have screamed at me to fire this one or that one, clean house, and when I haven't done it, they've had a fit. I understand their frustration; sports is their vehicle for blowing off steam. But the bottom line is you have to give your plan every chance to succeed. I've fired people, some of the best people I've ever met (Bruce Boudreau, George McPhee, Flip Saunders) when it got obvious our gameplan wasn't working to the extent we wanted it to. But for a guy in my position, patience is the key to success." Something like that.

I thought of Selig when I heard that interview, thought that he probably uses a similar thought process with his department, could have fired Finwood if he listened to "fans," would have fired Jones if he heard some of the people here, and quite possibly not allowed the gameplan to reach its potential. Getting close to that make or break time? I certainly think so, but none of us has any idea what's in the mind of Selig and, very very importantly Broderick. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, and the more I read on here the less I care what anyone here thinks; just offering a POV from someone intimately involved in sports and trying to achieve success.

Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

We lost in the CUSA championship game in 2015-16 by 2. Not sure how that was a step back.

As I've said numerous times before, I want to see improvement on the court and a continuation of what appears to be improved recruiting in Green, Godwin and Hueitt. More like them.

(03-28-2017 11:53 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Saw an excellent interview with Ted Leonsis the other day, owner of the Wizards and Caps, two teams that haven't always excelled, to put it mildly -- but having great seasons this year. He talked about what goes into building an organization, and it includes everyone, not just the coach. You make a plan, he said, and you give it every opportunity to succeed. You loathe the thought of firing a coach or GM too soon -- even though there comes a time when you do what you have to do -- because it poisons the well of the next candidate. Paraphrase: "Who wants to work somewhere where the threat of being fired always hangs over your head? (this was in answer to a question about the Redskins way of doing business). As for fans, he said (again paraphrase), "I've gotten some of the nicest letters and some of the most vile. I've been called the best owner in sports and the worst owner in sports. I know I'm neither one. People have screamed at me to fire this one or that one, clean house, and when I haven't done it, they've had a fit. I understand their frustration; sports is their vehicle for blowing off steam. But the bottom line is you have to give your plan every chance to succeed. I've fired people, some of the best people I've ever met (Bruce Boudreau, George McPhee, Flip Saunders) when it got obvious our gameplan wasn't working to the extent we wanted it to. But for a guy in my position, patience is the key to success." Something like that.

I thought of Selig when I heard that interview, thought that he probably uses a similar thought process with his department, could have fired Finwood if he listened to "fans," would have fired Jones if he heard some of the people here, and quite possibly not allowed the gameplan to reach its potential. Getting close to that make or break time? I certainly think so, but none of us has any idea what's in the mind of Selig and, very very importantly Broderick. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, and the more I read on here the less I care what anyone here thinks; just offering a POV from someone intimately involved in sports and trying to achieve success.

Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

True. I don't agree with others that think this team next year is going to the NCAA tournament. We couldn't even get out of the first round of our conference tournament. And we are in CUSA.

2 years ago ODU football won 5 games and last year they won 10 with roughly the same players. What does that tell you?

(03-28-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:53 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Saw an excellent interview with Ted Leonsis the other day, owner of the Wizards and Caps, two teams that haven't always excelled, to put it mildly -- but having great seasons this year. He talked about what goes into building an organization, and it includes everyone, not just the coach. You make a plan, he said, and you give it every opportunity to succeed. You loathe the thought of firing a coach or GM too soon -- even though there comes a time when you do what you have to do -- because it poisons the well of the next candidate. Paraphrase: "Who wants to work somewhere where the threat of being fired always hangs over your head? (this was in answer to a question about the Redskins way of doing business). As for fans, he said (again paraphrase), "I've gotten some of the nicest letters and some of the most vile. I've been called the best owner in sports and the worst owner in sports. I know I'm neither one. People have screamed at me to fire this one or that one, clean house, and when I haven't done it, they've had a fit. I understand their frustration; sports is their vehicle for blowing off steam. But the bottom line is you have to give your plan every chance to succeed. I've fired people, some of the best people I've ever met (Bruce Boudreau, George McPhee, Flip Saunders) when it got obvious our gameplan wasn't working to the extent we wanted it to. But for a guy in my position, patience is the key to success." Something like that.

I thought of Selig when I heard that interview, thought that he probably uses a similar thought process with his department, could have fired Finwood if he listened to "fans," would have fired Jones if he heard some of the people here, and quite possibly not allowed the gameplan to reach its potential. Getting close to that make or break time? I certainly think so, but none of us has any idea what's in the mind of Selig and, very very importantly Broderick. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, and the more I read on here the less I care what anyone here thinks; just offering a POV from someone intimately involved in sports and trying to achieve success.

Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

True. I don't agree with others that think this team next year is going to the NCAA tournament. We couldn't even get out of the first round of our conference tournament. And we are in CUSA.

2 years ago ODU football won 5 games and last year they won 10 with roughly the same players. What does that tell you?

Wilder has been building for the future. Sure he used transfers / JUCOs for a short time to help, but he had a plan to ween off of them. He's recruited talented players with a five year plan in mind. Jones has done the exact opposite.

(03-28-2017 12:11 PM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:53 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Saw an excellent interview with Ted Leonsis the other day, owner of the Wizards and Caps, two teams that haven't always excelled, to put it mildly -- but having great seasons this year. He talked about what goes into building an organization, and it includes everyone, not just the coach. You make a plan, he said, and you give it every opportunity to succeed. You loathe the thought of firing a coach or GM too soon -- even though there comes a time when you do what you have to do -- because it poisons the well of the next candidate. Paraphrase: "Who wants to work somewhere where the threat of being fired always hangs over your head? (this was in answer to a question about the Redskins way of doing business). As for fans, he said (again paraphrase), "I've gotten some of the nicest letters and some of the most vile. I've been called the best owner in sports and the worst owner in sports. I know I'm neither one. People have screamed at me to fire this one or that one, clean house, and when I haven't done it, they've had a fit. I understand their frustration; sports is their vehicle for blowing off steam. But the bottom line is you have to give your plan every chance to succeed. I've fired people, some of the best people I've ever met (Bruce Boudreau, George McPhee, Flip Saunders) when it got obvious our gameplan wasn't working to the extent we wanted it to. But for a guy in my position, patience is the key to success." Something like that.

I thought of Selig when I heard that interview, thought that he probably uses a similar thought process with his department, could have fired Finwood if he listened to "fans," would have fired Jones if he heard some of the people here, and quite possibly not allowed the gameplan to reach its potential. Getting close to that make or break time? I certainly think so, but none of us has any idea what's in the mind of Selig and, very very importantly Broderick. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, and the more I read on here the less I care what anyone here thinks; just offering a POV from someone intimately involved in sports and trying to achieve success.

Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

True. I don't agree with others that think this team next year is going to the NCAA tournament. We couldn't even get out of the first round of our conference tournament. And we are in CUSA.

2 years ago ODU football won 5 games and last year they won 10 with roughly the same players. What does that tell you?

Wilder has been building for the future. Sure he used transfers / JUCOs for a short time to help, but he had a plan to ween off of them. He's recruited talented players with a five year plan in mind. Jones has done the exact opposite.

We just took on a JUCO QB that people on here think will be the starter.......

I don't understand the concept of Jones not have a plan in mind. This is because he fills in some gaps with transfers and JUCOs? This coming up year, it appears we are adding 1 grad transfer and 2 freshman.

How long will it take before people realize transfers are not the devil.

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 08:03 AM)odu09 Wrote:  inb4 "this guy isn't a freshman big, therefore JJ sucks" just remember this is in essence a trade for Haynes. Seems like a good trade if Green and the current class can score. Getting another solid contributor for defense and rebounds is an immediate need.

I am not convinced that this kid can't contribute on the offensive end, so this is no judgement on him... but more defense and rebounding is just what we need????? We seem to do just fine in those arenas. We need to score the ball. I seem to remember a lot of people that were happy that Taylor and Baker were leaving, that now are excited to have a Taylor clone.

Again, I am not bashing the player here, I actually don't think he will be a Taylor clone. I am hopeful that we will see an improvement at the 4 this season, and I think this is a good pick up IF we sign a younger, preferably freshman, big to go with him. We have got to get over that hump at some point or the future will be in question every season.

I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

(03-28-2017 12:23 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I am not convinced that this kid can't contribute on the offensive end, so this is no judgement on him... but more defense and rebounding is just what we need????? We seem to do just fine in those arenas. We need to score the ball. I seem to remember a lot of people that were happy that Taylor and Baker were leaving, that now are excited to have a Taylor clone.

Again, I am not bashing the player here, I actually don't think he will be a Taylor clone. I am hopeful that we will see an improvement at the 4 this season, and I think this is a good pick up IF we sign a younger, preferably freshman, big to go with him. We have got to get over that hump at some point or the future will be in question every season.

I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

He can certainly shoot it, but I would be surprised if he takes a ton of minutes day 1 from Talley/Stith/Green. He needs to get in the weight room and those guys are way more physically mature than him. If he does play a lot, then his talent was just too much to sit and that would be a good thing.

BJ really improved as the season went on. And Talley is pretty good himself. It is a lot to ask.

(03-28-2017 12:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:23 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

He can certainly shoot it, but I would be surprised if he takes a ton of minutes day 1 from Talley/Stith/Green. He needs to get in the weight room and those guys are way more physically mature than him. If he does play a lot, then his talent was just too much to sit and that would be a good thing.

BJ really improved as the season went on. And Talley is pretty good himself. It is a lot to ask.

No doubt. Just don't be surprised.

(03-28-2017 11:54 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Saw an excellent interview with Ted Leonsis the other day, owner of the Wizards and Caps, two teams that haven't always excelled, to put it mildly -- but having great seasons this year. He talked about what goes into building an organization, and it includes everyone, not just the coach. You make a plan, he said, and you give it every opportunity to succeed. You loathe the thought of firing a coach or GM too soon -- even though there comes a time when you do what you have to do -- because it poisons the well of the next candidate. Paraphrase: "Who wants to work somewhere where the threat of being fired always hangs over your head? (this was in answer to a question about the Redskins way of doing business). As for fans, he said (again paraphrase), "I've gotten some of the nicest letters and some of the most vile. I've been called the best owner in sports and the worst owner in sports. I know I'm neither one. People have screamed at me to fire this one or that one, clean house, and when I haven't done it, they've had a fit. I understand their frustration; sports is their vehicle for blowing off steam. But the bottom line is you have to give your plan every chance to succeed. I've fired people, some of the best people I've ever met (Bruce Boudreau, George McPhee, Flip Saunders) when it got obvious our gameplan wasn't working to the extent we wanted it to. But for a guy in my position, patience is the key to success." Something like that.

I thought of Selig when I heard that interview, thought that he probably uses a similar thought process with his department, could have fired Finwood if he listened to "fans," would have fired Jones if he heard some of the people here, and quite possibly not allowed the gameplan to reach its potential. Getting close to that make or break time? I certainly think so, but none of us has any idea what's in the mind of Selig and, very very importantly Broderick. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, and the more I read on here the less I care what anyone here thinks; just offering a POV from someone intimately involved in sports and trying to achieve success.

Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

We lost in the CUSA championship game in 2015-16 by 2. Not sure how that was a step back.

The year before we got an at large 1 seed in the NIT and made it to NYC.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 08:03 AM)odu09 Wrote:  inb4 "this guy isn't a freshman big, therefore JJ sucks" just remember this is in essence a trade for Haynes. Seems like a good trade if Green and the current class can score. Getting another solid contributor for defense and rebounds is an immediate need.

I am not convinced that this kid can't contribute on the offensive end, so this is no judgement on him... but more defense and rebounding is just what we need????? We seem to do just fine in those arenas. We need to score the ball. I seem to remember a lot of people that were happy that Taylor and Baker were leaving, that now are excited to have a Taylor clone.

Again, I am not bashing the player here, I actually don't think he will be a Taylor clone. I am hopeful that we will see an improvement at the 4 this season, and I think this is a good pick up IF we sign a younger, preferably freshman, big to go with him. We have got to get over that hump at some point or the future will be in question every season.

I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I agree with almost everything you said, but I disagree that it is a necessarily a good thing that we return 77% of the shots from last year, and that they will be the same players generating the offense. Also, just to reiterate because this discussion has progressed a bit since my first post on it, I actually think McClinton will provide some additional offense. My original point was made to those who were saying it is good if he is a Taylor clone. I think we need more offense than that to improve significantly over last year.

(03-28-2017 12:56 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:54 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:52 AM)jumpshooter Wrote:  Saw an excellent interview with Ted Leonsis the other day, owner of the Wizards and Caps, two teams that haven't always excelled, to put it mildly -- but having great seasons this year. He talked about what goes into building an organization, and it includes everyone, not just the coach. You make a plan, he said, and you give it every opportunity to succeed. You loathe the thought of firing a coach or GM too soon -- even though there comes a time when you do what you have to do -- because it poisons the well of the next candidate. Paraphrase: "Who wants to work somewhere where the threat of being fired always hangs over your head? (this was in answer to a question about the Redskins way of doing business). As for fans, he said (again paraphrase), "I've gotten some of the nicest letters and some of the most vile. I've been called the best owner in sports and the worst owner in sports. I know I'm neither one. People have screamed at me to fire this one or that one, clean house, and when I haven't done it, they've had a fit. I understand their frustration; sports is their vehicle for blowing off steam. But the bottom line is you have to give your plan every chance to succeed. I've fired people, some of the best people I've ever met (Bruce Boudreau, George McPhee, Flip Saunders) when it got obvious our gameplan wasn't working to the extent we wanted it to. But for a guy in my position, patience is the key to success." Something like that.

I thought of Selig when I heard that interview, thought that he probably uses a similar thought process with his department, could have fired Finwood if he listened to "fans," would have fired Jones if he heard some of the people here, and quite possibly not allowed the gameplan to reach its potential. Getting close to that make or break time? I certainly think so, but none of us has any idea what's in the mind of Selig and, very very importantly Broderick. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about anything, and the more I read on here the less I care what anyone here thinks; just offering a POV from someone intimately involved in sports and trying to achieve success.

Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

We lost in the CUSA championship game in 2015-16 by 2. Not sure how that was a step back.

The year before we got an at large 1 seed in the NIT and made it to NYC.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk

Really not a ton of difference between 15 and 16. Remember, we went 1-5 (really 1-6 bc he played limited minutes vs. Richmond) without Stith. 24-8 (or 7) with him in the lineup.

(03-28-2017 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:11 PM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:53 AM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:29 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  Maybe I'll tell my boss I am implementing a 30 year plan to grow the business so my job is secure through retirement.

Seriously though, a 5-year plan is reasonable for a 5-year contract. Seems the first 2 years likely went as planned, but the second 2-years we took a step backward each year. If we don't perform again next year, at that point I think we need to come to grips with the fact that this plan isn't bearing any fruit.

True. I don't agree with others that think this team next year is going to the NCAA tournament. We couldn't even get out of the first round of our conference tournament. And we are in CUSA.

2 years ago ODU football won 5 games and last year they won 10 with roughly the same players. What does that tell you?

Wilder has been building for the future. Sure he used transfers / JUCOs for a short time to help, but he had a plan to ween off of them. He's recruited talented players with a five year plan in mind. Jones has done the exact opposite.

We just took on a JUCO QB that people on here think will be the starter.......

I don't understand the concept of Jones not have a plan in mind. This is because he fills in some gaps with transfers and JUCOs? This coming up year, it appears we are adding 1 grad transfer and 2 freshman.

How long will it take before people realize transfers are not the devil.

I think the difference is that we have also brought in a freshman QB that can be groomed within the system every year as well.

(03-28-2017 12:23 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 09:26 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I am not convinced that this kid can't contribute on the offensive end, so this is no judgement on him... but more defense and rebounding is just what we need????? We seem to do just fine in those arenas. We need to score the ball. I seem to remember a lot of people that were happy that Taylor and Baker were leaving, that now are excited to have a Taylor clone.

Again, I am not bashing the player here, I actually don't think he will be a Taylor clone. I am hopeful that we will see an improvement at the 4 this season, and I think this is a good pick up IF we sign a younger, preferably freshman, big to go with him. We have got to get over that hump at some point or the future will be in question every season.

I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

I agree with you, but I just don't see any of that actually happening. JJ will not move Talley to the 4 and I doubt he will start any of the freshmen. We are likely going to see a starting lineup of:

Caver
BJ
Talley
McClinton or Carver
Stith

I would love to see:

Caver
Green or Hueitt (assuming he is as advertised)
BJ
Talley
Porter

(03-28-2017 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:11 PM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:53 AM)odufansam Wrote:  True. I don't agree with others that think this team next year is going to the NCAA tournament. We couldn't even get out of the first round of our conference tournament. And we are in CUSA.

2 years ago ODU football won 5 games and last year they won 10 with roughly the same players. What does that tell you?

Wilder has been building for the future. Sure he used transfers / JUCOs for a short time to help, but he had a plan to ween off of them. He's recruited talented players with a five year plan in mind. Jones has done the exact opposite.

We just took on a JUCO QB that people on here think will be the starter.......

I don't understand the concept of Jones not have a plan in mind. This is because he fills in some gaps with transfers and JUCOs? This coming up year, it appears we are adding 1 grad transfer and 2 freshman.

How long will it take before people realize transfers are not the devil.

I think the difference is that we have also brought in a freshman QB that can be groomed within the system every year as well.

Easier to do that when you have 100 players than when you have 13. In football, you can bring on projects and stick them on the practice field for 2 years before they even are considered to be able to play.

(03-28-2017 01:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 01:49 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:21 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:11 PM)odufansam Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  2 years ago ODU football won 5 games and last year they won 10 with roughly the same players. What does that tell you?

Wilder has been building for the future. Sure he used transfers / JUCOs for a short time to help, but he had a plan to ween off of them. He's recruited talented players with a five year plan in mind. Jones has done the exact opposite.

We just took on a JUCO QB that people on here think will be the starter.......

I don't understand the concept of Jones not have a plan in mind. This is because he fills in some gaps with transfers and JUCOs? This coming up year, it appears we are adding 1 grad transfer and 2 freshman.

How long will it take before people realize transfers are not the devil.

I think the difference is that we have also brought in a freshman QB that can be groomed within the system every year as well.

Easier to do that when you have 100 players than when you have 13. In football, you can bring on projects and stick them on the practice field for 2 years before they even are considered to be able to play.

I think you can and should do the same with big men at mid major basketball programs. It is not like we are running out of scholarships. We have often had scholarships left over.

(03-28-2017 05:23 AM)BigBlue23 Wrote:  http://pilotonline.com/sports/college/ol...ae2b0.html

Welcome to Monarch Nation Greg McClinton.

Just what we need...a defense first player who averaged 2.6 points per game.

Didn't Dennis Rodman hardly score any points in the games? Yet he was a huge asset to his teams.

(03-28-2017 01:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:23 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

I agree with you, but I just don't see any of that actually happening. JJ will not move Talley to the 4 and I doubt he will start any of the freshmen. We are likely going to see a starting lineup of:

Caver
BJ
Talley
McClinton or Carver
Stith

I would love to see:

Caver
Green or Hueitt (assuming he is as advertised)
BJ
Talley
Porter

Caver
Hueitt/Green
BJ/Talley
McClinton
Stith

Pinckney
Green/Hueitt
Talley/BJ
Carver
Porter

Godwin-Redshirt

My best guess, although I think Porter is going to be better than Brandan.

(03-28-2017 12:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:23 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 10:11 AM)odu09 Wrote:  I am not too surprised by people bashing Taylor as he provided 0 offensive threat on a team that lacked offense (it was a very frustrating season), but to completely leave out how much of an impact he made with his rebounding is a mistake. He was an offensive rebounding machine and gave the team a lot of 2nd chance opportunities, and was the best overall rebounder on the team. With Taylor graduating, we have a need for a solid rebounder.

Supposedly JJ has addressed the need at the scoring positions. This just shores up another need that we had with Taylor graduating.

And really, what his contributions were at Wake Forest (an ACC school that made the tournament) is not indicative of the success or lack-thereof he will have here. It's tough to make assumptions of how he will perform here based on stats from ACC play.

I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

He can certainly shoot it, but I would be surprised if he takes a ton of minutes day 1 from Talley/Stith/Green. He needs to get in the weight room and those guys are way more physically mature than him. If he does play a lot, then his talent was just too much to sit and that would be a good thing.

BJ really improved as the season went on. And Talley is pretty good himself. It is a lot to ask.

Personally I don't believe that Heuitt will be competing with BJ or Talley for minutes unless Jones changes one or both of them to play the 2. Unless Talley develops a 3 point shot then he would be like a fish out of water at the 2 for more than a choice few very specific instances. Heuitt's playing time would appear to be in competition with Xavier for Baker's former spot, and it is possible that Xavier is being considered for the back-up point guard spot as well. Don't know if Heuitt is able enough to be considered for that position, but it would be nice if he could play it.

To me, I just hope that Jones plays these guys (Xavier, Heuitt, Godwin, and Kah) without waiting for them to become an all world defender before they can get on the floor. We need some offensive punch either starting or off the bench, especially in shooting the 3.

(03-28-2017 02:25 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:27 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 12:23 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:24 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(03-28-2017 11:11 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  I get your point, but I don't think our need for additional offense is yet addressed for next year. While Hueitt and Godwin may be very good players over the course of their careers, I think we are asking a bit too much of them if we expect them and Green to carry a ton of the offensive load as freshmen.

Unless we find some diamond in the rough, the majority of our scoring will come from returning players. Typically, players get better as they get more experienced so I don't see why it won't be the case next year.

We are returning 1,357 of the 1,765 shots we took last year (77%). 2 of our 3 most inefficient guys will not be returning (Fields, Haynes) while 2 of our least often used guys (shots) will not be returning (Baker, Taylor).

Unless Godwin, Hueit, and/or Green are studs from the start, they will only be relied on as secondary scorers/options. Our primary scoring will come from Talley (30 pts per 100), Porter (28/100), Stith (27/100), Stith (26/100), and Caver (23/100). Im not sure why anyone thinks that a ton of shots are coming from anywhere besides those 5 players......

Certainly Caver, Stith, Talley need to be more efficient next year and maybe some of the secondary options will open up things for them and they will not be relied on to bail out the offense as often. Personally, I like the idea of adding a mobile guy to guard "power forwards" as it keeps Porter/Stith in the paint. We have some guys that have the potential to be scorers at every spot next year and hopefully spreading the ball around will increase offensive productivity. if someone is looking for a pure offensive player to come in next year (outside of the current roster) and have significant minutes, I don't see it. I also think if we sign a freshman big, they have a very good shot of redshirting. Personally, if we don't get Yetna (unlikely), I would hope we get Reuter and have him sit out next year.

I think you are going to see it. Hueitt is the real deal man. Went and watched him play at Atlantic Shores, and he is a pure sniper. Quick release and good elevation. This kid is everything everyone is saying. I know he has to be good defensively, but he is going to hit shots if he gets the minutes. I would love to see him starting at the 2 and BJ at the 3. Talley spells BJ, while Green spells Hueitt. The other way around would be fine with me, but Hueitt is ready to score at the college level. Leave the leash at home.

He can certainly shoot it, but I would be surprised if he takes a ton of minutes day 1 from Talley/Stith/Green. He needs to get in the weight room and those guys are way more physically mature than him. If he does play a lot, then his talent was just too much to sit and that would be a good thing.

BJ really improved as the season went on. And Talley is pretty good himself. It is a lot to ask.

Personally I don't believe that Heuitt will be competing with BJ or Talley for minutes unless Jones changes one or both of them to play the 2. Unless Talley develops a 3 point shot then he would be like a fish out of water at the 2 for more than a choice few very specific instances. Heuitt's playing time would appear to be in competition with Xavier for Baker's former spot, and it is possible that Xavier is being considered for the back-up point guard spot as well. Don't know if Heuitt is able enough to be considered for that position, but it would be nice if he could play it.

To me, I just hope that Jones plays these guys (Xavier, Heuitt, Godwin, and Kah) without waiting for them to become an all world defender before they can get on the floor. We need some offensive punch either starting or off the bench, especially in shooting the 3.

He can handle the ball, but we really don't want Ahmad off the court very often.

About 3-4" too short!