I am happy about the success that Pastner is having success at Ga Tech. I was pulling for them against Indiana. I will be pulling for them to with the NIT.

Pastner is a good guy. He tried very hard to make things work here. It never felt like Pastner was lying or trying to bamboozle us. Even though he recruited well, I never felt like he was breaking any rules, and never felt like he would get us into any kind of trouble with the NCAA.

It looked like he was going to get it done here. Then, we lost to UConn by 30 in the AAC tournament here in the forum, and it all went south from there. Some of the reasons for the decline were his fault, some snowballed on him, and were out of his control. It just went south, and he had to go.

He could have made a big deal about his contract, but he didn't. He left for a job that paid less money, and was probably a lot harder, considering the league he was going to have to start playing (and winning) in.

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

Essentially, you are not so subtly masking a simple bash Josh effort here.

The way Narcissist left included actively recruiting Memphis commits and signees, while still on our payroll, to another school...and more.

Sometimes people think he left a Final Four team...but Anderson and Dozier finished school, John Wall, Xavier Henry and DeMarcus Cousins did not play here, Shawn Taggart left a star well. So in spite of stellar records the previous few years, the team that was left was...

Mack, Kemp, Spoon...with the nice addition of Elliott Williams. Will Coleman was a nice JUCO addition, but Pastner was hardly left a stellar squad. He slowly added better players and made four consecutive runs to the tourney...although, admittedly, and once again, fell short of getting over the hump and correctly left and it was time.

So Tubby started with less, but did have Dedric Lawson, KJ Lawson, a solid Jeremiah Martin, Marke Crawford and a bit more. Not as good as Elliott Williams an company, but not exactly being compared to a Final Four team being left behind in 2009.

Hopefully they add energy next year, most of that coming from the coach. That will remedy a lot of ills. So would stopping the continued odd waylaying of Pastner, who had his faults but hardly deserves to be treated as though the team had seven straight losing seasons.

(03-24-2017 11:07 AM)ksigtigerdood Wrote:  More so than just leaving and taking players, I believe the most anger comes from the fact that he left as we were getting the book thrown at us. When asked his opinion, all he could say was that it "was a Memphis problem". In reality, it was very much a Calipari problem.

I agree. That is what irked me the most, too. Leaving for UK? Most would. But the "I'm outta here" look when the walls were closing in left some serious stink.

(03-24-2017 05:14 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:54 AM)Trapper John Wrote:  It is definitely a mixed bag of reasons that can't stand up individually, yet taken all together does explain the long lasting resentment of Tiger fans. There are historical parallels - Ole Miss fans still hate Tuberville and UT fans still hate Kiffin. In all three scenarios, the team left has felt like they were on a level where they should not be losing coaches to other teams. In all three scenarios, especially here in Memphis, it felt like current reality was discarded for some hierarchical / historical standard where Kentucky was more desirable because "its Kentucky" and not because the current situation was better at Kentucky than at Memphis. Like Kentucky looked at Memphis and said "we want that - we'll take that." And part of the resentment of Tiger fans is that the reality of the NCAA is that that's how it works. What particularly stings in our case is that Coach Cal had built a system (an apparatus) that would guarantee sustained success, and Kentucky basically bought the whole system - not just the coach - and moved it to Lexington.

This very well sums up my thoughts about Calipari leaving. Great post!

I agree! I think a lot of the frustration stems from the fact that we gave Calipari everything that he needed to succeed. There was no reason for him to have to go to UK to have more success, and you could reasonably argue that he has had no more success at UK than he could have here. It was shown that he could compete at THE HIGHEST LEVEL HERE! He went to 3 straight Elite Eights and essentially won a National Championship in 2008 (still cant believe what happened). Everything was set up to make another run in 2010. His run of success was making ut even easier to recruit to Memphis. He/We had it made! But, that wasnt enough for him - he had to go to a blue blood program in order to prove that he was successful, that he had been accepted into the brotherhood. He could have cemented Memphis as a blue-blood program, but chose not to do so in order to fuel is ego.

I think we lost the Missouri S16 game in 2009 because of his pending departure. I don't know that he threw that game in order to speed the process, but I have no doubt that it was a distraction that led to our demise.

In addition, for him to say that Rose was a Memphis problem is BS. He was in charge of the program with complete control. I dont know whether he arranged for someone to take Rose's test. I don't know whether anyone associated with Memphis had anyhing to do with it - it could have just been someone is Rose's circle. And, of course, it may not have even happened.

Oh well, enough blathering from me.

I think the biggest thing he left us holding the bag. I just don't like people who aren't held accountable. He leaves another school on probation and gets in ZERO trouble. Quite the opposite. He has been elevated as the pinnacle of college basketball somehow. All this week, all over the media, not one hard question about his time here when he left. Just ridicule about the 'small Memphians' who don't respect this giant of college basketball. How on earth was the school put on probation and he's just allowed to take his dream job with no ramifications when everyone with half a brain KNOWS HE RAN THIS PROGRAM 110%. It's ridiculous and disingenuous.

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

DAMN get over your obsession with Pastner.

NO WAY he left the program in worse shape than Cal. He did not even take the one HS recruit with him when he left. And he certainly did not talk anyone into leaving after he was gone. Cal would have taken Keelon with him just to get his kids to follow him.

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

I don't hate Cal, I didn't hate him when he left. I was mad at how he left, since then I still don't like how he left but it doesn't bother me. Cal WON here and I was at every game. I loved Cal's style on the sidelines. I loved the way he was with the media. It was a fun grand ride.

As for Josh. I can't stand him. I began to not like him early in year two. Because of how he was with his players, constantly yanking them out of the game. Everything about him sucked to me. Anytime he spoke, I turned him off. He did not win here on the level that most Tiger fans expect. The constant losing to top 25 teams got old. As a season ticket holder and life long Tiger fan for 42 years, josh was by far my least favorite coach. Josh, Tic & Johnny are tied for last. I was so happy when Josh left. So while some fans cheer against Cal, I cheer against Wonder Boy. I've never cheered for ole miss before but I was really hoping Andy Kennedy would beat josh. Josh made Tiger basketball unpleasant as poop.

I hated Cal at first, and still resent the sanctions that came to light after he left. And he left unfinished business regarding that NC game.

Pastner - it was time for him to leave. He couldn't change the course the program started taking during his tenure.

I enjoyed the winning while Cal was here, but looking back now at the price we paid because of him. RC basically handed over running the department to Cal, and he was allowed to pull the strings to further reduce our football program to minimalist levels. We are still trying to climb out of that abyss and seem to be starting to make the moves needed.

We are still in a shaky position, and a bad hire can torpedo any recent success we have seen - in either sport.

(03-24-2017 05:56 PM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 05:14 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:54 AM)Trapper John Wrote:  It is definitely a mixed bag of reasons that can't stand up individually, yet taken all together does explain the long lasting resentment of Tiger fans. There are historical parallels - Ole Miss fans still hate Tuberville and UT fans still hate Kiffin. In all three scenarios, the team left has felt like they were on a level where they should not be losing coaches to other teams. In all three scenarios, especially here in Memphis, it felt like current reality was discarded for some hierarchical / historical standard where Kentucky was more desirable because "its Kentucky" and not because the current situation was better at Kentucky than at Memphis. Like Kentucky looked at Memphis and said "we want that - we'll take that." And part of the resentment of Tiger fans is that the reality of the NCAA is that that's how it works. What particularly stings in our case is that Coach Cal had built a system (an apparatus) that would guarantee sustained success, and Kentucky basically bought the whole system - not just the coach - and moved it to Lexington.

This very well sums up my thoughts about Calipari leaving. Great post!

I agree! I think a lot of the frustration stems from the fact that we gave Calipari everything that he needed to succeed. There was no reason for him to have to go to UK to have more success, and you could reasonably argue that he has had no more success at UK than he could have here. It was shown that he could compete at THE HIGHEST LEVEL HERE! He went to 3 straight Elite Eights and essentially won a National Championship in 2008 (still cant believe what happened). Everything was set up to make another run in 2010. His run of success was making ut even easier to recruit to Memphis. He/We had it made! But, that wasnt enough for him - he had to go to a blue blood program in order to prove that he was successful, that he had been accepted into the brotherhood. He could have cemented Memphis as a blue-blood program, but chose not to do so in order to fuel is ego.

I think we lost the Missouri S16 game in 2009 because of his pending departure. I don't know that he threw that game in order to speed the process, but I have no doubt that it was a distraction that led to our demise.

In addition, for him to say that Rose was a Memphis problem is BS. He was in charge of the program with complete control. I dont know whether he arranged for someone to take Rose's test. I don't know whether anyone associated with Memphis had anyhing to do with it - it could have just been someone is Rose's circle. And, of course, it may not have even happened.

Oh well, enough blathering from me.

^^^^THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS ^^^^ NAILED IT !!!!

(03-24-2017 11:39 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

Whaaaaaaatttttt?

For six years after Cal, all we ever heard was CAL NUKED THE PROGRAM!!!!.

(Note: I don't buy that for one second)

If you don't think Cal nuked the program, you can think it - but he left it in a pretty sorry state.

What Josh left was worse

Not sure Cal nuked the program. He just took it to UK. He had made it his program.

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

another point on this...Pastner admitted to his part in helping Cal get the recruits to go to UK.....at the time...he thought he was going there too.

(03-24-2017 10:01 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:57 AM)rolexjames Wrote:  Nobody like Cal except the team he coaches for period. What left a bad taste with Cal is that he constantly praised the Memphis job as better than the Kentucky job, but left for the Kentucky job as soon as he could.

Well yeah. He's a salesman. It's what makes him so good, and what makes him so...gross. But we knew what we were getting into. We sold our souls for wins and everyone got what they wanted out of it.

We got the best 4 year run in CBB history. Cal got rich and was able to jump to a blueblood program.

Cal GOT rich?
Dude...he already had $25 million severance pay from the New Jersey Nets...he was already rich.

(03-24-2017 07:33 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

DAMN get over your obsession with Pastner.

NO WAY he left the program in worse shape than Cal. He did not even take the one HS recruit with him when he left. And he certainly did not talk anyone into leaving after he was gone. Cal would have taken Keelon with him just to get his kids to follow him.

I no longer hold a grudge against either but it's ridiculous to say that Calipari left the program in worse shape than Pastner. As others have stated, Calipari left a rabid and very supportive fan base, as well as a national recruiting brand - neither of which was left for Tubby. Look at it this way - if Pastner had inherited the program in its current shape, do you believe he could have immediately pulled in the 4* and 5* recruits he did, sold as many season tickets, or packed the FEF for midnight madness? If you think so, you live in a fantasy world.

(03-25-2017 08:12 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:33 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

DAMN get over your obsession with Pastner.

NO WAY he left the program in worse shape than Cal. He did not even take the one HS recruit with him when he left. And he certainly did not talk anyone into leaving after he was gone. Cal would have taken Keelon with him just to get his kids to follow him.

I no longer hold a grudge against either but it's ridiculous to say that Calipari left the program in worse shape than Pastner. As others have stated, Calipari left a rabid and very supportive fan base, as well as a national recruiting brand - neither of which was left for Tubby. Look at it this way - if Pastner had inherited the program in its current shape, do you believe he could have immediately pulled in the 4* and 5* recruits he did, sold as many season tickets, or packed the FEF for midnight madness? If you think so, you live in a fantasy world.

Bingo!!!!!

(03-25-2017 08:33 AM)TubbyTime Wrote:  

(03-25-2017 08:12 AM)presskh Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 07:33 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

DAMN get over your obsession with Pastner.

NO WAY he left the program in worse shape than Cal. He did not even take the one HS recruit with him when he left. And he certainly did not talk anyone into leaving after he was gone. Cal would have taken Keelon with him just to get his kids to follow him.

I no longer hold a grudge against either but it's ridiculous to say that Calipari left the program in worse shape than Pastner. As others have stated, Calipari left a rabid and very supportive fan base, as well as a national recruiting brand - neither of which was left for Tubby. Look at it this way - if Pastner had inherited the program in its current shape, do you believe he could have immediately pulled in the 4* and 5* recruits he did, sold as many season tickets, or packed the FEF for midnight madness? If you think so, you live in a fantasy world.

Bingo!!!!!

BAM! You can argue that the starting roster that Pastner left behind was better, the state of the overall program was CRAP!

Josh was cute and made the old ladies blush.

(03-24-2017 09:26 AM)Marc Mensa Wrote:  No question Cal left the program in much better shape than Pastner. I simply think people were more emotionally invested in Cal. By the time Pastner left, the damage had been done and many Memphians had tuned out the Tigers and tuned into the Grizzlies.

I tend to disagree. The Grizz have been good for the city (as they should be), but the Grizz aren't the reason Tiger fans have tuned out. I have many friends who are huge Tiger fans, but also are fans of the Grizz, buying season tix to both. In my opinion, Tiger fans have tuned out over the last few years due to incompetence at all levels, from former coach (hired way too young and too inexperienced), continual drama (player discontent, along with over the top player transfers), and mounting losses, some in blowout fashion. Winning, getting ranked, and NCAA runs will again draw the large crowds as in the past. whether the Grizz are here or not. It's a known fact, Memphis supports winners in a big way, losers, not so much. There is room for both in this city. As long as they're winning they'll be supported, start losing and it's see ya.

(03-24-2017 11:19 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:39 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

Whaaaaaaatttttt?

For six years after Cal, all we ever heard was CAL NUKED THE PROGRAM!!!!.

(Note: I don't buy that for one second)

If you don't think Cal nuked the program, you can think it - but he left it in a pretty sorry state.

What Josh left was worse

Not sure Cal nuked the program. He just took it to UK. He had made it his program.

The "took it to UK" part is one thing that really irked me. If Cal didn't have that loaded class coming in for 2010, would they have gone as hard after Cal as they did? You could argue that they hired that 2010 class as much as they hired Cal - a 2010 class that was recruited on Memphis' time and money.

I do think that the NCAA should have a rule that at the least does not allow a player to follow a coach if the player has already signed a LOI, or even publicly committed. This would prevent a program from "hiring" players recruited to another school. Some argue that the player should be able to play for that coach still, but you can't tell me that there is only ONE coach that a player would like to play for. And, if the Coach really cares about that player, he would think twice before bailing on his current school and recruits.

My $0.02...about what it's worth!

(03-25-2017 08:55 AM)hsvtiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:19 PM)cvilletiger Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 11:39 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:32 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(03-24-2017 09:20 AM)HometownTiger Wrote:  Why do so many hate Calipari, yet so many wish Pastner well? Is it as simple as one is considered a slime ball & one is considered salt of the earth?

Because Cal - despite everything - left this basketball program in better shape than Pastner did. I keep hearing things like... "I HATE Cal because of the way he left the program". So, do those same people HATE Josh Pastner??

FWIW - I once hated Cal. I've moved on. I certainly don't root for the guy, but I don't HATE him anymore. IMO he did way more good than harm and I'm thankful for that. Don't really BLAME him for taking players, though it sucked.

Anyways... why hate Cal and not Pastner? We are where we are today because of Josh, not John ...

Whaaaaaaatttttt?

For six years after Cal, all we ever heard was CAL NUKED THE PROGRAM!!!!.

(Note: I don't buy that for one second)

If you don't think Cal nuked the program, you can think it - but he left it in a pretty sorry state.

What Josh left was worse

Not sure Cal nuked the program. He just took it to UK. He had made it his program.

The "took it to UK" part is one thing that really irked me. If Cal didn't have that loaded class coming in for 2010, would they have gone as hard after Cal as they did? You could argue that they hired that 2010 class as much as they hired Cal - a 2010 class that was recruited on Memphis' time and money.

I do think that the NCAA should have a rule that at the least does not allow a player to follow a coach if the player has already signed a LOI, or even publicly committed. This would prevent a program from "hiring" players recruited to another school. Some argue that the player should be able to play for that coach still, but you can't tell me that there is only ONE coach that a player would like to play for. And, if the Coach really cares about that player, he would think twice before bailing on his current school and recruits.

My $0.02...about what it's worth!

The NCAA has that rule and it was passed not long after cal left

I believe he had those recruits hold off signing the LOI...

They were verbal commits IIRC.