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Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St AAC could happen in few months
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #141
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 12:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 12:02 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 10:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 10:04 AM)stever20 Wrote:  And of those 5 teams since 2015- 3 of them only got in because they won their conference tourney. Nevada, Fresno, and Wyoming.

Nevada got in because they won their conference period. That is not a valid point because there is always going to be an auto-qualifier. How about all those years when Gonzaga made the lone appearance?

The fact remains that in the last ten years, hell we can go all the way back to 2002 when Pepperdine made an appearance to help your case, the MWC has 10/11 teams making tournament appearances (SJSU is hot garbage and hasn't been since their Big West days with an upset tourney victory and losing record) while the WCC has 5/10.

The MWC is much stronger top to bottom than the WCC and it's not even close.
Sure Gonzaga may have made the lone appearance- BUT they would have been in if they hadn't won the conference tourney. You can not say the same about the MWC schools here recently. MWC lost some really good basketball when BYU and Utah both left. The conference isn't close at all to what it used to be.

Also the problem is conferences are measured what they are at the top. And if you take all 21 teams from the conferences- right now the WCC would have probably the top 3 teams.

Yeah, and San Diego wouldn't have made the dance either, that's the point.

Conferences absolutely are not measured by where they are at the top or there wouldn't be so many mid-major snubs! The WCC has two great coaches that are content where they are and BYU.

The MWC four years ago (2013) is the exact same MWC right now (minus a historically strong Utah State and a historically abysmal SJSU). There were FIVE representatives from the conference in the NCAA tournament: UNM (regular season and tournament champ), Colorado State, UNLV, SDSU, and Boise State. That's four at-larges! The WCC will never sniff that.

And the MWC will never sniff that either again. And the conference hasn't been all that.
New Mexico 5 NCAA trips since 1999. 2 wins.
UNLV 7 NCAA trips since 1999. 3 wins.
SD St 8 NCAA trips since 1999. 6 wins.
Boise 3 NCAA trips since 1999. 0 wins.
Colorado St 3 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Fresno St 2 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Nevada 5 NCAA trips since 1999. 4 wins.
Utah St 8 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Wyoming 2 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Air Force 2 NCAA trips since 1999 0 wins.
San Jose St 0

so as a conference- 45 trips since 1999. 18 years. Several of those trips auto bids from MWC and WAC. only 19 wins in those 18 years.
The WCC teams even w/o Gonzaga- 25 trips and 12 wins. Add them in and it's 43 trips and 35 wins.

"The WCC teams even w/o Gonzaga-25 trips and 12 wins."---No way That's not possible. I see St Mary's going to the NCAA's several times, but that's not 25.
*EDIT. Ok, I see what you did. You counted all the BYU games when they were members of the MWC as WCC games/wins. BYU has been to 2 NCAA tournaments as WCC members. Slick but I caught it.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 03:54 PM by billybobby777.)
03-22-2017 03:49 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #142
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:27 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  LOL... This thread has gone off road

Well, count me as one who puts that stuff out there because I don't quite understand what Wichita is doing now that gets any better in the AAC?

This is year, what, three or four for the conference, and it's still getting the shaft in some kind of way, either losing bids or getting crap seeds. For Wichita, it's basically a lateral move.

Same goes for MWC.

If they want their hoops in a better place, and it isn't one of the P5, then it's Big East or Atlantic 10.

It's no better anywhere else. They'll get stuck with bad programs or get lost among former greats anywhere else. Literally.

All about job security and potential.

Just imagine how good the AAC can be when the top teams are performing.

Uconn, Temple, Cincinnati, SMU, Memphis, then throw Wichita in there. That's six teams that are normally very good.

And it's not as if Tulsa and Houston have terrible programs either. And also throwing in VCU and Dayton.....It's pretty stupid to call this a lateral move, they would be easily be one of the top 5 conferences most years.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 04:06 PM by TrojanCampaign.)
03-22-2017 04:02 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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Post: #143
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 04:02 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:27 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  LOL... This thread has gone off road

Well, count me as one who puts that stuff out there because I don't quite understand what Wichita is doing now that gets any better in the AAC?

This is year, what, three or four for the conference, and it's still getting the shaft in some kind of way, either losing bids or getting crap seeds. For Wichita, it's basically a lateral move.

Same goes for MWC.

If they want their hoops in a better place, and it isn't one of the P5, then it's Big East or Atlantic 10.

It's no better anywhere else. They'll get stuck with bad programs or get lost among former greats anywhere else. Literally.

All about job security and potential.

Just imagine how good the AAC can be when the top teams are performing.

Uconn, Temple, Cincinnati, SMU, Memphis, then throw Wichita in there. That's seven teams that are normally very good.

And it's not as if Tulsa and Houston have terrible programs either. And also throwing in VCU and Dayton.....It's pretty stupid to call this a lateral move, they would be easily be one of the top 5 conferences most years.

AAC is a better league than the Atlantic 10 as well.
03-22-2017 04:05 PM
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TrojanCampaign Offline
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Post: #144
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 04:05 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 04:02 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:27 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  LOL... This thread has gone off road

Well, count me as one who puts that stuff out there because I don't quite understand what Wichita is doing now that gets any better in the AAC?

This is year, what, three or four for the conference, and it's still getting the shaft in some kind of way, either losing bids or getting crap seeds. For Wichita, it's basically a lateral move.

Same goes for MWC.

If they want their hoops in a better place, and it isn't one of the P5, then it's Big East or Atlantic 10.

It's no better anywhere else. They'll get stuck with bad programs or get lost among former greats anywhere else. Literally.

All about job security and potential.

Just imagine how good the AAC can be when the top teams are performing.

Uconn, Temple, Cincinnati, SMU, Memphis, then throw Wichita in there. That's seven teams that are normally very good.

And it's not as if Tulsa and Houston have terrible programs either. And also throwing in VCU and Dayton.....It's pretty stupid to call this a lateral move, they would be easily be one of the top 5 conferences most years.

AAC is a better league than the Atlantic 10 as well.

Exactly, I'm not sure where he is getting only the Big East or A10 are good options. It's only going to take one of Wichita State, VCU, and Dayton to bolt for them all to bolt.
03-22-2017 04:12 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #145
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
Assuming the AAC is actually ready, with votes in hand, to add all three right now, sans a UConn departure.

Football first schools (Florida's, ECU, Navy) are probably OK with WSU, but might not be for two additional non-football schools.
03-22-2017 04:20 PM
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Post: #146
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 09:47 AM)TheBasketBallOpinion Wrote:  Makes sense for WSU for the short term...but does anyone actually think Cincy/UCONN are in the AAC forever?

I guess they could always move again once that domino falls

ACC fans. New and old.
03-22-2017 04:27 PM
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BigHouston Offline
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Post: #147
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 04:05 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 04:02 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:27 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  LOL... This thread has gone off road

Well, count me as one who puts that stuff out there because I don't quite understand what Wichita is doing now that gets any better in the AAC?

This is year, what, three or four for the conference, and it's still getting the shaft in some kind of way, either losing bids or getting crap seeds. For Wichita, it's basically a lateral move.

Same goes for MWC.

If they want their hoops in a better place, and it isn't one of the P5, then it's Big East or Atlantic 10.

It's no better anywhere else. They'll get stuck with bad programs or get lost among former greats anywhere else. Literally.

All about job security and potential.

Just imagine how good the AAC can be when the top teams are performing.

Uconn, Temple, Cincinnati, SMU, Memphis, then throw Wichita in there. That's seven teams that are normally very good.

And it's not as if Tulsa and Houston have terrible programs either. And also throwing in VCU and Dayton.....It's pretty stupid to call this a lateral move, they would be easily be one of the top 5 conferences most years.

AAC is a better league than the Atlantic 10 as well.

"a lateral move"

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03-22-2017 05:15 PM
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LostInSpace Offline
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Post: #148
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:27 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  LOL... This thread has gone off road

Well, count me as one who puts that stuff out there because I don't quite understand what Wichita is doing now that gets any better in the AAC?

This is year, what, three or four for the conference, and it's still getting the shaft in some kind of way, either losing bids or getting crap seeds. For Wichita, it's basically a lateral move.

Same goes for MWC.

If they want their hoops in a better place, and it isn't one of the P5, then it's Big East or Atlantic 10.

It's no better anywhere else. They'll get stuck with bad programs or get lost among former greats anywhere else. Literally.

Niether the Big East or the A10 has any interest in WSU so they aren't realistic options. The MVC is a one bid conference with WSU. The AAC is big step up for media exposure, money and conference strength. The AAC with WSU is going to finish with a better RPI than the A10 even if Memphis, Temple and UCONN don't turn things around. If two or three of those schools get back to being in regular contention for at-large spots, there will be a fairly significant gap between the two conferences.

The AAC is a good geographic fit for WSU too; far better than the A10 and somewhat better than the Big East.
03-22-2017 05:17 PM
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SubGod22 Offline
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Post: #149
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 05:17 PM)LostInSpace Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:45 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 03:27 PM)BigHouston Wrote:  LOL... This thread has gone off road

Well, count me as one who puts that stuff out there because I don't quite understand what Wichita is doing now that gets any better in the AAC?

This is year, what, three or four for the conference, and it's still getting the shaft in some kind of way, either losing bids or getting crap seeds. For Wichita, it's basically a lateral move.

Same goes for MWC.

If they want their hoops in a better place, and it isn't one of the P5, then it's Big East or Atlantic 10.

It's no better anywhere else. They'll get stuck with bad programs or get lost among former greats anywhere else. Literally.

Niether the Big East or the A10 has any interest in WSU so they aren't realistic options. The MVC is a one bid conference with WSU. The AAC is big step up for media exposure, money and conference strength. The AAC with WSU is going to finish with a better RPI than the A10 even if Memphis, Temple and UCONN don't turn things around. If two or three of those schools get back to being in regular contention for at-large spots, there will be a fairly significant gap between the two conferences.

The AAC is a good geographic fit for WSU too; far better than the A10 and somewhat better than the Big East.

Outside of being better for basketball, it puts us in areas we recruit students (OK/TX) and aligns us with other research focused universities that have similar academic focuses and priorities.

Back to basketball, it is and should remain stronger than the MVC. You're talking about more TV exposure and better opponents and tougher games. All good things for Wichita.
03-22-2017 05:22 PM
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BigHouston Offline
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Post: #150
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 04:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Assuming the AAC is actually ready, with votes in hand, to add all three right now, sans a UConn departure.

Football first schools (Florida's, ECU, Navy) are probably OK with WSU, but might not be for two additional non-football schools.

I'm actually not in favor of all three... If the AAC is serious about strengthening basketball, Wichita State and VCU would be my only choices.

Cincinnati, UConn, Memphis, Temple Wichita State, VCU, SMU, Houston, Tulsa

That right there ^^^ looks sexy enough
03-22-2017 05:28 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #151
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 12:46 PM)ManleyPointer Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 09:56 AM)esayem Wrote:  To illustrate my point, one would have to go back to 2008 for a school outside Gonzaga, St. Mary's, or BYU to make a tournament appearance from the WCC. In 2008 San Diego went dancing because of an upset victory in the conference tournament. Before that? San Diego once again with an upset victory... in 2003! The BYU addition was a great move by the WCC to try and strengthen their profile.

Let's compare that to the MWC:

Just going back to 2015, Nevada, SDSU, Fresno State, Boise State, Wyoming. 2014, add UNM. 2013, add UNLV and Colorado State.

I rest my case.
You're also overlooking Pacific's tourney appearance in 2013.

They were in the Big West still.
03-22-2017 06:59 PM
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esayem Offline
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Post: #152
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 12:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 12:02 PM)esayem Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 10:38 AM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 10:14 AM)esayem Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 10:04 AM)stever20 Wrote:  And of those 5 teams since 2015- 3 of them only got in because they won their conference tourney. Nevada, Fresno, and Wyoming.

Nevada got in because they won their conference period. That is not a valid point because there is always going to be an auto-qualifier. How about all those years when Gonzaga made the lone appearance?

The fact remains that in the last ten years, hell we can go all the way back to 2002 when Pepperdine made an appearance to help your case, the MWC has 10/11 teams making tournament appearances (SJSU is hot garbage and hasn't been since their Big West days with an upset tourney victory and losing record) while the WCC has 5/10.

The MWC is much stronger top to bottom than the WCC and it's not even close.
Sure Gonzaga may have made the lone appearance- BUT they would have been in if they hadn't won the conference tourney. You can not say the same about the MWC schools here recently. MWC lost some really good basketball when BYU and Utah both left. The conference isn't close at all to what it used to be.

Also the problem is conferences are measured what they are at the top. And if you take all 21 teams from the conferences- right now the WCC would have probably the top 3 teams.

Yeah, and San Diego wouldn't have made the dance either, that's the point.

Conferences absolutely are not measured by where they are at the top or there wouldn't be so many mid-major snubs! The WCC has two great coaches that are content where they are and BYU.

The MWC four years ago (2013) is the exact same MWC right now (minus a historically strong Utah State and a historically abysmal SJSU). There were FIVE representatives from the conference in the NCAA tournament: UNM (regular season and tournament champ), Colorado State, UNLV, SDSU, and Boise State. That's four at-larges! The WCC will never sniff that.

And the MWC will never sniff that either again. And the conference hasn't been all that.
New Mexico 5 NCAA trips since 1999. 2 wins.
UNLV 7 NCAA trips since 1999. 3 wins.
SD St 8 NCAA trips since 1999. 6 wins.
Boise 3 NCAA trips since 1999. 0 wins.
Colorado St 3 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Fresno St 2 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Nevada 5 NCAA trips since 1999. 4 wins.
Utah St 8 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Wyoming 2 NCAA trips since 1999. 1 win.
Air Force 2 NCAA trips since 1999 0 wins.
San Jose St 0

so as a conference- 45 trips since 1999. 18 years. Several of those trips auto bids from MWC and WAC. only 19 wins in those 18 years.
The WCC teams even w/o Gonzaga- 25 trips and 12 wins. Add them in and it's 43 trips and 35 wins.

I'm not arguing that Gonzaga isn't the best program of the two conferences (it's all Mark Few btw), but take out the top two teams of each and it is evident which conference is stronger from top to bottom. The WCC is extremely top heavy like the old Big West with UNLV and New Mexico State (with three instead of two programs), but every other program is subpar. Gonzaga would not steamroll through the Mountain West every season like they do the WCC. There is more talent and better coaching week after week and that takes a toll; something Gonzaga has the luxury of avoiding.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 07:23 PM by esayem.)
03-22-2017 07:22 PM
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oliveandblue Offline
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Post: #153
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
URI's the best fit IMO, but I'm 110% cool with WSU. Another good hoops school will make it even tougher to get out of the bottom four if you're Tulane (and maybe that's a good thing, I don't know).

I bring up URI because I'm partial to schools that are the #1 option in their state - even if it's a weaker one. It helps with perception over a long period of time.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 07:51 PM by oliveandblue.)
03-22-2017 07:48 PM
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gosports1 Offline
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Post: #154
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
why isn't anyone talking about UConn?
03-22-2017 09:44 PM
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Post: #155
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 09:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  why isn't anyone talking about UConn?

For what reason would UCONN be talked about in this thread?
03-22-2017 11:18 PM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #156
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 04:05 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  AAC is a better league than the Atlantic 10 as well.

Is it? It should be. It's not quite there, though.

This year, you had two AAC teams in the RPI Top 50 to the A10's three. Four in the top 100 for AAC to the A10's six. Last year, it was 3/6 to 4/6 respectively, and 4/6 to 3/8 respectively in 14-15.

It would be awesome if the AAC had eight top 100 teams, and even better if the conference could get six tournament bids (A10 did that in 2014, without Xavier and Butler in the group). The AAC should be doing this. It's not. Yet.

I know anything that resembles the faintest bit of criticism toward the AAC and its members is like instigating a hornets' nest, but the data is simply the data. And, I think Wichita wants to go to a place where its basketball can not only succeed, but enhance. Again, tell me how that is the AAC now. Because, this looks and sounds exactly like CUSA after 2005/6. And that conference, with its basketball pedigree, shouldn't be *that* bad.

I also suspect Cincy and UConn aren't long for the AAC. So, whatever Wichita thinks it will get? It could be better than MVC. They will still have to prop up the conference as they do now...and that's where the "lateral" thing comes from.
03-23-2017 09:22 AM
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stever20 Offline
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Post: #157
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
AAC minus Cincy and UConn- this year had 1 top 50 3 top 100 6 top 150
MVC minus Wichita- this year had 1 top 50 1 top 100 2 top 150

It's not like Wichita is moving from this incredible conference.

And frankly, that's assuming Cincy and UConn leave. And that's a huge assumption.
03-23-2017 09:44 AM
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Phlipper33 Offline
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Post: #158
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-22-2017 11:18 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 09:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  why isn't anyone talking about UConn?

For what reason would UCONN be talked about in this thread?

Why isn't anyone talking about West Texas A&M or Arkansas Tech?
Wait, there's 16 pages here. I'm sure at least one of them has been brought up at least once.
03-23-2017 09:44 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #159
RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
(03-23-2017 09:44 AM)stever20 Wrote:  AAC minus Cincy and UConn- this year had 1 top 50 3 top 100 6 top 150
MVC minus Wichita- this year had 1 top 50 1 top 100 2 top 150

It's not like Wichita is moving from this incredible conference.

And frankly, that's assuming Cincy and UConn leave. And that's a huge assumption.

Yes, that is a huge assumption. Is becoming fairly obvious that UConn and Cincy are not going anywhere anytime soon. However, i think you miss the real point. Lets look at Whichitas current situation and thier potential new situation without all the BS. Based on your numbers it would look something like this--but

MVC-2 top 50, 1 top 100, 2 top 150
AAC-3 top 50, 4 top 100, 7 top 150

It's not even close now---And that's a year when UConn, Temple, and Memphis all did poorly. How often is that likely to be the case? I think what this shows is that the key for the better non-power basketball programs is to gather together like the Big East did. That's going to make a real difference in RPI and help to generate at large bids. That's why I would add VCU and Dayton as well.
(This post was last modified: 03-23-2017 10:15 AM by Attackcoog.)
03-23-2017 10:03 AM
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billybobby777 Offline
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RE: Pete Thamel of SI saying Wichita St/AAC could happen in few months
ESPN.com has an article about Wichita St going to the AAC probably. It's written by Andy Katz.
03-23-2017 10:35 AM
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