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Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 12:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 12:20 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Because it's totalitarianism at its finest.

Of course it's not.

You'll have to do better than "any law I don't like, is totalitarianism". Tough s___.

Laws designed to restrict the liberty of others speech, religion, and association in acts that cause *literally* no harm to another is toltarianism.

You are demand total subservience in matters of faith and association to the state...

Quote:
(03-21-2017 12:20 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  stop pretending that the amount of government money in a scenario has literally nothing to do with your desire to crush an organization?

I truly don't follow you. I desire to crush no one.

You desire to destroy business owners who refuse to participate in a religious event which cuts against their faith.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2017 01:17 PM by Bull_Is_Back.)
03-21-2017 12:50 PM
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NIU007 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 10:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-20-2017 10:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Atheism is not a religion, any more than not believing in Santa Claus is a religion.

I will admit that going out of your way to tell people your point of view when you're atheist when it isn't wanted can be rude, every bit as much as if a religious person tried to convince me of their point of view. I generally leave people alone unless they start in on it first.

Atheism requires a leap of faith that there is no God when they can't prove it, just as religion requires a leap of faith when there is no tangible proof.

Agnostics are just wishy-washy and aren't willing to take a leap of faith.
04-cheers

Atheism doesn't require any leap of faith. It really doesn't matter if we can prove 100% one way or the other, just as we can't prove there is no Santa Claus or Bigfoot - doesn't affect one's life at all.
03-21-2017 02:11 PM
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Kaplony Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 12:46 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 10:53 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(03-20-2017 05:01 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  
(03-20-2017 10:45 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  Alito is correct. Especially when you consider that we currently have a ban on Muslims.

We do? Since when?

I still want to hear about this supposed Muslim ban we have.

Oh wait. It was supposed to start on the 16th but it got stopped again I think. 03-lmfao03-lmfao03-lmfao

It's comforting to see that your "vacation" didn't cause you to lose your ability to provide us with entertaining Fitfails.
03-21-2017 02:16 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-20-2017 04:58 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 10:37 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Everyone has the freedom to not practice a religion. Note to those who don't: That same freedom means those who want to can.

Only so far as you do it in your private homes or places of worship, where everyone agrees to said practices.

You don't get to restrict the freedom or economic opportunities of anyone else here on earth, simply because your god commands it.

(03-21-2017 09:07 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-20-2017 10:04 PM)Paul M Wrote:  So what god is this you speak of?

You want to use your god as an excuse to limit the freedom and economic opportunities of other Americans.

(03-21-2017 10:54 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 09:35 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Will someone kindly say what these "freedom and economic opportunities" being limited are.

No one need answer such an irrelevant, strawman question. The actual discussion is at a higher level than arbitrarily listing off a million things.

That discussion is if people should be allowed to use an excuse of "serving my god's will" to commit crimes, like discrimination. If you'd like to engage in it, then come up with an intelligent argument to posit.

You brought the "strawman" up. Twice. I'm asking you to explain yourself sunshine.

Anywho, not baking someone a cake is not discrimination nor a crime. It's freedom of religion. A little document guarantees that. Something that document doesn't guarantee... cake.
03-21-2017 09:26 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 12:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  acts that cause *literally* no harm to another

And there you have it.

A person who has never been discriminated against in his lifetime, telling people who have been discriminated against and felt that pain and embarrassment, that they actually were dealt no harm.

Must be nice to be a white, straight, Christian male, in this country.

(03-21-2017 12:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  You desire to destroy business owners who refuse to participate in a religious event which cuts against their faith.

If they can avoid those events without committing crimes, then they owe no debt.

If they commit crime (discrimination), they must be punished accordingly. That is how law and enforcement works.


(03-21-2017 09:26 PM)Paul M Wrote:  not baking someone a cake is not discrimination nor a crime.

If you refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple, because they're a gay couple, that's the definition of discrimination.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2017 10:20 PM by MplsBison.)
03-21-2017 10:20 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
If you refuse to bake them a cake on religious grounds, that's the definition of religious freedom.
03-21-2017 10:29 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 10:29 PM)Paul M Wrote:  If you refuse to bake them a cake on religious grounds, that's the definition of religious freedom.

If you beat your wife on religious grounds, that's the definition of religious freedom.
(This post was last modified: 03-21-2017 10:31 PM by MplsBison.)
03-21-2017 10:31 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 10:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 10:29 PM)Paul M Wrote:  If you refuse to bake them a cake on religious grounds, that's the definition of religious freedom.

If you beat your wife on religious grounds, that's the definition of religious freedom.

And what religious grounds are there to beat your wife? Excluding the Islamic faith of course.
03-21-2017 10:37 PM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 10:20 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 12:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  acts that cause *literally* no harm to another

And there you have it.

A person who has never been discriminated against in his lifetime, telling people who have been discriminated against and felt that pain and embarrassment, that they actually were dealt no harm.

I'm in an interracial marriage, with kids who don't look at all white. You don't know me so STFU about my life experience.

Having to pick someone else ot make your cake because you're gay, or going to a different bar because you're wearing a trump hat is a first world problem of the highest magnitude.

There is no real harm involved. Being offended is not harm.

Quote:Must be nice to be a white, straight, Christian male, in this country.

You left out cis-gendered you insensitive clod...

[Image: s4ruc.jpg]

Quote:
(03-21-2017 12:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  You desire to destroy business owners who refuse to participate in a religious event which cuts against their faith.

If they can avoid those events without committing crimes, then they owe no debt.

If they commit crime (discrimination), they must be punished accordingly. That is how law and enforcement works.

Yea, I've already seen your despicable "spit in their food when they're not looking" solution to this problem.


Quote:
(03-21-2017 09:26 PM)Paul M Wrote:  not baking someone a cake is not discrimination nor a crime.

If you refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple, because they're a gay couple, that's the definition of discrimination.

But if you tell them you will, then miss their wedding on purpose, that's a-ok...

Liberal logic.
03-21-2017 10:50 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 10:37 PM)Paul M Wrote:  And what religious grounds are there to beat your wife?

Ah, so only Christians get to commit crimes in the name of their god. All other religious don't get to.


(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  There is no real harm involved.

Arbitrary, made up definition of "harm".

Discrimination is a crime, for good reason.

PS - being married to an Asian woman doesn't count. That's like proclaiming yourself a farmer because you got some dirt on your running shoes.


(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Yea, I've already seen your despicable

Much less despicable to discriminate. Sheesh, some world you live in.


(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  But if you tell them you will, then miss their wedding on purpose, that's a-ok...

That's not at all what I said. What I said is that before the due date, you get back to them that because of such and such, I won't be able to meet the due date anymore.

That give them plenty of time to find a new baker.
03-22-2017 08:50 AM
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RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-21-2017 02:11 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 10:02 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(03-20-2017 10:54 AM)NIU007 Wrote:  Atheism is not a religion, any more than not believing in Santa Claus is a religion.

I will admit that going out of your way to tell people your point of view when you're atheist when it isn't wanted can be rude, every bit as much as if a religious person tried to convince me of their point of view. I generally leave people alone unless they start in on it first.

Atheism requires a leap of faith that there is no God when they can't prove it, just as religion requires a leap of faith when there is no tangible proof.

Agnostics are just wishy-washy and aren't willing to take a leap of faith.
04-cheers

Atheism doesn't require any leap of faith. It really doesn't matter if we can prove 100% one way or the other, just as we can't prove there is no Santa Claus or Bigfoot - doesn't affect one's life at all.

Blind hypocrisy.
03-22-2017 08:54 AM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 08:50 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 10:37 PM)Paul M Wrote:  And what religious grounds are there to beat your wife?

Ah, so only Christians get to commit crimes in the name of their god. All other religious don't get to.

I'll just quote your words from farther down in this post. "That's not at all what I said." Don't really know why. Don't know wtf you're trying to get out.

Let's try again. On what religious grounds do CHRISTIANS have to beat their wives?



(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  There is no real harm involved.

Arbitrary, made up definition of "harm".

Discrimination is a crime, for good reason.

PS - being married to an Asian woman doesn't count. That's like proclaiming yourself a farmer because you got some dirt on your running shoes.


(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Yea, I've already seen your despicable

Much less despicable to discriminate. Sheesh, some world you live in.


(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  But if you tell them you will, then miss their wedding on purpose, that's a-ok...

That's not at all what I said. What I said is that before the due date, you get back to them that because of such and such, I won't be able to meet the due date anymore.

That give them plenty of time to find a new baker.

You could also tell them you aren't interested in baking them a cake day one giving them waaay more time to find another baker. Your scenario gives them a shorter amount of time. Seems the up front honesty would be much more desirable.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 09:05 AM by Paul M.)
03-22-2017 09:05 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 09:05 AM)Paul M Wrote:  On what religious grounds do CHRISTIANS have to beat their wives?

Irrelevant question, because it shouldn't just be Christians who get to claim "religious freedom", right??


(03-22-2017 09:05 AM)Paul M Wrote:  You could also tell them you aren't interested in baking them a cake

That's discrimination, which is illegal. They should sue you.
03-22-2017 09:11 AM
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Paul M Offline
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RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
Not going to get any sense out of you I guess. Just this irrelevant editing and dismissal of your own brought up points.
03-22-2017 09:15 AM
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The Sicatoka Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
Everyone believes in something.

The something to some is nothing.
03-22-2017 09:32 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 08:50 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  There is no real harm involved.

Arbitrary, made up definition of "harm".

Dictionary: physical injury, especially that which is deliberately inflicted.

That's not arbitrary, it's the English language.

Quote:PS - being married to an Asian woman doesn't count. That's like proclaiming yourself a farmer because you got some dirt on your running shoes.

Sure Asians face no discrimination in the nation, none at all... Idiot...

Quote:
(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Yea, I've already seen your despicable

Much less despicable to discriminate. Sheesh, some world you live in.

So let me sum up...

Me telling you at 8am I won't serve you food is, on a scale from 1 to 10, how despicable?

You telling me you will serve me food at 8am with no intention of serving me food, thus not giving me food and wasting my entire morning, on a scale from 1 to 10, how despicable?


Quote:
(03-21-2017 10:50 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  But if you tell them you will, then miss their wedding on purpose, that's a-ok...

That's not at all what I said. What I said is that before the due date, you get back to them that because of such and such, I won't be able to meet the due date anymore.

That give them plenty of time to find a new baker.

Says someone who's obviously never had to look for a baker.

I value honesty and communication. It's the only way a philosophically diverse group of people form a workable, peaceful, and respectful society.

You, obviously, do not.
03-22-2017 09:59 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 09:15 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Not going to get any sense out of you I guess.

Well if we're being honest, you were always just going to dismiss any argument that didn't support the conclusion you favor, anyway.


(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Dictionary: physical injury

And arbitrarily setting the bar at physical injury is arbitrary, and not the law, as you well know.

(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Sure Asians face no discrimination in the nation, none at all...

Please, it's not WWII.

Asians are one of two mainstream white collar races in the this country, along with whites. Well, most ethnicities, with some exceptions. Anyway ...

(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Me telling you at 8am I won't serve you food is, on a scale from 1 to 10, how despicable?

You telling me you will serve me food at 8am with no intention of serving me food, thus not giving me food and wasting my entire morning, on a scale from 1 to 10, how despicable?

First one is illegal, discrimination.

Second one is legal. Simply bad service.

(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I value honesty and communication.

I value when businesses follow the law.
(This post was last modified: 03-22-2017 10:44 AM by MplsBison.)
03-22-2017 10:43 AM
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Bull_Is_Back Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 10:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Dictionary: physical injury

And arbitrarily setting the bar at physical injury is arbitrary, and not the law, as you well know.

I used the dictionary to look up "injury"... I suggest you use it to look up "arbitrary"

Quote:
(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Sure Asians face no discrimination in the nation, none at all...

Please, it's not WWII.

It's also not the jim crow era or the age when the Americans took the native lands... You got a point?

Quote:Asians are one of two mainstream white collar races in the this country, along with whites. Well, most ethnicities, with some exceptions. Anyway ...

I'll have to tell all those refugees at my kids school, who don't speak english very well, that they are all main stream and white-like.

(03-22-2017 09:59 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Me telling you at 8am I won't serve you food is, on a scale from 1 to 10, how despicable?

You telling me you will serve me food at 8am with no intention of serving me food, thus not giving me food and wasting my entire morning, on a scale from 1 to 10, how despicable?

First one is illegal, discrimination.

Second one is legal. Simply bad service.[/quote]

I should not be surprised you're incapable of having an honest conversation about this aspect. It makes you look lie an ass and you are an admitted liar.
03-22-2017 10:57 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 10:57 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I used the dictionary to look up "injury"

Saying that if no injury was caused, then nothing negative has happened, is an arbitrarily set bar, and a ridiculous one at that. As you know.

(03-22-2017 10:57 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I'll have to tell all those refugees at my kids school

From which country?

The US famously adopted many thousands of Korean girls in the 1980's, who largely grew up in white homes and have gone on to lead successful, white collar, white lives.

(03-22-2017 10:57 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I should not be surprised you're incapable of having an honest conversation about this aspect.

"Honest conversation" means I agree with your viewpoint.

If I disagree, I'm dishonest.
03-22-2017 11:13 AM
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Post: #80
RE: Justice Alito: Religious Liberty Is in Danger in America
(03-22-2017 11:13 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  From which country?

Several countries, they are an ethnic group in SE asia, but they are not Hmong.

Quote:The US famously adopted many thousands of Korean girls in the 1980's, who largely grew up in white homes and have gone on to lead successful, white collar, white lives.

And even more of them immigrated in the 70's-80's with their Korean families, Korean customs, Korean language.

And a lot of this kids who were adopted did not settle into a nice white life. A kid down the street from me growing up was adopted off the streets of post war Korea, never felt right, became a klepto, and eventually left the US as an adult to go back to Korea despite the fact he didn't speak the language any more.

Quote:
(03-22-2017 10:57 AM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  I should not be surprised you're incapable of having an honest conversation about this aspect.

"Honest conversation" means I agree with your viewpoint.

If I disagree, I'm dishonest.

No, you said that you would lie to stay out of trouble... That makes you dishonest.
03-22-2017 11:45 AM
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