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Ten years later
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tcountytigerfan Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Ten years later
(03-18-2017 06:16 PM)jgardne Wrote:  [quote='tcountytigerfan' pid='14191220' dateline='1489853386']
Guys, seriously. Our program was plenty dirty under Cal. When you get pulled over for speeding, there's no point in arguing that "everyone else was speeding too". Doesn't make us any less guilty. I hate it, but again, we were guilty. Leave it in the past.

We were not dirty. What allegation was ever proven against us? What kind of a fan are you to just acquiesce to the allegation. Our players graduated except th ones that went pro early or transferred like everybody else. We had some off the court issues which does not make us a dirty program


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03-18-2017 09:05 PM
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Tiger87 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Ten years later
I'm not a Lipman fan by any stretch. There are times I wish we would hang the banner, and fight them all over it.

But there are other times where I step back and think maybe we agreed to take it because we didn't want them digging any deeper.
03-18-2017 09:27 PM
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snowtiger Online
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Post: #43
RE: Ten years later
Why don't we just hang the banner anyway.

No programs are clean. If we had won the championship, we would've had more leverage.
03-18-2017 09:50 PM
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AlonsoWDC Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Ten years later
Nobody thinks of Memphis as 'dirty' under Calipari if Memphis doesn't blow the title game.

Everyone instead just remembers that Kansas got a vacated Final Four.

Lipman had no real hand to play. Strict liability, NCAA more or less created the investigation themselves.
03-19-2017 02:52 AM
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BIGDTiger Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Ten years later
Better yet, look at Louisville right now and their success but everything that their current coach is guilty of. Do you think that a Memphis coach would have ever gotten by with any of this? They would have hammered a Memphis or an SMU for organizing a prostitution ring for players
03-19-2017 12:41 PM
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jgardne Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Ten years later
(03-18-2017 08:15 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 08:11 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 06:34 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 04:36 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 01:34 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  One university's attorney admitted to the NCAA that the school used an ineligible player.

What were they supposed to say. The ETS had already invalidated the test after the fact and the NCAA had retroactively declared him ineligible.

The only argument that could have been made is that the violations was out of the control of the school and school acted in good faith. Same argument that KU made..

How about, "The NCAA clearinghouse determined he was eligible."

You didn't even have to pay me for that.

Irrelevant. As soon as the testing center invalidated the test all other arguments were null and void.

Everything that happened before that means nothing. The invalidation of the test made it a moot point to try and argue.

Rose could easily win a case against testing center but chose to not do it. He was finished and it no longer effected him.

Our lawyer agreed with you completely. You could have argued our case just as well as she did and saved us 50 grand.


Yeah, too bad our lawyer is/was an idiot. This is an ex posto facto change in status. Ex posto facto liability is forbidden by the constitution and one of the bedrocks of our legal system. You can't make alcohol illegal and then convict everybody who ever drink. You can't make it illegal to purchase automatic weapons and then retroactively convict those who did

Our lawyer is apparently not familiar with this basic legal concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law
03-19-2017 07:23 PM
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Unionman76 Online
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Post: #47
RE: Ten years later
(03-19-2017 07:23 PM)jgardne Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 08:15 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 08:11 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 06:34 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 04:36 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  What were they supposed to say. The ETS had already invalidated the test after the fact and the NCAA had retroactively declared him ineligible.

The only argument that could have been made is that the violations was out of the control of the school and school acted in good faith. Same argument that KU made..

How about, "The NCAA clearinghouse determined he was eligible."

You didn't even have to pay me for that.

Irrelevant. As soon as the testing center invalidated the test all other arguments were null and void.

Everything that happened before that means nothing. The invalidation of the test made it a moot point to try and argue.

Rose could easily win a case against testing center but chose to not do it. He was finished and it no longer effected him.

Our lawyer agreed with you completely. You could have argued our case just as well as she did and saved us 50 grand.


Yeah, too bad our lawyer is/was an idiot. This is an ex posto facto change in status. Ex posto facto liability is forbidden by the constitution and one of the bedrocks of our legal system. You can't make alcohol illegal and then convict everybody who ever drink. You can't make it illegal to purchase automatic weapons and then retroactively convict those who did

Our lawyer is apparently not familiar with this basic legal concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

She is a federal judge now
03-19-2017 07:49 PM
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bubbapt Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Ten years later
(03-19-2017 07:49 PM)Unionman76 Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 07:23 PM)jgardne Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 08:15 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 08:11 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  
(03-18-2017 06:34 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  How about, "The NCAA clearinghouse determined he was eligible."

You didn't even have to pay me for that.

Irrelevant. As soon as the testing center invalidated the test all other arguments were null and void.

Everything that happened before that means nothing. The invalidation of the test made it a moot point to try and argue.

Rose could easily win a case against testing center but chose to not do it. He was finished and it no longer effected him.

Our lawyer agreed with you completely. You could have argued our case just as well as she did and saved us 50 grand.


Yeah, too bad our lawyer is/was an idiot. This is an ex posto facto change in status. Ex posto facto liability is forbidden by the constitution and one of the bedrocks of our legal system. You can't make alcohol illegal and then convict everybody who ever drink. You can't make it illegal to purchase automatic weapons and then retroactively convict those who did

Our lawyer is apparently not familiar with this basic legal concept

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law

She is a federal judge now

We should all be afraid... very, very afraid.
03-19-2017 08:08 PM
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Briskbas Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Ten years later
(03-17-2017 11:39 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Next season will be ten years since that fateful game in the finals.

Think it is past time to expose the truth of what went on in that game.

That there was an ineligible player playing in the game but NOT the one that everyone thinks of.

The wrong school was punished by the NCAA and had penalties leveled against it.

Players on both teams were rumored to have grades changed.

One player never had any act of wrong doing proven by the school system.

The other not only had it proven his grades were changed but his high school had to forfeit all the games he played in.

However the one who was cleared was punished by the NCAA while the one who had his ineligibility proven, was given a pass.

Yet to this day the team who did not actually have an ineligible player has been painted as a cheater [program and all records of that season erased. While the team which actually did have an ineligible player got away scott free.

Time to clear the air and get the truth out there.

I hate to tell you this, but Rose was ineligible and Arthur wasn't. That is what actually happened.
03-19-2017 08:14 PM
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bubbapt Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Ten years later
(03-19-2017 08:14 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  
(03-17-2017 11:39 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Next season will be ten years since that fateful game in the finals.

Think it is past time to expose the truth of what went on in that game.

That there was an ineligible player playing in the game but NOT the one that everyone thinks of.

The wrong school was punished by the NCAA and had penalties leveled against it.

Players on both teams were rumored to have grades changed.

One player never had any act of wrong doing proven by the school system.

The other not only had it proven his grades were changed but his high school had to forfeit all the games he played in.

However the one who was cleared was punished by the NCAA while the one who had his ineligibility proven, was given a pass.

Yet to this day the team who did not actually have an ineligible player has been painted as a cheater [program and all records of that season erased. While the team which actually did have an ineligible player got away scott free.

Time to clear the air and get the truth out there.

I hate to tell you this, but Rose was ineligible and Arthur wasn't. That is what actually happened.

The NCAA clearinghouse told Memphis he was eligible.
(This post was last modified: 03-19-2017 08:25 PM by bubbapt.)
03-19-2017 08:24 PM
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holyterror Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Ten years later
(03-19-2017 08:24 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 08:14 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  
(03-17-2017 11:39 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Next season will be ten years since that fateful game in the finals.

Think it is past time to expose the truth of what went on in that game.

That there was an ineligible player playing in the game but NOT the one that everyone thinks of.

The wrong school was punished by the NCAA and had penalties leveled against it.

Players on both teams were rumored to have grades changed.

One player never had any act of wrong doing proven by the school system.

The other not only had it proven his grades were changed but his high school had to forfeit all the games he played in.

However the one who was cleared was punished by the NCAA while the one who had his ineligibility proven, was given a pass.

Yet to this day the team who did not actually have an ineligible player has been painted as a cheater [program and all records of that season erased. While the team which actually did have an ineligible player got away scott free.

Time to clear the air and get the truth out there.

I hate to tell you this, but Rose was ineligible and Arthur wasn't. That is what actually happened.

The NCAA clearinghouse told Memphis he was eligible.

Twice. I guess we weren't supposed to play him just in case.
03-19-2017 08:26 PM
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Briskbas Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Ten years later
(03-19-2017 08:24 PM)bubbapt Wrote:  
(03-19-2017 08:14 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  
(03-17-2017 11:39 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Next season will be ten years since that fateful game in the finals.

Think it is past time to expose the truth of what went on in that game.

That there was an ineligible player playing in the game but NOT the one that everyone thinks of.

The wrong school was punished by the NCAA and had penalties leveled against it.

Players on both teams were rumored to have grades changed.

One player never had any act of wrong doing proven by the school system.

The other not only had it proven his grades were changed but his high school had to forfeit all the games he played in.

However the one who was cleared was punished by the NCAA while the one who had his ineligibility proven, was given a pass.

Yet to this day the team who did not actually have an ineligible player has been painted as a cheater [program and all records of that season erased. While the team which actually did have an ineligible player got away scott free.

Time to clear the air and get the truth out there.

I hate to tell you this, but Rose was ineligible and Arthur wasn't. That is what actually happened.

The NCAA clearinghouse told Memphis he was eligible.

Sure, and then later found he wasn't eligible because the clearinghouse based their decision on an entrance exam that was declared invalid. Rose didn't have a valid entrance exam. He never even fought it being taken away. What that says about him if that was his score is worse than what it says about him if it wasn't.

Arthur, Bledsoe, and Rose were all found (by some entity other than the NCAA) to have their grades changed. The NCAA never took up the issue with any of them (the only time the issue is mentioned by the NCAA in the allegations against Memphis/Rose is in describing how the allegations about Rose's entrance exam got to the ETS). We don't really know for sure why high school transcript changes haven't been enough to get a Notice of Inquiry going, but I would guess that since the transcripts/grades/diploma themselves weren't yanked by the schools/states/issuing entities, that the NCAA doesn't view that as something that creates an immediate loss of eligibility.
03-20-2017 12:08 PM
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80sTiger Offline
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Post: #53
Ten years later
Bledsoe supposedly passed two years of Algebra in one summer session while barely passing high school. I don't doubt the Rose accusations about his SAT, but I don't get how Arthur and Bledsoe skate. Or especially how Calipari skates after leaving multiple schools on probation and is now held up as the pinnacle of college basketball. In the HOF. It's all really really messed up.


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03-20-2017 03:23 PM
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CKMcDan Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Ten years later
(03-19-2017 08:14 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  
(03-17-2017 11:39 PM)ncrdbl1 Wrote:  Next season will be ten years since that fateful game in the finals.

Think it is past time to expose the truth of what went on in that game.

That there was an ineligible player playing in the game but NOT the one that everyone thinks of.

The wrong school was punished by the NCAA and had penalties leveled against it.

Players on both teams were rumored to have grades changed.

One player never had any act of wrong doing proven by the school system.

The other not only had it proven his grades were changed but his high school had to forfeit all the games he played in.

However the one who was cleared was punished by the NCAA while the one who had his ineligibility proven, was given a pass.

Yet to this day the team who did not actually have an ineligible player has been painted as a cheater [program and all records of that season erased. While the team which actually did have an ineligible player got away scott free.

Time to clear the air and get the truth out there.

I hate to tell you this, but Rose was ineligible and Arthur wasn't. That is what actually happened.

Yep. The term "strict liability" has everything to do with whether or not the athletes met the minimum requirements (ACT score & High School GPA) for participation, not how they obtained those minimum requirements.

Once the ETS invalidated Rose's passing ACT, he did not meet the NCAA's minimum eligibility requirements. His other ACT scores were not high enough.

Despite all the issues surrounding the grades that Arthur earned at his high school, that school system gave him the grades he needed to pass.
03-20-2017 04:27 PM
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HoopDreams Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Ten years later
(03-20-2017 04:27 PM)CKMcDan Wrote:  Yep. The term "strict liability" has everything to do with whether or not the athletes met the minimum requirements (ACT score & High School GPA) for participation, not how they obtained those minimum requirements.

Once the ETS invalidated Rose's passing ACT, he did not meet the NCAA's minimum eligibility requirements. His other ACT scores were not high enough.

Despite all the issues surrounding the grades that Arthur earned at his high school, that school system gave him the grades he needed to pass.

Yes and no.

To the letter of the NCAA law, one was ineligible and the other wasn't.

But most know how it really goes.

And Rose was cleared by the clearinghouse TWICE. The ETS invalidated his score halfway through the season.

It was real greaseball shtt, but whatever at this point.

If Derrick Rose was starting for North Carolina against Darrell Arthur and Kansas, no one would've ever gotten in trouble.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2017 04:32 PM by HoopDreams.)
03-20-2017 04:31 PM
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tmoneyinmphs Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Ten years later
(03-20-2017 03:23 PM)80sTiger Wrote:  Bledsoe supposedly passed two years of Algebra in one summer session while barely passing high school. I don't doubt the Rose accusations about his SAT, but I don't get how Arthur and Bledsoe skate. Or especially how Calipari skates after leaving multiple schools on probation and is now held up as the pinnacle of college basketball. In the HOF. It's all really really messed up.


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The ncaa has taken it to new lows these days, that's for sure. The lowest was penn state not getting the death penalty, imo. The ncaa can't go any lower than that in my eyes.

How about how florida state, usc and ohio state all cheating for nearly a decade and winning championships and all of it was unchecked by the ncaa even when evidence was presented.

Scam newton. Enough said on that one.

How about the relationship between john wall and brian clifton?

I could go on and on. I don't even keep up with it anymore, because i tune all of it out now. Why waste my time watching that crap led by a corrupt organization? Why should i watch all the schools from big conferences win in the postseason? How many of their fans keep up or care about us?

These days i get my bball and fball fix through tiger athletics only. I might watch a future opponent just before we play them. That's about it for me.
(This post was last modified: 03-20-2017 04:53 PM by tmoneyinmphs.)
03-20-2017 04:49 PM
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