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AdoptedMonarch Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-07-2017 06:20 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote:  so multiple municipalities would have maybe been in play if Vb had fallen Through? I know this is speculation and it based on ga t, but the deal couldnt be but so risky if the common train of thought was other cities would have been on board.

I am so dumbfounded by the nay Sayers in this case.

You appear to have a much better functioning crystal ball than I do. I sure hope so.

If you are right, our region will gain a truly beautiful arena. We will expand vastly the calibre of sports entertainment that we can host, and (who knows?) there may even be a major league franchise that this facility its home. The Virginia Beach council members will all justifiably be claiming credit.

But, if your crystal ball turns out to be fallible, the Virginia Beach taxpayers will be on the hook for $78 million in infrastructure upgrades. What events that do come to town will be plagued by traffic jams (as is the amphitheater currently). The Birdneck neighborhood will be badly disrupted. The beautiful arena will only be held used -- as is now the case for Norfolk's Half Moone cruise ship facility. And the Virginia Beach council members who voted to support it will be no where to be found.

I don't claim to have any special insight on this project. And I'll admit that I am wrong at least as often as I am right.

But I'm not sure why you are so certain that the concerns of the "naysayers" are so completely unfounded.
05-07-2017 06:51 PM
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Monarchblue Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-07-2017 06:51 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 06:20 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote:  so multiple municipalities would have maybe been in play if Vb had fallen Through? I know this is speculation and it based on ga t, but the deal couldnt be but so risky if the common train of thought was other cities would have been on board.

I am so dumbfounded by the nay Sayers in this case.

You appear to have a much better functioning crystal ball than I do. I sure hope so.

If you are right, our region will gain a truly beautiful arena. We will expand vastly the calibre of sports entertainment that we can host, and (who knows?) there may even be a major league franchise that this facility its home. The Virginia Beach council members will all justifiably be claiming credit.

But, if your crystal ball turns out to be fallible, the Virginia Beach taxpayers will be on the hook for $78 million in infrastructure upgrades. What events that do come to town will be plagued by traffic jams (as is the amphitheater currently). The Birdneck neighborhood will be badly disrupted. The beautiful arena will only be held used -- as is now the case for Norfolk's Half Moone cruise ship facility. And the Virginia Beach council members who voted to support it will be no where to be found.

I don't claim to have any special insight on this project. And I'll admit that I am wrong at least as often as I am right.

But I'm not sure why you are so certain that the concerns of the "naysayers" are so completely unfounded.
And if VA Beach is right, they will have reinvigorated one of the worst corridors in VA Beach, added much needed infrastructure and parking improvements, and added one more showpiece to help lure new business and keep winning "best places to live" awards.

Also, there seem to be some pretty big misconceptions about the location. I was stated much earlier in this process that VB gave the developer of Ocean Front or Town Center, and the developer chose the Ocean Front. The developer also could have presented it's plan to Chesapeake or Norfolk just as easily if they thought those locations were better.

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05-07-2017 07:58 PM
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Post: #43
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-07-2017 09:11 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Champagne tastes on a beer budget. This area is notorious for having big ideas and then fatally underfunding. Due in large part to the go it alone philosophy. The Tide is case in point. A huge expense, it was underfunded and basically goes nowhere. Thus the opponents have a self fulfilling prophecy, "see we told you wouldn't work".Va. Beach's' failure to get on board is a classic example of how to kill a great idea, or at least make it significantly less than it should be.
It seems city leaders and residents want something good, then chicken out half way thru because of the expense. Until we can agree to work together as a region, sharing the huge expense of doing it right, we'll always have these ill conceived, underfunded attempts at looking vibrant.
The Tide failed because the starter line went nowhere and nobody needs to use it in their daily routine. It doesn't get anyone where they live and work. The people working downtown don't live where It goes and the people that live where It goes don't work downtown. It was a bad idea from the beginning. If the starter line went through Ghent and ODU, it would have been a success. It wasn't underfunded, it was built by Norfolk and instead of Norfolk making its own success, they hedged their success on VB, another entity, to fund its extension. So dumb and incompetent someone should be hanging by their balls at Norfolk city hall.

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(This post was last modified: 05-07-2017 08:30 PM by EverRespect.)
05-07-2017 08:27 PM
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Gilesfan Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
There is no doubt that the Military Circle location would be better but it comes down to working with a city and having a city incentivize you.

Im excited to have if though and hope if works out.
05-07-2017 08:56 PM
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Old Dominion Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-07-2017 08:27 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Champagne tastes on a beer budget. This area is notorious for having big ideas and then fatally underfunding. Due in large part to the go it alone philosophy. The Tide is case in point. A huge expense, it was underfunded and basically goes nowhere. Thus the opponents have a self fulfilling prophecy, "see we told you wouldn't work".Va. Beach's' failure to get on board is a classic example of how to kill a great idea, or at least make it significantly less than it should be.
It seems city leaders and residents want something good, then chicken out half way thru because of the expense. Until we can agree to work together as a region, sharing the huge expense of doing it right, we'll always have these ill conceived, underfunded attempts at looking vibrant.
The Tide failed because the starter line went nowhere and nobody needs to use it in their daily routine. It doesn't get anyone where they live and work. The people working downtown don't live where It goes and the people that live where It goes don't work downtown. It was a bad idea from the beginning. If the starter line went through Ghent and ODU, it would have been a success. It wasn't underfunded, it was built by Norfolk and instead of Norfolk making its own success, they hedged their success on VB, another entity, to fund its extension. So dumb and incompetent someone should be hanging by their balls at Norfolk city hall.

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When I said underfunded I was thinking to the extent that it didn't go anywhere, as you mentioned. If they had come up with the money to run it to ODU and on to Ghent and the navy base, it would have worked.
05-08-2017 06:07 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 06:07 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:27 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Champagne tastes on a beer budget. This area is notorious for having big ideas and then fatally underfunding. Due in large part to the go it alone philosophy. The Tide is case in point. A huge expense, it was underfunded and basically goes nowhere. Thus the opponents have a self fulfilling prophecy, "see we told you wouldn't work".Va. Beach's' failure to get on board is a classic example of how to kill a great idea, or at least make it significantly less than it should be.
It seems city leaders and residents want something good, then chicken out half way thru because of the expense. Until we can agree to work together as a region, sharing the huge expense of doing it right, we'll always have these ill conceived, underfunded attempts at looking vibrant.
The Tide failed because the starter line went nowhere and nobody needs to use it in their daily routine. It doesn't get anyone where they live and work. The people working downtown don't live where It goes and the people that live where It goes don't work downtown. It was a bad idea from the beginning. If the starter line went through Ghent and ODU, it would have been a success. It wasn't underfunded, it was built by Norfolk and instead of Norfolk making its own success, they hedged their success on VB, another entity, to fund its extension. So dumb and incompetent someone should be hanging by their balls at Norfolk city hall.

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When I said underfunded I was thinking to the extent that it didn't go anywhere, as you mentioned. If they had come up with the money to run it to ODU and on to Ghent and the navy base, it would have worked.

Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.
05-08-2017 07:19 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 06:07 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 08:27 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 09:11 AM)Old Dominion Wrote:  Champagne tastes on a beer budget. This area is notorious for having big ideas and then fatally underfunding. Due in large part to the go it alone philosophy. The Tide is case in point. A huge expense, it was underfunded and basically goes nowhere. Thus the opponents have a self fulfilling prophecy, "see we told you wouldn't work".Va. Beach's' failure to get on board is a classic example of how to kill a great idea, or at least make it significantly less than it should be.
It seems city leaders and residents want something good, then chicken out half way thru because of the expense. Until we can agree to work together as a region, sharing the huge expense of doing it right, we'll always have these ill conceived, underfunded attempts at looking vibrant.
The Tide failed because the starter line went nowhere and nobody needs to use it in their daily routine. It doesn't get anyone where they live and work. The people working downtown don't live where It goes and the people that live where It goes don't work downtown. It was a bad idea from the beginning. If the starter line went through Ghent and ODU, it would have been a success. It wasn't underfunded, it was built by Norfolk and instead of Norfolk making its own success, they hedged their success on VB, another entity, to fund its extension. So dumb and incompetent someone should be hanging by their balls at Norfolk city hall.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

When I said underfunded I was thinking to the extent that it didn't go anywhere, as you mentioned. If they had come up with the money to run it to ODU and on to Ghent and the navy base, it would have worked.

Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.
05-08-2017 07:30 AM
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BigBlue23 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-07-2017 06:51 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  
(05-07-2017 06:20 PM)BigBlue23 Wrote:  so multiple municipalities would have maybe been in play if Vb had fallen Through? I know this is speculation and it based on ga t, but the deal couldnt be but so risky if the common train of thought was other cities would have been on board.

I am so dumbfounded by the nay Sayers in this case.

You appear to have a much better functioning crystal ball than I do. I sure hope so.

If you are right, our region will gain a truly beautiful arena. We will expand vastly the calibre of sports entertainment that we can host, and (who knows?) there may even be a major league franchise that this facility its home. The Virginia Beach council members will all justifiably be claiming credit.

But, if your crystal ball turns out to be fallible, the Virginia Beach taxpayers will be on the hook for $78 million in infrastructure upgrades. What events that do come to town will be plagued by traffic jams (as is the amphitheater currently). The Birdneck neighborhood will be badly disrupted. The beautiful arena will only be held used -- as is now the case for Norfolk's Half Moone cruise ship facility. And the Virginia Beach council members who voted to support it will be no where to be found.

I don't claim to have any special insight on this project. And I'll admit that I am wrong at least as often as I am right.

But I'm not sure why you are so certain that the concerns of the "naysayers" are so completely unfounded.

The amphitheater is "plagued" by traffic? it is like any other major event. Traffic is heavier than normal days, but "plagued" might be an exaggeration. It takes 15-30 minutes to get into the amphitheater and 30-60 to get out. That is the price of having national acts in your backyard.

I have been to DC often for sporting events and the metro is packed and usually takes multiple cars before we can get on. Again...simply the price of poker.

You metioned the residences being on the hook up the infrastructure upgrades. Someone has to pay. That is what the nay sayers fail to realize. Someone has to pay for EVERYTHING. Nothing comes free. If the arena succeeds, it allows for new money to be invested back into the city.

If the arena is a failure like the Half Moon, then I would say it was worth the investment. is Half Moon underutilized? Of course. is it a drain on the citizens of Norfolk? Heck no.

And for the record...I had no isnight as to other cities involvement. Bit9 alluded to the idea of Military Circle being an alternative if VB had fallen through. Just connecting dots. No inside information of special crystal ball.
05-08-2017 08:13 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 09:04 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
05-08-2017 09:02 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

And if it ever gets fleshed out VB will be clamoring to get on board. The biggest issue with the Tide is it goes nowhere and the new tunnels weren't even built with the option of adding tracks. If there were a spur to the oceanfront through town center, a spur to Churchland, one to Greenbriar, a spur through Ghent/ODU to the base and then one from the base to the airport back to Town center it would be great. The starter line, if extended to Town Center on one end and ODU/Base on the other would be a success creating a popular demand for the other expansions. Town Center, rather than Downtown would be the hub too. VB blew it, can't blame Norfolk for trying. They went out on a limb to start something great for the whole region. You can lead a horse to water, but they voted not to drink.
05-08-2017 09:21 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

Right... so where will they get the money? If it goes West side, which is the only way it has a snowball's chance of being a success, we are talking billions in infrastructure, bridges, etc. If it goes East side, it still needs the right of way and rail and it ultimately becomes just a longer train to nowhere. On top of that, the federal government is tightening up.

The starter line already had the right of way and rail, the federal government was givving money away like candy for schit like this, and they weren't already operating in the red.

It isn't going to be as easy this time asking governments and tax payers to shell out a lot more good money after bad.
05-08-2017 09:38 AM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
The city lost a ton of money by not going with LR. They have to pay back the millions of dollars they got to do the study and the taxes they already had incurred a year+ ago paid for it. Oh well ... maybe if we wait long enough we can just use boats. =]
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 09:39 AM by bit_9.)
05-08-2017 09:39 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:38 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

Right... so where will they get the money? If it goes West side, which is the only way it has a snowball's chance of being a success, we are talking billions in infrastructure, bridges, etc. If it goes East side, it still needs the right of way and rail and it ultimately becomes just a longer train to nowhere. On top of that, the federal government is tightening up.

The starter line already had the right of way and rail, the federal government was givving money away like candy for schit like this, and they weren't already operating in the red.

It isn't going to be as easy this time asking governments and tax payers to shell out a lot more good money after bad.

It'll depend on if Trump really cuts the FTA grant program or not. Infrastructure investment is one of the many things he's promised, so that would be an odd move.
(This post was last modified: 05-08-2017 09:44 AM by ODUDrunkard13.)
05-08-2017 09:44 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:21 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

And if it ever gets fleshed out VB will be clamoring to get on board. The biggest issue with the Tide is it goes nowhere and the new tunnels weren't even built with the option of adding tracks. If there were a spur to the oceanfront through town center, a spur to Churchland, one to Greenbriar, a spur through Ghent/ODU to the base and then one from the base to the airport back to Town center it would be great. The starter line, if extended to Town Center on one end and ODU/Base on the other would be a success creating a popular demand for the other expansions. Town Center, rather than Downtown would be the hub too. VB blew it, can't blame Norfolk for trying. They went out on a limb to start something great for the whole region. You can lead a horse to water, but they voted not to drink.

How the heck did VB "blow" it? It wasn't their project and it wasn't their idea. This is 100% Norfolk's fault. They should have had the thing go up Hampton Blvd to begin with, but instead they hedged on another city ultimately bailing them out.

To say VB blew it would be like me buying a house in the ghetto and spending $200k to make it beautiful then blaming my house flipping peers when it doesn't sell because they didn't buy and fix the other houses on the street, even though they told me they liked the idea. My house flipping peers didn't waste the $200k fixing up the house. They didn't blow it, I did.

The level of incompetence at Norfolk City Hall is absolutely astounding.
05-08-2017 09:49 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:44 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:38 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

Right... so where will they get the money? If it goes West side, which is the only way it has a snowball's chance of being a success, we are talking billions in infrastructure, bridges, etc. If it goes East side, it still needs the right of way and rail and it ultimately becomes just a longer train to nowhere. On top of that, the federal government is tightening up.

The starter line already had the right of way and rail, the federal government was givving money away like candy for schit like this, and they weren't already operating in the red.

It isn't going to be as easy this time asking governments and tax payers to shell out a lot more good money after bad.

It'll depend on if Trump really cuts the FTA grant program or not. Infrastructure investment is one of the many things he's promised, so that would be an odd move.

He has spoken a lot about infrastructure, bridges, highways, and even a little on high speed rail. I have not heard where he has promised anything with regards to public transportation that is completely local by its nature.
05-08-2017 09:53 AM
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bit_9 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
Wouldn't public transportation fall under those areas? Or did you mean mass public transportation to be specific?
05-08-2017 09:57 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:53 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  He has spoken a lot about infrastructure, bridges, highways, and even a little on high speed rail. I have not heard where he has promised anything with regards to public transportation that is completely local by its nature.

How many of the projects in the running for FTA's commuter rail grants or the capital investment grants (which go through 2020) aren't local in nature? That's rhetorical, by the way.
05-08-2017 11:00 AM
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EverRespect Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 11:00 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:53 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  He has spoken a lot about infrastructure, bridges, highways, and even a little on high speed rail. I have not heard where he has promised anything with regards to public transportation that is completely local by its nature.

How many of the projects in the running for FTA's commuter rail grants or the capital investment grants (which go through 2020) aren't local in nature? That's rhetorical, by the way.
I don't know to be honest. I know one connects Dallas and Houston... Not really local. I wouldn't suspect a 5 mile low capacity line within Norfolk that really is not needed and is more of a "nice to have" would be a priority in this administration, though I could be wrong.

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05-08-2017 11:04 AM
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monarx Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 09:49 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:21 AM)monarx Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:02 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:30 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 07:19 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  Yall realize they are studying the extension to the base right now? It will go to the base. The only question is whether it goes through Ghent and ODU or up military to the airport and to the base. It will get extended and Norfolk will start the next spur after that is completed.

They've been studying it for 20 years. It isn't happening. They lost the public with the way it started, they have no money, and none of the other cities and counties that feed HRT want anything to do with subsidizing it. They blew it.

They studied it before the first leg was built than they built it. Then they studied a variety of routes and selected their top choice, the east side extension. Last year they completed the study on that extension. The FTA said they need to look at the westside as a second option. They're completing that now. Once that is done, theyll present it to the FTA and they'll select the preferred route and put it out for design and build.

Nothing is blown. A very slow process will just take longer to get to a fuller fleshed out system without VB involved.

And if it ever gets fleshed out VB will be clamoring to get on board. The biggest issue with the Tide is it goes nowhere and the new tunnels weren't even built with the option of adding tracks. If there were a spur to the oceanfront through town center, a spur to Churchland, one to Greenbriar, a spur through Ghent/ODU to the base and then one from the base to the airport back to Town center it would be great. The starter line, if extended to Town Center on one end and ODU/Base on the other would be a success creating a popular demand for the other expansions. Town Center, rather than Downtown would be the hub too. VB blew it, can't blame Norfolk for trying. They went out on a limb to start something great for the whole region. You can lead a horse to water, but they voted not to drink.

How the heck did VB "blow" it? It wasn't their project and it wasn't their idea. This is 100% Norfolk's fault. They should have had the thing go up Hampton Blvd to begin with, but instead they hedged on another city ultimately bailing them out.

To say VB blew it would be like me buying a house in the ghetto and spending $200k to make it beautiful then blaming my house flipping peers when it doesn't sell because they didn't buy and fix the other houses on the street, even though they told me they liked the idea. My house flipping peers didn't waste the $200k fixing up the house. They didn't blow it, I did.

The level of incompetence at Norfolk City Hall is absolutely astounding.

Its a decent analogy. If your neighbors stepped up and had followed your lead and improved their property as well, everyone would have been much better off. You did your part and took the lead. Your neighbor (in this case VB) didnt improve their property so everyone loses.
05-08-2017 11:04 AM
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ODUDrunkard13 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Virginia Beach arena update
(05-08-2017 11:04 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 11:00 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  
(05-08-2017 09:53 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  He has spoken a lot about infrastructure, bridges, highways, and even a little on high speed rail. I have not heard where he has promised anything with regards to public transportation that is completely local by its nature.

How many of the projects in the running for FTA's commuter rail grants or the capital investment grants (which go through 2020) aren't local in nature? That's rhetorical, by the way.
I don't know to be honest. I know one connects Dallas and Houston... Not really local. I wouldn't suspect a 5 mile low capacity line within Norfolk that really is not needed and is more of a "nice to have" would be a priority in this administration, though I could be wrong.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

The answer is most. Most are local. Below is a list of the current Capital Investment Grant projects. If you follow the link, you will see multiple streetcar projects and multiple light rail projects;
https://www.transit.dot.gov/funding/gran...g-projects
05-08-2017 11:15 AM
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