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Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
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BullsFanInTX Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 03:06 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:06 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  The term power six doesn't exist. Anywhere. The term power 5 only exists because of the CFP. No one has ever used the term power 6 (other than the AAC who is trying to be one in football).
"Man, if only there was an online tool that could search for occurrences of phrases online, so such a claim could be tested."

A quick google search immediately brings up: "College Basketball: Ranking the Power 6 Conferences", 9 January, 2013.

You;re really relying on a bleacher report "article" from January 2013 to support your argument? LOL. I guess I should have clarified any serious news source. I could write an article and post it online somewhere talking about the Power 8 leagues, but that doesn't mean it's legit.
03-14-2017 10:30 PM
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SouthEastAlaska Offline
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Post: #82
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 02:00 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Here's another theory as to why the mid-major is down:

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...tournament

Well this rule can work both ways. For example, Nigel Williams Goss transferred from UW to Gonzaga and is now one of the best players on one of the best team's in the country.

So although I do tend to agree that the rule is not the best (It does bring a free agent feel), I think it works for the best schools not just P6 schools.

If your school is Wichita state, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, etc. I think you can lure away talent from the bottom of the P's, the same way schools like Kentucky and Kansas can do it to many of the mid-majors. Just a thought 04-cheers
03-14-2017 10:44 PM
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johnbragg Offline
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Post: #83
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 10:44 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 02:00 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Here's another theory as to why the mid-major is down:

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...tournament

Well this rule can work both ways. For example, Nigel Williams Goss transferred from UW to Gonzaga and is now one of the best players on one of the best team's in the country.

So although I do tend to agree that the rule is not the best (It does bring a free agent feel), I think it works for the best schools not just P6 schools.

If your school is Wichita state, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, etc. I think you can lure away talent from the bottom of the P's, the same way schools like Kentucky and Kansas can do it to many of the mid-majors. Just a thought 04-cheers

Yes, for Wichita State, VCU, Dayton, Gonzaga, UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple which are major programs in midmajor leagues. But not for Rhode Island, Illinois State or St Mary's, or Tulsa, Houston or UCF. Player free agency pretty much locks the existing power balance in place.
03-14-2017 11:05 PM
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BruceMcF Offline
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Post: #84
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 10:30 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 03:06 AM)BruceMcF Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:06 PM)BullsFanInTX Wrote:  The term power six doesn't exist. Anywhere. The term power 5 only exists because of the CFP. No one has ever used the term power 6 (other than the AAC who is trying to be one in football).
"Man, if only there was an online tool that could search for occurrences of phrases online, so such a claim could be tested."

A quick google search immediately brings up: "College Basketball: Ranking the Power 6 Conferences", 9 January, 2013.

You're really relying on a bleacher report "article" from January 2013 to support your argument?
For a claim as absurdly broad and sweeping as "no one has ever used the term power 6" ... sure, why not use the first search result that disproves it? Why bother looking further, when the person who made the claim obviously did not lift a finger to check whether or not they were spouting nonsense?

As far as, "Oh, I didn't mean what I said, I meant what I meant, which is different" ... whatever. My mind-reading equipment is broken, I gotta go by what you say.
03-15-2017 12:01 AM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #85
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 09:37 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 04:34 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 02:11 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 02:00 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Here's another theory as to why the mid-major is down:

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...tournament

what a ****** up rule that allows guys that graduate to transfer without sitting out. They aren't going for their education. They're going for 1 and only 1 reason. Basketball. Pathetic.

They need a rule ASAP that if you transfer even as a graduate you must sit out a year. PERIOD. It'll nip this problem right away.


that would help. Both football and basketball

That would only help coaches and schools at the expense of athletes. As if college athletics isn't already rigged enough in favor of coaches and schools and against athletes.

Let me know when coaches and athletic directors have to sit out a year when moving from one college to another. I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

All other transfers have to sit out a year.
03-15-2017 02:20 AM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #86
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 08:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 04:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  "SMU with Larry Brown might be the new Steve Fisher SDSU" - the guy who yesterday said the WCC was even or ahead of the AAC. 03-lmfao

Oops. Deserved ridicule. I guess the AAC is too invisible these days for somebody in the west to notice that.

I stand on the WCC being better positioned now and going forward than the AAC. This has much to do with their regional built in advantage that would take some explaining. It results in them having more visibility on the Pacific coast than the other mid-majors conferences including the MWC. It also gives them an edge in recruiting the bench depth quality (Catholic HS leagues, which are also the provider of the bulk of their student body). Coaches still have to recruit the top talent to be anything - and most can't. Anyway that local advantage (being private and faith based of the higher admission standards) provides a resilience lacking in the public schools, and is why they have not declined. (Perhaps I should say they have passed most leagues by not declining, that is the miracle of attrition, as opposed to improving.)

What a joke, the WCC has 3 great/good programs then a sharp dropoff. Once Randy Bennett leaves or retires, what's stopping St. Mary's from resembling Mount St. Mary's again? The same can almost be asked of Gonzaga and Few, though they have better standing and foundation. If BYU leaves to a bigger conference, the WCC could go back to being a 1-bid league that produces a double digit seed each year.

Meanwhile, the AAC produces 2 bids in a down year. A down year. There are teams in the AAC with national titles within the last few years and multiple NCAA Tournament appearances since the turn of the century.
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 03:14 PM by _C2_.)
03-15-2017 02:27 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #87
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
It has less to do with transfers than it does favorable metrics for P5 schools. RPI needs to be revamped. There's nothing logical about 75% of it depending on things outside of your control. For a 15 team conference like the ACC it ends up being a self fulfilling prophecy of sorts. It's absurd.
03-15-2017 08:14 AM
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The Cutter of Bish Offline
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Post: #88
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 10:07 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  The Bucknell thing is a great point. 8/9 game in 2006. Where would they be today?

It's tough, because while some think Wichita was underseeded, they were still better than MTSU, and MTSU has a better resume. I think Bucknell had one closer to MTSU than Wichita comparatively. They beat a tournament-bound Syracuse team and a NIT-bound St. Joe's squad, but fell short against Duke, Villanova, and Northern Iowa (I miss the Bracket Busters series).

Probably a 12-seed?

I think their win against Kansas demonstrated they were underseeded that year, but how do you make that call? There were good wins in there, and a lot of bad wins, too. Good losses and some bad ones. However, I doubt anyone really had their kind of resume at the 14-line. They probably were more a 13 that year. That team this year? 14 or 15. They certainly would have kept their opponent(s) honest.
03-15-2017 09:10 AM
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CliftonAve Online
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Post: #89
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 08:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 04:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  "SMU with Larry Brown might be the new Steve Fisher SDSU" - the guy who yesterday said the WCC was even or ahead of the AAC. 03-lmfao

Oops. Deserved ridicule. I guess the AAC is too invisible these days for somebody in the west to notice that.

I stand on the WCC being better positioned now and going forward than the AAC. This has much to do with their regional built in advantage that would take some explaining. It results in them having more visibility on the Pacific coast than the other mid-majors conferences including the MWC. It also gives them an edge in recruiting the bench depth quality (Catholic HS leagues, which are also the provider of the bulk of their student body). Coaches still have to recruit the top talent to be anything - and most can't. Anyway that local advantage (being private and faith based of the higher admission standards) provides a resilience lacking in the public schools, and is why they have not declined. (Perhaps I should say they have passed most leagues by not declining, that is the miracle of attrition, as opposed to improving.)

Most people East of the Rockies (where all the population is) could not tell you the WCC even exists.

Why does a guy who roots for SJSU (San Jose-- MWC) and tOSU (Ohio State is tOSU but given your western proclivity are you a Beavers fan?) even care to indulge in some fantasy that the WCC is greater than the AAC?
(This post was last modified: 03-15-2017 09:20 AM by CliftonAve.)
03-15-2017 09:20 AM
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BigHouston Offline
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Post: #90
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-15-2017 09:20 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 08:55 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 04:26 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  "SMU with Larry Brown might be the new Steve Fisher SDSU" - the guy who yesterday said the WCC was even or ahead of the AAC. 03-lmfao

Oops. Deserved ridicule. I guess the AAC is too invisible these days for somebody in the west to notice that.

I stand on the WCC being better positioned now and going forward than the AAC. This has much to do with their regional built in advantage that would take some explaining. It results in them having more visibility on the Pacific coast than the other mid-majors conferences including the MWC. It also gives them an edge in recruiting the bench depth quality (Catholic HS leagues, which are also the provider of the bulk of their student body). Coaches still have to recruit the top talent to be anything - and most can't. Anyway that local advantage (being private and faith based of the higher admission standards) provides a resilience lacking in the public schools, and is why they have not declined. (Perhaps I should say they have passed most leagues by not declining, that is the miracle of attrition, as opposed to improving.)

Most people East of the Rockies (where all the population is) could not tell you the WCC even exists.

Why does a guy who roots for SJSU (San Jose-- MWC) and tOSU (Ohio State is tOSU but given your western proclivity are you a Beavers fan?) even care to indulge in some fantasy that the WCC is greater than the AAC?

Some just feel the need to jab the AAC for no reason other than the real reasons AAC's equity growth is steadily improving and they hate it.
03-15-2017 02:26 PM
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SouthEastAlaska Offline
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Post: #91
RE: Decline of Mid-Major At-Large Tournament Appearances
(03-14-2017 11:05 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 10:44 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 02:00 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Here's another theory as to why the mid-major is down:

http://www.si.com/college-basketball/201...tournament

Well this rule can work both ways. For example, Nigel Williams Goss transferred from UW to Gonzaga and is now one of the best players on one of the best team's in the country.

So although I do tend to agree that the rule is not the best (It does bring a free agent feel), I think it works for the best schools not just P6 schools.

If your school is Wichita state, Cincinnati, Gonzaga, etc. I think you can lure away talent from the bottom of the P's, the same way schools like Kentucky and Kansas can do it to many of the mid-majors. Just a thought 04-cheers

Yes, for Wichita State, VCU, Dayton, Gonzaga, UConn, Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple which are major programs in midmajor leagues. But not for Rhode Island, Illinois State or St Mary's, or Tulsa, Houston or UCF. Player free agency pretty much locks the existing power balance in place.

Yes, you are absolutely correct. And we could say that there is a list of disadvantaged P programs as well, Northwestern, Penn state, South Carolina, Oregon St, etc.

IMO the issue with mid major programs not getting at large bids is a lack of national exposure and the media machines general love fest with P5/6 schools.
03-15-2017 08:29 PM
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