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What A Difference the Newbies Make
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jaminandjachin Offline
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What A Difference the Newbies Make
There's always conversation around the ACC expanding with Big East teams and how much of a difference it makes, was it worth it, blah blah blah.

It's NCAA tournament time and I present you exhibit A:

Between 2006 and 2014 (9 NCAA Tournaments), the ACC had 7 teams reach the Elite Eight (UNC x5, Duke x2)

Just the last two years, 2015 and 2016, the ACC had 7 teams reach the Elite Eight (UNC, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Virginia, Notre Dame x2). So 4 of the 7 can be attributed to the newbies. Syracuse became the first non UNC/Duke team to make the Final Four from the ACC since Georgia Tech in 2004. I'd say the difference of the additions is significant.
03-13-2017 03:49 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
last year, Cuse beat Dayton, Middle Tenn State, and Gonzaga prior to a nice comeback win against UVA to make the final 4, where they got crushed by UNC.

i'm not sure if this final 4 run is much to get excited about. that was an easy slate of games for a seed that low.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:01 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:00 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:00 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  last year, Cuse beat Dayton, Middle Tenn State, and Gonzaga prior to a nice comeback win against UVA to make the final 4, where they got crushed by UNC.

i'm not sure if this final 4 run is much to get excited about. that was an easy slate of games for a seed that low.

Clemson was in the Final 4 when?
03-13-2017 04:03 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
i think CLemson could have made final 4 last year against those 4 teams. so could many teams. btw, CLemson beat Cuse at Cuse last year. lol

they prob shouldn't have made tournament last year so the fact they won 4 speaks to the fact they weren't in a tough bracket. they wren't even competitive against UNC.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:06 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:04 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:04 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i think CLemson could have made final 4 last year against those 4 teams. so could many teams.

they prob shouldn't have made tournament last year so the fact they won 4 speaks to the fact they weren't in a tough bracket.

They beat a #1 seed to make the Final 4. Argument over.

Besides, Clemson can't even make the tourney period and you're complaining about the teams Cuse beat to make the Final 4. smh....
03-13-2017 04:06 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
UVA was overrated, they struggled to score at times.

my point is it is silly to gush over Cuse making the Final 4 last year if you look at who they played.

why is a UNC fan white knighting for Cuse.

i'm not complaining about Cuse, I'm simply disagreeing with you that is means a lot that they made the Final 4. their overall record was nothing to brag about.

btw, how many titles in football has UNC won? I can do random bragging as well.

how many titles would UNC have in bball if not for the academic cheating to keep players eligible?
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:12 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:07 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:07 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  UVA was overrated, they struggled to score at times.

my point is it is silly to gush over Cuse making the Final 4 last year if you look at who they played.

You have no point. They made the Final 4. Upsets happen. In the entire history of the tournament, only once has all for #1 seeds made the Final Four. As for UVA being overrated, I remember them being the 2nd seed in the conference tournament and almost beat us in the final. AP #4 team in the country.
03-13-2017 04:12 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
i understand upsets happen but still doesn't make beating those 4 teams super impressive and then they got blown out by UNC

it doesn't make much sense to argue the ACC is better now partly b/c of a team that got lucky to be in the tournament and then won 3 games against non-P5 programs, squeaked out a win against UVA, to make the final 4.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:16 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:13 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:13 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  i understand upsets happen but still doesn't make beating those 4 teams super impressive and then they got blown out by UNC.

Blowouts happen or did you not see Villanova beat Oklahoma by 40 in the Final Four last year.............
03-13-2017 04:14 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
ok, no need to continue discussing it. reason I posted in somebody had said on another topic that Cuse making the final 4 last year was more impressiive than winning the ACC tournament. I think what Duke did this week is far more impressive than Cuse last year.

Clemson did make an elite 8 in the late 90s sometime, lost to Bobby Jackson's Minnesota team.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:18 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:17 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:17 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  ok, no need to continue discussing it.

Clemson did make an elite 8 in the late 90s sometime, lost to Bobby Jackson's Minnesota team.

That was 1997 and it was the Sweet 16. Regardless, still not the Final Four. You can complain about Cuse in football, but basketball, you need to take a step back.
03-13-2017 04:19 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
I'm not complaining about Cuse football or basketball. and I have no problem with Cuse losing in football.

I just don't think a team that probably shouldn't have made the tourney last year making the final 4 after playing 3 non-P5 programs is that impressive. they lost to most of the good teams they played last year.

i would say overall the former big east programs have declined since entering the ACC. ND has been better.

i think the former big east teams would be better off from basketball recruiting standpoint if they stayed in big east. that's basically what the Cuse coach thinks given his comments about Gboro and NYC.

looks like ACC is verge of Civil War. lol Secession looms.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:39 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:25 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:25 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  I'm not complaining about Cuse football or basketball. and I have no problem with Cuse losing in football.

I just don't think a team that probably shouldn't have made the tourney last year making the final 4 after playing 3 non-P5 programs is that impressive. they lost to most of the good teams they played last year.

i would say overall the former big east programs have declined since entering the ACC. ND has been better.

i think the former big east teams would be better off from basketball recruiting standpoint if they stayed in big east.

Once again, it doesn't matter if you played 4 non P5 teams on the way to the Final 4. You still made the Final Four. In doing so, Syracuse became the first 10 seed to make it that far. Tournament has been going on for decades and many teams have had opportunities to take advantage of bracket breakdowns.

As for the newbies...ND has gotten better. Louisville is about the same. Syracuse is about the same. Pitt got worse.
03-13-2017 04:40 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
ok, if I am making a case the conference has become stronger, I would do it based on overall resume, not a random final 4 by bubble team. i'm not taking anything away from Cuse's run last year.

i don't recall Cuse being an annual bubble team in the Big East.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 04:42 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 04:41 PM
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jaminandjachin Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:41 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  ok, if I am making a case the conference has become stronger, I would do it based on overall resume, not a random final 4 by bubble team. i'm not taking anything away from Cuse's run last year.

i don't recall Cuse being an annual bubble team in the Big East.

You do realize they're on scholarship restrictions right? They were 28-6 in their first season in the ACC. The second year they were ineligible and that's when the penalties got handed down. That's the main reason why they've taken a dip. Truth be told, Syracuse had some NIT years in the Big East too.
03-13-2017 04:45 PM
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Lenvillecards Offline
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What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:45 PM)jaminandjachin Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 04:41 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  ok, if I am making a case the conference has become stronger, I would do it based on overall resume, not a random final 4 by bubble team. i'm not taking anything away from Cuse's run last year.

i don't recall Cuse being an annual bubble team in the Big East.

You do realize they're on scholarship restrictions right? They were 28-6 in their first season in the ACC. The second year they were ineligible and that's when the penalties got handed down. That's the main reason why they've taken a dip. Truth be told, Syracuse had some NIT years in the Big East too.

Not to mention that JB has announced that he will be retiring no later than the end of next season. That also hurts recruiting.
03-13-2017 05:54 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 04:17 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  ok, no need to continue discussing it. reason I posted in somebody had said on another topic that Cuse making the final 4 last year was more impressiive than winning the ACC tournament. I think what Duke did this week is far more impressive than Cuse last year.

Clemson did make an elite 8 in the late 90s sometime, lost to Bobby Jackson's Minnesota team.

Perspective: a UNC fan is arguing with you about your stupid anti-Syracuse bias.

Let it go, man. Life is too short.
03-13-2017 08:17 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
how is it anti-Syracuse to not be impressed by a team beating 3 non power 5 programs in the big dance and then squeaking out a win over UVA, before being blown out by UNC?

i would have the same view regardless of the team who did this.

i would say Clemson's run last year in the ACC, with wins over Duke, Pitt, Miami, and some other team, was more impressive.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 08:35 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 08:34 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
(03-13-2017 08:34 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  how is it anti-Syracuse to not be impressed by a team beating 3 non power 5 programs in the big dance and then squeaking out a win over UVA, before being blown out by UNC?

i would have the same view regardless of the team who did this.

i would say Clemson's run last year in the ACC, with wins over Duke, Pitt, Miami, and some other team, was more impressive.

How many posts in this thread alone do you have trying to diminish SU's FF run?

I get that you're upset that Jimmy hurt your feelings. You've made that abundantly clear, but give it up. You've hit the point where you're literally arguing w/ everyone on the board, regardless of their team affiliation.

I really, really don't want to put someone on an ignore list, but you're getting painful. There's no possible way you can derive joy out of being so miserable. In addition to being generally right, Jim is a grumpy old man who is upset that the Denny's closed. Don't let him get to you.
03-13-2017 09:43 PM
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ClemVegas Offline
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RE: What A Difference the Newbies Make
put me on your ignore list, homey. it is not my fault if you take it personally that I don't think Cuse's run last year was super impressive given the teams they played. I'm also not an ACC cheerleader except maybe against SEC in football.

i'm only arguing with people who attack me, and it is with people that I have a history with. Losers that run to the moderator if you say something they don't like. i think reason this forum is so inactive is it is over-moderated, or was in the past. everytime i come on here, it is the same few people basically having the same conversations usually about $$$$$.

In over-moderated forums, the regular posters have a lot of power, they can gang up on newcomers and get them banned. they enjoy this process. but it is a reason the forum audience never grows.

SEC rant has incredible traffic and i see new people on there everytime I post. it isn't heavily moderated. the crazy thing is I have better ACC sports discussions on there than here.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 10:14 PM by ClemVegas.)
03-13-2017 09:56 PM
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