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Dambrot Leaving??
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(03-31-2017 09:25 AM)burden Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 08:11 AM)axeme Wrote:  Sometimes a coach stays too long and the message gets old. There are very, very few coaches who can go on indefinitely. The Coach Ks and Roy Williams and Mark Few and Huggins and Boeheim are very much exceptions.

He had a good run at Akron. Best they ever had by far. Never got over the hump like KSU, Ohio, Miami, Ball St. did at their peaks. But his legacy there will be consistency. Usually one of the best 3-4 teams in the conference over his tenure.

I agree but I never understood it. Any individual player only hears it for 4-5 years so why after 10-12 years does that set of players begin to rebel. Is it a variation of "tradition never graduates"? Something like "grumbling never graduates" or does the coach change how he delivers the message. Dictating it instead of explaining why? The exceptions you mention are so successful they are pretty much untouchable with players flocking to play for them. Dambrot wasn't that good.

My uneducated guess would be over time you get little problems and every year yes one group graduates but you still have 3 groups who was there and if that little problem was never dealt with then it might carry over and then it might grow by a tiny bit every year and over a long time you get this problem (maybe).
03-31-2017 07:16 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(03-31-2017 07:16 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 09:25 AM)burden Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 08:11 AM)axeme Wrote:  Sometimes a coach stays too long and the message gets old. There are very, very few coaches who can go on indefinitely. The Coach Ks and Roy Williams and Mark Few and Huggins and Boeheim are very much exceptions.

He had a good run at Akron. Best they ever had by far. Never got over the hump like KSU, Ohio, Miami, Ball St. did at their peaks. But his legacy there will be consistency. Usually one of the best 3-4 teams in the conference over his tenure.

I agree but I never understood it. Any individual player only hears it for 4-5 years so why after 10-12 years does that set of players begin to rebel. Is it a variation of "tradition never graduates"? Something like "grumbling never graduates" or does the coach change how he delivers the message. Dictating it instead of explaining why? The exceptions you mention are so successful they are pretty much untouchable with players flocking to play for them. Dambrot wasn't that good.

My uneducated guess would be over time you get little problems and every year yes one group graduates but you still have 3 groups who was there and if that little problem was never dealt with then it might carry over and then it might grow by a tiny bit every year and over a long time you get this problem (maybe).

Your probably right. Your a "grumbling never graduates" advocate.
(This post was last modified: 04-01-2017 07:52 AM by burden.)
04-01-2017 07:51 AM
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Sultan of Euphonistan Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-01-2017 07:51 AM)burden Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 07:16 PM)Sultan of Euphonistan Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 09:25 AM)burden Wrote:  
(03-31-2017 08:11 AM)axeme Wrote:  Sometimes a coach stays too long and the message gets old. There are very, very few coaches who can go on indefinitely. The Coach Ks and Roy Williams and Mark Few and Huggins and Boeheim are very much exceptions.

He had a good run at Akron. Best they ever had by far. Never got over the hump like KSU, Ohio, Miami, Ball St. did at their peaks. But his legacy there will be consistency. Usually one of the best 3-4 teams in the conference over his tenure.

I agree but I never understood it. Any individual player only hears it for 4-5 years so why after 10-12 years does that set of players begin to rebel. Is it a variation of "tradition never graduates"? Something like "grumbling never graduates" or does the coach change how he delivers the message. Dictating it instead of explaining why? The exceptions you mention are so successful they are pretty much untouchable with players flocking to play for them. Dambrot wasn't that good.

My uneducated guess would be over time you get little problems and every year yes one group graduates but you still have 3 groups who was there and if that little problem was never dealt with then it might carry over and then it might grow by a tiny bit every year and over a long time you get this problem (maybe).

Your probably right. Your a "grumbling never graduates" advocate.

You can make it go away but it requires doing something (and the longer it has gone on the more you have to do to make it go away). That mya be another factor when you are younger you may be more inclined to work at making those things go away but if you are near the end you just might think "screw it" it won't bite me for a while yet and by then I will be retiring.
04-01-2017 01:21 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(03-31-2017 06:48 AM)burden Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 10:30 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Looks like Antino Jackson is officially leaving. I know we've had guys leave when we lost a coach but I never remember this many defections from guys that play heavy minutes. At this point they're losing somewhere around 120 minutes per game from the two seniors and the 3 transfers. That's a lot to replace. At least their new coach will have plenty of scholarships to play with.

As someone said here some of them quit on Dambrot. Akron might be better off in the long term losing these players and starting over. You could sense something was wrong towards the end of the season. Cheatham in particular looked almost bored.

I don't think his players quit on him. Seemed like they lost focus some towards the end of the regular season but I thought a lot of that could be attributed to the parody in the MAC and the fact they weren't really being pushed by anyone for the number one seed. Seemed like they regained that focus in the MAC tournament as they rolled through their side of the bracket and lost a close game to us in the championship. If you think some of the guys key guys quit on the coach then essentially you're saying they were significantly better than Kent we just wanted it more. I genuinely thought we had more talent than them and by the end of the season had developed into the better team.

Honestly, I just thought they're start to MAC play was fools gold. They were good, not great, and eventually that caught up to them. Don't forget they did go and win their first game in the NIT. If guys quit on their coach in the regular season it would be really easy to get blown out in a post season tournament none of them wanted to be in.
04-01-2017 04:28 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(03-31-2017 04:23 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:  
(03-30-2017 10:30 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Looks like Antino Jackson is officially leaving. I know we've had guys leave when we lost a coach but I never remember this many defections from guys that play heavy minutes. At this point they're losing somewhere around 120 minutes per game from the two seniors and the 3 transfers. That's a lot to replace. At least their new coach will have plenty of scholarships to play with.

That won't matter at this point. There is not a lot out there to choose from unless they can get some 5th year transfers.

Eh, I wouldn't write them off yet. Let's see who they coach is first and who he brings in. Obviously there's less talent available right now but there's still plenty out there. There are a ton of HS kids that ask out of their LOI due to coaches leaving. There are a ton of JUCO players out there that were under recruited last year then had breakout seasons this year. Heck, if memory serves De La Rosa, Edwards, DeBerry, and Zabo were all recruited after the season last year. We've had plenty of really good Summer recruits over the years as well.

Akron will still have some experience and some talent. Ivey looked like he could be a budding star for them and, to my knowledge he's not leaving. At this point, the big thing they can sell to kids is playing time. Whoever they get is going to come in and have a chance to start right away. That's something most teams can't offer at this point. The deck is obviously stacked against them but there are still paths to them being a factor next year. They better get a coach in place soon though and it better be a good one.
04-01-2017 04:37 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
Interesting article about Dambrot's weak scheduling. It's kind of ironic the frustration of being a one bid league contributed to him leaving because his scheduling really contributed to the MACs status.

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/inde...elped.html
04-01-2017 08:01 PM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
One of the guys their fan base wanted, Lamont Paris, was just named head coach at Chattanooga.
04-02-2017 08:38 PM
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Slinkin Street Flash Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-01-2017 08:01 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Interesting article about Dambrot's weak scheduling. It's kind of ironic the frustration of being a one bid league contributed to him leaving because his scheduling really contributed to the MACs status.

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/inde...elped.html

Typical Plain Dealer reporting..."Dambrot's lone regular season win over a Power-5 conference team was against Mississippi State in 2011." and they point they make is that Acorn never got an at-large bid because they never scheduled anyone tough

Then at the end of the on-line version it reads "This column misstated Keith Dambrot's record against Power5 conference teams. In Dambrot's 13-year career, the Zips also beat Penn State, Arkansas, Southern California, South Carolina, Oregon State and Mississippi State, the latter twice"

So whoever did the research completely messed it up. Looking at past Sagarin strength-of-schedule numbers, it looks like since 2010-2011, Acorn has been above the MAC average, but before 2008 played some of the easiest schedules in the MAC
04-03-2017 03:02 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-03-2017 03:02 PM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:01 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Interesting article about Dambrot's weak scheduling. It's kind of ironic the frustration of being a one bid league contributed to him leaving because his scheduling really contributed to the MACs status.

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/inde...elped.html

Typical Plain Dealer reporting..."Dambrot's lone regular season win over a Power-5 conference team was against Mississippi State in 2011." and they point they make is that Acorn never got an at-large bid because they never scheduled anyone tough

Then at the end of the on-line version it reads "This column misstated Keith Dambrot's record against Power5 conference teams. In Dambrot's 13-year career, the Zips also beat Penn State, Arkansas, Southern California, South Carolina, Oregon State and Mississippi State, the latter twice"

So whoever did the research completely messed it up. Looking at past Sagarin strength-of-schedule numbers, it looks like since 2010-2011, Acorn has been above the MAC average, but before 2008 played some of the easiest schedules in the MAC

Personally, I've always wondered how Livingston managed to keep his job for thirty plus years because I don't remember him ever being good and having meaningful insight. The PD is a regular cesspool of bad babyboomer journalists.
04-03-2017 03:30 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
I often wonder if instead of referencing fan forums, the talent at the plain dealer would be better off researching the teams that they cover and trying to put together well written articles that stretch beyond "brief overviews" of each half.

I am sure that part of the problem is that the Plain Dealer needs room to write stories about a kid from Ohio State passing gas or about "5 things you should know about Tyron Lue's latest appointment at the foot doctor." But the fact remains, the art of journalism has been dumbed down.

Its a shame, because there are good writers (I believe Alexander and Livingston are two of them) that are basically giving the same information that any fool with a twitter account or a thumb could give. The worst part is now I watch them get so defensive of criticism when the fact is that there seems to be little effort, let alone pride put into their writing or "media" in general.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2017 07:37 AM by fallsdog.)
04-03-2017 03:48 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
I think Shaw and Pluto are pretty good. They are on the TV and radio shows talking sports and defending their opinions.

Livingston is a mystery to me. He is never on the radio talk shows and has no real presence in the Cleveland area that I have ever noticed. Just writes his article and goes home I guess.

Manoloff is so pessimistic (I think on purpose just to attract attention) that I just don't pay much attention to him.

The reason their all baby boomers is anybody younger that goes into the newspaper business probably needs some career advice.
04-03-2017 06:37 PM
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anti-zip Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-03-2017 03:02 PM)Slinkin Street Flash Wrote:  
(04-01-2017 08:01 PM)anti-zip Wrote:  Interesting article about Dambrot's weak scheduling. It's kind of ironic the frustration of being a one bid league contributed to him leaving because his scheduling really contributed to the MACs status.

http://www.cleveland.com/livingston/inde...elped.html

Typical Plain Dealer reporting..."Dambrot's lone regular season win over a Power-5 conference team was against Mississippi State in 2011." and they point they make is that Acorn never got an at-large bid because they never scheduled anyone tough

Then at the end of the on-line version it reads "This column misstated Keith Dambrot's record against Power5 conference teams. In Dambrot's 13-year career, the Zips also beat Penn State, Arkansas, Southern California, South Carolina, Oregon State and Mississippi State, the latter twice"

So whoever did the research completely messed it up. Looking at past Sagarin strength-of-schedule numbers, it looks like since 2010-2011, Acorn has been above the MAC average, but before 2008 played some of the easiest schedules in the MAC

Lol wow, that is hilariously bad reporting. I think the premise holds some water though. He didn't schedule like he expected to be worthy of an at large bid. When you're consistently at the top of the league you'd expect a more challenging schedule.
04-03-2017 06:47 PM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-03-2017 06:37 PM)burden Wrote:  I think Shaw and Pluto are pretty good. They are on the TV and radio shows talking sports and defending their opinions.

Livingston is a mystery to me. He is never on the radio talk shows and has no real presence in the Cleveland area that I have ever noticed. Just writes his article and goes home I guess.

Manoloff is so pessimistic (I think on purpose just to attract attention) that I just don't pay much attention to him.

The reason their all baby boomers is anybody younger that goes into the newspaper business probably needs some career advice.

I don't really even consider Pluto a PD guy. He's really an ABJ guy that they somehow pissed away and I really have no problem with him. I don't think I've read a Bud Shaw column in twenty years. About the only 'local' guy I really like is Jim Ingraham.

Good point about the newspaper business, though. I considered that as a career at one point and am very, very glad I didn't go down that path.
04-03-2017 11:33 PM
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burden Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-03-2017 11:33 PM)bopol Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 06:37 PM)burden Wrote:  I think Shaw and Pluto are pretty good. They are on the TV and radio shows talking sports and defending their opinions.

Livingston is a mystery to me. He is never on the radio talk shows and has no real presence in the Cleveland area that I have ever noticed. Just writes his article and goes home I guess.

Manoloff is so pessimistic (I think on purpose just to attract attention) that I just don't pay much attention to him.

The reason their all baby boomers is anybody younger that goes into the newspaper business probably needs some career advice.

I don't really even consider Pluto a PD guy. He's really an ABJ guy that they somehow pissed away and I really have no problem with him. I don't think I've read a Bud Shaw column in twenty years. About the only 'local' guy I really like is Jim Ingraham.

Good point about the newspaper business, though. I considered that as a career at one point and am very, very glad I didn't go down that path.

Just curious. What's your issue with Shaw?
04-04-2017 06:28 AM
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bopol Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
(04-04-2017 06:28 AM)burden Wrote:  Just curious. What's your issue with Shaw?

I don't have a current issue with Shaw, but I never found him interesting (in parts because he tended to write about things I didn't care about) and so he never got to the point where I would casually read his columns and I honestly haven't read one in twenty years.
04-04-2017 07:25 AM
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dannyb73 Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
Sounds like John Groce to Akron is a real possibility.
04-04-2017 02:23 PM
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KSU93 Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
groce will be announced tomorrow. Just in time to go get a few recruits. Hopefully a few more Akron players will realize he is just Dambrot lite and transfer instead of having to deal with that idiot.
04-04-2017 03:42 PM
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axeme Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
Oh, this is going to be very amusing. There could be multiple injuries from Akron and Ohio U fans flip-flopping on the things they used to say about Groce.
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2017 04:06 PM by axeme.)
04-04-2017 04:03 PM
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fallsdog Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
Beggar. All he needs is a cup and some loose change.
04-04-2017 06:37 PM
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Post: #80
RE: Dambrot Leaving??
John... John... "Gross"..... Lololol
04-04-2017 11:14 PM
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