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2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #21
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 04:23 PM)Chappy Wrote:  When the president of the university covers up multiple felonies ...

... then the president has committed crimes.

Fire him. Charge him with the crimes. Have him plead guilty or take him to court.


That is that. Nothing more can be said. Any punishment against the school is illogical.

How can you possibly punish a collection of buildings simply because one man took it upon himself to commit crimes???
03-13-2017 04:29 PM
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Nittany_Bearcat Offline
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Post: #22
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 04:23 PM)Chappy Wrote:  You'd probably defend Mayor Larry Vaughn...

When the president of the university covers up multiple felonies, yes, the school should be punished more severely than if the president covered up a single shoplifting incident.

Penn State WAS punished severely.

I get it, some people wanted a nuclear bomb dropped on State College --- the punishment didn't reach that level of severity, but it certainly WAS severe.
03-13-2017 04:29 PM
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jaredf29 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 11:17 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote:  Oh, no. Now the federal court system is also in on the conspiracy to smear Joe's legacy. When will this tragedy end?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cue the Paterno family press release.
03-13-2017 04:41 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
When a university - by a coaching staff, an athletic department and an administration - values winning football games over protecting children from a serial child predator, then that school should absolutely be at threat to have its program shut down. Obviously, that didn't happen - but it doesn't change the fact that many individuals knew the type of monster it had allowed on campus, and the destruction he caused while there.
03-13-2017 04:55 PM
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Chappy Offline
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Post: #25
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 04:29 PM)Nittany_Bearcat Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 04:23 PM)Chappy Wrote:  You'd probably defend Mayor Larry Vaughn...

When the president of the university covers up multiple felonies, yes, the school should be punished more severely than if the president covered up a single shoplifting incident.

Penn State WAS punished severely.

I get it, some people wanted a nuclear bomb dropped on State College --- the punishment didn't reach that level of severity, but it certainly WAS severe.

I know they were, but Bison doesn't think they should have been. He doesn't think the NCAA should have taken any action at all. He's entitled to his opinion. I just disagree.
03-13-2017 05:56 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #26
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 04:29 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 04:23 PM)Chappy Wrote:  When the president of the university covers up multiple felonies ...

... then the president has committed crimes.

Fire him. Charge him with the crimes. Have him plead guilty or take him to court.


That is that. Nothing more can be said. Any punishment against the school is illogical.

How can you possibly punish a collection of buildings simply because one man took it upon himself to commit crimes???

A collection of buildings is cheaper than a penn state degree.

Why did I pay for a PSU degree when I could have just bought a collection of buildings and given myself a degree?
03-13-2017 06:40 PM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #27
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 02:08 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 02:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Penn St fb should have been deep sixed for three years. I said it then and I say it now. But the almighty dollar is more important than justice.

A Cincy student-athlete committed a crime. He didn't rape children, but it was a crime nonetheless.

Therefore, the appropriate thing to do would be to shut down UCincy athletics for some period of time, perhaps a few months.


Makes sense, right?

Sigh... Let's count the non sequiturs, eh?
1) It wasn't a "Student Athlete." It was an Employee of the University.
2) It wasn't "a" crime, it was an ongoing series of crimes that took place over AT LEAST 10 years.
3) Some of the crimes TOOK PLACE on Penn State University property AND Penn State Facilities.
4) The Crimes were suspected by Penn State University officials who, by their own testimony...and now their own admission... did nothing to check out their suspicions.
5) The Crimes CONTINUED AFTER the Employee was granted retirement, and ON Penn State property...MEANING said retiree had no "right" to be on said property, but was ALLOWED to be on that property by Penn State University...while committing those crimes.
6) The retired employee was OBSERVED committing those crimes by an Assistant Coach, who reported that, which was still not acted upon by the Penn State Administration, who still granted the retired employee the privileges of using the Penn State property.

So do you get where "A Cincy student-athlete committed a crime...Therefore, the appropriate thing to do would be to shut down UCincy athletics for some period of time, perhaps a few months." doesn't approach what happened at Penn State? Try reformulating it in the Penn State case and you would get:
A Cincy employee committed a series of crimes over at least ten years--some of which took place on the University facilities. The Administration was suspicious but undertook no investigation, but allowed the employee to retire. But still the retired employee was granted access to the University facilities, during which time the crimes continued. His criminal activity was observed and reported by an Assistant Coach and still no action was taken...

Therefore, the appropriate thing to do would be to shut down UCincy athletics for some period of time, perhaps a few months.


And the answer might just be: YES.
03-13-2017 07:07 PM
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CrazyPaco Offline
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Post: #28
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 01:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 01:16 PM)TerryD Wrote:  NCAA penalty="voluntarily gave up $48 million".......???

There was no such thing, I think you know that too.

The NCAA tried to force Penn St to pay it a penalty, but rather than be embarrassed in court, it "allowed" Penn St to give that money towards funding anti-child abuse programs in PA.

Nice try, NCAA.

You are a very sad, very sick individual.
03-13-2017 09:12 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #29
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  When a university - by a coaching staff, an athletic department and an administration - values winning football games over protecting children from a serial child predator

Penn St didn't do that (value ___ over ___). As has been correctly noted: the actions were those taken solely by a few individuals, who took it upon themselves to carry out incredible acts of negligence.

Criminals are punished by the criminal justice system.

You can't punish an entire school because a couple individuals acted on their own. That's absurd.


(03-13-2017 06:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  A collection of buildings is cheaper than a penn state degree.

$18k a year for a PA resident. Maybe not the most affordable, but hardly a private school cost.


(03-13-2017 07:07 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  A Cincy employee committed a series of crimes over at least ten years--some of which took place on the University facilities. The Administration was suspicious but undertook no investigation, but allowed the employee to retire. But still the retired employee was granted access to the University facilities, during which time the crimes continued. His criminal activity was observed and reported by an Assistant Coach and still no action was taken...

In other words, a few individuals took it upon themselves to commit incredible crimes and acts of negligence.

Then you fire them, charge them with crimes, and lock them up.

Nothing more can be said.


MAYBE if the entire school had made a pact to hide the crimes, you might have a point. But 5 people out of tens of thousands??? Absurd.


(03-13-2017 09:12 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  very sick individual.

If calling out the absurdity of punishing an entire university for the actions of individuals makes me sick, then I'm sick.

If calling out the illogical and entirely emotionally driven hatred agenda of those who hate(d) Paterno, Penn State, and people who live(d) in Central PA makes me sick, then I'm sick.

If calling out the witch hunt against Penn State for what it is, a witch hunt, makes me sick, then call me Sickie McSicko, mf'er!
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 09:21 AM by MplsBison.)
03-14-2017 09:20 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #30
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
PS -

I know (not guess, know) people on this board are really, really, really sick and tired of me using this counter-argument, each and every time this gets brought up in the infinity number of Penn St and Baylor threads on this board.

Fine. That is your right.


But then I have just as equal a right to complain about the number of Penn St and Baylor threads on this board! Why do we need 172 threads on the same topic????
03-14-2017 09:24 AM
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TerryD Offline
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Post: #31
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 09:20 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  When a university - by a coaching staff, an athletic department and an administration - values winning football games over protecting children from a serial child predator

Penn St didn't do that (value ___ over ___). As has been correctly noted: the actions were those taken solely by a few individuals, who took it upon themselves to carry out incredible acts of negligence.

Criminals are punished by the criminal justice system.

You can't punish an entire school because a couple individuals acted on their own. That's absurd.


(03-13-2017 06:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  A collection of buildings is cheaper than a penn state degree.

$18k a year for a PA resident. Maybe not the most affordable, but hardly a private school cost.


(03-13-2017 07:07 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  A Cincy employee committed a series of crimes over at least ten years--some of which took place on the University facilities. The Administration was suspicious but undertook no investigation, but allowed the employee to retire. But still the retired employee was granted access to the University facilities, during which time the crimes continued. His criminal activity was observed and reported by an Assistant Coach and still no action was taken...

In other words, a few individuals took it upon themselves to commit incredible crimes and acts of negligence.

Then you fire them, charge them with crimes, and lock them up.

Nothing more can be said.


MAYBE if the entire school had made a pact to hide the crimes, you might have a point. But 5 people out of tens of thousands??? Absurd.



(03-13-2017 09:12 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  very sick individual.

If calling out the absurdity of punishing an entire university for the actions of individuals makes me sick, then I'm sick.

If calling out the illogical and entirely emotionally driven hatred agenda of those who hate(d) Paterno, Penn State, and people who live(d) in Central PA makes me sick, then I'm sick.

If calling out the witch hunt against Penn State for what it is, a witch hunt, makes me sick, then call me Sickie McSicko, mf'er!


The five are the leaders of the entity or organization or "group of buildings" (sic).

You punish the entity to deter this type of stuff happening in the future.
03-14-2017 11:21 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #32
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  The five are the leaders of the entity or organization

An absolutely arbitrary observation, which should carry zero logical weight.


(03-14-2017 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  You punish the entity to deter this type of stuff happening in the future.

A typical human conclusion: illogical, driven by emotional hatred, and ultimately ineffective, as it does not address the root cause of the problem.
03-14-2017 11:36 AM
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BearcatJerry Offline
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Post: #33
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  A typical human conclusion: illogical, driven by emotional hatred, and ultimately ineffective, as it does not address the root cause of the problem.

What problem, exactly?
03-14-2017 12:35 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 12:35 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  What problem, exactly?

That individuals in the university's administration and executive leadership positions would choose to take the actions of covering up crimes.
03-14-2017 01:17 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #35
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 09:20 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 04:55 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  When a university - by a coaching staff, an athletic department and an administration - values winning football games over protecting children from a serial child predator

Penn St didn't do that (value ___ over ___). As has been correctly noted: the actions were those taken solely by a few individuals, who took it upon themselves to carry out incredible acts of negligence.

Criminals are punished by the criminal justice system.

You can't punish an entire school because a couple individuals acted on their own. That's absurd.


(03-13-2017 06:40 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  A collection of buildings is cheaper than a penn state degree.

$18k a year for a PA resident. Maybe not the most affordable, but hardly a private school cost.


(03-13-2017 07:07 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  A Cincy employee committed a series of crimes over at least ten years--some of which took place on the University facilities. The Administration was suspicious but undertook no investigation, but allowed the employee to retire. But still the retired employee was granted access to the University facilities, during which time the crimes continued. His criminal activity was observed and reported by an Assistant Coach and still no action was taken...

In other words, a few individuals took it upon themselves to commit incredible crimes and acts of negligence.

Then you fire them, charge them with crimes, and lock them up.

Nothing more can be said.


MAYBE if the entire school had made a pact to hide the crimes, you might have a point. But 5 people out of tens of thousands??? Absurd.


(03-13-2017 09:12 PM)CrazyPaco Wrote:  very sick individual.

If calling out the absurdity of punishing an entire university for the actions of individuals makes me sick, then I'm sick.

If calling out the illogical and entirely emotionally driven hatred agenda of those who hate(d) Paterno, Penn State, and people who live(d) in Central PA makes me sick, then I'm sick.

If calling out the witch hunt against Penn State for what it is, a witch hunt, makes me sick, then call me Sickie McSicko, mf'er!

It's more for out of state, and it's more for grad school. $18k is the cheapest tuition amount (excluding scholarships, etc.), and that's still the most expensive in the nation for a public school* (or at least close to it). But I think that you missed my point. If schools really were nothing more than a collection of buildings, then why what, other than weather, separates one school from another?

*I know PSU is technically state-related, but it's historically public, and it's public/private status and/or exact tuition amount aren't really my point.
03-14-2017 04:09 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #36
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 04:09 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  If schools really were nothing more than a collection of buildings, then why what, other than weather, separates one school from another?

The trivial answer to that, of course, is the particular faculty that work at the school. (assuming the facilities of the schools being compared are equivalent)

Otherwise, if all other factors were the same (tuition, weather, physical location, etc.), then the name of the school itself is irrelevant and they could just be called school A, school B, etc. The people make the school, not the other way around.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 04:27 PM by MplsBison.)
03-14-2017 04:26 PM
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Native Georgian Online
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Post: #37
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-13-2017 02:05 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Penn St fb should have been deep sixed for three years. I said it then and I say it now. But the almighty dollar is more important than justice.
But that would've required PSU to give up something that's important to them. No amount of $$$$ could make them do that on their own.
03-14-2017 04:31 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #38
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 04:26 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 04:09 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  If schools really were nothing more than a collection of buildings, then why what, other than weather, separates one school from another?

The trivial answer to that, of course, is the particular faculty that work at the school. (assuming the facilities of the schools being compared are equivalent)

Otherwise, if all other factors were the same (tuition, weather, physical location, etc.), then the name of the school itself is irrelevant and they could just be called school A, school B, etc. The people make the school, not the other way around.

I think that's the point that the people arguing against you are trying to make.
03-14-2017 05:05 PM
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GoldenWarrior11 Online
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Post: #39
RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
SMU was given the death penalty due to the actions of individuals leading and involved with the football program. This situation - strictly based on the level of involvement (coaches, athletic department and administration - is exactly the same. The only question is weighing the severity of paying players under the table is as bad as allowing/overlooking a university employee to abuse children - which, apparently, is not as bad to some.

I, personally, believe Penn State should have been given the death penalty - based on the consequences SMU got. Having said that, I also believe that Miami and Baylor should have been given a similar penalty (as I do for UNC). However, I have less than zero say in those matters. Those are just my personal opinions.

Until the NCAA comes down hard on institutions for these outrageous scandals, they will continue to make the news every few years. Schools will continue to sweep it under the rug, hire new individuals that say all the right things, but that doesn't change the gross injustices that have occurred in collegiate athletics - publicly nevertheless.
03-14-2017 05:37 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: 2 Penn St. ex-administrators plead guilty in sex abuse case
(03-14-2017 11:36 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-14-2017 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  The five are the leaders of the entity or organization

An absolutely arbitrary observation, which should carry zero logical weight.


(03-14-2017 11:21 AM)TerryD Wrote:  You punish the entity to deter this type of stuff happening in the future.

A typical human conclusion: illogical, driven by emotional hatred, and ultimately ineffective, as it does not address the root cause of the problem.


Typical Bison over generalization and excuse mongering for wrongdoers.

Knee jerk reaction to any punishment handed out by the NCAA or the schools themselves.

Hint: You ain't that enlightened and magnanimous, even though you may think so.

You just seem to coddle offenders.
03-15-2017 07:48 AM
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