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TexanMark Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 11:52 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  2-13 away from home and Syracuse played just one true road game ooc. That is unacceptable.

If you are going to throw out stats...make them correct.
03-13-2017 03:08 PM
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jdgaucho Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 03:08 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:52 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  2-13 away from home and Syracuse played just one true road game ooc. That is unacceptable.

If you are going to throw out stats...make them correct.

Pardon me, they were a combined 2-11 in road and neutral games, with just one true road game. That's not enough.
03-13-2017 03:18 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 07:45 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Mick Cronin said that publicly, and thus...........

Of all of the Top 6 Seeds lines UC is the only one playing 3 time zones from home. 6th seed with an RPI of #12. Win and you probably get UCLA in Sacramento.

For Cincinnati it's actually an advantage, because they can fly to Sacto today if they want to, while their Friday afternoon opponent has to play in Dayton, Ohio on Tuesday night and fly from Ohio to Sacramento on Wednesday morning. That's a lucky break for Cincinnati, and one they wouldn't have if their Friday game was in Tulsa (where another 6-seed, SMU, is playing another First Four winner on Friday).

Also, if he doesn't like being sent to the west coast, he needs to get in line behind all of the west coast teams over the years that have been sent all the way to the east coast to play first-round games, sometimes with a 9:00 am Pacific time start.
03-13-2017 03:26 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Online
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Post: #44
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 03:26 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 07:45 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Mick Cronin said that publicly, and thus...........

Of all of the Top 6 Seeds lines UC is the only one playing 3 time zones from home. 6th seed with an RPI of #12. Win and you probably get UCLA in Sacramento.

For Cincinnati it's actually an advantage, because they can fly to Sacto today if they want to, while their Friday afternoon opponent has to play in Dayton, Ohio on Tuesday night and fly from Ohio to Sacramento on Wednesday morning. That's a lucky break for Cincinnati, and one they wouldn't have if their Friday game was in Tulsa (where another 6-seed, SMU, is playing another First Four winner on Friday).

Also, if he doesn't like being sent to the west coast, he needs to get in line behind all of the west coast teams over the years that have been sent all the way to the east coast to play first-round games, sometimes with a 9:00 am Pacific time start.

IF UC wins their first game and plays UCLA...how do their fans travel. Will it look like a UCLA home game? UK fans will make Indy and Memphis look like Rupp Arena. Anyway that is the west coast for UC 3/4 years. Virtually no fans are going to make that trip. Not as bad as back in the 80's when Purdue played Memphis @Memphis then 2 years later (Co Big Ten champ, same record as IU) they played LSU @LSU. NCAA would never make Bobby Knight play a tourney game at another teams home court.

BTW what happened to using the RPI? Did the Committee ditch that, what are they using anyone know.

Regarding WC teams playing in the East, that is always going the be more likely as that is where most of the sites are. Dayton play in
Buffalo, Greensboro, Indianapolis, Milwaukee, Orlando, Tulsa, Sacramento, Salt Lake City and Indianapolis get first-weekend duties. For the regionals, Kansas City, San Jose, Memphis and New York City (Madison Square Garden).
03-13-2017 03:47 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Biggest snubs
To win their bracket, they would have to be the top seeds anyway. If Cincy really is a power Basketball program, they should be able to deal with UCLA. If not, that would expose the AAC as no longer worthy of much discussion.

Wedge is completely right, this is as easy a path as you can ask, and UCLA wouldn't be until the weekend. No excuses. But since Cronin will be in the wine region, perhaps the fans should hand him a bottle of local vintage "whine"
03-13-2017 03:52 PM
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SuperFlyBCat Online
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Post: #46
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 03:52 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  To win their bracket, they would have to be the top seeds anyway. If Cincy really is a power Basketball program, they should be able to deal with UCLA. If not, that would expose the AAC as no longer worthy of much discussion.

Wedge is completely right, this is as easy a path as you can ask, and UCLA wouldn't be until the weekend. No excuses. But since Cronin will be in the wine region, perhaps the fans should hand him a bottle of local vintage "whine"

So UCLA is playing AAC or are they playing UC? BIG has exactly 1 Title in the last 26 years, but most would consider it a very good "conference". If you want to do conference smack an AAC team won the title a couple of years ago.
03-13-2017 04:02 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Biggest snubs
The RPI is stupid. It is fixed in favor for the P5 conferences. Sorry, but Big East schools will get snubbed in favor of the P5 schools as well.Why should a below 20 win teams get in ahead of teams like Belmont or Illinois State?
03-13-2017 04:11 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 03:18 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 03:08 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:52 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  2-13 away from home and Syracuse played just one true road game ooc. That is unacceptable.

If you are going to throw out stats...make them correct.

Pardon me, they were a combined 2-11 in road and neutral games, with just one true road game. That's not enough.

SU OOC included S. Carolina (neutral), Wisconsin (away), UConn* (neutral), Georgetown* (home), St. John's* (home).

*Denotes rivalry game against a former conference-mate.

It's not like SU didn't play real teams, and/or didn't play real teams away from the Dome. I know not all of those teams had great years, but they all have great players, and rivalry games/familiarity is an important consideration.

Also, that's OOC. SU also played an ACC schedule.
03-13-2017 05:15 PM
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_C2_ Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Biggest snubs
Thankfully, the committee doesn't care about rivalry games except as a slight blip on the radar.
03-13-2017 05:20 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 05:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Thankfully, the committee doesn't care about rivalry games except as a slight blip on the radar.

Yup. It would suck if they did their job instead of giving handouts to nobodies who schedule nobodies.
03-13-2017 06:34 PM
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IWokeUpLikeThis Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 06:34 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 05:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Thankfully, the committee doesn't care about rivalry games except as a slight blip on the radar.

Yup. It would suck if they did their job instead of giving handouts to nobodies who schedule nobodies.

Omitting Syracuse and their 199 NC SOS, 2-11 r/n record, 84 RPI, losing record against RPI top 200, and 5 RPI101+ losses was the lone silver lining of yesterday. Including them would've been the ultimate self-parody by the selection committee.
03-13-2017 07:17 PM
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Go College Sports Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 05:15 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 03:18 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 03:08 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:52 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  2-13 away from home and Syracuse played just one true road game ooc. That is unacceptable.

If you are going to throw out stats...make them correct.

Pardon me, they were a combined 2-11 in road and neutral games, with just one true road game. That's not enough.

SU OOC included S. Carolina (neutral), Wisconsin (away), UConn* (neutral), Georgetown* (home), St. John's* (home).

*Denotes rivalry game against a former conference-mate.

It's not like SU didn't play real teams, and/or didn't play real teams away from the Dome. I know not all of those teams had great years, but they all have great players, and rivalry games/familiarity is an important consideration.

Also, that's OOC. SU also played an ACC schedule.

The problem isn't that the opponents in those rivalry games weren't very strong. It's that the opponents weren't very strong, two of them were at home, and Cuse lost them all.
03-13-2017 07:31 PM
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nzmorange Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 07:17 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 06:34 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 05:20 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Thankfully, the committee doesn't care about rivalry games except as a slight blip on the radar.

Yup. It would suck if they did their job instead of giving handouts to nobodies who schedule nobodies.

Omitting Syracuse and their 199 NC SOS, 2-11 r/n record, 84 RPI, losing record against RPI top 200, and 5 RPI101+ losses was the lone silver lining of yesterday. Including them would've been the ultimate self-parody by the selection committee.

1. Those are cherry-picked stats. The better the conference, the worse the OOC. And that doesn't take into account the circumstances of the StJ game, the UConn game, and the Georgetown game.
2. Omitting SU is bad for the game - why would any school schedule big name OOC games if they're going to get punished for it.
3. Ask yourself who you think the last team in was (or at least the weakest team). Then ask yourself if you can honestly and truthfully see them winning the tourney. SU beat 3 T10 teams and went to overtime against a 4th. SU can clearly hang w/ anybody and beat anybody on any given day. DU could realistically win the tourney.
4. And on that note, your stats ignore the top-heaviness of SU's schedule. Its harder to look good against real competition w/ weak competition sprinkled in than against a bunch of mediocre teams.
03-13-2017 07:33 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Biggest snubs
NZ: #3 was NEVER supposed to be the metric used to decide whether to include teams!
03-13-2017 08:07 PM
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Nittany_Bearcat Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 07:33 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  1. Those are cherry-picked stats. The better the conference, the worse the OOC. And that doesn't take into account the circumstances of the StJ game, the UConn game, and the Georgetown game.
2. Omitting SU is bad for the game - why would any school schedule big name OOC games if they're going to get punished for it.
3. Ask yourself who you think the last team in was (or at least the weakest team). Then ask yourself if you can honestly and truthfully see them winning the tourney. SU beat 3 T10 teams and went to overtime against a 4th. SU can clearly hang w/ anybody and beat anybody on any given day. DU could realistically win the tourney.
4. And on that note, your stats ignore the top-heaviness of SU's schedule. Its harder to look good against real competition w/ weak competition sprinkled in than against a bunch of mediocre teams.

The pairings were decided 24 hours ago. Which means it's time to pivot: let's start talking about the ACTUAL GAMES as opposed to who did/didn't get selected!

So, Syracuse fans --- that means no more discussion of your team as regards the NCAA. If you want to talk Syracuse, move along to the NIT thread!!!
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 08:50 PM by Nittany_Bearcat.)
03-13-2017 08:49 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Biggest snubs
It would have been a travesty to include an 84 RPI Bottom half team that refuses to play OOC out of state like Syracuse
03-13-2017 09:58 PM
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Downtown Shocker Brown Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 08:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My biggest surprises:

1) No real snubs. Usually, I am outraged that some team X didn't make the dance, but not this time. Sure, you can make an argument for a few, like Cuse and Illinois State, but you can also easily make an argument against them. E.g., I saw the ESPN talking heads this weekend saying Syracuse would get in but I didn't believe it, IMO they had to do some damage in the ACC tournament to make it and they bombed out.

2) Duke as the overall national #8? Duke has the most talent and now they are healthy. IMO, they are as likely to win the national title as anyone, and they just won the ACC tournament. They should have been the top #2 seed. Villanova got screwed by having Duke in their region.

3) Wichita State as a #10 seed? This is a 30-win team that played a decent schedule. Should have been a 5 or 6 seed. Dayton got screwed having to face them early.

4) SMU as a #6? That's disrespect to the AAC. Very good team all year long. This team will beat Baylor and make the Sweet 16 before losing to Duke. Should have been a #4 seed.

One last point: The committee did UNC a favor by making them a #1 seed, but then slammed them with the toughest region. Their region includes UCLA and Kentucky, two teams fully capable of winning the national title, no other region has 3 true title contenders. Brutal stuff. It means UNC will almost surely play a Final-4 level opponent in the regional final.

Kenpom Rankings:

1. UNC: 3
2. Kentucky: 4
3. UCLA: 18
4. Butler: 26
5. Minnesota: 33
6. Cincinnati: 22
7. Dayton: 36
8. Arkansas: 38
9. Seton Hall: 53
10. Wichita State: 8
03-13-2017 10:00 PM
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quo vadis Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 05:15 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 03:18 PM)jdgaucho Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 03:08 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:52 AM)jdgaucho Wrote:  2-13 away from home and Syracuse played just one true road game ooc. That is unacceptable.

If you are going to throw out stats...make them correct.

Pardon me, they were a combined 2-11 in road and neutral games, with just one true road game. That's not enough.

SU OOC included S. Carolina (neutral), Wisconsin (away), UConn* (neutral), Georgetown* (home), St. John's* (home).

*Denotes rivalry game against a former conference-mate.

It's not like SU didn't play real teams, and/or didn't play real teams away from the Dome. I know not all of those teams had great years, but they all have great players, and rivalry games/familiarity is an important consideration.

Also, that's OOC. SU also played an ACC schedule.

The Orange OOC schedule had to be pretty soft, because even playing all those tough ACC games, your overall SOS (according to realtimeRPI) was 61. Compare that to other ACC schools that did make the tournament:

Duke ........... 3
UNC ............ 11
Louisville ...... 2
Virginia ........ 4
FSU ............. 17
Notre Dame ... 31
Wake Forest ....18
Miami .............34
VT .................. 65

Syracuse's overall SOS is way worse than all other ACC tournament teams, except for VT. And VT went 22-10, not 18-14, and beat Syracuse as well.

Syracuse was killed by your old Big East rivals. They killed you because (a) all three were weak, so they hurt your overall SOS and RPI, and (b) you lost to them as well. So the difference between VT and Cuse was those three losses to Georgetown, UConn, and St Johns. Three very winnable games. Heck, win just two of them, probably even just one, and you get in. But you lost all three.

So in the end, the blame is on Syracuse.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2017 01:23 PM by quo vadis.)
03-14-2017 01:17 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Biggest snubs
(03-13-2017 10:00 PM)Downtown Shocker Brown Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 08:30 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  My biggest surprises:

1) No real snubs. Usually, I am outraged that some team X didn't make the dance, but not this time. Sure, you can make an argument for a few, like Cuse and Illinois State, but you can also easily make an argument against them. E.g., I saw the ESPN talking heads this weekend saying Syracuse would get in but I didn't believe it, IMO they had to do some damage in the ACC tournament to make it and they bombed out.

2) Duke as the overall national #8? Duke has the most talent and now they are healthy. IMO, they are as likely to win the national title as anyone, and they just won the ACC tournament. They should have been the top #2 seed. Villanova got screwed by having Duke in their region.

3) Wichita State as a #10 seed? This is a 30-win team that played a decent schedule. Should have been a 5 or 6 seed. Dayton got screwed having to face them early.

4) SMU as a #6? That's disrespect to the AAC. Very good team all year long. This team will beat Baylor and make the Sweet 16 before losing to Duke. Should have been a #4 seed.

One last point: The committee did UNC a favor by making them a #1 seed, but then slammed them with the toughest region. Their region includes UCLA and Kentucky, two teams fully capable of winning the national title, no other region has 3 true title contenders. Brutal stuff. It means UNC will almost surely play a Final-4 level opponent in the regional final.

Kenpom Rankings:

1. UNC: 3
2. Kentucky: 4
3. UCLA: 18
4. Butler: 26
5. Minnesota: 33
6. Cincinnati: 22
7. Dayton: 36
8. Arkansas: 38
9. Seton Hall: 53
10. Wichita State: 8

I saw RPI and other rankings that includes what if D2 schools were D1? Some of the D2 schools does have a better SoS than several D1 schools. Some are close to the top 100.
03-15-2017 03:48 AM
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