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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #21
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
I wonder if conferences could do a merger for media exposure and all that? Even though it might be less, but you do have the live streaming on the Internet. Imagine if you can get UTEP to come in with New Mexico State, plus the MWC, Big Sky, WAC, WCC, Summit, Big West, GNAC, RMAC, West Texas A&M, Fort Hays State and so forth. You do get more content on tv. D2 schools would jump for a chance to play games on the weeknights like Thursday nights. D2 could not bring in the viewers unless they are connected with a D1 conference in a way. Imagine how that group will be with the top basketball programs from all the D1 conferences, and some D2 schools will be. That could give Hawaii some close by home games from Chaminade, Hawaii-Hilo, Hawaii Pacific and a school adding sports right now, Hawaii-West Oahu. West Oahu said they would like to add football. Imagine Hawaii Vs Hawaii-West Oahu down the road? Plus, you do get to play a local team that are close by with fans coming to buy tickets to offset the costs. Eastern Washington, Idaho, Idaho State, Central Washington, NW Nazarene, Utah State, BYU, Weber State, Utah Valley, Gonzaga and if College of Idaho moves back up. Plus you have Simon Fraser, Alaska schools, Western Washington, Seattle, Seattle Pacific, Saint Martins, Western Oregon, Portland and the NAIA schools from that area. California, Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, southern Utah and Colorado schools could play in their regional setups which includes the schools like UTEP, West Texas A&M, Angelo State, Colorado State-Pueblo, Fort Hays State.
Montana, Dakotas, Nebraska, Kansas, Iowa, Minnesota and northern Missouri schools could find a common grounds as well.
03-12-2017 11:41 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #22
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-12-2017 09:48 AM)TripleA Wrote:  I don't see the advantage of the crazy start times just to make about $200K a year.

Very, very easy: exposure on national television.

Believe me, your presidents get it. And that's why this is just saber rattling.


Don't believe any message board poster, even for a millisecond, that the MWC is seriously considering giving up national TV for internet streaming only. That's laughable, and absurd.

That would signal that the MWC is a DII conference, well behind even the MAC and Sun Belt.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2017 12:10 PM by MplsBison.)
03-12-2017 12:09 PM
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Post: #23
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-12-2017 12:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Believe me, your presidents get it. And that's why this is just saber rattling.

Saber rattling for what purpose? Those MWC start times aren't getting changed.
(This post was last modified: 03-12-2017 12:38 PM by BigEastHomer.)
03-12-2017 12:38 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #24
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-12-2017 12:38 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  Those MWC start times aren't getting changed.

No, of course not. Those times are simply the effect of the geographic position of the MWC and its order down on the pecking order.

But ESPN/whoever will throw them a couple more bones, and the presidents will gladly accept it with a "thank you very much!".
03-12-2017 12:49 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #25
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
It also depends on who MWC play that ESPN would show in the daytime.
BYU vs Boise State
PAC 12 team vs a MWC team that wins.
The lesser teams in MWC can't find a better time slot.
03-12-2017 01:48 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #26
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-12-2017 12:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-12-2017 09:48 AM)TripleA Wrote:  I don't see the advantage of the crazy start times just to make about $200K a year.

Very, very easy: exposure on national television.

Believe me, your presidents get it. And that's why this is just saber rattling.


Don't believe any message board poster, even for a millisecond, that the MWC is seriously considering giving up national TV for internet streaming only. That's laughable, and absurd.

That would signal that the MWC is a DII conference, well behind even the MAC and Sun Belt.

Except what national exposure is there when games are starting at 10 pm/11 pm cst/est?

One thing that is happening now and will be more prevalent in the very near future is that cell data plans are becoming unlimited and no cap for high speed. That will change the dynamics of how people watch sports and TV. With no need for cable or even home internet, ESPN watch and ESPN 3 won't capture that increasing market because they require a cable/satellite subscription.

In addition, students now and even a few years ago hardly subscribe to a cable or satellite TV.
03-12-2017 09:49 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #27
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  One thing that is happening now and will be more prevalent in the very near future is that cell data plans are becoming unlimited and no cap for high speed.

That is absolutely not happening now, nor will it ever.

Read the fine print. Even land-line service does not provide infinite data per month. At some ___ GB, you start paying a fee.


The following axiom should serve these types of discussions well going forward: if it costs land-line ISP providers $X per GB delivered, then it costs wireless service provides $N*X per GB delivered, where N is some positive number that could well be in the hundreds, or higher! Don't know it exactly, but you get the idea.


It's just so laughable that some people actually believe all land-line service to people's homes (let alone businesses) will vaporize into thin air in the next 10 years, replaced entirely by phones.

Zero percent chance.


(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  ESPN watch and ESPN 3 won't capture that increasing market because they require a cable/satellite subscription.

WatchESPN is just an app for devices, and I'm pretty sure they already have iOS and Android apps. Anyone with the appropriate login can use that app to access ESPN/2/U/News content as well as ESPN3 content.

Why would that be any different in your mythical "all wireless" world??
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 10:15 AM by MplsBison.)
03-13-2017 10:14 AM
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Post: #28
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 10:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  One thing that is happening now and will be more prevalent in the very near future is that cell data plans are becoming unlimited and no cap for high speed.

That is absolutely not happening now, nor will it ever.

Wrong. Heard of binge-on? Streaming Hulu, Netflix, FoxSportsGo, WatchESPN, Youtube don't affect your monthly data allowance whatsoever.
03-13-2017 10:28 AM
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #29
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
Unlimited cell plans do have restrictions. You get the highest speed for how ever many GB's are included in your plan. They then slow down your speed to 3g type levels which make streaming certain video hard. Services like Netflix that pay your carrier a fee are excluded from data usage but you will end up paying that to Netflix at some point in increased subscription fees
03-13-2017 10:31 AM
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Hood-rich Offline
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Post: #30
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 10:31 AM)mj4life Wrote:  Unlimited cell plans do have restrictions. You get the highest speed for how ever many GB's are included in your plan. They then slow down your speed to 3g type levels which make streaming certain video hard. Services like Netflix that pay your carrier a fee are excluded from data usage but you will end up paying that to Netflix at some point in increased subscription fees

That is 100% correct except in the case of a special deal like T-mobile has where they aren't counting the most popular streaming services towards your total data usage.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 10:34 AM by Hood-rich.)
03-13-2017 10:33 AM
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mj4life Offline
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Post: #31
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 10:33 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 10:31 AM)mj4life Wrote:  Unlimited cell plans do have restrictions. You get the highest speed for how ever many GB's are included in your plan. They then slow down your speed to 3g type levels which make streaming certain video hard. Services like Netflix that pay your carrier a fee are excluded from data usage but you will end up paying that to Netflix at some point in increased subscription fees

That is 100% correct except in the case of a special deal like T-mobile has where they aren't counting the most popular streaming services towards your total data usage.

Those services are paying or will be paying a fee for this at some point.
03-13-2017 10:40 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #32
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 10:28 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  Streaming Hulu, Netflix, FoxSportsGo, WatchESPN, Youtube don't affect your monthly data allowance whatsoever.

Two possibilities:

1) you're wrong, read the fine print.

2) if you truly could leave your phone plugged in, streaming 24/7 all month long from their towers, for zero surcharge ... well then that's because this is just a temporary promo. Rest assured, they can't afford that if any significant percentage of their customers start pulling a lot of streaming from their towers.
03-13-2017 10:57 AM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #33
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 10:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  One thing that is happening now and will be more prevalent in the very near future is that cell data plans are becoming unlimited and no cap for high speed.

That is absolutely not happening now, nor will it ever.

Read the fine print. Even land-line service does not provide infinite data per month. At some ___ GB, you start paying a fee.


The following axiom should serve these types of discussions well going forward: if it costs land-line ISP providers $X per GB delivered, then it costs wireless service provides $N*X per GB delivered, where N is some positive number that could well be in the hundreds, or higher! Don't know it exactly, but you get the idea.


It's just so laughable that some people actually believe all land-line service to people's homes (let alone businesses) will vaporize into thin air in the next 10 years, replaced entirely by phones.

Zero percent chance.


(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  ESPN watch and ESPN 3 won't capture that increasing market because they require a cable/satellite subscription.

WatchESPN is just an app for devices, and I'm pretty sure they already have iOS and Android apps. Anyone with the appropriate login can use that app to access ESPN/2/U/News content as well as ESPN3 content.

Why would that be any different in your mythical "all wireless" world??

That's true. But once the towers are built--they cost the same weather they deliver at full capacity or half capacity. So, the base rates may go up to pay for the new bigger capacity, but there really is no basis to charge for higher usage.

Basically, its the same with your local phone company land line. Do they care how many local calls you make or how long they last? It doesn't matter to them. The expense is building the line to your house. Once its built---your level of usage doesn't cost them any more or less.

That said, where you might see caps coming into play is when the towers begin to get close to bandwidth capacity and the time nears for another capacity upgrade. At that point, the conservation of bandwidth might be necessary until its clear a capacity upgrade will be profitable. Im pretty sure that's why those capacity limits are in the current contract---but are not enforced.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 11:14 AM by Attackcoog.)
03-13-2017 11:09 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #34
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 10:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  One thing that is happening now and will be more prevalent in the very near future is that cell data plans are becoming unlimited and no cap for high speed.

That is absolutely not happening now, nor will it ever.

Read the fine print. Even land-line service does not provide infinite data per month. At some ___ GB, you start paying a fee.


The following axiom should serve these types of discussions well going forward: if it costs land-line ISP providers $X per GB delivered, then it costs wireless service provides $N*X per GB delivered, where N is some positive number that could well be in the hundreds, or higher! Don't know it exactly, but you get the idea.


It's just so laughable that some people actually believe all land-line service to people's homes (let alone businesses) will vaporize into thin air in the next 10 years, replaced entirely by phones.

Zero percent chance.


(03-12-2017 09:49 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  ESPN watch and ESPN 3 won't capture that increasing market because they require a cable/satellite subscription.

WatchESPN is just an app for devices, and I'm pretty sure they already have iOS and Android apps. Anyone with the appropriate login can use that app to access ESPN/2/U/News content as well as ESPN3 content.

Why would that be any different in your mythical "all wireless" world??
Dude....its starting already.
https://www.verizonwireless.com/plans/verizon-plan/
Ok sure you get 22Gb of data/line at LTE speed before the prioritize customers during network congestion, but if there isn't any, then you still get LTE speed past that. That is unheard of and soon ATT, T-Mobile with up them with a larger data cap and then it will basically become unlimited.
With the compression for HD video for mobile, it will take while reach that 22Gb vs a land-line internet that doesn't.

I stream a lot with my ATT DSL Internet plan and ATT up the cap so much that I don't even reach now. They used to put a 250 Gb and charge extra for going over that if it was consistent for 3 months. Now just 1 1/2 years ago they upped it to a 1Tb cap. As much streaming my household does with PSVUE/Netflix/Internet videos etc...I don't even come close. The most I have reached is 350Gb for the month, it is basically unlimited.

Here in Amarillo, TX I have 2 choice of wireless internet for my home with unlimited data.
http://plainsinternet.com/residential/

http://amarillowireless.net/amarillo/

Sure you may not get the 50mpbs+ speeds (...yet), but they are new companies that are offering comparable to DSL speeds via cell towers. Competition will eventually bring prices down and speeds up. So yes, if wireless cellular is becoming more available, what do you think the big cell companies are offering/or will be able to offer in the future.

I'm not saying 5 years from now land-line internet will disappear completely, it will still be around but the greater of percentage of customers with only a phone data plan will be increasing and 5 years from now Verizon et. al. will be competing to offer better and better plans with higher caps/speed that it won't be as necessary to have wi-fi from home or public spaces.
OTA TV won't be going anywhere also, in fact, with the cord cutting, they are getting more viewers available. When some 20 year old wants to watch a show on Netflix, Hulu or HBO...they'll just watch wherever they are from their phone. If they are at home they'll just mirror it to the TV.

Oh...and as for your Watch ESPN comment...yes they have apps for iOS and Andriod, except in order to access the games, you need to login with your cable provider....how does that happen when you don't have cable?
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 11:18 AM by MWC Tex.)
03-13-2017 11:10 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #35
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Once its built---your level of usage doesn't cost them any more or less.

This is not exactly correct, but true enough. I get your point.


(03-13-2017 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  That said, where you might see caps coming into play is when the towers begin to get close to bandwidth capacity and the time nears for another capacity upgrade. At that point, the conservation of bandwidth might be necessary until its clear a capacity upgrade will be profitable.

My point is that wireless capacity (in terms of serving top speed data throughput to each of X customers in a given city, any time those customers request to pull something) absolutely no where near what it would need to be to completely replace land-line service.

I can't possibly see it going that way, any time soon, probably not in our lifetimes. The two will grow closer together and compliment each other, for some time. Would not surprise me at all to see giant mergers between Comcast/AT&T, Verizon/Charter/Dish, etc.

They'll say "this is the new game: providing data".


(03-13-2017 11:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I'm not saying 5 years from now land-line internet will disappear completely, it will still be around but the greater of percentage of customers with only a phone data plan will be increasing and 5 years from now Verizon et. al. will be competing to offer better and better plans with higher caps/speed that it won't be as necessary to have wi-fi from home or public spaces.

This is fine ... just not five years. More like 25 years, 50 years ... something like that.

(03-13-2017 11:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  how does that happen when you don't have cable?

Million dollar question.

ESPN doesn't want to have to answer that, right now. It will be some time before they're either forced to consider it, or will have a good idea of if they can shelve the idea entirely (due to rising customers from streaming).
03-13-2017 11:26 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #36
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 11:26 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Once its built---your level of usage doesn't cost them any more or less.

This is not exactly correct, but true enough. I get your point.


(03-13-2017 11:09 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  That said, where you might see caps coming into play is when the towers begin to get close to bandwidth capacity and the time nears for another capacity upgrade. At that point, the conservation of bandwidth might be necessary until its clear a capacity upgrade will be profitable.

My point is that wireless capacity (in terms of serving top speed data throughput to each of X customers in a given city, any time those customers request to pull something) absolutely no where near what it would need to be to completely replace land-line service.

I can't possibly see it going that way, any time soon, probably not in our lifetimes. The two will grow closer together and compliment each other, for some time. Would not surprise me at all to see giant mergers between Comcast/AT&T, Verizon/Charter/Dish, etc.

They'll say "this is the new game: providing data".


(03-13-2017 11:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  I'm not saying 5 years from now land-line internet will disappear completely, it will still be around but the greater of percentage of customers with only a phone data plan will be increasing and 5 years from now Verizon et. al. will be competing to offer better and better plans with higher caps/speed that it won't be as necessary to have wi-fi from home or public spaces.

This is fine ... just not five years. More like 25 years, 50 years ... something like that.

(03-13-2017 11:10 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  how does that happen when you don't have cable?

Million dollar question.

ESPN doesn't want to have to answer that, right now. It will be some time before they're either forced to consider it, or will have a good idea of if they can shelve the idea entirely (due to rising customers from streaming).

It will be quicker than that but I'm saying 5 years from now there will be a large significant portion of phone only users that won't have cable or satellite that for this this topic of discussion can't be ignored by the MW or any other conference for that matter has they are going to view sporting events. Because that is only going to increase each year.
And in my other post on the other 'YouTube' thread, 5G is coming with deployment in 2019. ATT launching 5G in Austin and Indianapolis later this year...probably as a trial run for the standard being hammer out by March 2018.

I have enjoyed the discussion with you....
03-13-2017 11:42 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #37
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
In five years you could certainly see a statistically significant increase. Like, going from 1% to 3% is an increase of 300%.

But certainly in no way whatsoever justifies the MWC completely severing ties with national TV distribution networks, to run their own internet streaming-only service. That would be ludicrous.
03-13-2017 11:49 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #38
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 11:49 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  In five years you could certainly see a statistically significant increase. Like, going from 1% to 3% is an increase of 300%.

But certainly in no way whatsoever justifies the MWC completely severing ties with national TV distribution networks, to run their own internet streaming-only service. That would be ludicrous.

I don't think there won't be a national TV presence for some games, as maybe BeIN or NBC could jump in (or selling a game or two ESPN or CBSSN), but there isn't a national presence for the MW as it stands now with ESPN or CBS with games starting at 10pm cst/11 pm est on ESPN because nobody is watching us that late. CBSSN isn't in enough households for a national presence and to add on top of that, still have late start times for the convenience of ESPN and CBSSN to fill content to their needs.
But for at least the 2nd and 3rd tier games, those can be streamed on the digital network.
03-13-2017 12:07 PM
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Attackcoog Offline
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Post: #39
RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 12:07 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(03-13-2017 11:49 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  In five years you could certainly see a statistically significant increase. Like, going from 1% to 3% is an increase of 300%.

But certainly in no way whatsoever justifies the MWC completely severing ties with national TV distribution networks, to run their own internet streaming-only service. That would be ludicrous.

I don't think there won't be a national TV presence for some games, as maybe BeIN or NBC could jump in (or selling a game or two ESPN or CBSSN), but there isn't a national presence for the MW as it stands now with ESPN or CBS with games starting at 10pm cst/11 pm est on ESPN because nobody is watching us that late. CBSSN isn't in enough households for a national presence and to add on top of that, still have late start times for the convenience of ESPN and CBSSN to fill content to their needs.
But for at least the 2nd and 3rd tier games, those can be streamed on the digital network.

Personally, I think they wont take much of hit if any on money or exposure. Either ESPN pays more and makes it worth the MW eating those late start times--or other things happen. ESPN gets a small package of late starts and pays nearly the same price as now (cuz they don't have anywhere else to get cheap FBS 9:30 starts) and the MW places games on other national platforms like NBC Sports, BeIn, and CBS-Sports Network (FS-2 might even be an option) at a reasonable price. That makes up virtually all their current income. The rest of the inventory slides to regional networks and local OTA, with either exclusive or mirror availability on the MWDN. Bottom line---neither exposure or income are likely to suffer much. In fact, largely staying out of those 9:30 PM west coast windows where nobody is really watching might end up INCREASING the exposure as more people might actually be awake to see more MW football.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 12:47 PM by Attackcoog.)
03-13-2017 12:44 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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RE: mwc to consider cutting the cord
(03-13-2017 12:44 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Personally, I think they wont take much of hit if any on money or exposure. Either ESPN pays more and makes it worth the MW eating those late start times--or other things happen. ESPN gets a small package of late starts and pays nearly the same price as now (cuz they don't have anywhere else to get cheap FBS 9:30 starts) and the MW places games on other national platforms like NBC Sports, BeIn, and CBS-Sports Network (FS-2 might even be an option) at a reasonable price. That makes up virtually all their current income. The rest of the inventory slides to regional networks and local OTA, with either exclusive or mirror availability on the MWDN. Bottom line---neither exposure or income are likely to suffer much. In fact, largely staying out of those 9:30 PM west coast windows where nobody is really watching might end up INCREASING the exposure as more people might actually be awake to see more MW football.

You're dismissing the externalities of severing ties with a national media partner. The MWC considers itself at the level of the AAC, not the Sun Belt.

Don't think MWC presidents are that big of risk takers.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2017 12:54 PM by MplsBison.)
03-13-2017 12:53 PM
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