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Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
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asuwon Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-02-2017 08:58 PM)Michael in Raleigh Wrote:  I'm not seeing the benefit to the Sun Belt. If schools individually want to schedule Liberty H&H, so be it, but I don't see why the entire league should have some agreement with them.

I agree.
03-03-2017 12:48 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-03-2017 11:21 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 10:44 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 08:38 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  "This scheduling agreement could allow the Flames to play 4-6 games per season against another G5 conference, such as the Conference USA or Sun Belt, and then schedule another 4-6 games against other Independent schools and Power 5 opponents with 1 FCS game per season."

Apparently Liberty is trying to get a Notre Dame/ACC agreement. The SBC and CUSA are being the main ones talked about. Would y'all be interested in this? Would this be essentially a tryout for them to get into the conference if needed later on? I'm just looking to see what the pros and cons in yalls mind would be of agreeing to this.

Why would we agree to this? There's nothing in it for our teams. Nothing. At all. Their TV network is a big ole nothing. Why take the reputational hit of being aligned with LU? I don't get the benefit.

Why are we willing to help Liberty when we aren't willing to help out Idaho or NMSU? Destroy the programs that helped us out and help out the program that wont hire Gays or Jews? Absolutely ridiculous.

I'll be rather unhappy if USA or the Belt affirms LU's discriminatory practices and subjects our fans to discriminatory treatment.

There should be no alignment (which is an endorsement) of Liberty's discrimination by the Sun Belt Conference. If a member institution wishes to subject its students, faculty, athletes, fans and staff to LU, that's between them and their fans (and their LGBT and aligned student, faculty, alumni, and student groups - by the way - expect them to be involved if this happens).

Any school working with LU is affirming keeping Jews and Gays out of employment and participation in FBS athletics and employment. Full stop.

Again, if we're giving away 'scheduling alliances', I'd argue that NMSU is more deserving, UMass can probably offer more (basketball), and LU cant offer much to us.

I'm not a huge supporter of Liberty, nor am I a religious person, but your version of Liberty sounds very inaccurate, much like that Southern Miss fan that was on here recently saying Liberty is racist and hates black people.

What evidence is there of this homosexual bias against any students, athletes, or faculty, besides the things that the long deceased Jerry Falwell said 10+ years ago.

As a matter of fact, read THIS article written by a gay Liberty student, who actually describes how he thought Liberty was going to be this major anti-gay school, but he actually wound up enjoying his time there. Many of the faculty members, which were pro-marriage/pro-life/conservative people, showed nothing but love and support for him, despite him coming out as gay publicly to other Christian students and teachers.

This version of Liberty that some of you people come up with is so far off that it's comical. You need to get the correct information from unbiased sources before coming to a conclusion on how Liberty University runs their school.

(03-03-2017 10:34 AM)HighlandsApp Wrote:  I disagree. Based on actions, Liberty is closer to being the Official School of The American Taliban than the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

You must not know the real-life difference between the Taliban and Liberty.

You will search in vain for me calling LU racist. It might have been at one point, but it isn't now. You will also search in vain for me calling LU not a real school. People who go to LU's campus (no idea about this online mess) do graduate with degrees that are comparable in most ways to traditional college degrees. Its a real school. I've worked with grads from there. But it is a discriminatory school where the benefits are only open to a small subset of the population. That's my beef.

So as far as facts go, can you point to any married LGBT or non-Christian employed in ANY permanent position at LU (other than at two tiny programs where they can't have stated bans because of accreditation requirments (and even then, do they have any non-Christian/married LGBT employees even there). Yes, a student wasn't kicked out immediately (but did he graduate?). Yes one LGBT person was hired as a contractor for a couple of months to do choreography. But that isn't permanent employment.

I look forward to the day when I have no non-athletic performance argument against associating with LU. Not that hard to do, just change a few policies (that they apparently have made to other programs - but not the athletic department - in order to gain accreditation - so they apparently don't feel that those policies are vital to their mission at the Allied Health graduate program)

Just as you get upset when people conflate Bob Jones and Liberty, don't conflate me with other posters, who might have other axes to grind vis a vis Liberty.
(This post was last modified: 03-03-2017 02:05 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-03-2017 01:57 PM
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Tealblood Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
Bottom line this is going to be hard and expensive for Liberty

Part of the deal is they have to play 5 FBS games at home beginning in 2019 most people are booked pretty far out as opposed to FCS who might have money games going out a few years most is pretty fluid

Basically they can't be "road warriors" and play into FBS
03-06-2017 03:20 PM
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rokamortis Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-06-2017 03:20 PM)Tealblood Wrote:  Bottom line this is going to be hard and expensive for Liberty

Part of the deal is they have to play 5 FBS games at home beginning in 2019 most people are booked pretty far out as opposed to FCS who might have money games going out a few years most is pretty fluid

Basically they can't be "road warriors" and play into FBS

That they have less than 2 years to schedule a full FBS schedule with home games is pretty tough. Could they ask for a delay or is the NCAA making a point? Telling Liberty to put up or shut up?
(This post was last modified: 03-06-2017 03:39 PM by rokamortis.)
03-06-2017 03:39 PM
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Paul of Troy Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-03-2017 11:21 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 10:44 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 08:38 AM)Ewglenn Wrote:  "This scheduling agreement could allow the Flames to play 4-6 games per season against another G5 conference, such as the Conference USA or Sun Belt, and then schedule another 4-6 games against other Independent schools and Power 5 opponents with 1 FCS game per season."

Apparently Liberty is trying to get a Notre Dame/ACC agreement. The SBC and CUSA are being the main ones talked about. Would y'all be interested in this? Would this be essentially a tryout for them to get into the conference if needed later on? I'm just looking to see what the pros and cons in yalls mind would be of agreeing to this.

Why would we agree to this? There's nothing in it for our teams. Nothing. At all. Their TV network is a big ole nothing. Why take the reputational hit of being aligned with LU? I don't get the benefit.

Why are we willing to help Liberty when we aren't willing to help out Idaho or NMSU? Destroy the programs that helped us out and help out the program that wont hire Gays or Jews? Absolutely ridiculous.

I'll be rather unhappy if USA or the Belt affirms LU's discriminatory practices and subjects our fans to discriminatory treatment.

There should be no alignment (which is an endorsement) of Liberty's discrimination by the Sun Belt Conference. If a member institution wishes to subject its students, faculty, athletes, fans and staff to LU, that's between them and their fans (and their LGBT and aligned student, faculty, alumni, and student groups - by the way - expect them to be involved if this happens).

Any school working with LU is affirming keeping Jews and Gays out of employment and participation in FBS athletics and employment. Full stop.

Again, if we're giving away 'scheduling alliances', I'd argue that NMSU is more deserving, UMass can probably offer more (basketball), and LU cant offer much to us.

I'm not a huge supporter of Liberty, nor am I a religious person, but your version of Liberty sounds very inaccurate, much like that Southern Miss fan that was on here recently saying Liberty is racist and hates black people.

What evidence is there of this homosexual bias against any students, athletes, or faculty, besides the things that the long deceased Jerry Falwell said 10+ years ago.

As a matter of fact, read THIS article written by a gay Liberty student, who actually describes how he thought Liberty was going to be this major anti-gay school, but he actually wound up enjoying his time there. Many of the faculty members, which were pro-marriage/pro-life/conservative people, showed nothing but love and support for him, despite him coming out as gay publicly to other Christian students and teachers.

This version of Liberty that some of you people come up with is so far off that it's comical. You need to get the correct information from unbiased sources before coming to a conclusion on how Liberty University runs their school.

(03-03-2017 10:34 AM)HighlandsApp Wrote:  I disagree. Based on actions, Liberty is closer to being the Official School of The American Taliban than the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.

You must not know the real-life difference between the Taliban and Liberty.

You're delusional if you think an Evangelical school supports homosexuals. Especially so if one article written by a supposed real or homosexual person convinces you of it.
03-07-2017 07:29 AM
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runamuck Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-02-2017 09:54 AM)JCGSU Wrote:  Who cares either way. CoastalAlum you need to slow down with the education swipes at Liberty, same goes for just about all Belt schools. They are being judged nationally not regionally like Coastal. GaSt post graduate programs are about the only that has any bragging rights in this conference.

slow your roll a little. I doubt if any UTA grads would agree with that grad school assessment.
03-07-2017 08:16 AM
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FloridaJag Offline
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Post: #67
Exclamation RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
LU should be negotiating with BYU, UMASS & Army

BYU has three games available in 2019.

UMass has 7 games available in 2019.

Army has 4 games available in 2019

Virginia and Virginia Tech have some games available in 2019

Coastal has 1 game available in 2019

ULM has 1 game available in 2019


That is six FBS games if they can navigate the negotiations.
03-07-2017 08:29 AM
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lance99 Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-07-2017 08:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  LU should be negotiating with BYU, UMASS & Army

BYU has three games available in 2019.

UMass has 7 games available in 2019.

Army has 4 games available in 2019

Virginia and Virginia Tech have some games available in 2019

Coastal has 1 game available in 2019

ULM has 1 game available in 2019


That is six FBS games if they can navigate the negotiations.

The issue for them is if they must have 5 home games starting in 2019, the only School on this list that would travel there would be UMASS and maybe Army, assuming they have no other options.

Without even looking, I see only 3 if NMST is available IMHO, and assuming the two schools I mentioned.
03-07-2017 12:37 PM
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ericsaid Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-07-2017 12:37 PM)lance99 Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 08:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  LU should be negotiating with BYU, UMASS & Army

BYU has three games available in 2019.

UMass has 7 games available in 2019.

Army has 4 games available in 2019

Virginia and Virginia Tech have some games available in 2019

Coastal has 1 game available in 2019

ULM has 1 game available in 2019


That is six FBS games if they can navigate the negotiations.

The issue for them is if they must have 5 home games starting in 2019, the only School on this list that would travel there would be UMASS and maybe Army, assuming they have no other options.

Without even looking, I see only 3 if NMST is available IMHO, and assuming the two schools I mentioned.

BYU and Virginia may travel to Lynchburg. The Coastal administration may travel to Liberty. Despite trying to leave the school behind, Coastal and Liberty have a rivalry of sorts and it would likely be of interest to both programs.
03-07-2017 12:51 PM
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mturn017 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-07-2017 12:51 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 12:37 PM)lance99 Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 08:29 AM)FloridaJag Wrote:  LU should be negotiating with BYU, UMASS & Army

BYU has three games available in 2019.

UMass has 7 games available in 2019.

Army has 4 games available in 2019

Virginia and Virginia Tech have some games available in 2019

Coastal has 1 game available in 2019

ULM has 1 game available in 2019


That is six FBS games if they can navigate the negotiations.

The issue for them is if they must have 5 home games starting in 2019, the only School on this list that would travel there would be UMASS and maybe Army, assuming they have no other options.

Without even looking, I see only 3 if NMST is available IMHO, and assuming the two schools I mentioned.

BYU and Virginia may travel to Lynchburg. The Coastal administration may travel to Liberty. Despite trying to leave the school behind, Coastal and Liberty have a rivalry of sorts and it would likely be of interest to both programs.

I don't see UVA playing in Lynchburg
03-07-2017 12:59 PM
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BurlingtonApp Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
I can't see any reason UVA or BYU would travel to Lynchburg.
03-07-2017 01:09 PM
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ericsaid Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-07-2017 01:09 PM)BurlingtonApp Wrote:  I can't see any reason UVA or BYU would travel to Lynchburg.

Why would Miami or UNC travel to Boone?
03-07-2017 05:55 PM
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Post: #73
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
BYU help UMASS by scheduling H/H. I would not be surprised if they help Liberty as well. Possibly 2 for 1. In theory, BYU would see this as easy wins.
03-07-2017 05:58 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-07-2017 05:55 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 01:09 PM)BurlingtonApp Wrote:  I can't see any reason UVA or BYU would travel to Lynchburg.

Why would Miami or UNC travel to Boone?

Miami got behind in scheduling. UNC doesn't want to travel out of state.

I could see where UVA or BYU could schedule at LU, but there might be a different view at those schools. UVa might wish to avoid playing too many instate schools (which is the prevailing view of P5 teams vs instate teams), BYU might not want to travel across the country.
03-08-2017 01:00 PM
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ericsaid Offline
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Post: #75
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-08-2017 01:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 05:55 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 01:09 PM)BurlingtonApp Wrote:  I can't see any reason UVA or BYU would travel to Lynchburg.

Why would Miami or UNC travel to Boone?

Miami got behind in scheduling. UNC doesn't want to travel out of state.

I could see where UVA or BYU could schedule at LU, but there might be a different view at those schools. UVa might wish to avoid playing too many instate schools (which is the prevailing view of P5 teams vs instate teams), BYU might not want to travel across the country.

Source for the bolded information please (speculation does not count).

Due to what would seem to be a very high ceiling for growth, Virginia would be ill advised to not schedule a game against Liberty. The program has really fallen behind and they now run the risk of falling behind to a G5 independent program. The evidence is in the beat down they took at the hands of Richmond last season.

BYU is playing UMass in Boston which renders the travel across the country point moot. For schools in the west but not on the coast, travel is always going to be needed.
03-08-2017 06:23 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-08-2017 06:23 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(03-08-2017 01:00 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 05:55 PM)ericsaid Wrote:  
(03-07-2017 01:09 PM)BurlingtonApp Wrote:  I can't see any reason UVA or BYU would travel to Lynchburg.

Why would Miami or UNC travel to Boone?

Miami got behind in scheduling. UNC doesn't want to travel out of state.

I could see where UVA or BYU could schedule at LU, but there might be a different view at those schools. UVa might wish to avoid playing too many instate schools (which is the prevailing view of P5 teams vs instate teams), BYU might not want to travel across the country.

Source for the bolded information please (speculation does not count).

Due to what would seem to be a very high ceiling for growth, Virginia would be ill advised to not schedule a game against Liberty. The program has really fallen behind and they now run the risk of falling behind to a G5 independent program. The evidence is in the beat down they took at the hands of Richmond last season.

BYU is playing UMass in Boston which renders the travel across the country point moot. For schools in the west but not on the coast, travel is always going to be needed.

I'd advise UVa to not play good FCS teams for a while. Schedule Presbyterian instead. The only point of a FCS home game is to rest your team a bit, get the win, and provide some extra ticket revenue for your team. They'll get plenty of hard games in the ACC. Playing AT a low end FBS? I don't see the appeal, but I suppose its possible.

BYU is playing in Boston, where there are LOTS of ties for the LDS church. Lots of teams want to play in Boston. Its a fun road game for the fans. And its reasonably easy (and inexpensive) to get to for many fans. Ever price a plane ticket into Lynchburg?
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2017 06:36 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-08-2017 06:35 PM
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Campaign4Liberty Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-02-2017 09:25 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  Unless they are writing the conference MASSIVE checks, there is absolutely zero to be gained from this. Obviously, it would benefit Liberty, but not the Sun Belt.

Being seen as a conference tied to Strayer / Devry / ITT Tech / Liberty does not help anyone's image, whether that is the Sun Belt or CUSA or the MAC or whoever.

And I speak from experience as a Coastal fan.

(PS: keep in mind that their fan base has been pretty clear in their opinion that the Sun Belt is beneath their lofty potential.)

Strayer...Devry...etc...yet the average fr. SAT score at Liberty is higher than the average Coastal fr. SAT score....ABA law school...med school receiving full accreditation in 2019...R3 national research institution...could go on and on...Instead of the tiresome ITT Tech references...How about you bring some hard data to the debate?
03-08-2017 10:26 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
(03-08-2017 10:26 PM)Campaign4Liberty Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 09:25 AM)CoastalAlum2011 Wrote:  Unless they are writing the conference MASSIVE checks, there is absolutely zero to be gained from this. Obviously, it would benefit Liberty, but not the Sun Belt.

Being seen as a conference tied to Strayer / Devry / ITT Tech / Liberty does not help anyone's image, whether that is the Sun Belt or CUSA or the MAC or whoever.

And I speak from experience as a Coastal fan.

(PS: keep in mind that their fan base has been pretty clear in their opinion that the Sun Belt is beneath their lofty potential.)

Strayer...Devry...etc...yet the average fr. SAT score at Liberty is higher than the average Coastal fr. SAT score....ABA law school...med school receiving full accreditation in 2019...R3 national research institution...could go on and on...Instead of the tiresome ITT Tech references...How about you bring some hard data to the debate?

LU is a real school (not sure about online or the Law school - which has had many many many issues) for many undergraduate disciplines, but one that excludes the contributions and talent of 80 percent of the world's population. And is it a medical school, or a DO school?
(This post was last modified: 03-08-2017 11:59 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-08-2017 11:12 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
Not that anyone asked, but I definitely think that Liberty is a very legitimate university for the most part. I'm sure there are a lot of smart kids who go there. D.O. or M.D., the med school there probably trains capable doctors.

As a biologist, though...and one that came from a conservative Christian family and had to slowly overcome the willful ignorance I was taught...I honestly just can't get past the focus on young-earth creationism. It's intellectually dishonest and, in my opinion, ultimately damaging not only to serious scientific progress, but to the practice of the Christian faith.

And before someone says something like, "Oh, Liberty just gives students all the information and lets them decide," it's hard to not feel like there's some, y'know, bias involved when this is a part of the university:

http://www.liberty.edu/academics/arts-sc.../creation/

Maybe that's way too narrow of a critique for me to be a holdout on fully "accepting" Liberty, but it's just too big of an elephant for me to ignore.

As for playing them? Sure. (We have a score to settle, after all.) But I wouldn't want any sort of conference affiliation.
03-09-2017 10:22 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Scheduling agreement with Liberty?
Are they really excluding people if the people don't want to be there? There are literally thousands of options for higher education. If Liberty wants to miss out on potential money from this 80% demographic you are speaking of then that's their loss.
03-09-2017 10:29 AM
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