(02-28-2017 11:12 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I can't believe anyone is even suggesting $5500 per month. That's to much. A UBI should be enough to help eliminate poverty and provide a certain amount of mental security. But it should never be enough that someone cold fully disengage from work. What I have seen suggested is something like $600.00-$1,000 per month per person with an additional $100.00-$200.00 per child. For a family of 4 that would be somewhere between $1400-$2400. Now this is with the elimination of the welfare system and social security.

$5500 a month is $66,000 a year. The median household income is $51,000 a year. So if it was a month instead of a year, it would be more than most make now.

(03-01-2017 10:02 AM)Centdukesfan Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 09:44 AM)fsquid Wrote:  automate truck drivers? Please no.

i mean its almost guaranteed to happen

They already do it. Its called freight trains with containers.

Seriously, Amazon is experimenting with using drones for deliveries.

lmgtfy:

https://www.google.com/search?client=ope...8&oe=UTF-8

semi autonimous means you still need a guy in the cab, yes?

(03-01-2017 11:23 AM)fsquid Wrote:  semi autonimous means you still need a guy in the cab, yes?

probably not

(03-01-2017 11:23 AM)fsquid Wrote:  semi autonimous means you still need a guy in the cab, yes?

Maybe at first. But within a few years the need will go away.

(03-01-2017 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 11:12 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I can't believe anyone is even suggesting $5500 per month. That's to much. A UBI should be enough to help eliminate poverty and provide a certain amount of mental security. But it should never be enough that someone cold fully disengage from work. What I have seen suggested is something like $600.00-$1,000 per month per person with an additional $100.00-$200.00 per child. For a family of 4 that would be somewhere between $1400-$2400. Now this is with the elimination of the welfare system and social security.

$5500 a month is $66,000 a year. The median household income is $51,000 a year. So if it was a month instead of a year, it would be more than most make now.

If the UBI is $66,000 a year then the new poverty level is $66,000 a year. You think a Big Mac is expensive at $15hr? Think what it will cost when EVERYONE has $5,500 a month burning a hole in their pocket.

(03-01-2017 04:17 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 11:12 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I can't believe anyone is even suggesting $5500 per month. That's to much. A UBI should be enough to help eliminate poverty and provide a certain amount of mental security. But it should never be enough that someone cold fully disengage from work. What I have seen suggested is something like $600.00-$1,000 per month per person with an additional $100.00-$200.00 per child. For a family of 4 that would be somewhere between $1400-$2400. Now this is with the elimination of the welfare system and social security.

$5500 a month is $66,000 a year. The median household income is $51,000 a year. So if it was a month instead of a year, it would be more than most make now.

If the UBI is $66,000 a year then the new poverty level is $66,000 a year. You think a Big Mac is expensive at $15hr? Think what it will cost when EVERYONE has $5,500 a month burning a hole in their pocket.

....and McDonald's has to pay $66K/yr to get anyone to work there when they don't have to. Then again, how hard is it for a robot to flip a burger and dispense a toppings kit to the customer?

(03-01-2017 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 11:12 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I can't believe anyone is even suggesting $5500 per month. That's to much. A UBI should be enough to help eliminate poverty and provide a certain amount of mental security. But it should never be enough that someone cold fully disengage from work. What I have seen suggested is something like $600.00-$1,000 per month per person with an additional $100.00-$200.00 per child. For a family of 4 that would be somewhere between $1400-$2400. Now this is with the elimination of the welfare system and social security.

$5500 a month is $66,000 a year. The median household income is $51,000 a year. So if it was a month instead of a year, it would be more than most make now.

In some places, $66,000 is like making $6,600 instead because of the cost of living is more expensive than in other places.

(03-01-2017 04:35 PM)Ohio Poly Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 04:17 PM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-01-2017 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(02-28-2017 11:12 PM)hawghiggs Wrote:  I can't believe anyone is even suggesting $5500 per month. That's to much. A UBI should be enough to help eliminate poverty and provide a certain amount of mental security. But it should never be enough that someone cold fully disengage from work. What I have seen suggested is something like $600.00-$1,000 per month per person with an additional $100.00-$200.00 per child. For a family of 4 that would be somewhere between $1400-$2400. Now this is with the elimination of the welfare system and social security.

$5500 a month is $66,000 a year. The median household income is $51,000 a year. So if it was a month instead of a year, it would be more than most make now.

If the UBI is $66,000 a year then the new poverty level is $66,000 a year. You think a Big Mac is expensive at $15hr? Think what it will cost when EVERYONE has $5,500 a month burning a hole in their pocket.

....and McDonald's has to pay $66K/yr to get anyone to work there when they don't have to. Then again, how hard is it for a robot to flip a burger and dispense a toppings kit to the customer?

Not very. But someone is going to have to repair everything. That takes a person.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAkhDZqx9k

Thoughts?

(03-02-2017 08:56 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAkhDZqx9k

Thoughts?

Drop all entitlement programs and I'd be fine with it. No bailouts either.

(03-02-2017 08:59 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:56 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAkhDZqx9k

Thoughts?

Drop all entitlement programs and I'd be fine with it. No bailouts either.

You mean, when they spend all their allotment for existing on the Lottery, Cigs, and Alcohol, they can't come back and get more so they can buy food to feed themselves and their family??? Can't believe you hate hungry kids........

(03-02-2017 09:30 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:59 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:56 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAkhDZqx9k

Thoughts?

Drop all entitlement programs and I'd be fine with it. No bailouts either.

You mean, when they spend all their allotment for existing on the Lottery, Cigs, and Alcohol, they can't come back and get more so they can buy food to feed themselves and their family??? Can't believe you hate hungry kids........

I agree that this will happen in some cases, and that some are ignorant Shiites. What I choose to look at when I think of a UBI. Is the fact that it would allow mom to return to the home. No longer would families be forced into sending children into the daycare system.

(03-02-2017 10:05 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 09:30 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:59 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:56 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAkhDZqx9k

Thoughts?

Drop all entitlement programs and I'd be fine with it. No bailouts either.

You mean, when they spend all their allotment for existing on the Lottery, Cigs, and Alcohol, they can't come back and get more so they can buy food to feed themselves and their family??? Can't believe you hate hungry kids........

I agree that this will happen in some cases, and that some are ignorant Shiites. What I choose to look at when I think of a UBI. Is the fact that it would allow mom to return to the home. No longer would families be forced into sending children into the daycare system.

So, you really thing that taxing everyone enough so that everyone gets $66K from the government is the way to go?

I mean, I'm all for tax reform, but I'm not ready to have the government "supply" everyone with $66k per year to live on. I just believe that humans behave in certain ways because of incentives (what's best for them).

I can't see how this plan incentivizes positive behavior.

No way should this be $66K. That's completely absurd. I'd go with $15-20K or so for an individual then something reasonable for families.

Guys I misunderstood. It's $5500 a year.

However. As someone who lived through Katrina and the FEMA handout debacle, it's not a good idea. FEMA gave money to displaced people to pay for living, food, etc. Some people pissed it away on TVs, Louis Vuitton bags, xBoxes, etc. Then cried when they were evicted from their hotels or didn't have food. Saw it. Local churches opened their doors, gave them places to sleep and free food, then claimed it was not good enough or destroyed the living space. I'm not a fan of passing out free money.

(03-02-2017 10:13 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 10:05 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 09:30 AM)Crebman Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:59 AM)Hood-rich Wrote:  

(03-02-2017 08:56 AM)hawghiggs Wrote:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMAkhDZqx9k

Thoughts?

Drop all entitlement programs and I'd be fine with it. No bailouts either.

You mean, when they spend all their allotment for existing on the Lottery, Cigs, and Alcohol, they can't come back and get more so they can buy food to feed themselves and their family??? Can't believe you hate hungry kids........

I agree that this will happen in some cases, and that some are ignorant Shiites. What I choose to look at when I think of a UBI. Is the fact that it would allow mom to return to the home. No longer would families be forced into sending children into the daycare system.

So, you really thing that taxing everyone enough so that everyone gets $66K from the government is the way to go?

I mean, I'm all for tax reform, but I'm not ready to have the government "supply" everyone with $66k per year to live on. I just believe that humans behave in certain ways because of incentives (what's best for them).

I can't see how this plan incentivizes positive behavior.

I've never suggested 66k per year. Maybe a 1/4th or 1/5th of that number. A lot of that money we are already taxed and spending on social programs currently. So the idea really isn't that far fetched of a notion. My motivation behind this is really based on fear. It is estimated that by 2030 more than 2 Billion jobs will be lost to automation world wide. To me that is frightening. If we don't get the ball rolling now. What will the world look like? What will the crime rate be? What would we be spending on social programs. If we don't do something?

(03-02-2017 10:28 AM)gdunn Wrote:  Guys I misunderstood. It's $5500 a year.

However. As someone who lived through Katrina and the FEMA handout debacle, it's not a good idea. FEMA gave money to displaced people to pay for living, food, etc. Some people pissed it away on TVs, Louis Vuitton bags, xBoxes, etc. Then cried when they were evicted from their hotels or didn't have food. Saw it. Local churches opened their doors, gave them places to sleep and free food, then claimed it was not good enough or destroyed the living space. I'm not a fan of passing out free money.

You can't fix stupid. Some will be like that. Others would use it as a way to change their existence in a positive manner.