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'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
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TexasTerror Offline
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'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
You know... the ones after the NCAA and NIT/WNIT.

In the next two weeks, we should begin seeing articles detailing how much the College Insider Tournament, Vegas 16 (or is it 8?), College Basketball Invitational and Women's Basketball Invitational cost teams, universities to participate in them.

As fans... do you like seeing your school(s) spend the money to play in these tournaments? Do you feel there is a decent investment if you have a team full of underclassmen that could utilize the extra game(s) to get ready for future postseason? Or perhaps if it's one last hurrah for a group of seniors that may not have played in the postseason otherwise?

My alma mater Sam Houston State has always bought home games in the CIT the last few years to the tune of $30 or $35k, based on available information. I'm not sure what I think of the investment, but to play in these things year after year without an NIT or NCAA berth is pretty demoralizing as a fan especially when you bow out to a fellow low major on your own home court.
02-24-2017 04:35 PM
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dbackjon Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
NAU had a good run in the CIT a couple years ago - making it to the Finals.

We had two home games, and those two games were the best attended Hoops Games in at least a decade, with the Semifinal against NJIT setting an All-time Attendance record.


So yes, it was worth it, getting people to a NAU game that they hadn't been in years, if ever.
02-24-2017 04:41 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
The extra coach time/practice is worth it. Which is why the NCAA should allow the same amount of practice time whether you make the post season or not.
02-24-2017 04:47 PM
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p23570
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
I like it. FB teams with losing records should be able to have a game if they choose to after the season is over.
02-24-2017 04:56 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
As a St Johns' fan, I'm looking at a young team with a second-year head coach that's looking better at the end of the season than at the beginning. Maybe we steal one more win, and win a Big East Tournament play-in game to get to 14-19. I harbor (possibly delusional) hopes that we could put together a run in a bottom-feeding tournament. So I'm hoping we have the chance this year--maybe the CBI, maybe the Vegas 16 or 8, if it happens again.
02-24-2017 04:58 PM
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 04:47 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  The extra coach time/practice is worth it. Which is why the NCAA should allow the same amount of practice time whether you make the post season or not.

Half those teams are going out the first night, they really don't gain much practice time unless they are in a league that that has an early conference tournament.

Sun Belt wraps up on Selection Sunday. So if you are a Sun Belt team that loses in the semi's you go home late Friday or early Saturday.

You'd get to practice Sunday, Monday, and maybe Tuesday.

CBI games start the Tuesday after Selection Sunday with other games that Wednesday.
CIT starts the Tuesday after Selection Sunday with games that Wednesday and Thursday as well.
Last year the Vegas 16-8 was two weeks after Selection Sunday so those teams did really get more practice.
02-24-2017 05:34 PM
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p23570
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
The more I hear about this i want to do the same thing in football. Let non bowl teams play a game in Dec the weekend or 2 following CC's.
02-24-2017 07:02 PM
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CenterSquarEd Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
Yes. I've attended every CBI home game that Siena's ever hosted. I like the elimination format and I like seeing teams that we don't often see. It's the "C tier," to be sure, but I would hope that my team would never sit home when given the choice. Vegas isn't as interesting as getting a home game. The CIT is mid-major-only, which is fun, but I'm glad that my school prefers mixing it up with majors and mid-majors both.
02-24-2017 07:04 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
They have their place and it is certainly good for teams that are good from lower conferences that are even overlooked by the NIT to make a showing in a postseason.
CIT/CBI costs are around 30k to 50k that can be made up by the home team by attendance. However, the big issue with AD's on these is that they are constantly bidding for a home game and/or if they can't afford the bid they don't know where they are traveling to next.

Vegas 16 is a flat 50k for the whole tourney and is all at the same place. It seems the coaches and players had a good experience there and after 1 year under its belt, thinking they'll be getting more teams and be a real Vegas 16. I know they have hope of competing against the NIT down the road, but they'll have to start paying teams to play there and with that they'll get the bigger power conferences to come.
02-24-2017 07:25 PM
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JCMiner Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
Does anyone have any news if the Vegas 16 will host a tournament this season?
02-24-2017 08:10 PM
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Go College Sports Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
Why are these tournaments pay to play, other than the fact that their organizers want to make money?
02-24-2017 08:19 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 08:10 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  Does anyone have any news if the Vegas 16 will host a tournament this season?

Yes they are.
02-24-2017 08:33 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 08:19 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  Why are these tournaments pay to play, other than the fact that their organizers want to make money?

Well, that's why. TV and advertising revenue is limited to nonexistent. Schools pay to host, recover at least some of the money through ticket sales.
02-24-2017 08:37 PM
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JCMiner Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 08:33 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 08:10 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  Does anyone have any news if the Vegas 16 will host a tournament this season?

Yes they are.
Are you sure? I'm about to make an online bet with a troll on the UTEP message board for a one year ban. He says that for a fact it went under I argue it's returning.
02-24-2017 08:45 PM
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Go College Sports Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 08:37 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 08:19 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  Why are these tournaments pay to play, other than the fact that their organizers want to make money?

Well, that's why. TV and advertising revenue is limited to nonexistent. Schools pay to host, recover at least some of the money through ticket sales.

I suppose I just don't understand why schools would agree to it or why it should that much to host a tournament with no discernible overhead.

I guess it doesn't matter because schools are willing to pay, but it seems easier for conferences to just form some loose alliance for its teams to play in a tournament, hire some refs, and then be done with it.
02-24-2017 08:56 PM
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Nittany_Bearcat Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
The Power conference schools have become "snob-ish" as regards these tournaments, whereas they used to participate they now nearly 100% decline the bids. As a Penn State fan, I find it ridiculous that our perennially bottom-tier B1G basketball team thinks they are "too good" for ANYTHING .... but such is. They're not the only school with this attitude.

And I do agree with the OP, that it's seeming to become a "oh, this again?" thing even for the non-Power conference schools.

That said, a non-NCAA, non-NIT tournament does have a role. There are invariably schools and fan-bases which WILL be excited to participate in this, given the current trajectory of the program. One example of such is a school I follow closely --- Northern Kentucky, which just won their 20th game, and hasn't participated in any tournament yet at the D-1 level.

We don't need 3 (CBI, CIT, Vegas) --- 1 would likely be sufficient. But definitely not none.
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2017 09:37 PM by Nittany_Bearcat.)
02-24-2017 09:34 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 08:45 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 08:33 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 08:10 PM)JCMiner Wrote:  Does anyone have any news if the Vegas 16 will host a tournament this season?

Yes they are.
Are you sure? I'm about to make an online bet with a troll on the UTEP message board for a one year ban. He says that for a fact it went under I argue it's returning.

BD Global still thinks so. They own the tournament. http://www.bdglobalsports.com
02-26-2017 07:19 PM
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Wolfman Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 05:34 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 04:47 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  The extra coach time/practice is worth it. Which is why the NCAA should allow the same amount of practice time whether you make the post season or not.

Half those teams are going out the first night, they really don't gain much practice time unless they are in a league that that has an early conference tournament.

Sun Belt wraps up on Selection Sunday. So if you are a Sun Belt team that loses in the semi's you go home late Friday or early Saturday.

You'd get to practice Sunday, Monday, and maybe Tuesday.

CBI games start the Tuesday after Selection Sunday with other games that Wednesday.
CIT starts the Tuesday after Selection Sunday with games that Wednesday and Thursday as well.
Last year the Vegas 16-8 was two weeks after Selection Sunday so those teams did really get more practice.

The question was, "Is it worth it?" If you turn down the CBI, you are done until next season. Meanwhile your conference mates have additional practices and games. Yeah, it sucks if you lose the first game but at least you got an additional game and practice or two.

A lot of kids play in summer leagues. That is not the same as playing and practicing with your teammates.
02-26-2017 07:48 PM
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MissouriStateBears Offline
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
Wish they would do just what the women's side does with a 64 NIT team.
02-26-2017 08:33 PM
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johnbragg Online
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RE: 'Third Tier' Hoops Tournaments
(02-24-2017 08:56 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 08:37 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  
(02-24-2017 08:19 PM)Go College Sports Wrote:  Why are these tournaments pay to play, other than the fact that their organizers want to make money?

Well, that's why. TV and advertising revenue is limited to nonexistent. Schools pay to host, recover at least some of the money through ticket sales.

I suppose I just don't understand why schools would agree to it or why it should that much to host a tournament with no discernible overhead.

Why schools would agree to it? Postseason experience. Developing your young players. Maybe giving your seniors a sendoff.

Consider, as I have a lot lately, St John's. We were 6-7 in nonconference, with losses to schools like LIU Brooklyn and Old Dominion and Delaware STate, as well as Penn State. But right now we're a very respectable 7-9 in the Big East, . IF we go to a tournament like the Vegas 16 or CBI or CIT (I forget which one is midmajors-only), we could make a run. Which would give us something to build on for next year.

Quote:I guess it doesn't matter because schools are willing to pay, but it seems easier for conferences to just form some loose alliance for its teams to play in a tournament, hire some refs, and then be done with it.

That may happen at some point.
02-26-2017 08:42 PM
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