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(12-20-2017 07:21 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  Would love to see it in the West End. That area needs a boost for development. I know some have argued that stadiums don't equal development but I think MLS is different. Someone smart will open a beer garden nearby called the Bailey or something like that and will be the official bar of FCC (and ironic facial hair). That area needs a boost and this could be it. Newport is actually shovel ready (unlike most other "shovel ready" projects) - this is the main benefit to that area. I like the idea of having it in the West End, relatively near breweries and old factories that can be turned into funky housing and restaurants. Now FCC has to somehow get rumored 19 parcels of land to be able to build in the West End.

That would also give the city the opportunity to easily (and relatively inexpensive-ly considering other directions) expand the streetcar route...Which in my opinion is needed if the thing is ever going to be considered successful. Maybe add a West End-Northside loop, with a Clifton connector next.

Yes expand the streetcar all over the city, that way it speeds up the bankruptcy. A line to the casino. a line to UC, then Northside, a line to the Mt. Adams Incline, and the Price Hill Incline. Perhaps a cog train to College Hill.

Back to the future.

(12-20-2017 08:41 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Too bad Broadway Commons was wasted on a generic, under-performing casino. How cool could that spot have been with what's happening in Pendleton and OTR?

I've also felt similarly about this.. that was a prime piece of land wasted. Not to play city planner, but I believed the casino should have been built as a multi-story building that could function in any part of downtown similar to how it was built in Cleveland. Say X levels of parking 4 or 5 levels of casino, a few levels of mixed use/banquet halls, and a hotel on top.

When/if GABP becomes outdated (hopefully not in our lifetime), they're going to be hard pressed to find downtown land.

(12-20-2017 09:11 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 08:41 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Too bad Broadway Commons was wasted on a generic, under-performing casino. How cool could that spot have been with what's happening in Pendleton and OTR?

I've also felt similarly about this.. that was a prime piece of land wasted. Not to play city planner, but I believed the casino should have been built as a multi-story building that could function in any part of downtown similar to how it was built in Cleveland. Say X levels of parking 4 or 5 levels of casino, a few levels of mixed use/banquet halls, and a hotel on top.

When/if GABP becomes outdated (hopefully not in our lifetime), they're going to be hard pressed to find downtown land.

Baseball will probably be dead at that point.

(12-20-2017 09:14 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 09:11 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 08:41 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Too bad Broadway Commons was wasted on a generic, under-performing casino. How cool could that spot have been with what's happening in Pendleton and OTR?

I've also felt similarly about this.. that was a prime piece of land wasted. Not to play city planner, but I believed the casino should have been built as a multi-story building that could function in any part of downtown similar to how it was built in Cleveland. Say X levels of parking 4 or 5 levels of casino, a few levels of mixed use/banquet halls, and a hotel on top.

When/if GABP becomes outdated (hopefully not in our lifetime), they're going to be hard pressed to find downtown land.

Baseball will probably be dead at that point.

They can build at the Reds' traditional home - in the West End. It can be placed near the FCC stadium. :)

Spent some time in Europe when at UC in the late '90s in the International Business program in Nantes, France. The streetcar they had in their city was great. They had a North/South train that went through the central business district (center was Place de la Commerce), and an East/West that did the same thing. Most buses crossed the streetcar path also. To get downtown, take a bus or walk (or take the ferry - pretty cool) to the streetcar, hop the streetcar and get downtown or to school. You could also take a bus downtown. It was reliable, on time and pleasant. Nantes is smaller than Cincy and I have no clue how many gov't subsidies the mass transit system received. Mass transit is also part of the culture there and not here. However, I would have started with something like this model when building the cincy loop. It probably would have been expensive but it makes much more sense than putting the train only in areas that you can likely walk to just as quickly.

(12-20-2017 09:10 AM)doss2 Wrote:  Yes expand the streetcar all over the city, that way it speeds up the bankruptcy. A line to the casino. a line to UC, then Northside, a line to the Mt. Adams Incline, and the Price Hill Incline. Perhaps a cog train to College Hill.

Back to the future.

I mean the overwhelming odds are that nothing will ever change in this town and Cincy will continue to be a mediocre, mid-level metropolis, but it's still fun to dream about a bigger and better future. Especially somewhere like this board where we have a 2,000 page thread dedicated to conference realignment speculation.

(12-20-2017 09:46 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  Spent some time in Europe when at UC in the late '90s in the International Business program in Nantes, France. The streetcar they had in their city was great. They had a North/South train that went through the central business district (center was Place de la Commerce), and an East/West that did the same thing. Most buses crossed the streetcar path also. To get downtown, take a bus or walk (or take the ferry - pretty cool) to the streetcar, hop the streetcar and get downtown or to school. You could also take a bus downtown. It was reliable, on time and pleasant. Nantes is smaller than Cincy and I have no clue how many gov't subsidies the mass transit system received. Mass transit is also part of the culture there and not here. However, I would have started with something like this model when building the cincy loop. It probably would have been expensive but it makes much more sense than putting the train only in areas that you can likely walk to just as quickly.

The thing a lot of people tend to forget about why public transportation infrastructure is so good in so many of these European cities is because they didn't have the auto industry paying their decision makers for years in the 20's and 30's to scrap them and prop up industry (Toledo, where I live currently, had a full street car and elevated commuter train system taken out in the 20's to incentivize Ford and other motor industry companies to build secondary plants here) AND they were all completely rebuilding most of their cities in the 50s, which gave them the ability to reorganize layouts much easier. Our public transportation is building over/has to accommodate an already organized city.

(12-20-2017 10:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 09:46 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  Spent some time in Europe when at UC in the late '90s in the International Business program in Nantes, France. The streetcar they had in their city was great. They had a North/South train that went through the central business district (center was Place de la Commerce), and an East/West that did the same thing. Most buses crossed the streetcar path also. To get downtown, take a bus or walk (or take the ferry - pretty cool) to the streetcar, hop the streetcar and get downtown or to school. You could also take a bus downtown. It was reliable, on time and pleasant. Nantes is smaller than Cincy and I have no clue how many gov't subsidies the mass transit system received. Mass transit is also part of the culture there and not here. However, I would have started with something like this model when building the cincy loop. It probably would have been expensive but it makes much more sense than putting the train only in areas that you can likely walk to just as quickly.

The thing a lot of people tend to forget about why public transportation infrastructure is so good in so many of these European cities is because they didn't have the auto industry paying their decision makers for years in the 20's and 30's to scrap them and prop up industry (Toledo, where I live currently, had a full street car and elevated commuter train system taken out in the 20's to incentivize Ford and other motor industry companies to build secondary plants here) AND they were all completely rebuilding most of their cities in the 50s, which gave them the ability to reorganize layouts much easier. Our public transportation is building over/has to accommodate an already organized city.

Thanks for pointing out the heavy lobbying/bribing by auto makers to reduce dependence on public transport. That's a yuge factor of which many people aren't aware.

(12-20-2017 10:08 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 09:10 AM)doss2 Wrote:  Yes expand the streetcar all over the city, that way it speeds up the bankruptcy. A line to the casino. a line to UC, then Northside, a line to the Mt. Adams Incline, and the Price Hill Incline. Perhaps a cog train to College Hill.

Back to the future.

I mean the overwhelming odds are that nothing will ever change in this town and Cincy will continue to be a mediocre, mid-level metropolis, but it's still fun to dream about a bigger and better future. Especially somewhere like this board where we have a 2,000 page thread dedicated to conference realignment speculation.

Just read today that the number of millennials in cities has peaked and has started to decline (probably as the millennials do what every other generation has done - go married, had kids, look for backyards and school systems). Inner cities are going to die no matter how much cash gets dumped into them.

A street car is going to end up just like Baltimore's Light Rail (it is now known as the Crime Rail).

(12-20-2017 09:11 AM)dubcat14 Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 08:41 AM)OKIcat Wrote:  Too bad Broadway Commons was wasted on a generic, under-performing casino. How cool could that spot have been with what's happening in Pendleton and OTR?

I've also felt similarly about this.. that was a prime piece of land wasted. Not to play city planner, but I believed the casino should have been built as a multi-story building that could function in any part of downtown similar to how it was built in Cleveland. Say X levels of parking 4 or 5 levels of casino, a few levels of mixed use/banquet halls, and a hotel on top.

When/if GABP becomes outdated (hopefully not in our lifetime), they're going to be hard pressed to find downtown land.

(12-20-2017 10:56 AM)TubaCat Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 10:12 AM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 09:46 AM)bearcatdp Wrote:  Spent some time in Europe when at UC in the late '90s in the International Business program in Nantes, France. The streetcar they had in their city was great. They had a North/South train that went through the central business district (center was Place de la Commerce), and an East/West that did the same thing. Most buses crossed the streetcar path also. To get downtown, take a bus or walk (or take the ferry - pretty cool) to the streetcar, hop the streetcar and get downtown or to school. You could also take a bus downtown. It was reliable, on time and pleasant. Nantes is smaller than Cincy and I have no clue how many gov't subsidies the mass transit system received. Mass transit is also part of the culture there and not here. However, I would have started with something like this model when building the cincy loop. It probably would have been expensive but it makes much more sense than putting the train only in areas that you can likely walk to just as quickly.

The thing a lot of people tend to forget about why public transportation infrastructure is so good in so many of these European cities is because they didn't have the auto industry paying their decision makers for years in the 20's and 30's to scrap them and prop up industry (Toledo, where I live currently, had a full street car and elevated commuter train system taken out in the 20's to incentivize Ford and other motor industry companies to build secondary plants here) AND they were all completely rebuilding most of their cities in the 50s, which gave them the ability to reorganize layouts much easier. Our public transportation is building over/has to accommodate an already organized city.

Thanks for pointing out the heavy lobbying/bribing by auto makers to reduce dependence on public transport. That's a yuge factor of which many people aren't aware.

I'm not sure how many remember, but Jim Tarbell raised money to build a facade and paint the dimensions of a proposed Broadway Commons stadium. It was pretty cool to look up at Mt. Adams and the Pendleton neighborhood and think about what could be. Instead, we get a behemoth that completely turns its back on its surroundings.

What I enjoyed in European cities are the huge pedestrian areas in downtown. Where they just permanently block off big sections of the city and make them pedestrian only. Delivery trucks can still get to businesses with the right permit, but it was really nice. Would love to see that here.

My first introduction to these pedestrian areas happened on my first day in Germany driving a rental car. I managed to drive into one and got all kinds of bad looks.

(12-20-2017 11:19 AM)AeroCat Wrote:  What I enjoyed in European cities are the huge pedestrian areas in downtown. Where they just permanently block off big sections of the city and make them pedestrian only. Delivery trucks can still get to businesses with the right permit, but it was really nice. Would love to see that here.

My first introduction to these pedestrian areas happened on my first day in Germany driving a rental car. I managed to drive into one and got all kinds of bad looks.

Agreed. I loved that aspect of life in Llubljiana, Munich, and other cities in that region. If there's proper density and public transportation, limiting traffic or closing the streets significantly helps local business. We've been piloting some of that (seasonally) here in Portland during the height of tourist season.

There's a lot of developable land around the old Hudepohl brewery. I was hoping that's where the FC Cincinnati stadium would go. I and a few others have talked about how a new arena could be built near Union Terminal. That would make a new streetcar line viable and would jumpstart development in the west end and queensgate.

I’m sure some on here are hyperventilating with all of this talk of Europe and Portland.

(12-20-2017 11:13 AM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 10:08 AM)DownOnRohs Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 09:10 AM)doss2 Wrote:  Yes expand the streetcar all over the city, that way it speeds up the bankruptcy. A line to the casino. a line to UC, then Northside, a line to the Mt. Adams Incline, and the Price Hill Incline. Perhaps a cog train to College Hill.

Back to the future.

I mean the overwhelming odds are that nothing will ever change in this town and Cincy will continue to be a mediocre, mid-level metropolis, but it's still fun to dream about a bigger and better future. Especially somewhere like this board where we have a 2,000 page thread dedicated to conference realignment speculation.

Just read today that the number of millennials in cities has peaked and has started to decline (probably as the millennials do what every other generation has done - go married, had kids, look for backyards and school systems). Inner cities are going to die no matter how much cash gets dumped into them.

A street car is going to end up just like Baltimore's Light Rail (it is now known as the Crime Rail).

Good lord.

(12-20-2017 01:19 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I’m sure some on here are hyperventilating with all of this talk of Europe and Portland.

Ha! That was in the back of my mind as I made that comment. When I lived in Cincinnati, I was often chided as a wild-eyed leftie. In Portland, I'm in cahoots with "the man".

(12-20-2017 01:27 PM)geef Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 01:19 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I’m sure some on here are hyperventilating with all of this talk of Europe and Portland.

Ha! That was in the back of my mind as I made that comment. When I lived in Cincinnati, I was often chided as a wild-eyed leftie. In Portland, I'm in cahoots with "the man".

I’m shocked that multiple public transit posts made on here without swift backlash.

Funny thing is, our sucky public transportation system is one of the things that separates us from the big boys.

(12-21-2017 07:58 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 01:27 PM)geef Wrote:  

(12-20-2017 01:19 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  I’m sure some on here are hyperventilating with all of this talk of Europe and Portland.

Ha! That was in the back of my mind as I made that comment. When I lived in Cincinnati, I was often chided as a wild-eyed leftie. In Portland, I'm in cahoots with "the man".

I’m shocked that multiple public transit posts made on here without swift backlash.

Funny thing is, our sucky public transportation system is one of the things that separates us from the big boys.

I love to ride the ducks!!

As a child I remember our street cars.

My grandmothers backyard overlooked the turn around on Quebec Road.

They were replaced by diesel buses partly because of the hills and I guess GM bribing politicians.