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WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #21
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-26-2017 04:47 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(02-22-2017 11:15 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  Up to this point here are my WAC honors for men's basketball.

COY-Paul Weir-NMSU

POY-Dwayne Russell-GCU

WAC 1st Team:
Dwayne Russell-GCU
Ian Baker-NMSU
Trayon Palmer-Chicago State
Jaylen Airington-CSUB
Eli Chuha-NMSU

WAC 2nd Team:
Lavell Boyd-UMKC
Antonio Green-UTRGV
Matt Smith-CSUB
Kyle Steward-UMKC
Isacc Neilson-Utah Valley

WAC New Comer of the Year: Jemerrio Jones-NMSU

Just so the GCU posters know the WAC POY was not as clear cut as I thought when you look closer at the stats. Only Baker and Russell won WAC Player of the week 3 times each and Bakers Field Goal Percentage and Free throw percentage is better than Russell. Also, points per game and assist per game are very very close. Sorry but I know you GCU fans think Braun deserves something and he does, for his hustle and determination to come back. However, his play has not been worthy enough IMO to merit any awards this year. I know you'll say that it looks homer my selections but look at stats, awards and individual performance. It's possible Barnes may win COY if they win out but to not give it to Weir at 26-4 if NMSU wins out would be wrong. Chuha wins for the center position cause he is decent and their are not very many good centers in the league this year.

So, all Braun has done since you wrote this is go for 29 & 28, climbing to 3rd in conference scoring. Still feel the same way, Dancing? I mean, no harm or offense if you still don't think he is worthy. I'm just wondering.

Congrats on the Aggie win last night, too. I didn't see the game, but sounds like everything was clicking again. Good for NMSU. Bad for everyone else entering the WACt with dreams of winning it.

No to Braun. One of those games vs last place Chicago State. No offense but Dwayne only, Braun nithing
02-26-2017 10:35 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #22
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
Thanks for answering honestly, Dancing. I still can't help but think you might be a little more than disappoint when All-WAC teams are announced, but I suppose we will all find out shortly!
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2017 11:43 PM by gleadley.)
02-26-2017 11:42 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #23
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-26-2017 11:42 PM)gleadley Wrote:  Thanks for answering honestly, Dancing. I still can't help but think you might be a little more than disappoint when All-WAC teams are announced, but I suppose we will all find out shortly!

I think GCU fans like yourselves let homerism affect your feelings. After that debacle vs. Utah Valley I still don't think Paul Weir should be COY. Barnes won the championship and deserves COY. Brawton Huggins has had some 30 point+ games but I don't think he should even be on the 2nd team. Braun doesn't deserve it, period. Even his whole body of work in the WAC does not merit it. If he does get in congrats to him but IMO he didn't deserve it.
02-27-2017 10:26 AM
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NotANewbie Offline
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Post: #24
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-27-2017 10:26 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 11:42 PM)gleadley Wrote:  Thanks for answering honestly, Dancing. I still can't help but think you might be a little more than disappoint when All-WAC teams are announced, but I suppose we will all find out shortly!

I think GCU fans like yourselves let homerism affect your feelings. After that debacle vs. Utah Valley I still don't think Paul Weir should be COY. Barnes won the championship and deserves COY. Brawton Huggins has had some 30 point+ games but I don't think he should even be on the 2nd team. Braun doesn't deserve it, period. Even his whole body of work in the WAC does not merit it. If he does get in congrats to him but IMO he didn't deserve it.


Dancing, that (homerism) has never affected your opinions.
02-27-2017 12:50 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #25
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-27-2017 12:50 PM)NotANewbie Wrote:  
(02-27-2017 10:26 AM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  
(02-26-2017 11:42 PM)gleadley Wrote:  Thanks for answering honestly, Dancing. I still can't help but think you might be a little more than disappoint when All-WAC teams are announced, but I suppose we will all find out shortly!

I think GCU fans like yourselves let homerism affect your feelings. After that debacle vs. Utah Valley I still don't think Paul Weir should be COY. Barnes won the championship and deserves COY. Brawton Huggins has had some 30 point+ games but I don't think he should even be on the 2nd team. Braun doesn't deserve it, period. Even his whole body of work in the WAC does not merit it. If he does get in congrats to him but IMO he didn't deserve it.


Dancing, that (homerism) has never affected your opinions.

Maybe at times but on this subject I don't think I am. I'm picking players based on entire body of work, amount of times players won player of the week, and cold hard stats. I'm not even picking Weir with a probable 25-5 record. If Any other schools fans had that they would be clamoring for COY award, especially GCUs fans. Barnes should win it although one wonders how he won it last year when Menzies had a 13-1 WAC record, regular season championship, and a sweep of Bakersfield. Explain that one.
02-27-2017 02:05 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #26
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
I don't think it is particularly biased to think the 3rd leading scorer in conference play (5th overall), who now has a WAC POTW award, might receive recognition. Those are some pretty cold hard stats. It consistent with my line of thinking on honors for Dixon & Sims, which you were clear on your reasoning for dismissing them as candidates.

I'm not trying to change your mind, because we all know that isn't going to happen. I am still just trying to understand if this is just your opinion, or if there are cold hard stats are telling you Braun is not worthy or undeserving of recognition. Are the others you consider above Braun quantifiably better on the boards or defensively, in addition to being prolific scorers?
02-27-2017 03:10 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #27
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
So, here are my All-WAC 1st Team/2nd Team, built on 3 basic premises:
1) Must be good at more than 1 thing (i.e. Top 20 PPG, Top 15 RPG, and/or Top 10 in APG/STL/BLK) - Yes, Dancing, this will exclude Braun.
2) Seniors will receive priority from voters, as it is their last shot at awards.
3) Players choose as C for each Team are more obligatory than actually fitting the previous 2 premises. I'm not sure the conference has a true dominant C, but these guys will do for now.

1st Team
Russell GCU (1st PPG, 1st APG, 4th STL)
Baker NMSU (7th PPG, 3rd APG, 8th STL)
Palmer CSU (8th PPG, 1st RPG, 6th STL, 9th BLK)
Smith CSUB (16th PPG, 6th RPG, 3rd BLK)
Chuha NMSU (15th PPG, 3rd RPG)

2nd Team
Dixon UTRGV (3rd PPG, 9th RPG, 8th APG, 1st STL)
Westendorf SU (9th PPG, 5th APG, 2nd STL)
Basile CSUB (14th PPG, 10th APG, 3rd STL)
Powell SU (20th PPG, 8th RPG, 9th APG)
Neilson UVU (2nd RPG, 2nd BLK)

Dixon forces the voters' hands by ranking Top 10 in 4 of the 5 major statistical categories. I still have no idea how Boyd doesn't make one of the teams, but there are my best guesses about how it plays out.
02-27-2017 07:31 PM
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ThunderDan49 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
Anybody have any thoughts on All-Defensive Team?
02-27-2017 09:22 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #29
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-27-2017 07:31 PM)gleadley Wrote:  So, here are my All-WAC 1st Team/2nd Team, built on 3 basic premises:
1) Must be good at more than 1 thing (i.e. Top 20 PPG, Top 15 RPG, and/or Top 10 in APG/STL/BLK) - Yes, Dancing, this will exclude Braun.
2) Seniors will receive priority from voters, as it is their last shot at awards.
3) Players choose as C for each Team are more obligatory than actually fitting the previous 2 premises. I'm not sure the conference has a true dominant C, but these guys will do for now.

1st Team
Russell GCU (1st PPG, 1st APG, 4th STL)
Baker NMSU (7th PPG, 3rd APG, 8th STL)
Palmer CSU (8th PPG, 1st RPG, 6th STL, 9th BLK)
Smith CSUB (16th PPG, 6th RPG, 3rd BLK)
Chuha NMSU (15th PPG, 3rd RPG)

2nd Team
Dixon UTRGV (3rd PPG, 9th RPG, 8th APG, 1st STL)
Westendorf SU (9th PPG, 5th APG, 2nd STL)
Basile CSUB (14th PPG, 10th APG, 3rd STL)
Powell SU (20th PPG, 8th RPG, 9th APG)
Neilson UVU (2nd RPG, 2nd BLK)

Dixon forces the voters' hands by ranking Top 10 in 4 of the 5 major statistical categories. I still have no idea how Boyd doesn't make one of the teams, but there are my best guesses about how it plays out.
I think you might be on to something but one of the UMKC players has to be on the 2nd team to replace one of the Seattle players. No way two Seattle players on the 2nd team and not one UMKC player on either teams.
02-27-2017 11:32 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #30
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
It's all just silliness anyway, right? Trying to objectively guess how the subjective voting of individuals who have their own prespectives, alliances & agendas is probably our first mistake. Haha.

I will say, given his reputation for being an analytics guy, I'd love to get a look at the advanced metrics Coach Weir busts out when casting his votes. That stuff fascinates me & I'd love to see/hear what he comes up with.
02-28-2017 01:52 AM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #31
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-27-2017 09:22 PM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  Anybody have any thoughts on All-Defensive Team?

Baker NMSU, Basile CSUB, & Westendorf SU were All Defensive Team members last year. I know Coach Majerle will probably be lobbying hard for Martin, though he doesn't rank in or near Top 10 in any typically defensive stats (rebounds, steals, blocks). Frayer ranks in all 3, but I don't thing any are high enough to warrant a freshman getting that kind of love from conference coaches.

Maybe there is something in the advanced metrics that prove out Martin belongs. Maybe throw in a rim protector (Palmer) or two (Nielson). I don't think the senior players from last year's defensive team have dropped off at all, so maybe we are only looking at filling 2 spots.
02-28-2017 02:18 AM
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ThunderDan49 Offline
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Post: #32
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 02:18 AM)gleadley Wrote:  
(02-27-2017 09:22 PM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  Anybody have any thoughts on All-Defensive Team?

Baker NMSU, Basile CSUB, & Westendorf SU were All Defensive Team members last year. I know Coach Majerle will probably be lobbying hard for Martin, though he doesn't rank in or near Top 10 in any typically defensive stats (rebounds, steals, blocks). Frayer ranks in all 3, but I don't thing any are high enough to warrant a freshman getting that kind of love from conference coaches.

Maybe there is something in the advanced metrics that prove out Martin belongs. Maybe throw in a rim protector (Palmer) or two (Nielson). I don't think the senior players from last year's defensive team have dropped off at all, so maybe we are only looking at filling 2 spots.

What I look at is charges cause if you're playing good defense, chances are you are drawing offensive fouls. Now I know that it isn't tracked by anyone that I know, but I know he's drawn at least one a game and most games it is more than that. The other thing that I would look at would be plus/minus, but again, I don't know if there is any site that tracks it.
02-28-2017 03:41 AM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #33
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
I'm sure that is all tracked (maybe KenPom?), but whether voters care is a whole other matter. GCU fans who watch Martin on an every game basis know what he brings on the defensive side, but I'm not sure it translates for the casual observer. If I wasn't a GCU fan, I'd probably be baffled how a kid who averages just 5 point per game is also among the WAC leaders in minutes played at almost 30mins/game. That math doesn't make sense.
02-28-2017 10:57 AM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #34
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 03:41 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  What I look at is charges cause if you're playing good defense, chances are you are drawing offensive fouls. Now I know that it isn't tracked by anyone that I know, but I know he's drawn at least one a game and most games it is more than that. The other thing that I would look at would be plus/minus, but again, I don't know if there is any site that tracks it.

I found an advanced metric site for the WAC that might be the death of me HERE. Haha.

So, Martin does rank 3rd in the WAC for DBPM. Coach Majerle will undoubtedly make his case. We'll see if it resonates with enough of the other coaches/voters.
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017 12:53 PM by gleadley.)
02-28-2017 12:49 PM
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dancingNMSUaggie Offline
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Post: #35
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 12:49 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 03:41 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  What I look at is charges cause if you're playing good defense, chances are you are drawing offensive fouls. Now I know that it isn't tracked by anyone that I know, but I know he's drawn at least one a game and most games it is more than that. The other thing that I would look at would be plus/minus, but again, I don't know if there is any site that tracks it.

I found an advanced metric site for the WAC that might be the death of me HERE. Haha.

So, Martin does rank 3rd in the WAC for DBPM. Coach Majerle will undoubtedly make his case. We'll see if it resonates with enough of the other coaches/voters.

Let's just be done with this and make GCU starting 5 the WAC 1st team, Russell POY, Majerle COY and our nominee for our next president of the United States, and WAC 2nd team 5 players from the GCU bench.01-donnankungfu
02-28-2017 03:04 PM
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RunnerBall Offline
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Post: #36
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 12:49 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 03:41 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  What I look at is charges cause if you're playing good defense, chances are you are drawing offensive fouls. Now I know that it isn't tracked by anyone that I know, but I know he's drawn at least one a game and most games it is more than that. The other thing that I would look at would be plus/minus, but again, I don't know if there is any site that tracks it.

I found an advanced metric site for the WAC that might be the death of me HERE. Haha.

So, Martin does rank 3rd in the WAC for DBPM. Coach Majerle will undoubtedly make his case. We'll see if it resonates with enough of the other coaches/voters.

Good find, Gleadly, thanks!
02-28-2017 03:06 PM
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ThunderDan49 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 12:49 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 03:41 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  What I look at is charges cause if you're playing good defense, chances are you are drawing offensive fouls. Now I know that it isn't tracked by anyone that I know, but I know he's drawn at least one a game and most games it is more than that. The other thing that I would look at would be plus/minus, but again, I don't know if there is any site that tracks it.

I found an advanced metric site for the WAC that might be the death of me HERE. Haha.

So, Martin does rank 3rd in the WAC for DBPM. Coach Majerle will undoubtedly make his case. We'll see if it resonates with enough of the other coaches/voters.

He's also 5th in DWS, 5th in steals average, and 5th in steal percentage.
02-28-2017 03:25 PM
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gleadley Offline
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Post: #38
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
What about drawing charges, because Martin owns at that! I have no idea how he gets into position so quickly, but it would drive me crazy if I was an opposing player, Coach, or fan.
02-28-2017 03:30 PM
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ThunderDan49 Offline
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Post: #39
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 03:04 PM)dancingNMSUaggie Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 12:49 PM)gleadley Wrote:  
(02-28-2017 03:41 AM)ThunderDan49 Wrote:  What I look at is charges cause if you're playing good defense, chances are you are drawing offensive fouls. Now I know that it isn't tracked by anyone that I know, but I know he's drawn at least one a game and most games it is more than that. The other thing that I would look at would be plus/minus, but again, I don't know if there is any site that tracks it.

I found an advanced metric site for the WAC that might be the death of me HERE. Haha.

So, Martin does rank 3rd in the WAC for DBPM. Coach Majerle will undoubtedly make his case. We'll see if it resonates with enough of the other coaches/voters.

Let's just be done with this and make GCU starting 5 the WAC 1st team, Russell POY, Majerle COY and our nominee for our next president of the United States, and WAC 2nd team 5 players from the GCU bench.01-donnankungfu

I am in no way saying everyone on our team deserves awards, but give credit where credit is due. I wouldn't even put Josh on 2nd team All-WAC despite how he has been playing down the stretch and I sure as hell don't believe that Majerle deserves coach of the year.
02-28-2017 03:47 PM
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ThunderDan49 Offline
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Post: #40
RE: WAC Conference Honors-Men's Basketball
(02-28-2017 03:30 PM)gleadley Wrote:  What about drawing charges, because Martin owns at that! I have no idea how he gets into position so quickly, but it would drive me crazy if I was an opposing player, Coach, or fan.

I don't know if KenPom tracks it. I tried looking, but if you want to look at any of the stats you need a subscription, which is kinda annoying.
02-28-2017 03:49 PM
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