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Cost of FBS vs FCS football
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 07:46 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 06:42 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 06:03 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 03:01 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Liberty, UND, NDSU, and USD are the only FCS schools paying FCOA to my knowledge. UND will drop more sports (like M/W tennis) before it will touch FCOA.

UND has d-1 wrestling still right?

Cheers!

No, that was dropped in the 90's at the DII level to add more women's sports. NDSU and SDSU have it though and it's pretty high priority with them because their now Big 12 affiliates.

As said before, the ND schools wanted to go DI even in the 70's and on, but could not get a conference invite and couldn't convince our North Central Conference schools to move up enough masse. When Northern Iowa left the NCC to start the then MidCon with Green Bay, Valpo, E Ill, W Ill and Sw Mo St, that was a massive blow to the NCC and our egos as we werent wanted. N Colorado and Omaha later did move up along with the SD schools. ND schools have always been much more comprehensive than other NCC schools and have more Minnesota fans and connections

Oh ok. That's also good historical info. I didn't know UNI excluded you guys.

Cheers!

Well, UNI didn't exclude us, but the schools further east like W Ill and E Ill probably did as we would have been a flight. They wanted a bus league.
02-18-2017 07:49 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 04:12 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 01:17 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  All of this just makes me wonder if you're going to see Idaho use the backlash from all this as an excuse to just drop football completely.

Would be a more sensible decision for the university than playing FCS football. My view has always been, try indy for a while and see what happens, especially now that the program has straightened out. If we fall down, scheduling is terrible and the program falls apart again, then fine, give up and drop the sport.

If the fanbase hates the idea of FCS, the marketing value is actually negative for a school that competes with BSU, and it costs a ton of money then why do it?

Because the alternative is going back to Zombie WAC and putting your athletes on 4-hour bus rides to Edinburg, Texas after they've flown all the way to San Antonio, and sending them to Chicago State where they'll start thinking they're not in Division I anymore.
02-18-2017 08:15 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 08:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 04:12 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 01:17 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  All of this just makes me wonder if you're going to see Idaho use the backlash from all this as an excuse to just drop football completely.

Would be a more sensible decision for the university than playing FCS football. My view has always been, try indy for a while and see what happens, especially now that the program has straightened out. If we fall down, scheduling is terrible and the program falls apart again, then fine, give up and drop the sport.

If the fanbase hates the idea of FCS, the marketing value is actually negative for a school that competes with BSU, and it costs a ton of money then why do it?

Because the alternative is going back to Zombie WAC and putting your athletes on 4-hour bus rides to Edinburg, Texas after they've flown all the way to San Antonio, and sending them to Chicago State where they'll start thinking they're not in Division I anymore.

You're assuming the Big Sky kicks us out if we drop football? Fun fact -- according to the Expedia I just checked, it takes the same amount of time to fly commercial from Pullman to McAllen, TX as it does to fly to Flagstaff.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2017 10:00 PM by LatahCounty.)
02-18-2017 09:47 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 09:47 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 08:15 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 04:12 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 01:17 PM)uakronkid Wrote:  All of this just makes me wonder if you're going to see Idaho use the backlash from all this as an excuse to just drop football completely.

Would be a more sensible decision for the university than playing FCS football. My view has always been, try indy for a while and see what happens, especially now that the program has straightened out. If we fall down, scheduling is terrible and the program falls apart again, then fine, give up and drop the sport.

If the fanbase hates the idea of FCS, the marketing value is actually negative for a school that competes with BSU, and it costs a ton of money then why do it?

Because the alternative is going back to Zombie WAC and putting your athletes on 4-hour bus rides to Edinburg, Texas after they've flown all the way to San Antonio, and sending them to Chicago State where they'll start thinking they're not in Division I anymore.

You're assuming the Big Sky kicks us out if we drop football? Fun fact -- according to the Expedia I just checked, it takes the same amount of time to fly commercial from Pullman to McAllen, TX as it does to fly to Flagstaff.

That's not how I'd get to Flagstaff, but this isn't a frequent traveler website, so no point in arguing that.

The BSC doesn't have any members without a football team. Unless UI has already been told they are still in even if they drop football, I wouldn't assume that.
02-18-2017 10:22 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-18-2017 10:22 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-18-2017 09:47 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  You're assuming the Big Sky kicks us out if we drop football? Fun fact -- according to the Expedia I just checked, it takes the same amount of time to fly commercial from Pullman to McAllen, TX as it does to fly to Flagstaff.

That's not how I'd get to Flagstaff, but this isn't a frequent traveler website, so no point in arguing that.

The BSC doesn't have any members without a football team. Unless UI has already been told they are still in even if they drop football, I wouldn't assume that.

Well, give or take a bus trip or two. I know travel in the WAC would be worse, but it's not so much worse as to be unbearable. It's hard to get to a bunch of Big Sky towns, too.
02-18-2017 10:38 PM
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Post: #46
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
Just to give a rough idea.

Start with the assumption that each scholarship costs $20,000 with full cost of attendance.

Adding the required scholarships to go from FCS to FBS plus complying with Title IX means $880,000 more every year and that assumes that is all you need to get to 200 rides. Many FCS aren't giving out all the allowed rides in sports other than football and men's and women's basketball.

You will add at least one assistant for football and path appears cleared for a 10th FBS assistant. Paying those two assistants at bottom of scale, with taxes and benefits, you add roughly $150,000.

Add one sport (to absorb the extra women's scholarship), presumably something with low equipment and travel costs, and a single coach, add another $200,000 scrapping the bottom.

Beefing up the recruiting a minimal amount just to stay moderately competitive (you've got to travel more to see more kids and bring more in on visits) and recruiting costs for the new sport, call it another $150,000.

Salaries are going to have to beef up at most any FCS, let's do it marginally and toss another $400,000 in the pot for head coach and top assistants.

So you are looking at $1.8 million more a year. Scrimping let's call it $1.5 million.

OK you can sign a P5 game for around $1.2 million but as an FCS you were getting around $400,000 for that game so you've only gained $800,000 more. Basically you need two P5 road trips to cover the costs to break even.

Problem is you are no longer going home/home with FCS and want a winnable game so you might find a regional FCS to play single shot for $200,000. Even with two P5 opponents you are at best where you started financially after buying a game and you've likely tacked an extra loss on to your results which may impact your ticket sales.

This is assuming you need no facility upgrades and no debt service for those upgrades.
02-21-2017 09:48 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-21-2017 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just to give a rough idea.

Start with the assumption that each scholarship costs $20,000 with full cost of attendance.

Adding the required scholarships to go from FCS to FBS plus complying with Title IX means $880,000 more every year and that assumes that is all you need to get to 200 rides. Many FCS aren't giving out all the allowed rides in sports other than football and men's and women's basketball.

You will add at least one assistant for football and path appears cleared for a 10th FBS assistant. Paying those two assistants at bottom of scale, with taxes and benefits, you add roughly $150,000.

Add one sport (to absorb the extra women's scholarship), presumably something with low equipment and travel costs, and a single coach, add another $200,000 scrapping the bottom.

Beefing up the recruiting a minimal amount just to stay moderately competitive (you've got to travel more to see more kids and bring more in on visits) and recruiting costs for the new sport, call it another $150,000.

Salaries are going to have to beef up at most any FCS, let's do it marginally and toss another $400,000 in the pot for head coach and top assistants.

So you are looking at $1.8 million more a year. Scrimping let's call it $1.5 million.

OK you can sign a P5 game for around $1.2 million but as an FCS you were getting around $400,000 for that game so you've only gained $800,000 more. Basically you need two P5 road trips to cover the costs to break even.

Problem is you are no longer going home/home with FCS and want a winnable game so you might find a regional FCS to play single shot for $200,000. Even with two P5 opponents you are at best where you started financially after buying a game and you've likely tacked an extra loss on to your results which may impact your ticket sales.

This is assuming you need no facility upgrades and no debt service for those upgrades.

This is all good stuff and true, but you left off a big piece, CFP money, TV, and share of bowl money for those in a conference.

In our case, minus improvements we are breaking even with the above. As FCS we averaged 11-13k for attendance and as FBS 14-16k as a terrible team. Ticket prices and donations also went up. The 6-8* time period is when your able to compete at the FBS level.

*This assumes your program was not an elite FCS squad as the move up happened and is on average, there are exceptions.
02-21-2017 10:04 AM
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #48
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-21-2017 10:04 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just to give a rough idea.

Start with the assumption that each scholarship costs $20,000 with full cost of attendance.

Adding the required scholarships to go from FCS to FBS plus complying with Title IX means $880,000 more every year and that assumes that is all you need to get to 200 rides. Many FCS aren't giving out all the allowed rides in sports other than football and men's and women's basketball.

You will add at least one assistant for football and path appears cleared for a 10th FBS assistant. Paying those two assistants at bottom of scale, with taxes and benefits, you add roughly $150,000.

Add one sport (to absorb the extra women's scholarship), presumably something with low equipment and travel costs, and a single coach, add another $200,000 scrapping the bottom.

Beefing up the recruiting a minimal amount just to stay moderately competitive (you've got to travel more to see more kids and bring more in on visits) and recruiting costs for the new sport, call it another $150,000.

Salaries are going to have to beef up at most any FCS, let's do it marginally and toss another $400,000 in the pot for head coach and top assistants.

So you are looking at $1.8 million more a year. Scrimping let's call it $1.5 million.

OK you can sign a P5 game for around $1.2 million but as an FCS you were getting around $400,000 for that game so you've only gained $800,000 more. Basically you need two P5 road trips to cover the costs to break even.

Problem is you are no longer going home/home with FCS and want a winnable game so you might find a regional FCS to play single shot for $200,000. Even with two P5 opponents you are at best where you started financially after buying a game and you've likely tacked an extra loss on to your results which may impact your ticket sales.

This is assuming you need no facility upgrades and no debt service for those upgrades.

This is all good stuff and true, but you left off a big piece, CFP money, TV, and share of bowl money for those in a conference.

In our case, minus improvements we are breaking even with the above. As FCS we averaged 11-13k for attendance and as FBS 14-16k as a terrible team. Ticket prices and donations also went up. The 6-8* time period is when your able to compete at the FBS level.

*This assumes your program was not an elite FCS squad as the move up happened and is on average, there are exceptions.

The most recent G5 TV deal was roughly $200,000 per team per year probably not enough to offset the ticket and parking revenue for a couple weeknight games.
02-21-2017 11:42 AM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
Yup, but CFP money is 10 Mil for the conference and then there is the payout amount depending on the conference G5 ranking. Then there is bowl sharing money potential.
02-21-2017 11:48 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-21-2017 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just to give a rough idea.

Start with the assumption that each scholarship costs $20,000 with full cost of attendance.

Adding the required scholarships to go from FCS to FBS plus complying with Title IX means $880,000 more every year and that assumes that is all you need to get to 200 rides. Many FCS aren't giving out all the allowed rides in sports other than football and men's and women's basketball.

You will add at least one assistant for football and path appears cleared for a 10th FBS assistant. Paying those two assistants at bottom of scale, with taxes and benefits, you add roughly $150,000.

Add one sport (to absorb the extra women's scholarship), presumably something with low equipment and travel costs, and a single coach, add another $200,000 scrapping the bottom.

Beefing up the recruiting a minimal amount just to stay moderately competitive (you've got to travel more to see more kids and bring more in on visits) and recruiting costs for the new sport, call it another $150,000.

Salaries are going to have to beef up at most any FCS, let's do it marginally and toss another $400,000 in the pot for head coach and top assistants.

So you are looking at $1.8 million more a year. Scrimping let's call it $1.5 million.

OK you can sign a P5 game for around $1.2 million but as an FCS you were getting around $400,000 for that game so you've only gained $800,000 more. Basically you need two P5 road trips to cover the costs to break even.

Problem is you are no longer going home/home with FCS and want a winnable game so you might find a regional FCS to play single shot for $200,000. Even with two P5 opponents you are at best where you started financially after buying a game and you've likely tacked an extra loss on to your results which may impact your ticket sales.

This is assuming you need no facility upgrades and no debt service for those upgrades.

Not quibbling with your numbers but adding one more -- at Idaho athletic contributions are already down $873K year-over-year and we haven't even made the drop yet. It's reasonable to believe that at some places boosters can be more motivated by the idea of FBS football, just as they are being turned off by a drop to FCS.

Also, tacking on an extra loss to a P5 may impact your ticket sales negatively, but I bet bringing bigger-name schools to your stadium would more than offset that.
02-21-2017 11:51 AM
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p23570
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Post: #51
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-21-2017 10:04 AM)Steve1981 Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 09:48 AM)arkstfan Wrote:  Just to give a rough idea.

Start with the assumption that each scholarship costs $20,000 with full cost of attendance.

Adding the required scholarships to go from FCS to FBS plus complying with Title IX means $880,000 more every year and that assumes that is all you need to get to 200 rides. Many FCS aren't giving out all the allowed rides in sports other than football and men's and women's basketball.

You will add at least one assistant for football and path appears cleared for a 10th FBS assistant. Paying those two assistants at bottom of scale, with taxes and benefits, you add roughly $150,000.

Add one sport (to absorb the extra women's scholarship), presumably something with low equipment and travel costs, and a single coach, add another $200,000 scrapping the bottom.

Beefing up the recruiting a minimal amount just to stay moderately competitive (you've got to travel more to see more kids and bring more in on visits) and recruiting costs for the new sport, call it another $150,000.

Salaries are going to have to beef up at most any FCS, let's do it marginally and toss another $400,000 in the pot for head coach and top assistants.

So you are looking at $1.8 million more a year. Scrimping let's call it $1.5 million.

OK you can sign a P5 game for around $1.2 million but as an FCS you were getting around $400,000 for that game so you've only gained $800,000 more. Basically you need two P5 road trips to cover the costs to break even.

Problem is you are no longer going home/home with FCS and want a winnable game so you might find a regional FCS to play single shot for $200,000. Even with two P5 opponents you are at best where you started financially after buying a game and you've likely tacked an extra loss on to your results which may impact your ticket sales.

This is assuming you need no facility upgrades and no debt service for those upgrades.

This is all good stuff and true, but you left off a big piece, CFP money, TV, and share of bowl money for those in a conference.

In our case, minus improvements we are breaking even with the above. As FCS we averaged 11-13k for attendance and as FBS 14-16k as a terrible team. Ticket prices and donations also went up. The 6-8* time period is when your able to compete at the FBS level.

*This assumes your program was not an elite FCS squad as the move up happened and is on average, there are exceptions.
There is nothing "breaking even" about the UMAss AD. 78% subsidy to operate. That has to be one of the worst if not the worst state flagship in the country.

71 Massachusetts A-10 $36,512,437 $36,897,375 $28,681,769 78.55

Ticket sales of 1.6 million. Donations of 1.3 million.
02-21-2017 12:40 PM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
The goal was never to make money going FBS, never. The goal was not to lose more money than FCS Football and long term, perhaps lose less.
02-21-2017 12:46 PM
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p23570
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Post: #53
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
I was simply pointing out that the increases in ticket sales you claim really aren't' true when you look at the AD finances. I see donations did increase a little bit but are still pocket change in the big picture.


Massachusetts
CONFERENCE: A-10

YEAR TICKET SALES CONTRIBUTIONS RIGHTS / LICENSING STUDENT FEES SCHOOL FUNDS OTHER TOTAL REVENUES
2015 $1,643,397 $1,371,144 $2,566,830 $8,151,071 $20,530,698 $2,249,297 $36,512,437
2014 $1,695,134 $1,579,380 $1,711,809 $8,081,072 $18,344,057 $2,464,466 $33,875,918
2013 $1,413,936 $841,873 $1,729,462 $8,004,252 $16,350,175 $1,720,937 $30,060,635
2012 $1,160,807 $1,174,767 $1,787,962 $7,986,581 $16,389,092 $1,263,008 $29,762,217
2011 $1,290,143 $656,374 $2,071,154 $7,858,242 $14,185,734 $1,186,630 $27,248,277
2010 $1,246,446 $615,212 $2,028,721 $7,655,562 $12,519,657 $1,092,374 $25,157,972
2009 $1,543,216 $728,547 $1,958,969 $7,523,706 $12,458,449 $1,035,586 $25,248,473
2008 $1,477,290 $917,399 $2,067,241 $7,247,226 $12,407,669 $1,103,813 $25,220,638
2007 $1,400,854 $1,030,645 $2,051,253 $7,110,508 $8,798,995 $761,606 $21,153,861
2006 $1,084,246 $719,429 $1,973,277 $6,910,727 $8,448,848 $745,163 $19,881,690
2005 $1,032,637 $705,500 $1,625,442 $6,844,792 $8,391,074 $745,146 $19,344,591
02-21-2017 12:50 PM
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Steve1981 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
Your point does not make much sense. Especially if ticket sales include basketball as those sales are in a serious decline and the BB coach is on a very hot seat.

1.64 and 1.67 Million look higher than any year. 2007-9 where good years for basketball sales.

(02-21-2017 12:50 PM)p23570 Wrote:  I was simply pointing out that the increases in ticket sales you claim really aren't' true when you look at the AD finances. I see donations did increase a little bit but are still pocket change in the big picture.


Massachusetts
CONFERENCE: A-10

YEAR TICKET SALES CONTRIBUTIONS RIGHTS / LICENSING STUDENT FEES SCHOOL FUNDS OTHER TOTAL REVENUES
2015 $1,643,397 $1,371,144 $2,566,830 $8,151,071 $20,530,698 $2,249,297 $36,512,437
2014 $1,695,134 $1,579,380 $1,711,809 $8,081,072 $18,344,057 $2,464,466 $33,875,918
2013 $1,413,936 $841,873 $1,729,462 $8,004,252 $16,350,175 $1,720,937 $30,060,635
2012 $1,160,807 $1,174,767 $1,787,962 $7,986,581 $16,389,092 $1,263,008 $29,762,217
2011 $1,290,143 $656,374 $2,071,154 $7,858,242 $14,185,734 $1,186,630 $27,248,277
2010 $1,246,446 $615,212 $2,028,721 $7,655,562 $12,519,657 $1,092,374 $25,157,972
2009 $1,543,216 $728,547 $1,958,969 $7,523,706 $12,458,449 $1,035,586 $25,248,473
2008 $1,477,290 $917,399 $2,067,241 $7,247,226 $12,407,669 $1,103,813 $25,220,638
2007 $1,400,854 $1,030,645 $2,051,253 $7,110,508 $8,798,995 $761,606 $21,153,861
2006 $1,084,246 $719,429 $1,973,277 $6,910,727 $8,448,848 $745,163 $19,881,690
2005 $1,032,637 $705,500 $1,625,442 $6,844,792 $8,391,074 $745,146 $19,344,591
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2017 01:20 PM by Steve1981.)
02-21-2017 01:15 PM
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p23570
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Post: #55
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
I guess you being a homer for your school makes you unable to see what is fairly obvious to the rest of us looking at the finances. Moving ot FBS in 2012 has really not worked out on paper. But if you want to pretend such feel free, the numbers are quite clear.

Most of us can look at that and see 2012 was the first year in FBS, ticket sales actually went down and are just now getting past 2009 levels. AT best we are talking a few hundred thousand dollars in tickets, hardly what you described. Nice try but fail.

Looking at the finances opposite of what you said actually happened. The AD became more of a burden for taxpayers. The difference form 2011 to now is primarily subsidy which went from 14 million to over 20 million. The increase in ticket sales was minimal at best and donations increased but by less than 1 million per year so not enough to make a difference. The real difference is the over 6 million $ burden which leads to an AD with requires nearly 80% subsidy to operate. I don't think this makes a good case for FBS football.

How does this work out in your mind?
1 million total increase in donations and ticket sales
6+ million $ increase in taxpayer funds to operate AD at FBS level.



(02-21-2017 01:15 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  Your point does not make much sense. Especially if ticket sales include basketball as those sales are in a serious decline and the BB coach is on a very hot seat.

1.64 and 1.67 Million look higher than any year. 2007-9 where good years for basketball sales.

(02-21-2017 12:50 PM)p23570 Wrote:  I was simply pointing out that the increases in ticket sales you claim really aren't' true when you look at the AD finances. I see donations did increase a little bit but are still pocket change in the big picture.


Massachusetts
CONFERENCE: A-10

YEAR TICKET SALES CONTRIBUTIONS RIGHTS / LICENSING STUDENT FEES SCHOOL FUNDS OTHER TOTAL REVENUES
2015 $1,643,397 $1,371,144 $2,566,830 $8,151,071 $20,530,698 $2,249,297 $36,512,437
2014 $1,695,134 $1,579,380 $1,711,809 $8,081,072 $18,344,057 $2,464,466 $33,875,918
2013 $1,413,936 $841,873 $1,729,462 $8,004,252 $16,350,175 $1,720,937 $30,060,635
2012 $1,160,807 $1,174,767 $1,787,962 $7,986,581 $16,389,092 $1,263,008 $29,762,217
2011 $1,290,143 $656,374 $2,071,154 $7,858,242 $14,185,734 $1,186,630 $27,248,277
2010 $1,246,446 $615,212 $2,028,721 $7,655,562 $12,519,657 $1,092,374 $25,157,972
2009 $1,543,216 $728,547 $1,958,969 $7,523,706 $12,458,449 $1,035,586 $25,248,473
2008 $1,477,290 $917,399 $2,067,241 $7,247,226 $12,407,669 $1,103,813 $25,220,638
2007 $1,400,854 $1,030,645 $2,051,253 $7,110,508 $8,798,995 $761,606 $21,153,861
2006 $1,084,246 $719,429 $1,973,277 $6,910,727 $8,448,848 $745,163 $19,881,690
2005 $1,032,637 $705,500 $1,625,442 $6,844,792 $8,391,074 $745,146 $19,344,591
02-21-2017 01:25 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
The Athletic department has gone through major changes and the budget has gone from 25.2 Mill to 36.5 Million. In 5 years the budget increased 11.3 Million, 45%.

My point was strictly responding to ArkState fan work on FCS vs FBS.

You are correct that things could have gone much better, with the old AD scheduling all P5 teams for OOC play and then leaving us in terrible shape for the 2016 schedule. Ryan Bamford did a great job with the schedule but the damage is done. Most of the new fans around Boston did not stick because we were out classed, out coached and played terrible.

Do have maroon glasses and expecting 4-6 wins this year playing two P5 teams, BYU and several G5 conference champions.
Last year was the first good recruiting year and those guys have a year under their belts.

We also landed Western Michigan's defensive coordinator Ed Pinkham.
Everything looks maroon in regards to football.
Expecting an up year!
02-21-2017 01:39 PM
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p23570
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CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #57
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-21-2017 01:39 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  The Athletic department has gone through major changes and the budget has gone from 25.2 Mill to 36.5 Million. In 5 years the budget increased 11.3 Million, 45%.

My point was strictly responding to ArkState fan work on FCS vs FBS.

You are correct that things could have gone much better, with the old AD scheduling all P5 teams for OOC play and then leaving us in terrible shape for the 2016 schedule. Ryan Bamford did a great job with the schedule but the damage is done. Most of the new fans around Boston did not stick because we were out classed, out coached and played terrible.

Do have maroon glasses and expecting 4-6 wins this year playing two P5 teams, BYU and several G5 conference champions.
Last year was the first good recruiting year and those guys have a year under their belts.

We also landed Western Michigan's defensive coordinator Ed Pinkham.
Everything looks maroon in regards to football.
Expecting an up year!
I have no expectations for UMass and have not even looked at the schedule. But again nice try.

I simply read your comments about tickets sales increasing and donations increasing and decided to see if that was true, and found out it really wasn't. In fact the real increase in AD budget was subsidy which accounted for most of the increase. That's really not what you described as moving to FBS to not lose as much as they were playing FBS, in realty they lost even more money operating the AD after the move which you said was what they were trying to avoid.

I really don't think there is a financial incentive to move to FBS for these schools. Quite the opposite. I think boosters love the idea and AD's love the idea but from a financial standpoint taxpayers end up footing the bill, not increases in ticket sales, donations, etc...

Get that subsidy down to 50% or better and you have an AD budget in the 20's which is FCS level for a state flagship like UMAss. UMass does not meet minimum requirements for attendance anyway so in reality they should be excluded on that alone.

I simply dont' see what they are trying to accomplish playing up a league from where they belong. Same goes for Idaho and NMSU.
02-21-2017 02:46 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
Coaches salaries are the biggest difference between FCS and FBS, if an FCS school has FBS facilties. Get a good young coach from FCS or DII ranks, pay the 25% more, which is still dirt cheap for FBS, and the FBS money problem has been largely solved except for Title IX.
02-21-2017 03:21 PM
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p23570
Unregistered

 
CrappiesNew Orleans Bowl
Post: #59
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
So becasue the numbers prove I'm right you neg rep me. LOL. Steve 1981.

Where in those numbers do you see an advantage for UMass starting in 2012? Feel free to make you case. I just don't see it.
02-21-2017 03:33 PM
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Minutemen429 Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Cost of FBS vs FCS football
(02-21-2017 02:46 PM)p23570 Wrote:  
(02-21-2017 01:39 PM)Steve1981 Wrote:  The Athletic department has gone through major changes and the budget has gone from 25.2 Mill to 36.5 Million. In 5 years the budget increased 11.3 Million, 45%.

My point was strictly responding to ArkState fan work on FCS vs FBS.

You are correct that things could have gone much better, with the old AD scheduling all P5 teams for OOC play and then leaving us in terrible shape for the 2016 schedule. Ryan Bamford did a great job with the schedule but the damage is done. Most of the new fans around Boston did not stick because we were out classed, out coached and played terrible.

Do have maroon glasses and expecting 4-6 wins this year playing two P5 teams, BYU and several G5 conference champions.
Last year was the first good recruiting year and those guys have a year under their belts.

We also landed Western Michigan's defensive coordinator Ed Pinkham.
Everything looks maroon in regards to football.
Expecting an up year!
I have no expectations for UMass and have not even looked at the schedule. But again nice try.

I simply read your comments about tickets sales increasing and donations increasing and decided to see if that was true, and found out it really wasn't. In fact the real increase in AD budget was subsidy which accounted for most of the increase. That's really not what you described as moving to FBS to not lose as much as they were playing FBS, in realty they lost even more money operating the AD after the move which you said was what they were trying to avoid.

I really don't think there is a financial incentive to move to FBS for these schools. Quite the opposite. I think boosters love the idea and AD's love the idea but from a financial standpoint taxpayers end up footing the bill, not increases in ticket sales, donations, etc...

Get that subsidy down to 50% or better and you have an AD budget in the 20's which is FCS level for a state flagship like UMAss. UMass does not meet minimum requirements for attendance anyway so in reality they should be excluded on that alone.

I simply dont' see what they are trying to accomplish playing up a league from where they belong. Same goes for Idaho and NMSU.

Let me ask you one thing, what do you thing the athletic budget of UMass would be if we went FCS? Do you think it would be in the $20's like you say?
02-21-2017 03:58 PM
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