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Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Liberty is like the BYU of the East in terms of support and money and now will increase that with the FBS move. They even have their own TV channel like BYU to show games on it.

Schools who play in non football conferences will have a best chance to move up as they don't disturb the conference. I think since the Big South has a few non football members they willing to keep them in the fold. Also, have to think that with the relationship with the A-Sun(?) they good still with football since the FCS has more flexible rules.

BYU TV is a free station available to people everywhere. I know because I used to watch a western tv show on BYU tv when I had no cable, or Amazon fire stick. I got the 4 major networks, PBS, Telemundo and Univision and a few Christian stations like CBN and TBN. Which one of those is the "Liberty channel"?
Cheers!
K TV I believe. I came across a channel that was showing Liberty football and basketball games.

Also while BYU TV is ota in Provo, they are not on all cable packages across the US.
02-16-2017 08:24 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
Liberty has a agreement with ESPN to carry all sports we televise. Traditional channels are having less of an influence these days as opposed to availability on multiple platforms. It is a rare Liberty game in any of the primary sports that isn't televised. Even our swimming and softball programs get plenty of exposure which plays well to the families of recruits.

This move does not mean that we have stopped pursuing conference membership. But we aren't counting on it in the meantime. Being a full FBS member certainly positions us better than being stuck in the Big South.
02-16-2017 08:28 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:24 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Liberty is like the BYU of the East in terms of support and money and now will increase that with the FBS move. They even have their own TV channel like BYU to show games on it.

Schools who play in non football conferences will have a best chance to move up as they don't disturb the conference. I think since the Big South has a few non football members they willing to keep them in the fold. Also, have to think that with the relationship with the A-Sun(?) they good still with football since the FCS has more flexible rules.

BYU TV is a free station available to people everywhere. I know because I used to watch a western tv show on BYU tv when I had no cable, or Amazon fire stick. I got the 4 major networks, PBS, Telemundo and Univision and a few Christian stations like CBN and TBN. Which one of those is the "Liberty channel"?
Cheers!
K TV I believe. I came across a channel that was showing Liberty football and basketball games.

Also while BYU TV is ota in Provo, they are not on all cable packages across the US.

Really? I've seen a BYU TV in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico...I travel a lot. Where isn't BYU TV offered? I'm not talking cable tv. FREE OTA.

Cheers!
02-16-2017 08:30 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:28 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  Liberty has a agreement with ESPN to carry all sports we televise. Traditional channels are having less of an influence these days as opposed to availability on multiple platforms. It is a rare Liberty game in any of the primary sports that isn't televised. Even our swimming and softball programs get plenty of exposure which plays well to the families of recruits.

This move does not mean that we have stopped pursuing conference membership. But we aren't counting on it in the meantime. Being a full FBS member certainly positions us better than being stuck in the Big South.

Wait what? Liberty has a deal with ESPN??

Cheers!
02-16-2017 08:31 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
We are one of only a couple of schools with an agreement for them to carry our LU-produced telecasts on their platforms. We've had this arrangement for several years now.
02-16-2017 08:34 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 07:57 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 07:35 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 07:28 PM)TOPSTRAIGHT Wrote:  What ark30inf said. (I hope)

Why are you and ark30 against this? I'm missing something obvious that's potentially bad for your schools right? What is it? At least they aren't going to the SB.
Cheers!
I actually advocated for this when Liberty was seeking SBC membership. They can make it big this way if they do it right. I wish them luck.

But I don't see this as an open doorway for all.

Liberty must have made a heck of a case for why they belong in FBS.

You aren't seeing DII schools getting waivers to become DI that want to move up which is a lot easier than moving into FBS.

NCAA speaks up.....

Quote:The NCAA waiver approval was based upon Liberty providing substantial information demonstrating its readiness to begin the reclassification process, Liberty's ability to follow current FBS institutions who have demonstrated viability without a conference affiliation and the university's ability to satisfy FBS requirements.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/football/articl...on-process

This sounds like an institution would need basically everything to make the move.

-Continued conference affiliation after the move
-Evidence of home FBS contracts
-Solid attendance 15,000+
-Program success

Liberty vs. Coastal has become a rivalry and with Coastal moving up they might want to continue it.
02-16-2017 08:35 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:22 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  Western Indy League:

Idaho
Montana
Montana St
E Washington
Portland St
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sacramento St
New Mexico St

Eastern Indy League:
UMass
Stony Brook
James Madison
Liberty
Jacksonville St
Youngstown St
Illinois St
North Dakota St
South Dakota St
Missouri St


Central Indy League:
Sam Houston State
Lamar
SFA
Wichita State
Missouri State
Central Arkansas
Illinois State
North Dakota State
South Dakota
South Dakota State
New Mexico State

Eastern Indy League:
James Madison
Liberty
Youngstown State
Delaware
UMAss.
Eastern Kentucky
Jacksonville State
Kennesaw State
New Hampshire
Stony Brook
Albany

I might add Azusa Pacific, West Texas A&M and Weber State down the road in the future.
02-16-2017 08:35 PM
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HuskyU Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:30 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:24 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Liberty is like the BYU of the East in terms of support and money and now will increase that with the FBS move. They even have their own TV channel like BYU to show games on it.

Schools who play in non football conferences will have a best chance to move up as they don't disturb the conference. I think since the Big South has a few non football members they willing to keep them in the fold. Also, have to think that with the relationship with the A-Sun(?) they good still with football since the FCS has more flexible rules.

BYU TV is a free station available to people everywhere. I know because I used to watch a western tv show on BYU tv when I had no cable, or Amazon fire stick. I got the 4 major networks, PBS, Telemundo and Univision and a few Christian stations like CBN and TBN. Which one of those is the "Liberty channel"?
Cheers!
K TV I believe. I came across a channel that was showing Liberty football and basketball games.

Also while BYU TV is ota in Provo, they are not on all cable packages across the US.

Really? I've seen a BYU TV in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico...I travel a lot. Where isn't BYU TV offered? I'm not talking cable tv. FREE OTA.

Cheers!

Not offered in CT or Mass.
02-16-2017 08:36 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:30 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:24 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Liberty is like the BYU of the East in terms of support and money and now will increase that with the FBS move. They even have their own TV channel like BYU to show games on it.

Schools who play in non football conferences will have a best chance to move up as they don't disturb the conference. I think since the Big South has a few non football members they willing to keep them in the fold. Also, have to think that with the relationship with the A-Sun(?) they good still with football since the FCS has more flexible rules.

BYU TV is a free station available to people everywhere. I know because I used to watch a western tv show on BYU tv when I had no cable, or Amazon fire stick. I got the 4 major networks, PBS, Telemundo and Univision and a few Christian stations like CBN and TBN. Which one of those is the "Liberty channel"?
Cheers!
K TV I believe. I came across a channel that was showing Liberty football and basketball games.

Also while BYU TV is ota in Provo, they are not on all cable packages across the US.

Really? I've seen a BYU TV in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico...I travel a lot. Where isn't BYU TV offered? I'm not talking cable tv. FREE OTA.

Cheers!
Not in San Antonio. No OTA there.
Didn't know they had OTA stations elsewhere.
02-16-2017 08:40 PM
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SlyFox Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Liberty must have made a heck of a case for why they belong in FBS.

You aren't seeing DII schools getting waivers to become DI that want to move up which is a lot easier than moving into FBS.

Emmert had a campus visit just a week or so ago. Anyone who visits the campus and sees the facilities has a hard time explaining why the school is not receiving a conference invitation. Whatever the motivation, I am just glad this has finally gone down. Now comes the hard part of making it work.
02-16-2017 08:41 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
If this is going to require from candidates a history of putting 15k fans in the stands and being able to afford the 85 scholarships not many schools could entertain it.

2015 FCS attendance leaders:

1.Montana 24,139
2. Jacksonville State 20,589
4. James Madison 19,498
5. Montana State 19,172
7. North Dakota State 18,497
9. Delaware 15,826

Only 6 schools that can make an automatic case for FBS. Attendance is on the decline nationally so its becoming tougher to do 15,000.

The loss of these schools of course would bring down averages and general fan interest in their conferences.
02-16-2017 08:46 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:41 PM)SlyFox Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:35 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  Liberty must have made a heck of a case for why they belong in FBS.

You aren't seeing DII schools getting waivers to become DI that want to move up which is a lot easier than moving into FBS.

Emmert had a campus visit just a week or so ago. Anyone who visits the campus and sees the facilities has a hard time explaining why the school is not receiving a conference invitation. Whatever the motivation, I am just glad this has finally gone down. Now comes the hard part of making it work.

Those 5 home games for 2019 will be tough to come by. Maybe Liberty will catch a break and the SBC will need for football only or a CUSA split that makes Liberty attractive.
02-16-2017 08:49 PM
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NewTimes Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 07:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Its only a loophole if they grant a waiver. They granted a waiver to Liberty because they don't want a religious discrimination lawsuit. That would not be the case with others seeking a waiver.

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Agree 100%. It was a lawsuit loss if the NCAA had denied the waiver.
02-16-2017 08:51 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 06:34 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  The NCAA has shown it doesn't want to go to court to defend its oh-so-airtight rulebook and conference invite rule. So the rule may technically still be in place but the precedent is set.
Liberty is an asterisk. It's not the average situation. They could have Bama's budget and still not get an invite. Hence the waiver.
02-16-2017 08:52 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:46 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If this is going to require from candidates a history of putting 15k fans in the stands and being able to afford the 85 scholarships not many schools could entertain it.

2015 FCS attendance leaders:

1.Montana 24,139
2. Jacksonville State 20,589
4. James Madison 19,498
5. Montana State 19,172
7. North Dakota State 18,497
9. Delaware 15,826

Only 6 schools that can make an automatic case for FBS. Attendance is on the decline nationally so its becoming tougher to do 15,000.

The loss of these schools of course would bring down averages and general fan interest in their conferences.


Im not sure that rule would hold up either. It seems it would be easy to demonstrate several fbs school do not maintain that level of attendance. And especially the fact that ccu was allowed to join with a stadium that doesn hold 15k.
02-16-2017 08:52 PM
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Kittonhead Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:52 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:46 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If this is going to require from candidates a history of putting 15k fans in the stands and being able to afford the 85 scholarships not many schools could entertain it.

2015 FCS attendance leaders:

1.Montana 24,139
2. Jacksonville State 20,589
4. James Madison 19,498
5. Montana State 19,172
7. North Dakota State 18,497
9. Delaware 15,826

Only 6 schools that can make an automatic case for FBS. Attendance is on the decline nationally so its becoming tougher to do 15,000.

The loss of these schools of course would bring down averages and general fan interest in their conferences.


Im not sure that rule would hold up either. It seems it would be easy to demonstrate several fbs school do not maintain that level of attendance. And especially the fact that ccu was allowed to join with a stadium that doesn hold 15k.

They had a conference invite. Different situation.
02-16-2017 08:55 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:40 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:30 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:24 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:14 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Liberty is like the BYU of the East in terms of support and money and now will increase that with the FBS move. They even have their own TV channel like BYU to show games on it.

Schools who play in non football conferences will have a best chance to move up as they don't disturb the conference. I think since the Big South has a few non football members they willing to keep them in the fold. Also, have to think that with the relationship with the A-Sun(?) they good still with football since the FCS has more flexible rules.

BYU TV is a free station available to people everywhere. I know because I used to watch a western tv show on BYU tv when I had no cable, or Amazon fire stick. I got the 4 major networks, PBS, Telemundo and Univision and a few Christian stations like CBN and TBN. Which one of those is the "Liberty channel"?
Cheers!
K TV I believe. I came across a channel that was showing Liberty football and basketball games.

Also while BYU TV is ota in Provo, they are not on all cable packages across the US.

Really? I've seen a BYU TV in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico...I travel a lot. Where isn't BYU TV offered? I'm not talking cable tv. FREE OTA.

Cheers!
Not in San Antonio. No OTA there.
Didn't know they had OTA stations elsewhere.

I saw it at hotels in other states and at relatives houses...maybe it was cable? I assumed it was OTA. I guess I was wrong.

Cheers!
02-16-2017 08:57 PM
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cleburneslim Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:55 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:52 PM)cleburneslim Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:46 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If this is going to require from candidates a history of putting 15k fans in the stands and being able to afford the 85 scholarships not many schools could entertain it.

2015 FCS attendance leaders:

1.Montana 24,139
2. Jacksonville State 20,589
4. James Madison 19,498
5. Montana State 19,172
7. North Dakota State 18,497
9. Delaware 15,826

Only 6 schools that can make an automatic case for FBS. Attendance is on the decline nationally so its becoming tougher to do 15,000.

The loss of these schools of course would bring down averages and general fan interest in their conferences.


Im not sure that rule would hold up either. It seems it would be easy to demonstrate several fbs school do not maintain that level of attendance. And especially the fact that ccu was allowed to join with a stadium that doesn hold 15k.

They had a conference invite. Different situation.

The conference invite has now been eliminated as the only way in. A court will not hold up the addition of a 9500 attendance addition and deny another. Also it would be difficult to deny based on stadium size since ccu was admitted with a high school sized stadium.
02-16-2017 09:01 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Online
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Post: #59
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:51 PM)NewTimes Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 07:05 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  Its only a loophole if they grant a waiver. They granted a waiver to Liberty because they don't want a religious discrimination lawsuit. That would not be the case with others seeking a waiver.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk
Agree 100%. It was a lawsuit loss if the NCAA had denied the waiver.

The NCAA just didn't want to fight it. They can simply amend their rules to state that FBS or NCAA membership is contingent upon non discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, marital status, or religion at some future point. LU would of course have the choice of complying with the rules or leaving at that point.

I'm not sure there'd be a loss on religious discrimination grounds, especially seeing as LU discriminates in athletic employment on the basis of religion.

I think Dale v Boy Scouts would put an end to most LU claims. Or claims by other schools.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 09:05 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
02-16-2017 09:02 PM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Did rules change on FCS moving up without a conference?
(02-16-2017 08:57 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:40 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:30 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:24 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(02-16-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  BYU TV is a free station available to people everywhere. I know because I used to watch a western tv show on BYU tv when I had no cable, or Amazon fire stick. I got the 4 major networks, PBS, Telemundo and Univision and a few Christian stations like CBN and TBN. Which one of those is the "Liberty channel"?
Cheers!
K TV I believe. I came across a channel that was showing Liberty football and basketball games.

Also while BYU TV is ota in Provo, they are not on all cable packages across the US.

Really? I've seen a BYU TV in Texas, Oklahoma and New Mexico...I travel a lot. Where isn't BYU TV offered? I'm not talking cable tv. FREE OTA.

Cheers!
Not in San Antonio. No OTA there.
Didn't know they had OTA stations elsewhere.

I saw it at hotels in other states and at relatives houses...maybe it was cable? I assumed it was OTA. I guess I was wrong.

Cheers!

Yeah...if it was in hotels it was cable. They are on the basic package in quite a few cable operators.
02-16-2017 09:10 PM
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