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Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 01:52 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  While they are the only game in town, we have BSU in our state and Washington State about an 8 minute drive away.

True, WA St as well ... forgot about that! That is a tough one to deal with. A very unique situation, no doubt.

...and the phenomenon that is Gonzaga basketball is 90 miles away in the nearest metro to Moscow.

(02-14-2017 01:52 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  And we've been playing FBS football for 20 years so our fans have a certain level of expectation and pride, and all our historic rivals save Montana are FBS schools.

I get that too. I imagine Boise moved because Idaho did. Or perhaps the other way around, looks like you both left in 1996.


UI had an invitation to join the PCAA in 1973 and the ISBOE narrowly voted to deny the Vandals that opportunity. BSU had an invitation to join the Big West in 1992 and move up with Nevada but was also denied by the ISBOE. In 1996 BSU, after having averaged more then 20,000 in attendance and built up to a 30,000 seat stadium (meeting the then D1A requirements) was ready to accept a BWC invitation but it would not have been politically possible for BSU to move up without UI. BSU AD assisted president Zinser and the AD at UI in preparing their applications. Both schools joined the BWC in 1996 with BSU being D1A and UI being D1AA in that season as they did not meet D1A requirements (they did so by leasing WSU's Martin Stadium)..

But which other rivals are you talking about? Nevada, sure. But who else?

The Big Sky timeline from the 1960's to the 1990's shows that only Boise, Idaho, and Nevada left for FBS. Montana, Montana St, Idaho St, Weber St, N AZ, and E WA, are all still there.


(02-14-2017 01:52 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Add it all up and the correct choices are either to try to stick it out in FBS or drop scholarship football altogether. The Big Sky is the worst of all worlds for Idaho.

The kicker is WA St.

If you live in the area, and don't have a direct affiliation to U Idaho ... and you want to watch a football game on Sat night. Yeah, that's a tough one to overcome.


(02-14-2017 02:11 PM)goofus Wrote:  Why would it be ridiculous to invest in the state university that is in the part of the state where people actually live?

If you were starting from scratch, perhaps it wouldn't be ridiculous.

But given the higher ed situation in Idaho, there is simply no way that the state of Idaho is going to pour truckloads of cash into Boise that it would take to catch up and surpass UI on the academic/research side.


This is true but despite this, BSU is growing research and graduate programs at a remarkably quick rate. BSU is now R3, the same as ISU. They are projected to be R2 at the next evaluation (the same as UI).


(02-14-2017 08:16 PM)billings Wrote:  how dare those colleges want an agriculture focus and to be in the heart of ag country.

I don't think Idaho was founded specifically to serve agriculture, like Montana St, the Dakota State's, and the land-grants in the Northeast US were. Of course, NDSU is in Fargo ... while the others I mention are in smaller towns.

But the point is well taken.

UI's mission and breadth of programming goes well beyond traditional agriculture and engineering of land grant schools. They were historically virtually the only higher education choice in the state and were able to grow accordingly. The status of UI both academically and athletically would have been greatly enhanced if Idaho had followed Wyoming and developed a strong community college system with one state university rather than 5 public four year schools (one was closed) and only 2 CCs (there are now 4).


(02-15-2017 10:19 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  They do not belong in FBS and never did.

Very naive position to take.

You have to look at the situation in the mid 90's. That was the climate that precipitated the move. Idaho was very competitive in football, back then. The rivalry with Boise was actually much more even. Nevada had left the Big Sky for DI-A.

The costs of DI-A vs DI-AA were not nearly as significant as FCS vs FBS are now.

Not sure if Boise or Idaho struck first, but the other quickly followed.


Agreed. UI had a long tradition of playing football at the highest level (where they have been for the large majority of their existence). If they qualified for the highest level and that is where they wanted to be, good for them.


(02-15-2017 11:05 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  My main position is that scholarship FCS football is an obviously and blatantly stupid place for Idaho to go.

I don't agree with the word stupid, per se.

I can guarantee that it won't save money. So put another way, I can guarantee that Idaho football will be spending just about the same money as it does now.


But ... if Idaho can get back to being a winner in the Big Sky. That is something. Something nice to have. May be meaningless to you alumni who've tasted the FBS "big time" and can't live with less than that, but believe me it is something.


If UI is to ever return to the FBS it will be because they have been successful and have grown their program in the FCS BSC. They will never return if they go to a lower level or drop football.


(02-15-2017 11:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  Look up interstate 11. They are already building the Phoenix-Las Vegas part and planning Tuscon-Phoenix and Las Vegas-Reno.

Yeah but it looks like the proposals for Reno to Spokane run through the tri-cities of southwestern Washington. It would only be a big benefit to the Moscow-Lewiston-Pullman area if the interstate ran through there up to Spokane.


(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 03:15 PM by Bronco85.)
02-15-2017 04:14 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #62
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 02:01 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I get that too. I imagine Boise moved because Idaho did. Or perhaps the other way around, looks like you both left in 1996.

Boise made the first move. Our admin didn't really want to go at the time. But we were the state's leading school in every way and we also dominated Boise on the football field, so there was no way the powerbrokers around the school could let them move up without us going too. So we went 1A without any true commitment from school leadership and then half-assed it for 2 decades until we got into this miserable state.

I like to think UI made the first move in 1973 when they had an invitation to the PCAA (Big West). The ISBOE rebuked the Vandals and would do the same to BSU in 1992 when the Broncos had an invitation from the Big West and wanted to move up with Nevada. There was no way in 1996 the ISBOE would have let either UI or BSU move up alone so the schools actually worked together (particularly the Athletic Departments and presidents) to be a package deal with the BWC. It is true however, that BSU made the changes to qualify for then then D1A stadium size and attendance requirements prior to moving and UI did not. This is why UI was a provisional BWC member in football and was still classified as D1AA in 1996.
02-15-2017 04:21 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 04:21 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 02:01 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I get that too. I imagine Boise moved because Idaho did. Or perhaps the other way around, looks like you both left in 1996.

Boise made the first move. Our admin didn't really want to go at the time. But we were the state's leading school in every way and we also dominated Boise on the football field, so there was no way the powerbrokers around the school could let them move up without us going too. So we went 1A without any true commitment from school leadership and then half-assed it for 2 decades until we got into this miserable state.

I like to think UI made the first move in 1973 when they had an invitation to the PCAA (Big West). The ISBOE rebuked the Vandals and would do the same to BSU in 1992 when the Broncos had an invitation from the Big West and wanted to move up with Nevada. There was no way in 1996 the ISBOE would have let either UI or BSU move up alone so the schools actually worked together (particularly the Athletic Departments and presidents) to be a package deal with the BWC. It is true however, that BSU made the changes to qualify for then then D1A stadium size and attendance requirements prior to moving and UI did not. This is why UI was a provisional BWC member in football and was still classified as D1AA in 1996.

All correct, but since both Idaho and BSU had a totally different set of administrators in 1996 than they did in 1973 I'm not sure how connected those events really are.
02-15-2017 04:32 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
Real interesting question to me: if the NCAA did not have the preposterous 30k stadium capacity requirement back then, would Boise have upgraded for the move?

And if we pretend for a second that Boise would've been fine moving up at 20k and Idaho could've moved up with its regular 15k stadium (and not leased WSU's stadium), would it have evolved differently?


It's just clear to me that Idaho and Boise were near equals going into the DI-A/FBS adventure ... and then over the course of time, Boise took off like a rocket while Idaho languished and eventually hit rock bottom. Idaho has rebounded a bit, and Boise has cooled a bit. At least in terms of the all-time high era of Boise, beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl. That was 10 years ago now?
02-15-2017 05:36 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 04:32 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 04:21 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 02:01 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I get that too. I imagine Boise moved because Idaho did. Or perhaps the other way around, looks like you both left in 1996.

Boise made the first move. Our admin didn't really want to go at the time. But we were the state's leading school in every way and we also dominated Boise on the football field, so there was no way the powerbrokers around the school could let them move up without us going too. So we went 1A without any true commitment from school leadership and then half-assed it for 2 decades until we got into this miserable state.

I like to think UI made the first move in 1973 when they had an invitation to the PCAA (Big West). The ISBOE rebuked the Vandals and would do the same to BSU in 1992 when the Broncos had an invitation from the Big West and wanted to move up with Nevada. There was no way in 1996 the ISBOE would have let either UI or BSU move up alone so the schools actually worked together (particularly the Athletic Departments and presidents) to be a package deal with the BWC. It is true however, that BSU made the changes to qualify for then then D1A stadium size and attendance requirements prior to moving and UI did not. This is why UI was a provisional BWC member in football and was still classified as D1AA in 1996.

All correct, but since both Idaho and BSU had a totally different set of administrators in 1996 than they did in 1973 I'm not sure how connected those events really are.

They are connected only in they show a concerted effort by UI to "move up" prior to 1996. There has always been some desire at UI by some of its fans, alums, and even administrators to play at the highest level where the bulk of their history resides. The 1973 effort really was an attempt by many in the UI AD to remain viable as a D1 football program as the BSC was then D2 (and the loss of the opportunity to join the PCAA in 1973 led directly to UI's first drop to D1AA in 1978). In a similar fashion to the decision in 2016 to drop to 1AA in 2018, boosters who supported playing at the highest level felt disenfranchised and many dropped support. The 1973 decision was really about internal divisiveness at the UI and fracturing the Vandals into a BSC camp(a promise of reduced spending, the myth of more money for academics, travel savings, regional rivals) vs. the PCAA camp (more exposure for UI playing at the D1 level, being with peer schools, maintaining the in-state lead over ISU and BSU, possibility of more income via broader media exposure). The odd thing to this observer is just how the leadership at UI has refused to learn from their past (likely because they are completely ignorant of it).
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 03:19 PM by Bronco85.)
02-15-2017 05:37 PM
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Post: #66
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 05:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Real interesting question to me: if the NCAA did not have the preposterous 30k stadium capacity requirement back then, would Boise have upgraded for the move?

And if we pretend for a second that Boise would've been fine moving up at 20k and Idaho could've moved up with its regular 15k stadium (and not leased WSU's stadium), would it have evolved differently?


It's just clear to me that Idaho and Boise were near equals going into the DI-A/FBS adventure ... and then over the course of time, Boise took off like a rocket while Idaho languished and eventually hit rock bottom. Idaho has rebounded a bit, and Boise has cooled a bit. At least in terms of the all-time high era of Boise, beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl. That was 10 years ago now?

Interesting that everybody seems to remember BSU's incredible Fiesta bowl victory over Oklahoma in 2006 season, but can't remember BSU's more recent Fiesta bowl victories following the 2009 and 2014 seasons.
02-15-2017 06:05 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
Update -- Idaho motion tabled until April, because Idaho has no clear plan to reduce its deficit. Super job, guys.
02-15-2017 06:39 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #68
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 05:37 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  They are connected only in they show a concerted effort by UI to "move up" prior to 1996. There has always been some desire at UI by some of its fans, alums, and even administrators to play at the highest level where the bulk of their history resides. The 1973 effort really was an attempt by many in the UI AD to remain viable as a D1 football program as the BSC was then D2 (and the loss of the opportunity to join the PCAA in 1973 led directly to UI's first drop to D1AA in 1978). In a similar fashion to the decision in 2016 to drop to 1AA in 2018, boosters who supported playing at the highest level felt disenfranchised and many dropped support. The 1973 decision was really about internal divisiveness at the UI and fracturing the Vandals into a BSC camp(a promise of reduced spending, the myth of more money for academics, travel savings, regional rivals) vs. the PCAA camp (more exposure for UI playing at the D1 level, being with peer schools, maintaining the in-state lead over UI and BSU, possibility of more income via broader media exposure). The odd thing to this observer is just how the leadership at UI has refused to learn from their past (likely because they are completely ignorant of it).

It's amazed me how many things Chuck Staben didn't know when he made this decision. I'm sure this was one of them.
02-15-2017 07:06 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 05:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Real interesting question to me: if the NCAA did not have the preposterous 30k stadium capacity requirement back then, would Boise have upgraded for the move?

The NCAA did have that requirement and BSU upgraded their stadium prior to, and for the purpose of, moving up. The NCAA had an alternative requirement of having actual attendance greater than 17,000 fans. BSU also pre-qualified on this standard prior to moving up. BSU was serious and had built significantly prior to moving up to assure they would be desirable to the BWC. UI did not make either requirement until they rented Martin Stadium from WSU. UI went back to the dome when the NCAA requirement was watered down to having a 15,000 tickes sold over a 2 year average as the qualifier for the top division (which any school can do). This was probably unfortunate in the long run because it was a powerful disincentive to UI from making any meaningful upgrade to their gameday facilities.

And if we pretend for a second that Boise would've been fine moving up at 20k and Idaho could've moved up with its regular 15k stadium (and not leased WSU's stadium), would it have evolved differently?

BSU was not fine moving up at 20K and in fact had already upgraded to 30k for seating capacity in Bronco Stadium. They did not technically need to since they met the 17,000 actual attendance requirement but the AD had the foresight to plan and build to be the most attractive to the BWC as they could be (including starting a bowl for the BWC after the BWC lost the Fresno and Las Vegas bowls). UI could not move up (at least not in 1997) without leasing Martin Stadium. But let's go with your "what if" senario. Judging from the fact BSU continued to build and upgrade both FB and BB facilities and UI did very little to nothing on their game day facilities (they have had a BB arena on their master plan since 1950 and have never built one yet), I suspect we would be right where we are today.


It's just clear to me that Idaho and Boise were near equals going into the DI-A/FBS adventure ... and then over the course of time, Boise took off like a rocket while Idaho languished and eventually hit rock bottom. Idaho has rebounded a bit, and Boise has cooled a bit. At least in terms of the all-time high era of Boise, beating Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl. That was 10 years ago now?

Yes, the win over OU was over 10 years ago. BSU finished #5 in the AP and 6 in the coaches poll then. The Broncos would go on to finish ranked 11, 13 in 2008, 4,4 in 2009, 9,7 in 2010, 8, 6 in 2011, 18, 14 in 2012, and 16, 16 in 2014. (They also had top 25 finishes prior to 2006). They would win 2 more Fiesta Bowls after the OU win. No FBS school has won more football games this century than BSU at 186-35-0 .842 (Ohio State is second at 169-39-0 .813 - and no, BSU is not historically better than the OSU). Lots of teams hope desperately for this sort of "cooling".
02-15-2017 07:56 PM
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Bronco85 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 07:06 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 05:37 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  They are connected only in they show a concerted effort by UI to "move up" prior to 1996. There has always been some desire at UI by some of its fans, alums, and even administrators to play at the highest level where the bulk of their history resides. The 1973 effort really was an attempt by many in the UI AD to remain viable as a D1 football program as the BSC was then D2 (and the loss of the opportunity to join the PCAA in 1973 led directly to UI's first drop to D1AA in 1978). In a similar fashion to the decision in 2016 to drop to 1AA in 2018, boosters who supported playing at the highest level felt disenfranchised and many dropped support. The 1973 decision was really about internal divisiveness at the UI and fracturing the Vandals into a BSC camp(a promise of reduced spending, the myth of more money for academics, travel savings, regional rivals) vs. the PCAA camp (more exposure for UI playing at the D1 level, being with peer schools, maintaining the in-state lead over UI and BSU, possibility of more income via broader media exposure). The odd thing to this observer is just how the leadership at UI has refused to learn from their past (likely because they are completely ignorant of it).

It's amazed me how many things Chuck Staben didn't know when he made this decision. I'm sure this was one of them.

Judging by the response today at the ISBOE meeting and his switch from costs to competitiveness* as an excuse to drop down, it would seem simple accounting is not one of the strengths of your president, either. I would hate to think all that stood between UI and FBS was a $29.95 QuickBooks CD.

*(nice blow out of CSU in the bowl game, your "noncompetitive team" beat the Rams much worse than did BSU on the same field)
02-15-2017 08:08 PM
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Post: #71
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 02:32 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 02:11 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 01:44 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 11:43 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 03:46 AM)goofus Wrote:  The state of Idaho should start thinking about tweaking the flagship status of its schools.

I really doubt there's a big plaque hanging in the U of ID president's office that says "Official Flagship University of the state of Idaho". And even if there was one, what does it matter?? Idaho gets less money from the state than Boise does, already.


Boise is a junior college, when it comes to research and academics, compared to Idaho and Washington State.

Thank you for tackling this for me. Buncha goofballs on message boards keep thinking you can just hang a "flagship" sign in front of the BSU campus and problem solved. The truth is, we are light years ahead of them academically and it would take a ridiculous investment for them to catch up. Idaho isn't really in the business of making ridiculous investments in education.

Why would it be ridiculous to invest in the state university that is in the part of the state where people actually live? Thw Boise area has grown to 600k+ people. Moscow has 25k. Nobody wants to move or travel to Moscow. Its a remote part of the state and Washington St University already has the area covered anyway Whats the point of having the #1 school in Idaho there? history? Stupid pride? Its not worth it. Time to do the state a favor and demote the school just like they demoted the football team.

So Illinois should move to Chicago.
Alabama to Birmingham.
Get Kansas out of Lawrence. Too Small
Penn State in State College? Sad.
Clemson? Move the college to Charleston.

And let's merge Iowa State and Iowa, move them to Des Moines.

Well, to be fair, Moscow is in the middle of nowhere. There is a difference even if the idea is silly, don't represent the geographical area.
02-15-2017 10:16 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 08:08 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  Judging by the response today at the ISBOE meeting and his switch from costs to competitiveness* as an excuse to drop down, it would seem simple accounting is not one of the strengths of your president, either. I would hate to think all that stood between UI and FBS was a $29.95 QuickBooks CD.

*(nice blow out of CSU in the bowl game, your "noncompetitive team" beat the Rams much worse than did BSU on the same field)

The costs argument has been blown out of the water 900 times by now, including by his own AD, and the fact that we went 9-4 and won a bowl game last year is poking a pretty big hole in the competitiveness argument. So mostly he's just gone silent. He didn't even come to the SBOE meeting today -- some poor finance guy had to stammer and lie for him.

And thanks for the bowl kudos. The fact is, we've had a lot of bad seasons in FBS but we've also had some good ones and there are a number of teams in the G5 who've had about our level of success on the field.
02-15-2017 10:37 PM
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RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 10:37 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 08:08 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  Judging by the response today at the ISBOE meeting and his switch from costs to competitiveness* as an excuse to drop down, it would seem simple accounting is not one of the strengths of your president, either. I would hate to think all that stood between UI and FBS was a $29.95 QuickBooks CD.

*(nice blow out of CSU in the bowl game, your "noncompetitive team" beat the Rams much worse than did BSU on the same field)

The costs argument has been blown out of the water 900 times by now, including by his own AD, and the fact that we went 9-4 and won a bowl game last year is poking a pretty big hole in the competitiveness argument. So mostly he's just gone silent. He didn't even come to the SBOE meeting today -- some poor finance guy had to stammer and lie for him.

I saw that. I genuinely felt sorry for him. How do you send someone to ask for $4,000,000 dollars of bailout money and they literally have no hard numbers or financial data (or even soft projection numbers), no plan to balance the books, and have him start with a lie which he contradicts himself 4 sentences later? The board chair even appeared sorry for him.

And thanks for the bowl kudos. The fact is, we've had a lot of bad seasons in FBS but we've also had some good ones and there are a number of teams in the G5 who've had about our level of success on the field.

It is hard to see how UI won't be bowling next season. The schedule is arguably easier, the defense is finally playing well (the improvements in the secondary were incredible), and the returning senior quarterback is extremely good (although it is pretty thin behind him). The coaching stability is the best its been in a long time. The way the players and coaches have used the drop down as a rallying point rather than a reason to bail on the university is remarkable. I trust you Vandals are justifiably proud of them.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 03:22 PM by Bronco85.)
02-16-2017 10:44 AM
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RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 01:48 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But which other rivals are you talking about? Nevada, sure. But who else?

The Big Sky timeline from the 1960's to the 1990's shows that only Boise, Idaho, and Nevada left for FBS. Montana, Montana St, Idaho St, Weber St, N AZ, and E WA, are all still there.

BSU, Washington St. & Nevada are the big 3 in that order. Utah St. is also a good one. Besides Montana, Idaho fans never really had any interest in the other Big Sky schools. EWU was new to the conference when we left. The school is now trying to force that into a rivalry but it hasn't met with any real interest from the fanbase.

Montana will always be a good rival for UI. MSU and EWU could develop over time as they are truly regional and travel is not difficult. ISU? That is an odd case. They have never really been a rival for anyone. On the surface, they would seem to have an advantage over UI in that they are in a much bigger market (Pocatello/Idaho Falls) but that market goes to, in order, BYU, USU, BSU and then ISU. An FBS UI likely has at least as much media coverage in southeast Idaho as ISU. If BYU-I ever brings back athletics, interest in Bengal sports drops further. Maybe there might be some infinitesimal residual interest for nostalgic Idaho BSC fans in playing Weber in basketball or NAU. No Vandal fans really have any connection to PSU, the California schools, and will never care about SUU or UNC.

BSU has no regional rival anymore and is highly unlikely to ever develop a rivalry like the one with UI ever again. It was extremely intense and engaged the entire state. It guaranteed sell outs in the major sports (regardless or the records of either team) and created interest in the minor ones. It was feudal, territorial, and at times, downright nasty. The MWC divisions separated BSU from their only historical rival in the conference (Nevada) and the only developing rivalry they had (Fresno State). Both of those schools have other intense and in-state rivals. Maybe BYU becomes some sort of rivalry as it is played every year and the Utah series is not guaranteed. I guess USU or Wyoming might grow into a rivalry now that they finally have a victory over the Broncos. As long as BSU is winning, they will be a draw for other schools in the MWC. When BSU is down is when UI is really going to be missed.
(This post was last modified: 02-16-2017 11:30 AM by Bronco85.)
02-16-2017 11:26 AM
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Post: #75
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-16-2017 10:44 AM)Bronco85 Wrote:  It is hard to see how UI won't be bowling next season. The schedule is arguably easier, the defense is finally playing well (the improvements in the secondary were incredible), and the returning senior quarterback is extremely good (although it is pretty thin behind him). The coaching stability is the best its been in a long time. The way the players and coaches have used the drop down as a rallying point rather than a reason to bail on the university is remarkable. I trust you Vandals are justifiably proud of them.

When we drop to FCS I'm moving my athletic department contributions toward a statue of Paul Petrino spitting at a reporter outside the Kibbie Dome. What the coaches and players have done in the face of all this nonsense is incredible.
02-16-2017 11:54 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #76
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 06:05 PM)goofus Wrote:  Interesting that everybody seems to remember BSU's incredible Fiesta bowl victory over Oklahoma in 2006 season, but can't remember BSU's more recent Fiesta bowl victories following the 2009 and 2014 seasons.

2014 win over a #2x ranked Arizona is uninteresting.

On paper, I agree that the 2009 team may in fact had a better season than the 2006 team. Both coached by the brilliant Chris Peterson, which we've all seen is doing amazing things at Washington. (on a side note, I hope very, very much for a similar tale of success at Minnesota with WMU's Fleck)

The 2009 victory was over a higher ranked team, TCU. However, at that time TCU was the champion of the Mountain West, not of the Big 12. Oklahoma, on the other hand, was the Big 12 champ in 2006. And of course, the series of plays at the end of that game to score the TD, and win it with the 2pt ... will never be forgotten. Then the RB proposing to his girlfriend cheerleader. Extremely memorable.

So I don't think you really need to try that hard to understand why.


(02-15-2017 06:39 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Update -- Idaho motion tabled until April, because Idaho has no clear plan to reduce its deficit. Super job, guys.

So does that mean the official decision to move Idaho football down to FCS hasn't been officially made yet?? Any glimmer of hope??


(02-15-2017 07:56 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  The NCAA had an alternative requirement of having actual attendance greater than 17,000 fans. BSU also pre-qualified on this standard prior to moving up. BSU was serious and had built significantly prior to moving up to assure they would be desirable to the BWC.

Fair enough. Thank you for the correction.

(02-15-2017 07:56 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  UI did not make either requirement until they rented Martin Stadium from WSU. UI went back to the dome when the NCAA requirement was watered down to having a 15,000 tickes sold over a 2 year average as the qualifier for the top division (which any school can do). This was probably unfortunate in the long run because it was a powerful disincentive to UI from making any meaningful upgrade to their gameday facilities.

Great point.

Though getting back to the heart of what I was curious about ---- if the requirement had stayed 30k capacity, do you think Idaho would've actually built say a new 30k outdoor stadium?? I don't think the dome can be upgraded to anywhere near 30k capacity.

Or would they just have feathered a deal with Wash St to use Martin for Idaho home games?? While that seems very odd ... I doubt there is any other situation in the country as unique, with two P5 public flagship schools so close to each other.

(02-15-2017 07:56 PM)Bronco85 Wrote:  The Broncos would go on to finish ranked 11, 13 in 2008, 4,4 in 2009, 9,7 in 2010, 8, 6 in 2011, 18, 14 in 2012, and 16, 16 in 2014. (They also had top 25 finishes prior to 2006). They would win 2 more Fiesta Bowls after the OU win. No FBS school has won more football games this century than BSU at 186-35-0 .842 (Ohio State is second at 169-39-0 .813 - and no, BSU is not historically better than the OSU). Lots of teams hope desperately for this sort of "cooling".

Ah, just a second there. That's not really what I meant. I thought it was obvious that I was referring to just to the most recent period where Idaho has been trending up and Boise has been trending flat or down. Obviously that is 2015 and 2016 ... which you conveniently left off.

Idaho: up to 4-8 in 2015, and then breakout 2016 with 9-4 record and not just bowl game but bowl win

Boise: down to 9-4 in 2015, 10-3 in 2016 with a loss to Wyoming (I follow Craig Bohl, so I knew that) ... neither year winning the division ... yeah not terrible records, but it has been a while no CCG for Boise in back to back years! As well as not ranked even in the top 25 back to back years!
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2017 11:45 AM by MplsBison.)
02-21-2017 11:42 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-21-2017 11:42 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 06:39 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Update -- Idaho motion tabled until April, because Idaho has no clear plan to reduce its deficit. Super job, guys.

So does that mean the official decision to move Idaho football down to FCS hasn't been officially made yet?? Any glimmer of hope??

No, the Big Sky move has already been approved. A responsible SBOE would start asking questions about the deficit and the negative impact the past year has had on Idaho and reexamine the move at this point, but I expect the University to come back in April and "reluctantly" propose dropping a sport or two plus a long-term plan to bring coaching salaries down, and it will be accepted so the march to nowhere can continue.
02-21-2017 11:55 AM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #78
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
So what was the thing that was tabled until April?


Also, looking at Idaho's varsity sports offering, I think the most you could cut would be M Golf, and still be at 6 men's/8 women's/14 total.
(This post was last modified: 02-21-2017 01:20 PM by MplsBison.)
02-21-2017 01:19 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #79
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-21-2017 01:19 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  So what was the thing that was tabled until April?


Also, looking at Idaho's varsity sports offering, I think the most you could cut would be M Golf, and still be at 6 men's/8 women's/14 total.

Idaho is now projecting a $1 million annual deficit in its athletic department for at least the next 4 years. The school went to the SBOE to ask permission to redirect money to plug the hole. The SBOE expressed dismay that Idaho currently has no plan to eliminate its deficit and declined to grant the $4 million request. Idaho will have another chance at the next SBOE meeting in April.

Most likely cut is actually women's swimming & diving -- we're cutting 22 men's scholarships by going FCS so no Title IX issues. After that, it's unclear what would be next but probably not golf.
02-21-2017 01:30 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
Ah, I missed W Swim being a non-Big Sky sport.

Though most Big Sky teams also don't sponsor M Golf ... so you could cut both and still be at 6 men's/8 women's.


Is that worth $1M per year??? I'd think they'd want spending/coaching salaries for the rest of the sports to match Big Sky peer levels.
02-21-2017 01:42 PM
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