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Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 08:38 PM)dtd_vandal Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 08:31 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 07:07 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 06:49 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 03:46 AM)goofus Wrote:  Sounds like the remaining Idaho fans need a reality check. Big Sky and FCS is the best possible home for its football team. its time they get their athletic program and budget in line with that reality.

The state of Idaho should start thinking about tweaking the flagship status of its schools. The % of state population is gradually shifting more and more to the Boise area. Maybe its time to make Boise St a 2nd flagship. This may upset Idaho Alumni, but hey if there was more Idaho alumni that cared, they would have a 60k football stadium already.

I think you vastly underestimate the distances out west. It is almost a 6 hour drive from Boise to Moscow. That's the same as the distance from Sioux Falls to Iowa City. Heck, that's almost the same as the distance from Cincinnati to Iowa City.

How many Iowa fans in Sioux Falls come to multiple football games? That's not the type of trip you make multiple times in one fall.

It's unfortunate, but the population is too spread out in Idaho to support more than one FBS team.

So then sounds like you agree that Idaho should move its campus to Boise. That's where the people actually are. I am so glad that support for my idea of moving the campus to Boise is growing.

Actually Idaho has branch campuses all over Idaho including Boise. The Idaho fan can explain Idaho-Boise branch campus better than me. Before Boise St was a 4 year college, Idaho would play games in other locations, and in Boise. They stopped playing games in Boise in the 70's ot 80's. Anyone else care to jump in on this?
Cheers!

Yep there is a branch campus in Boise including a 3 year law school, along with branch campuses all over the state. Back before BSU was a 4 year college, Idaho would normally play 1 game in Boise, usually against Utah if I remember correctly.

Anyone who thinks you can just pack up a large University with hundreds of millions of dollars invested in the campus, programs, and infrastructure and move it 300 miles is a bit delusional lol.

Thanks...And of course Idaho wouldn't move. They are a college. Not a pro sports team looking to relocate.
Cheers!
02-14-2017 09:17 PM
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Wedge Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 07:13 PM)goofus Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 05:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 03:28 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  When you look up and realize you're arguing with some guy from Iowa on a sports message board about whether to move the University of Idaho 300 miles, that's when you know you need an intervention or something. I've gotta get out of here.

You should put the entire campus on wheels, so that every time the state's population distribution changes, you can move the campus to wherever the most people are.
.
(Sadly, I bet some people will take that suggestion seriously.)

Hey, that's what my high school did. When they ran out of classroom space in the main building, the brought in mobile trailers for the extra classrooms. When the high school enrollment later went back down, they got rid of the trailers. If a high school can do it, why can't you put a whole University in a trailer park?

The University of Iowa should be the first to embrace this idea. Put the whole campus in trailers and move it out of the middle of nowhere onto a vacant lot in Des Moines. Other universities will be watching to see how it works out.
02-14-2017 09:24 PM
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georgia_tech_swagger Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
If you drive by campus and stop long enough they may throw a diploma through your window at Boise State. Don't they come free with happy meals too?

Obviously I'm exaggerating, but Boise State's academics are as bad as Idaho's football team was 5 years ago. Talk of Boise State being a flagship for Idaho is just as laughable as talk of Idaho going to the Pac-12.
02-14-2017 09:34 PM
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p23570
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Post: #44
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
Didn't Idaho leave the PAC once upon a time? Wow what a bad decision.
02-14-2017 09:46 PM
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Post: #45
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 07:42 PM)Shox Wrote:  ...

I am glad someone finally had the guts to say it. Idaho is in the position it is because of a lackluster alumni base. They don't and won't support Idaho in athletics. They got a life boat and a rescue by finally joining the WAC back when it was a big deal. Since then, nothing. No facility improvements, no alumni engagement, just status quo at best. Meanwhile schools like Utah State, Wyoming and yes Boise made investments. SJSU, Idaho and to a lesser extent have circled the drain. SJSU has been save strictly by location and NMSU is a **** hair away from joining Idaho.

SJSU also has 32,000 students. Idaho barely 9,000 undergraduates. That makes a huge difference.

And yes being in a metro of 6m with one of the strongest recruiting zones for both players and students helps.
02-14-2017 09:46 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 09:46 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Didn't Idaho leave the PAC once upon a time? Wow what a bad decision.

Idaho and Montana didn't leave. The California schools and Washington disbanded the Pacific Coast Conference and formed their own Association of Western Universities, and later invited back the Oregon schools and Wash St. Even while in the theb PCC, Idaho and Montana rarely were the home fb team. Idaho had strived to be FBS in remembrance of their former big time connections til now, and that jilting was historically a big reason. Idaho managed to conserve being a top flight IA school for a time even when they were in the Big Sky. The jilting also seemed to effect the Montanas, who's board doesn't want to take a risk, doesnt allow separation of the two, or get in a league over their heads, after Utah and Colorado schools abandoned Mt State and the Skyline Conference too.
(This post was last modified: 02-14-2017 11:00 PM by NoDak.)
02-14-2017 10:43 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 09:46 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Didn't Idaho leave the PAC once upon a time? Wow what a bad decision.

I don't think they did. The old conference that the current PAC schools were in disbanded leaving them behind. The teams reformed with a new conference and didn't invite Idaho.
Cheers!
02-14-2017 10:55 PM
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DawgNBama Online
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Post: #48
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
I have no problem with the University of Idaho being located in Moscow, Idaho. Who cares that Washington State is a mere ten miles away? These are two different schools, serving two different states. And the University of Idaho does need to be the land grant for the state of Idaho, given its location in the state of Idaho. That being said, Boise State University does need to significantly improve its academics. Maybe merge with Idaho State, and become the state of Idaho's other flagship university? (U of I would be more agricultural and engineering centered, the new Boise would focus on degrees dealing with law and medicine, basically how Alabama and Auburn share duties with Auburn focusing more engineering and agriculture and Alabama focusing more on law and medicine.)
02-15-2017 01:23 AM
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jacksfan29 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 07:58 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  All true. Although very little effort has ever been made to actually get the Idaho alumni base to do more than the bare minimum to support athletics. A revolving door of Presidents over the past 2 decades have really never had much interest in moving anything forward, as partially evidenced by the fact that our current AD was an accountant in the Ag Department hired on an interim basis in 2003. He's presided over the worst stretch in Idaho athletic history and is somehow still here.

Maybe that is because athletics are not the most important part of a University's mission?

If Idaho intends to play FB they are heading in the right direction, if money is the issue they may want to think about D2. The other choice is to drop the sport. They do not belong in FBS and never did.

Of course I'm of the mind that NMSU and half the MAC and Sun Belt also don't belong in FBS but that's for a different thread.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017 10:20 AM by jacksfan29.)
02-15-2017 10:19 AM
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p23570
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Post: #50
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 10:55 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 09:46 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Didn't Idaho leave the PAC once upon a time? Wow what a bad decision.

I don't think they did. The old conference that the current PAC schools were in disbanded leaving them behind. The teams reformed with a new conference and didn't invite Idaho.
Cheers!

The politically correct way to kick someone out. Kinda like the SWC.
02-15-2017 10:25 AM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 10:19 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Maybe that is because athletics are not the most important part of a University's mission?

If Idaho intends to play FB they are heading in the right direction, if money is the issue they may want to think about D2. The other choice is to drop the sport. They do not belong in FBS and never did.

Of course I'm of the mind that NMSU and half the MAC and Sun Belt also don't belong in FBS but that's for a different thread.

I'm not making a value judgment here, other than to say that if you're going to try to do something you should try to do it well. My beef with Idaho athletics isn't that they fail, it's that they took on a huge project and then never even attempted to figure out how it might be successful or engage people to make it happen.

My main position is that scholarship FCS football is an obviously and blatantly stupid place for Idaho to go. If the school wants to deemphasize athletics that's a perfectly reasonable position to take, or now that the team has turned around on the field if they want to give FBS Indy a try for a while my wallet and I are still in, but don't continue to subsidize athletics at virtually the same rate to play at a level that nobody at Idaho will care about for at least 2 decades, plus undergo an ongoing humiliation to do it.
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2017 11:34 AM by LatahCounty.)
02-15-2017 11:05 AM
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Post: #52
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 04:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Used to live in SE Idaho, and never been in a state that is so divided geographically and culturally. The Upper Peninsula of Michigan is the only spot that comes close. Some of my coworkers kids enrolled at U Idaho and had to drive long hours through Montana to get there. But Uof UTAH and BYU were far more popular than U of Idaho. Seemed only blue collar parents sent their kids to Idaho St.

What Moscow needs is an interstate from Spokane to Boise, Reno and Las Vegas. That stretch of the US doesn't have adequate N/S highway transportation and has grown tremendously since the interstate system was chartered. An interstate, even if most of it was in E Washington, would better connect the panhandle to the rest of the state.

Look up interstate 11. They are already building the Phoenix-Las Vegas part and planning Tuscon-Phoenix and Las Vegas-Reno.
02-15-2017 11:55 AM
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Post: #53
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 10:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 09:46 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Didn't Idaho leave the PAC once upon a time? Wow what a bad decision.

Idaho and Montana didn't leave. The California schools and Washington disbanded the Pacific Coast Conference and formed their own Association of Western Universities, and later invited back the Oregon schools and Wash St. Even while in the theb PCC, Idaho and Montana rarely were the home fb team. Idaho had strived to be FBS in remembrance of their former big time connections til now, and that jilting was historically a big reason. Idaho managed to conserve being a top flight IA school for a time even when they were in the Big Sky. The jilting also seemed to effect the Montanas, who's board doesn't want to take a risk, doesnt allow separation of the two, or get in a league over their heads, after Utah and Colorado schools abandoned Mt State and the Skyline Conference too.

Montana did leave in 1950.

Idaho got left behind.
02-15-2017 11:56 AM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 11:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 10:43 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 09:46 PM)p23570 Wrote:  Didn't Idaho leave the PAC once upon a time? Wow what a bad decision.

Idaho and Montana didn't leave. The California schools and Washington disbanded the Pacific Coast Conference and formed their own Association of Western Universities, and later invited back the Oregon schools and Wash St. Even while in the theb PCC, Idaho and Montana rarely were the home fb team. Idaho had strived to be FBS in remembrance of their former big time connections til now, and that jilting was historically a big reason. Idaho managed to conserve being a top flight IA school for a time even when they were in the Big Sky. The jilting also seemed to effect the Montanas, who's board doesn't want to take a risk, doesnt allow separation of the two, or get in a league over their heads, after Utah and Colorado schools abandoned Mt State and the Skyline Conference too.

Montana did leave in 1950.

Idaho got left behind.

Montana St got jilted when the big Utah and Colo schools left the RMAC.
Montana then got jilted by some of the same schools in the Skyline.
Had the sequence incorrect, but both got jilted. The State Board of Education seems to be very leery of a move up for a reason.
02-15-2017 12:15 PM
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NoDak Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 11:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 04:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Used to live in SE Idaho, and never been in a state that is so divided geographically and culturally. The Upper Peninsula of Michigan is the only spot that comes close. Some of my coworkers kids enrolled at U Idaho and had to drive long hours through Montana to get there. But Uof UTAH and BYU were far more popular than U of Idaho. Seemed only blue collar parents sent their kids to Idaho St.

What Moscow needs is an interstate from Spokane to Boise, Reno and Las Vegas. That stretch of the US doesn't have adequate N/S highway transportation and has grown tremendously since the interstate system was chartered. An interstate, even if most of it was in E Washington, would better connect the panhandle to the rest of the state.

Look up interstate 11. They are already building the Phoenix-Las Vegas part and planning Tuscon-Phoenix and Las Vegas-Reno.

Have seen the bridge near Hoover Dam at Boulder City. Didn't know it was part of a future I-11.
02-15-2017 12:18 PM
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Post: #56
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-14-2017 01:52 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  While they are the only game in town, we have BSU in our state and Washington State about an 8 minute drive away.

True, WA St as well ... forgot about that! That is a tough one to deal with. A very unique situation, no doubt.


(02-14-2017 01:52 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  And we've been playing FBS football for 20 years so our fans have a certain level of expectation and pride, and all our historic rivals save Montana are FBS schools.

I get that too. I imagine Boise moved because Idaho did. Or perhaps the other way around, looks like you both left in 1996.

But which other rivals are you talking about? Nevada, sure. But who else?

The Big Sky timeline from the 1960's to the 1990's shows that only Boise, Idaho, and Nevada left for FBS. Montana, Montana St, Idaho St, Weber St, N AZ, and E WA, are all still there.


(02-14-2017 01:52 PM)LatahCounty Wrote:  Add it all up and the correct choices are either to try to stick it out in FBS or drop scholarship football altogether. The Big Sky is the worst of all worlds for Idaho.

The kicker is WA St.

If you live in the area, and don't have a direct affiliation to U Idaho ... and you want to watch a football game on Sat night. Yeah, that's a tough one to overcome.


(02-14-2017 02:11 PM)goofus Wrote:  Why would it be ridiculous to invest in the state university that is in the part of the state where people actually live?

If you were starting from scratch, perhaps it wouldn't be ridiculous.

But given the higher ed situation in Idaho, there is simply no way that the state of Idaho is going to pour truckloads of cash into Boise that it would take to catch up and surpass UI on the academic/research side.


(02-14-2017 08:16 PM)billings Wrote:  how dare those colleges want an agriculture focus and to be in the heart of ag country.

I don't think Idaho was founded specifically to serve agriculture, like Montana St, the Dakota State's, and the land-grants in the Northeast US were. Of course, NDSU is in Fargo ... while the others I mention are in smaller towns.

But the point is well taken.


(02-15-2017 10:19 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  They do not belong in FBS and never did.

Very naive position to take.

You have to look at the situation in the mid 90's. That was the climate that precipitated the move. Idaho was very competitive in football, back then. The rivalry with Boise was actually much more even. Nevada had left the Big Sky for DI-A.

The costs of DI-A vs DI-AA were not nearly as significant as FCS vs FBS are now.

Not sure if Boise or Idaho struck first, but the other quickly followed.


(02-15-2017 11:05 AM)LatahCounty Wrote:  My main position is that scholarship FCS football is an obviously and blatantly stupid place for Idaho to go.

I don't agree with the word stupid, per se.

I can guarantee that it won't save money. So put another way, I can guarantee that Idaho football will be spending just about the same money as it does now.


But ... if Idaho can get back to being a winner in the Big Sky. That is something. Something nice to have. May be meaningless to you alumni who've tasted the FBS "big time" and can't live with less than that, but believe me it is something.


(02-15-2017 11:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  Look up interstate 11. They are already building the Phoenix-Las Vegas part and planning Tuscon-Phoenix and Las Vegas-Reno.

Yeah but it looks like the proposals for Reno to Spokane run through the tri-cities of southwestern Washington. It would only be a big benefit to the Moscow-Lewiston-Pullman area if the interstate ran through there up to Spokane.
02-15-2017 01:12 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  But which other rivals are you talking about? Nevada, sure. But who else?

The Big Sky timeline from the 1960's to the 1990's shows that only Boise, Idaho, and Nevada left for FBS. Montana, Montana St, Idaho St, Weber St, N AZ, and E WA, are all still there.

BSU, Washington St. & Nevada are the big 3 in that order. Utah St. is also a good one. Besides Montana, Idaho fans never really had any interest in the other Big Sky schools. EWU was new to the conference when we left. The school is now trying to force that into a rivalry but it hasn't met with any real interest from the fanbase.
02-15-2017 01:48 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 10:19 AM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  They do not belong in FBS and never did.

Very naive position to take.

You have to look at the situation in the mid 90's. That was the climate that precipitated the move. Idaho was very competitive in football, back then. The rivalry with Boise was actually much more even. Nevada had left the Big Sky for DI-A.

The costs of DI-A vs DI-AA were not nearly as significant as FCS vs FBS are now.

Not sure if Boise or Idaho struck first, but the other quickly followed.

Hindsight is great and everyone is a genius after the fact, but at the time both schools moved up we'd just beaten Boise 12 years in a row. They made an effort and we didn't.
02-15-2017 01:50 PM
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LatahCounty Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 01:12 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  I get that too. I imagine Boise moved because Idaho did. Or perhaps the other way around, looks like you both left in 1996.

Boise made the first move. Our admin didn't really want to go at the time. But we were the state's leading school in every way and we also dominated Boise on the football field, so there was no way the powerbrokers around the school could let them move up without us going too. So we went 1A without any true commitment from school leadership and then half-assed it for 2 decades until we got into this miserable state.
02-15-2017 02:01 PM
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Post: #60
RE: Idaho Asking State for Athletic Dept. Bailout
(02-15-2017 12:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  
(02-15-2017 11:55 AM)bullet Wrote:  
(02-14-2017 04:18 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Used to live in SE Idaho, and never been in a state that is so divided geographically and culturally. The Upper Peninsula of Michigan is the only spot that comes close. Some of my coworkers kids enrolled at U Idaho and had to drive long hours through Montana to get there. But Uof UTAH and BYU were far more popular than U of Idaho. Seemed only blue collar parents sent their kids to Idaho St.

What Moscow needs is an interstate from Spokane to Boise, Reno and Las Vegas. That stretch of the US doesn't have adequate N/S highway transportation and has grown tremendously since the interstate system was chartered. An interstate, even if most of it was in E Washington, would better connect the panhandle to the rest of the state.

Look up interstate 11. They are already building the Phoenix-Las Vegas part and planning Tuscon-Phoenix and Las Vegas-Reno.

Have seen the bridge near Hoover Dam at Boulder City. Didn't know it was part of a future I-11.

yup - Phoenix and Las Vegas are the two largest cities not connected by a Freeway.

Section from I-15 to Railroad Pass is built (I-515 right now). Nevada is building the Boulder City by-pass currently, which will make it interstate from I-15 to the Arizona border (the new bridge). Arizona is working on route design. Will follow US 93 to near Wickenburg, then curve west of the White Tank Mountains, then down to Casa Grande.

Nevada wants to extend to at least Reno, possibly further north.
02-15-2017 02:39 PM
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