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Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
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p23570
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Post: #21
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 12:43 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 08:04 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I don't see the PAC 12 wanting any MWC schools unless there were a sudden population boom in New Mexico.

New Mexico, Colorado St and Hawaii are the only 3 MWC schools that meet the minimum requirements to join the PAC 12, CSU wont get in because Colorado is already there. Hawaii needs about 1.5 million more people, and New Mexico would need a million people to move there to make it. New Mexico is one of the strangest situations there is. Their border state neighbors Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma and Texas are booming with population growth while they move forward at a snail pace. Air Force would normally be a great candidate; but not for PAC. UNLV and SDSU are non-starters. Wyoming would need an oil boom that brought 10 million people. Boise St has less of a chance than Idaho. Nevada--I don't know enough about them.
Cheers!

What are the minimum requirements to join the PAC 12?
02-10-2017 03:41 PM
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dtd_vandal Offline
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Post: #22
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 01:09 PM)jacksfan29 Wrote:  Totally agree. Besides, if the MWC got hit that hard you would see the MWC/AAC merger finally happen.

(02-10-2017 12:54 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Not sure which is less credible: MWC to PAC or Big Sky to MWC?


Neither are going to happen.

Why would the AAC want to merge with the least attractive MWC schools? If the MWC got hit that hard then the remnants would be by far the worst G5 conference. Not that there is any chance in hell that the PAC/Big 12 takes any teams from the MWC, let alone that many of them.
02-10-2017 04:48 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #23
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
Minimum requirements are Carnegie R1 research level. that is really a requirement of ALL power conferences, especially for public universities. (Four legacy R2 schools, three in the SEC, the other Oklahoma State)

But it's more than that, as 8 of 12 schools are members of the AAU, and the remaining are members of the URA (a little less selective research organization than the AAU, mostly for US government research grants). Being designated a land grant school also helps.

Colorado State (R1 URA LG), New Mexico (R1 URA), Hawaii (R LG)

A simple test to see if a school would be admitted to the Pac-12, would an Academic Dean at UC Berkeley, UCLA, USC, Washington, Arizona, or Colorado consider the same position at the expansion candidate school? If the answer is no, then they will not be invited.

The big thing they are looking for is a partner in their research collaborations. The Pac-12, which pulls in the UC schools (Irvine, Davis, San Diego, Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, Riverside) to the consortium, wants schools that are able to be peers with these. Colorado, and Utah are very good in this sense.

If you don't pass the academic and research test, it doesn't matter what your athletics are.
(This post was last modified: 02-10-2017 05:43 PM by Stugray2.)
02-10-2017 05:36 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #24
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 02:01 PM)goofus Wrote:  The MWC would go after Texas schools first

UTEP, UTSA, TxSt, UNT


I could see Portland State and Eastern Washington going to the west side of the mWC equation for balance. Unless San Diego State does get picked by the PAC 12, you could see one of the Big West schools get an invite.
02-10-2017 07:01 PM
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DavidSt Offline
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Post: #25
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
The other R1 schools that are FBS.


Houston
North Texas


R2
BYU
Montana State
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Northern Arizona
Portland State
San Diego State
South Dakota State
SMU
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Idaho
Montana
UNLV
UNR
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
South Dakota
Wyoming
Utah State

R3
Air Force
Azusa Pacific
Boise State
Fresno State
Idaho State
Sam Houston State
Lamar
02-10-2017 07:19 PM
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Attackcoog Online
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Post: #26
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
None of the schools mentioned are going to the Pac12. If the Pac12 expands, it does so in a way that gets them viewers in Texas increasing revenue for their Pac-12 Network by adding a crap load of cable boxes. A 5th team in Cali or teams in states where barely 2 million people live aren't going to increase revenue enough to support splitting the pie more ways. Texas is the only place where expansion makes sense for the Pac12. The Mountain West is safe and stable. Big Sky schools are staying put and will continue living the dream.
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2017 02:26 AM by Attackcoog.)
02-10-2017 07:40 PM
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chargeradio Offline
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Post: #27
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 10:26 AM)Erictelevision Wrote:  Chargeradio: would the MWC want N CO or S UT? 2-4 from your list were the obvious ones for me, the bookends less so.
Southern Utah barely made it into the Big Sky, and is not a peer institution of what would be remaining in the Mountain West. I don't see any value in adding Northern Colorado if Air Force or Wyoming are in the conference. Portland State and Sacramento State will be an attempt to salvage what is left of the TV contract, so if they can afford to move, they will be invited. I actually think Northern Arizona or Weber State (which is somewhat close to Salt Lake) would get invited before Southern Utah or Northern Colorado.
02-10-2017 08:17 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #28
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
The MWC would go after UTEP and Rice first. Those two Texas schools are already vetted and the interest is mutual. The financials don't work right now (Playoff payouts and TV revenues don't bump up commensurately with expansion). If they did it would have happened already. But it is very clear they are replacement candidates #1 and #2 should there be a defection.

North Texas has some decent academics, and could interest the MWC, but they would be a bit further down the list. I have heard of no interest either from either side. They like the SBC West.

The only Big Sky school that could remotely interest the MWC is UC Davis (technically a football affiliate only). The Montana schools have T9 issues they are dealing with. The rest of the Big Sky is woefully short of the resources.
02-10-2017 08:41 PM
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billybobby777 Offline
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Post: #29
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 03:41 PM)p23570 Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 12:43 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 08:04 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I don't see the PAC 12 wanting any MWC schools unless there were a sudden population boom in New Mexico.

New Mexico, Colorado St and Hawaii are the only 3 MWC schools that meet the minimum requirements to join the PAC 12, CSU wont get in because Colorado is already there. Hawaii needs about 1.5 million more people, and New Mexico would need a million people to move there to make it. New Mexico is one of the strangest situations there is. Their border state neighbors Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma and Texas are booming with population growth while they move forward at a snail pace. Air Force would normally be a great candidate; but not for PAC. UNLV and SDSU are non-starters. Wyoming would need an oil boom that brought 10 million people. Boise St has less of a chance than Idaho. Nevada--I don't know enough about them.
Cheers!

What are the minimum requirements to join the PAC 12?

-Universities classified as R1, Highest Research Activity
-State flagship
Those are the minimum requirements to join the PAC 12.
Cheers!
02-10-2017 09:38 PM
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NoQuestion Offline
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Post: #30
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 08:41 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  The only Big Sky school that could remotely interest the MWC is UC Davis (technically a football affiliate only). The Montana schools have T9 issues they are dealing with. The rest of the Big Sky is woefully short of the resources.

I didn't realize we(MSU) have title IX issues.
02-10-2017 09:51 PM
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p23570
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Post: #31
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 07:40 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  None of the schools mentioned are going to the Pac12. If the Pac12 expands, it does so in a way that gets them viewers in Texas increasing revenue for their Pac-12 Network by adding a crap load of cable boxes). A 5th team in Cali or teams in states where barely 2 million people live aren't going to increase revenue enough to support splitting the pie more ways. Texas is the only place where expansion makes sense for the Pac12. The Mountain West is safe and stable. Big Sky schools are staying put and will continue living the dream.

I agree with some of what you are saying but the PAC is in an odd situation as they are not even carried by the major TV providers.

You can throw any discussion of population out the window until the conference gets the major carriers on board. If SDSU and Fresno accomplished that then it would add a lof of income to the conference even though those schools aren't specifically popular they are a school where regular people attend and associate with because their kids go there. Most people wouldn't even bother applying for CAL, UCLA, USC, or Stanford so cheering for them is awkward. I"m not saying they should add more Cali schools I'M just saying that whoever they add the result needs to be getting all TV providers to pay.

I also do not buy the population argument anymore. The days of adding UMass to get the cable subscribers of massachusetts to pay up are all but over. The future is who has actual fans willing to pay to watch thier team play. Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska, and Oklahoma have little population but tremendous value to TV deals becasue they love college sports.

What it takes to get carriers to pay up are people willing to switch providers to see thier team play and lots of them. The PAC just doesn't have huge rabid fanbases.
02-10-2017 10:23 PM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #32
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
Charger: totally forgot about Weber St., thanks for the NCU and SUU info.
02-11-2017 12:30 AM
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Jjoey52 Offline
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Post: #33
Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 12:43 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 08:04 AM)Chappy Wrote:  I don't see the PAC 12 wanting any MWC schools unless there were a sudden population boom in New Mexico.

New Mexico, Colorado St and Hawaii are the only 3 MWC schools that meet the minimum requirements to join the PAC 12, CSU wont get in because Colorado is already there. Hawaii needs about 1.5 million more people, and New Mexico would need a million people to move there to make it. New Mexico is one of the strangest situations there is. Their border state neighbors Arizona, Utah, Colorado, Oklahoma and Texas are booming with population growth while they move forward at a snail pace. Air Force would normally be a great candidate; but not for PAC. UNLV and SDSU are non-starters. Wyoming would need an oil boom that brought 10 million people. Boise St has less of a chance than Idaho. Nevada--I don't know enough about them.
Cheers!


If you ever drove thru NM you would know why their population growth is stagnant.





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02-11-2017 12:58 AM
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Erictelevision Offline
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Post: #34
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
I had remembered, but forgot to mention: Northern AZ. (Saw them while looking at something else). Could they be a plausible target for the MWC?
02-11-2017 05:52 AM
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Post: #35
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 08:05 AM)chargeradio Wrote:  If you had 6 vacancies per the OP:

1) Sacramento State
2) Montana
3) Montana State
4) Idaho
5) Portland State

New Mexico State isn't in the Big Sky, but they would be taken if the Mountain West had that many vacancies.

I could see Cal Poly or UC Davis possibly sneaking on to the list as well.

The Mountain West would probably only reload to 10 members, which likely would only mean 3 teams being invited from the Big Sky. In that case, the Big Sky may be content with just 8 members.

If the Big Sky fell to six members, it would be interesting if they could find 2-4 Southland schools willing to move over. Those schools travel costs would increase, but there should be some exit fees available and there would not be nearly the competition for automatic bids in most sports.

Texas State, ULL, & stAte to the MWC
02-11-2017 02:17 PM
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MJG Offline
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Post: #36
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 12:54 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Not sure which is less credible: MWC to PAC or Big Sky to MWC?


Neither are going to happen.

The only possible way the MWC gets raided is the AAC gets aggressive and takes four.
Then Four CUSA schools are added to the MWC UTEP,Rice,UTSA and LA Tech.
CUSA then stays at ten with the other sorry ten team conference.
02-11-2017 03:59 PM
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ARSTATEFAN1986 Offline
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Post: #37
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 07:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The other R1 schools that are FBS.


Houston
North Texas


R2
BYU
Montana State
New Mexico State
North Dakota State
Northern Arizona
Portland State
San Diego State
South Dakota State
SMU
Texas State
UTEP
UTSA
Idaho
Montana
UNLV
UNR
North Dakota
Northern Colorado
South Dakota
Wyoming
Utah State

R3
Air Force
Azusa Pacific
Boise State
Fresno State
Idaho State
Sam Houston State
Lamar

Never going to happen. Look at what DII teams can move to FCS.
02-11-2017 04:06 PM
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Post: #38
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-11-2017 03:59 PM)MJG Wrote:  
(02-10-2017 12:54 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Not sure which is less credible: MWC to PAC or Big Sky to MWC?


Neither are going to happen.

The only possible way the MWC gets raided is the AAC gets aggressive and takes four.
Then Four CUSA schools are added to the MWC UTEP,Rice,UTSA and LA Tech.
CUSA then stays at ten with the other sorry ten team conference.

The MWC is probably the most stable G5 conference. No P5 conference is interested in raiding it. Moreover the AAC is in no position to raid it, especially after having come so close to being gutted by Big 12 expansion. So the whole premise of this thread is dubious.

Having said that, if the MWC were to add members they would not come from the Big Sky. As others have stated, UTEP and Rice would be the top targets. After those two the next most likely candidates would be UTSA, North Texas, Texas State and New Mexico State.
02-11-2017 04:26 PM
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ESE84 Online
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Post: #39
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-11-2017 04:26 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Having said that, if the MWC were to add members they would not come from the Big Sky. As others have stated, UTEP and Rice would be the top targets. After those two the next most likely candidates would be UTSA, North Texas, Texas State and New Mexico State.

Agree. I also doubt any moves within the MWC, C-USA or AAC until something happens with the Big 12. If some of the Big 12 marquee programs are lured into other Cartel conferences, or Baylor collapses, it will be a free for all with the remnants of the Big 12, MWC Mountain, C-USA West, and the AAC West. Some MAC programs could also be in play.
02-12-2017 09:50 AM
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ESE84 Online
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Post: #40
RE: Using the Big Sky to backfill the MWC
(02-10-2017 07:19 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  The other R1 schools that are FBS.


Houston
North Texas

You missed Rice, also AAU (with some athletic department ties to Stanford).
02-12-2017 10:47 AM
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