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How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #61
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Oh, it should be noted, that I looked at some SJSU schedules for minors sports and they include events in Texas, which are not part of the MWC. So it does appear, they have found the loop holes. So far it has not had a real impact.

What it could have an impact is on is Pac-12 and MWC expansion in Texas, The UC and CSU schools would be in a bind on that.

Yeah the mid-terms look like they will be a minor blood bath for the GOP. And unfortunately the Democrats rather than move to the center to sweep away millions of disaffected right of center voters to create a Roosevelt type coalition, are working on a 50+1 majoritarian ideological group even more than before. So things will escalate further rather than start to ratchet down, and more laws (as is becoming the norm) will have 40-60% disapproval, and more ideological legislation will be passed.

I had hoped, and still pray, we see Trump's election as a sign we all need to change our political and social ways and reconnect with each other to build large consensus legislation, and move our politics away from the creeds of the two parties, which seem frozen in the 1980s (zero innovation, zero objectives in policies, just fulfilling radical claims). I fear we will double down, and the lines between neighbors get ever harder over stuff the really doesn't impact their lives except as markers of culture (both sides are low culture, but hold the other as garbage culture).

Tying back to the bathroom bills and the retaliation bills against them, these are examples of going to extreme lengths over something that really is not very important to a country of 330 million, and which localities have been working out solutions without legislation for years on an ad hoc basis. Why this suddenly became a line in the sand for culture war is beyond me. Well maybe not, the lack of new creeds, and the need to ratchet up the divisions in the country for each political party seems greater than the willingness to talk to each other as respectable adults.

Yeah move this to spin.
03-13-2018 12:46 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #62
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 01:19 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-13-2018 01:15 PM
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leofrog Offline
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Post: #63
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 12:59 AM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Answer: Creative Accounting
https://sports.yahoo.com/san-diego-state...07955.html

It'll be interesting to see if the NCAA continues doing this, or gets backlash from the states who boycott.

Anyway, good for them not caving in this time.
03-13-2018 02:29 PM
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hoopfan Offline
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Post: #64
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).

The cheer squads and dance teams are over flowing with inclusion.
03-13-2018 03:00 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).

I didn't say it was unimportant. What I said is these "you must ban them from the bathrooms" and "you must let them in the bathroom of their choice" and if you don't agree with me we are at war things are flat out stupid.

The numbers are VERY SMALL. Maybe 1 or 2 kids in a typical HS of 2000 or so kids, and those participating in sports even smaller.

Forcing a decision on any issue without broad consensus is flat out stupid. I think bathroom inclusion and bathroom ban bills are stupid. We have not figured out as a culture how we want to deal with it. So we should leave a lot of space to allow innovation and various alternatives to figure this out.

Look it would be best if we did not sexualize breasts so much, and the bathroom in general. Japan prior to American and Western cultural pressure, basically had public baths (which were also bathrooms) with mixed genders without the sexual interaction. So that showed it was possible to have culture that did not have sex associated with the bathroom. Of course that is dead in Japan for a couple generations.

And the trend line worldwide, especially with Muslim pressure (Europe and Australia) is toward stronger gender separation. It's hard not to notice that in the UK or France (topless sunbathing is basically gone and the fight is over whether to allow Burkinis or not while there is growing pressure to gender segregate grows). The US will be very much alone in a couple decades.

I mostly think it's much about nothing on both sides. It's ideological rather than practical. Rigid rules for bathrooms make no sense, either for inclusion or exclusion. Morals change all the time.

It's like the issue in the military. I think it's fine to not accept transgender, because the cost of surgery is very high, and the out of action time very long. It makes no sense in a typical 4 year contract. And it has no impact on recruiting. I laughed at the protests in San Francisco, and asked the organizers a simple question (including two I am friends with in the media), "how many of the Bay Area transgender went to the recruiting office to sign up for the military" ... the answer was zero, "it's the principle." No it's not, politics is about the practical, not the esoteric. Religion and philosophy are for the esoteric.

My basic point is such bills both "inclusive" and "exclusive" are not meant to have a conversation, they are meant to be a club to beat your opponents over the head with. They are fascist. I say that about both the California and Texas bills. Both are fascist clubs.
03-13-2018 03:06 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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Post: #66
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 03:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-13-2018 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).

I didn't say it was unimportant. What I said is these "you must ban them from the bathrooms" and "you must let them in the bathroom of their choice" and if you don't agree with me we are at war things are flat out stupid.

The numbers are VERY SMALL. Maybe 1 or 2 kids in a typical HS of 2000 or so kids, and those participating in sports even smaller.

Forcing a decision on any issue without broad consensus is flat out stupid. I think bathroom inclusion and bathroom ban bills are stupid. We have not figured out as a culture how we want to deal with it. So we should leave a lot of space to allow innovation and various alternatives to figure this out.

Look it would be best if we did not sexualize breasts so much, and the bathroom in general. Japan prior to American and Western cultural pressure, basically had public baths (which were also bathrooms) with mixed genders without the sexual interaction. So that showed it was possible to have culture that did not have sex associated with the bathroom. Of course that is dead in Japan for a couple generations.

And the trend line worldwide, especially with Muslim pressure (Europe and Australia) is toward stronger gender separation. It's hard not to notice that in the UK or France (topless sunbathing is basically gone and the fight is over whether to allow Burkinis or not while there is growing pressure to gender segregate grows). The US will be very much alone in a couple decades.

I mostly think it's much about nothing on both sides. It's ideological rather than practical. Rigid rules for bathrooms make no sense, either for inclusion or exclusion. Morals change all the time.

It's like the issue in the military. I think it's fine to not accept transgender, because the cost of surgery is very high, and the out of action time very long. It makes no sense in a typical 4 year contract. And it has no impact on recruiting. I laughed at the protests in San Francisco, and asked the organizers a simple question (including two I am friends with in the media), "how many of the Bay Area transgender went to the recruiting office to sign up for the military" ... the answer was zero, "it's the principle." No it's not, politics is about the practical, not the esoteric. Religion and philosophy are for the esoteric.

My basic point is such bills both "inclusive" and "exclusive" are not meant to have a conversation, they are meant to be a club to beat your opponents over the head with. They are fascist. I say that about both the California and Texas bills. Both are fascist clubs.

Bravo.. Great post!
03-13-2018 03:44 PM
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RutgersGuy Offline
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Post: #67
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 03:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-13-2018 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).

I didn't say it was unimportant. What I said is these "you must ban them from the bathrooms" and "you must let them in the bathroom of their choice" and if you don't agree with me we are at war things are flat out stupid.

The numbers are VERY SMALL. Maybe 1 or 2 kids in a typical HS of 2000 or so kids, and those participating in sports even smaller.

Forcing a decision on any issue without broad consensus is flat out stupid. I think bathroom inclusion and bathroom ban bills are stupid. We have not figured out as a culture how we want to deal with it. So we should leave a lot of space to allow innovation and various alternatives to figure this out.

Look it would be best if we did not sexualize breasts so much, and the bathroom in general. Japan prior to American and Western cultural pressure, basically had public baths (which were also bathrooms) with mixed genders without the sexual interaction. So that showed it was possible to have culture that did not have sex associated with the bathroom. Of course that is dead in Japan for a couple generations.

And the trend line worldwide, especially with Muslim pressure (Europe and Australia) is toward stronger gender separation. It's hard not to notice that in the UK or France (topless sunbathing is basically gone and the fight is over whether to allow Burkinis or not while there is growing pressure to gender segregate grows). The US will be very much alone in a couple decades.

I mostly think it's much about nothing on both sides. It's ideological rather than practical. Rigid rules for bathrooms make no sense, either for inclusion or exclusion. Morals change all the time.

It's like the issue in the military. I think it's fine to not accept transgender, because the cost of surgery is very high, and the out of action time very long. It makes no sense in a typical 4 year contract. And it has no impact on recruiting. I laughed at the protests in San Francisco, and asked the organizers a simple question (including two I am friends with in the media), "how many of the Bay Area transgender went to the recruiting office to sign up for the military" ... the answer was zero, "it's the principle." No it's not, politics is about the practical, not the esoteric. Religion and philosophy are for the esoteric.

My basic point is such bills both "inclusive" and "exclusive" are not meant to have a conversation, they are meant to be a club to beat your opponents over the head with. They are fascist. I say that about both the California and Texas bills. Both are fascist clubs.

Wait so any man whop takes up any side of the abortion debate shouldn't because principles don't matter? All those white who marched with the Freedom Riders shouldn't have because principles don't matter? Your logic doesn't bear fruit friend.
03-13-2018 04:13 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #68
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 03:06 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  
(03-13-2018 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).

I didn't say it was unimportant. What I said is these "you must ban them from the bathrooms" and "you must let them in the bathroom of their choice" and if you don't agree with me we are at war things are flat out stupid.

The numbers are VERY SMALL. Maybe 1 or 2 kids in a typical HS of 2000 or so kids, and those participating in sports even smaller.

Forcing a decision on any issue without broad consensus is flat out stupid. I think bathroom inclusion and bathroom ban bills are stupid. We have not figured out as a culture how we want to deal with it. So we should leave a lot of space to allow innovation and various alternatives to figure this out.

Look it would be best if we did not sexualize breasts so much, and the bathroom in general. Japan prior to American and Western cultural pressure, basically had public baths (which were also bathrooms) with mixed genders without the sexual interaction. So that showed it was possible to have culture that did not have sex associated with the bathroom. Of course that is dead in Japan for a couple generations.

And the trend line worldwide, especially with Muslim pressure (Europe and Australia) is toward stronger gender separation. It's hard not to notice that in the UK or France (topless sunbathing is basically gone and the fight is over whether to allow Burkinis or not while there is growing pressure to gender segregate grows). The US will be very much alone in a couple decades.

I mostly think it's much about nothing on both sides. It's ideological rather than practical. Rigid rules for bathrooms make no sense, either for inclusion or exclusion. Morals change all the time.

It's like the issue in the military. I think it's fine to not accept transgender, because the cost of surgery is very high, and the out of action time very long. It makes no sense in a typical 4 year contract. And it has no impact on recruiting. I laughed at the protests in San Francisco, and asked the organizers a simple question (including two I am friends with in the media), "how many of the Bay Area transgender went to the recruiting office to sign up for the military" ... the answer was zero, "it's the principle." No it's not, politics is about the practical, not the esoteric. Religion and philosophy are for the esoteric.

My basic point is such bills both "inclusive" and "exclusive" are not meant to have a conversation, they are meant to be a club to beat your opponents over the head with. They are fascist. I say that about both the California and Texas bills. Both are fascist clubs.

These bathroom bills commonly allow for wholesale discrimination against LGBT persons. Not just a bathroom. Hotel rooms, hospital rooms, restaurants, etc. Mississippi just passed a bill authorizing hospitals to refuse to treat Trans or married Gays. The states of California and New York shouldn't export LGBT persons to discriminatory states so they can be subjected to discrimination. I'd argue that it is actually DANGEROUS to send a LGBT person to Mississippi, because the state legislature has just affirmed turning away LGBT persons from medical care.

Again, the college athletics group hasn't seen it to be a problem that there has been only 1 person in the history of FBS to ever play a down in college football as an openly Gay player. There's never been an openly Gay football operations employee - ever. There's been exactly 2 high ranking athletic department employees - ever. I wouldn't expect them to care very much about our concerns. They aren't facing the discrimination. And quite frankly, there doesn't seem to be any participation by LGBT persons in those decisions anyway.

All we get from this is a big fat bill for the substantial expense of these programs. Now they want us to be humiliated to attend away games of the programs were paying significant amounts for.

Either discrimination is okay, or its not. But know that no matter how much people who don't face discrimination think that the very real discrimination we face is irrelevant, that we feel it to be very relevant. And we will use any lever we can to fight that discrimination. And if it causes some splatter on a group that has ignored our concerns and has either deliberately or negligently discriminated against us for decades, then why should we care?
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 05:23 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-13-2018 05:16 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #69
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 03:00 PM)hoopfan Wrote:  
(03-13-2018 01:15 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Understand that the lack of consensus and respect for a certain community is precisely how we got here. And why this might get worse moving forward.

The ability of LGBT persons to participate in college athletics might not be important to you, or to the people who largely run collegiate athletics....but it is important to a sizeable portion of the owners of some of these programs (the taxpayers). This is what happens when straight/cis people 'decide' what is acceptable for LGBT people , without the input of the targeted minority (e.g., LGBT people). None of the bathroom bills (or the Mississippi HB 1523, which authorizes wholescale discrimination in healthcare and public accommodations) took into account any concerns of the LGBT community.

So the LGBT community is going to use the levers open to them. They could care less about where CSUB plays basketball, or if they play basketball at all. Or where or if SDSU plays football. And that's the problem of those programs too. The only interaction the LGBT community has with those programs is usually at the receiving end of a big fat bill to pay for programs that largely (or completely) exclude them. The smart move would be for programs to ramp up LGBT inclusion (most have 0% inclusion and have never had any inclusion).

The cheer squads and dance teams are over flowing with inclusion.

So the cheerleading coach gets a salary like that of the football coach? How many full ride scholarships on those teams? And does the school promote those programs like the ones where LGBT persons are effectively excluded from?

And lets face facts. Number of openly Gay football players in the history of FBS....1. Number of openly Gay coaches .... 0. Assistant Coaches....0. You know it would still be bad if the taxpayers weren't paying for it. But they are.

Quite frankly, the next bill that California might throw up there is to ban their schools from competing period in those states. Even NCAA bids. By the way, expect Mississippis treatment of LGBT fans to be tested soon.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 05:29 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-13-2018 05:26 PM
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RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Might be time to stop state U from playing in illegal sanctuary states. Did UCLA go to commie China on tax payer cash?
03-13-2018 06:04 PM
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RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-13-2018 06:04 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Might be time to stop state U from playing in illegal sanctuary states. Did UCLA go to commie China on tax payer cash?

As a former Californian (thank God that nightmare is over) there really isn't much difference between communist China and the People's Republic of California. Therefore, they probably counted it as instate travel.
(This post was last modified: 03-13-2018 06:38 PM by domer1978.)
03-13-2018 06:38 PM
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RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(02-06-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:02 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  First, please don't debate whether so-called "bathroom bills" are right or wrong, or if California is right/wrong on prohibiting travel to these states. I don't want this thread to end up in the Spin Room. I want to discuss how this affects college sports.


California has banned any "STATE-FUNDED AND STATE-SPONSORED TRAVEL" to states with transgender bathroom bills. I have confirmed that this includes any travel by any university representative that will be reimbursed by any source affiliated with the university (including the endowment or other private donors arranged through the school). To my knowledge, this includes the sports team of any state-sponsored university.

As of now, the list of banned states is Tennessee, Kansas, Mississippi, and North Carolina. Also, a dozen more states (including Washington and Wyoming) have introduced "bathroom bills" to their legislatures this year.

If Washington or Wyoming pass their bathroom bills, this means that conference games will have to be canceled for Cal & UCLA or for San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State. Could this cause more conference reallignment? Or will the state schools in Washington/Wyoming (or whoever else passes a bathroom bill) abandon their right to home conference games?

I hope everyone keeps it civil.

According to your link, Texas is in that list. Houston is a state school, so I guess San Diego St can't play Houston on the road if they ever join the AAC's western wing. They can't play us (ECU) or Memphis either if that link means what you are saying.
Cheers!

We haven't passed a bathroom bill yet. The Lt. Gov. wants one, and the Gov. does not. I doubt it passes. We really do not have a bathroom problem, just a politician problem.

The OP wanted a comment on California public schools canceling games in the 4 states that California has identified as a no-go: North Carolina, Tennessee, Kansas and Mississippi, and the "dozen more states" that were in his link. I don't follow this issue, but if this means games will be impacted, like UCLA, USC etc. decide to cancel games vs teams in the states they disagree with on this issue, I would think those 3 would have to leave the conference and go Independent, as all conferences would have a team that is located in states that go another way (against their political beliefs)
Cheers!
People have differing beliefs in different states. Why not respect the laws of each state. California is beyond progressive, but has no right to climb on the political soap box. We are fifty separate states and should respect each other. California doesn't even respect or follow federal law, so I do not hold out much hope.
03-14-2018 02:14 AM
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RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-14-2018 02:14 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  People have differing beliefs in different states. Why not respect the laws of each state. California is beyond progressive, but has no right to climb on the political soap box. We are fifty separate states and should respect each other. California doesn't even respect or follow federal law, so I do not hold out much hope.

Ugh - I know that this is heading to Spin Room territory, but this isn't a matter of differing beliefs about state tax policy, infrastructure projects to fund or even how educational systems should be run (which are all traditionally state matters). When it comes to civil rights of individuals, those should not suddenly change when you cross state lines (as history shows that the "states' rights" argument has generally been used to take attempt to take away the civil rights of individuals as opposed to expanding them).
03-14-2018 09:34 AM
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RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-14-2018 09:34 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 02:14 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  People have differing beliefs in different states. Why not respect the laws of each state. California is beyond progressive, but has no right to climb on the political soap box. We are fifty separate states and should respect each other. California doesn't even respect or follow federal law, so I do not hold out much hope.

Ugh - I know that this is heading to Spin Room territory, but this isn't a matter of differing beliefs about state tax policy, infrastructure projects to fund or even how educational systems should be run (which are all traditionally state matters). When it comes to civil rights of individuals, those should not suddenly change when you cross state lines (as history shows that the "states' rights" argument has generally been used to take attempt to take away the civil rights of individuals as opposed to expanding them).

That all depends on what is a civil right, I guess. Calling something a basic human right doesn’t make it so. Like science isn’t true based on consensus, just because a lot of people claim something to be a right doesn’t mean it actually is. Being loud doesn’t equal being right. Swings on both sides of the spectrum. We should seek truth, not feelings. If a million claimed getting free Rice Krispy Treats dialy was a basic human right, that wouldn’t make it true. Although I would be on board.
03-14-2018 10:16 AM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #75
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-14-2018 02:14 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:02 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:31 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  First, please don't debate whether so-called "bathroom bills" are right or wrong, or if California is right/wrong on prohibiting travel to these states. I don't want this thread to end up in the Spin Room. I want to discuss how this affects college sports.


California has banned any "STATE-FUNDED AND STATE-SPONSORED TRAVEL" to states with transgender bathroom bills. I have confirmed that this includes any travel by any university representative that will be reimbursed by any source affiliated with the university (including the endowment or other private donors arranged through the school). To my knowledge, this includes the sports team of any state-sponsored university.

As of now, the list of banned states is Tennessee, Kansas, Mississippi, and North Carolina. Also, a dozen more states (including Washington and Wyoming) have introduced "bathroom bills" to their legislatures this year.

If Washington or Wyoming pass their bathroom bills, this means that conference games will have to be canceled for Cal & UCLA or for San Diego State, Fresno State, and San Jose State. Could this cause more conference reallignment? Or will the state schools in Washington/Wyoming (or whoever else passes a bathroom bill) abandon their right to home conference games?

I hope everyone keeps it civil.

According to your link, Texas is in that list. Houston is a state school, so I guess San Diego St can't play Houston on the road if they ever join the AAC's western wing. They can't play us (ECU) or Memphis either if that link means what you are saying.
Cheers!

We haven't passed a bathroom bill yet. The Lt. Gov. wants one, and the Gov. does not. I doubt it passes. We really do not have a bathroom problem, just a politician problem.

The OP wanted a comment on California public schools canceling games in the 4 states that California has identified as a no-go: North Carolina, Tennessee, Kansas and Mississippi, and the "dozen more states" that were in his link. I don't follow this issue, but if this means games will be impacted, like UCLA, USC etc. decide to cancel games vs teams in the states they disagree with on this issue, I would think those 3 would have to leave the conference and go Independent, as all conferences would have a team that is located in states that go another way (against their political beliefs)
Cheers!
People have differing beliefs in different states. Why not respect the laws of each state. California is beyond progressive, but has no right to climb on the political soap box. We are fifty separate states and should respect each other. California doesn't even respect or follow federal law, so I do not hold out much hope.

Its basically the following argument

Mississippi, NC, Tennessee and Texas are arguing that they have the unilateral right to discriminate against LGBT persons. California and NY are saying "the taxpayers are not going to effectively export its residents using taxpayer funded institutions to those jurisdictions so they can be humiliated/discriminated against".
03-14-2018 11:34 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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Post: #76
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-14-2018 11:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 02:14 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:02 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  According to your link, Texas is in that list. Houston is a state school, so I guess San Diego St can't play Houston on the road if they ever join the AAC's western wing. They can't play us (ECU) or Memphis either if that link means what you are saying.
Cheers!

We haven't passed a bathroom bill yet. The Lt. Gov. wants one, and the Gov. does not. I doubt it passes. We really do not have a bathroom problem, just a politician problem.

The OP wanted a comment on California public schools canceling games in the 4 states that California has identified as a no-go: North Carolina, Tennessee, Kansas and Mississippi, and the "dozen more states" that were in his link. I don't follow this issue, but if this means games will be impacted, like UCLA, USC etc. decide to cancel games vs teams in the states they disagree with on this issue, I would think those 3 would have to leave the conference and go Independent, as all conferences would have a team that is located in states that go another way (against their political beliefs)
Cheers!
People have differing beliefs in different states. Why not respect the laws of each state. California is beyond progressive, but has no right to climb on the political soap box. We are fifty separate states and should respect each other. California doesn't even respect or follow federal law, so I do not hold out much hope.

Its basically the following argument

Mississippi, NC, Tennessee and Texas are arguing that they have the unilateral right to discriminate against LGBT persons. California and NY are saying "the taxpayers are not going to effectively export its residents using taxpayer funded institutions to those jurisdictions so they can be humiliated/discriminated against".

The argument is that anybody with a p---- can't use a women's bathroom. That is point of the bathroom bills.
03-14-2018 11:50 AM
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XLance Online
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Post: #77
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-14-2018 11:34 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(03-14-2018 02:14 AM)USAFMEDIC Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:20 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 08:02 PM)Big Frog II Wrote:  
(02-06-2017 07:37 PM)billybobby777 Wrote:  According to your link, Texas is in that list. Houston is a state school, so I guess San Diego St can't play Houston on the road if they ever join the AAC's western wing. They can't play us (ECU) or Memphis either if that link means what you are saying.
Cheers!

We haven't passed a bathroom bill yet. The Lt. Gov. wants one, and the Gov. does not. I doubt it passes. We really do not have a bathroom problem, just a politician problem.

The OP wanted a comment on California public schools canceling games in the 4 states that California has identified as a no-go: North Carolina, Tennessee, Kansas and Mississippi, and the "dozen more states" that were in his link. I don't follow this issue, but if this means games will be impacted, like UCLA, USC etc. decide to cancel games vs teams in the states they disagree with on this issue, I would think those 3 would have to leave the conference and go Independent, as all conferences would have a team that is located in states that go another way (against their political beliefs)
Cheers!
People have differing beliefs in different states. Why not respect the laws of each state. California is beyond progressive, but has no right to climb on the political soap box. We are fifty separate states and should respect each other. California doesn't even respect or follow federal law, so I do not hold out much hope.

Its basically the following argument

Mississippi, NC, Tennessee and Texas are arguing that they have the unilateral right to discriminate against LGBT persons. California and NY are saying "the taxpayers are not going to effectively export its residents using taxpayer funded institutions to those jurisdictions so they can be humiliated/discriminated against".

Laws in order to be fair to everyone have to be rooted in fact not fantasy. Just because some guy happens to "feel" like a woman today, doesn't give him the right to use a woman's bathroom. If he does he is discriminating against any females who happen to be there and think they are in a gender segregated space.
Laws can not be based on perceptions and feelings and be fair to all.
03-14-2018 12:48 PM
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Tom in Lazybrook Offline
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Post: #78
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Guys, some of these bills authorize the denial of HEALTH care to someone because they are Trans or in a same sex marriage. Pretty much all of them authorize the denial of a meal in a restaurant, a hotel room, a job, entry into a facility, SOLELY because of the persons status as LGBT.

Mississippi's bill actually mandates that female to male Trans persons (e.g, post surgery, with facial hair etc) to use the WOMEN'S restroom at Mississippi State's football games. Do you really want someone to test the law, simply by complying with it (say at about the 2 minutes to halftime mark by just lining up in the womens restroom line) and seeing how that goes? Sounds like a trap for your schools. Anything happens to him (including nasty comments) and there will be REAL ban on playing there and the NCAA would have to get involved. And it wouldn't be in Mississippi States favor. All hell will break loose if you guys attempt to have some sort of meeting to decide what is an 'acceptable' solution without the participation of the LGBT community. About 10 states would institute bans on travel and playing and they would be like NY's ban (which doesn't authorize as many work arounds as California's does).

And to be honest, its really a no loss situation for the LGBT community. We don't have any real participation in collegiate athletics. Our concerns have been completely ignored. And as a result, we don't really care what happens to institutions that exclude us.
(This post was last modified: 03-14-2018 01:38 PM by Tom in Lazybrook.)
03-14-2018 01:31 PM
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Post: #79
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
(03-14-2018 01:31 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Do you really want someone to test the law, simply by complying with it (say at about the 2 minutes to halftime mark by just lining up in the womens restroom line) and seeing how that goes?

Not going to happen. It'll be some actual chick with facial hair and a Roll Tide boob tattoo (you know, a typical Tide fan) and some drunken bammer will lay hands on her screeching "it's a dude!"
03-14-2018 02:33 PM
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Post: #80
RE: How will "Bathroom Bills" impact college sports?
Furthermore: the Williams Institute at UCLA estimates the trans population at 0.6 percent, or 1.4 million nationally. That translates to about 14,000 in Mississippi. I don't know how that breaks down on male/female lines, but either way, I have been to Mississippi. There are way more than 14,000 chicks in Mississippi who look like dudes. This law is going to be a disaster.
03-14-2018 03:00 PM
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