The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(02-08-2017 06:00 AM)fallsdog Wrote:  Kent State Basketball...coming off a season in which it did not advance to Cleveland [the second under this head coach] is now 13 and 11 with a 5 and 6 conference record. Last night was, I believe, the 4th home conference loss of the season. As it stands....oh boy.

5-6 with two against Akron and one against Ohio left. That leaves little chance for a late season charge. They picked us for 4/5 in the East and it's beginning to look right.

and the crazy thing is we are only 1 game out of second and playing the 3 teams in the east that are ahead of us. it is looking like 9 or 10 wins will get byes to Clev.

(02-08-2017 08:50 AM)luckyflash Wrote:  and the crazy thing is we are only 1 game out of second and playing the 3 teams in the east that are ahead of us. it is looking like 9 or 10 wins will get byes to Clev.

Question is ... how many times can this team rebound from a devastating loss ... Team has actually won four of its last six, which is better than most teams in the MAC ... But the 2 latest home losses have been gut-wrenching ...

Just read that if one of these 3 OT losses was a win Kent would be tied for second ... it two of them were wins (and NIU-BG should have been) this team would be alone in second. ...

Even if the players aren't crushed, ... I suspect the coaches surely are ...

Very, Very tough road ahead .. (Akron 2, OU, @Buff, @ Tol, @BG) ... if Kent is even .500 vs. those teams I'd give them a shot in the tournament ... but very easily could be one or two wins at best.

A home loss at this point in the season, and to a team that isn't even very good. I'm glad I quit making the 150 mile round trip weeks ago. This is a mediocre team, with mediocre talent and mediocre coaching. Not a BAD team, just a team that doesn't stand out in any way from the rest of the MAC trash. The program is miles from when they used to be the top program in the MAC.

(02-08-2017 11:44 AM)Muskrat Wrote:  A home loss at this point in the season, and to a team that isn't even very good. I'm glad I quit making the 150 mile round trip weeks ago. This is a mediocre team, with mediocre talent and mediocre coaching. Not a BAD team, just a team that doesn't stand out in any way from the rest of the MAC trash. The program is miles from when they used to be the top program in the MAC.

I beg to differ on the overall quality of the league ... average compared to its current peers, yes, after Akron ...

But I would argue previous doormats - BG, BSU, NIU, CMU, EMU - are all far and away better than they were even 4 years ago while the rest have stayed about the same ... to have 11 of 12 teams still viable for second place at this point in the season is unheard of ... and I can see where if any number of teams put it together as Buffalo looks to be right now, they can advance to the NCAA Tournament.

I do agree not many teams are 'there' right now ... and time is running short ...

but I also believe if CMU, BSU, Toledo, Kent, OU even WMU and/or EMU get on a Buffalo roll, watch out.

There are no easy marks after Miami and even the RedHawks have shown they can rise up ... This Kent team lacks an on-court leader ... that's the difference in all those close loses IMO ... but in terms of overall roster talent Kent can match up with any other roster in the MAC (PG aside). ...

Finding/developing an on-court leader is key going forward ... and that is something nobody knows if they have one or not until the lights are on and the pressure is being applied.

I would venture to say most coaches in the MAC this year are having the same issue ... it's not talent. It's leadership.

5-6, 13-11 overall practically screams "Mediocrity". The MAC is much weaker than it once was, but it is true that the worst teams are much closer to pack than at one time. There are no teams so horrible that they are practically an automatic win. But, the top teams, whoever they are other than Akron, are not very impressive, either. If Akron gets upset in the MAC tournament, the winner will probably have the worst seed a MAC winner has had since the NCAA expanded to 64 or more teams.

(02-08-2017 01:40 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  5-6, 13-11 overall practically screams "Mediocrity". The MAC is much weaker than it once was, but it is true that the worst teams are much closer to pack than at one time. There are no teams so horrible that they are practically an automatic win. But, the top teams, whoever they are other than Akron, are not very impressive, either. If Akron gets upset in the MAC tournament, the winner will probably have the worst seed a MAC winner has had since the NCAA expanded to 64 or more teams.

Don't look at the records ... look at the talent. ... MAC winner will be a 13-14 seed as usual. Akron could be higher.

OU was just another talented but so-so MAC team until they put it together late in the season and won the MAC Tournament. ... Buffalo recently the same.

Nothing has changed ... just more MAC teams fit the same profile ... waiting/hoping to get hot.

Akron, assuming they win the tourney and don't lose before then, is being projected as a 13 seed. You can bet if they do lose before the final it will be even higher. Anyone else is looking at a 15-16 seed. The best the MAC can hope for in an opponent is a 4 seed and probably tougher. Can you say "MAC one and done"?

"Look at the talent". What talent? Who besides the two seniors has shown any consistency in their performances? So, this is what Kent State basketball has come to - hang around .500 and hope to get "hot" at the end of the season? Hope that they, more than any of the other half dozen so-so teams, are the ones who get hot? Sad.

(02-08-2017 06:02 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  "Look at the talent". What talent? Who besides the two seniors has shown any consistency in their performances? So, this is what Kent State basketball has come to - hang around .500 and hope to get "hot" at the end of the season? Hope that they, more than any of the other half dozen so-so teams, are the ones who get hot? Sad.

A very rough patch at the moment, indeed. However, I LOVED what I saw from Pippen last night. He will get better, especially if his basketball IQ is what Ty believes it is. Both Walkers and Peterson will get better over the summer, when they figure out what they have to improve on. Add the fact that Duling is coming and I am really excited for NEXT YEAR. This all hinges on nailing down the point guard position. If any of these guys Kent offered bites, then I think magic is going to happen. I really do. But, I know. It's hard to watch right now. We just have to trust what the staff has set in motion will pay off once all the pieces arrive. Which, IMO, is next year, possibly the year after.

KSU Agee, I agree to the extent that I see POTENTIAL talent in all the younger players, but which ones will blossom is anybody's guess.

(02-08-2017 08:19 PM)Muskrat Wrote:  KSU Agee, I agree to the extent that I see POTENTIAL talent in all the younger players, but which ones will blossom is anybody's guess.

If they don't, and the staff missed on them, it will be very ugly. But let's not think about that

Ironic that our two Seniors (and probably 2 best all-around players) are the ones who often play out of control and fail in critical points of the games. I don't know if it's simply trying to do too much or a lack of BB IQ but I think it certainly doesn't help the underclassmen.

We have many talented Freshmen and Sophomores but the've got to get over this "I'm the man" mentality and play team ball.

just my 2 cents...

(02-09-2017 07:41 AM)Old School Flash Wrote:  Ironic that our two Seniors (and probably 2 best all-around players) are the ones who often play out of control and fail in critical points of the games. I don't know if it's simply trying to do too much or a lack of BB IQ but I think it certainly doesn't help the underclassmen.

We have many talented Freshmen and Sophomores but the've got to get over this "I'm the man" mentality and play team ball.

just my 2 cents...

I still think the issue is PG play and leadership ... and by leadership I mean understanding time, place and position ... Tuesday's game was won ... then lost, because of that alone. And probably a few more games as well.

Young guys (JW aside) are not comfortable (and perhaps MP and DP are not encouraged) to push the envelope. I get this to an extent considering a coach can't have everybody going off ... on this team JH and JW are the only two that really do push overdrive regularly with DE on occasion.

The problem is nobody (PG/leadership???) on the court can slow them down and lets face it ... those two guys are probably deaf to any sideline pleading to stop at this point in the season.

Again ... a couple of tough bitter home losses, but still winners in four of last six ... let's see oif they regroup again.

(02-09-2017 11:28 AM)cleveland Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 07:41 AM)Old School Flash Wrote:  Ironic that our two Seniors (and probably 2 best all-around players) are the ones who often play out of control and fail in critical points of the games. I don't know if it's simply trying to do too much or a lack of BB IQ but I think it certainly doesn't help the underclassmen.

We have many talented Freshmen and Sophomores but the've got to get over this "I'm the man" mentality and play team ball.

just my 2 cents...

I still think the issue is PG play and leadership ... and by leadership I mean understanding time, place and position ... Tuesday's game was won ... then lost, because of that alone. And probably a few more games as well.

Young guys (JW aside) are not comfortable (and perhaps MP and DP are not encouraged) to push the envelope. I get this to an extent considering a coach can't have everybody going off ... on this team JH and JW are the only two that really do push overdrive regularly with DE on occasion.

The problem is nobody (PG/leadership???) on the court can slow them down and lets face it ... those two guys are probably deaf to any sideline pleading to stop at this point in the season.

Again ... a couple of tough bitter home losses, but still winners in four of last six ... let's see oif they regroup again.

I agree that this is a large part of what has caused KSU problems over the last few seasons. The lack of development is the piece that I find frustrating. For a while it was trying to make point guards out of guys that clearly should be playing off the basketball.

Then the injury to Kellon Thomas set them back...but I mean, isn't that a position that screams for at least a tad of depth?? Then Thomas transfers out and the two (maybe three) point guards on the roster just don't look comfortable running the show, particularly at winning time.

I know this won't be popular but here is a big difference over the last few seasons...Antino Jackson, Noah Robatham, Carmelo Bettancourt, Nyles Evans and Mr. Nice Guy.

(02-09-2017 12:02 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 11:28 AM)cleveland Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 07:41 AM)Old School Flash Wrote:  Ironic that our two Seniors (and probably 2 best all-around players) are the ones who often play out of control and fail in critical points of the games. I don't know if it's simply trying to do too much or a lack of BB IQ but I think it certainly doesn't help the underclassmen.

We have many talented Freshmen and Sophomores but the've got to get over this "I'm the man" mentality and play team ball.

just my 2 cents...

I still think the issue is PG play and leadership ... and by leadership I mean understanding time, place and position ... Tuesday's game was won ... then lost, because of that alone. And probably a few more games as well.

Young guys (JW aside) are not comfortable (and perhaps MP and DP are not encouraged) to push the envelope. I get this to an extent considering a coach can't have everybody going off ... on this team JH and JW are the only two that really do push overdrive regularly with DE on occasion.

The problem is nobody (PG/leadership???) on the court can slow them down and lets face it ... those two guys are probably deaf to any sideline pleading to stop at this point in the season.

Again ... a couple of tough bitter home losses, but still winners in four of last six ... let's see oif they regroup again.

I agree that this is a large part of what has caused KSU problems over the last few seasons. The lack of development is the piece that I find frustrating. For a while it was trying to make point guards out of guys that clearly should be playing off the basketball.

Then the injury to Kellon Thomas set them back...but I mean, isn't that a position that screams for at least a tad of depth?? Then Thomas transfers out and the two (maybe three) point guards on the roster just don't look comfortable running the show, particularly at winning time.

I know this won't be popular but here is a big difference over the last few seasons...Antino Jackson, Noah Robatham, Carmelo Bettancourt, Nyles Evans and Mr. Nice Guy.

Who is Mr. Nice Guy ...

Personally, I'd take Jackson all day long ... Robotham as a quality backup .. the other two you can have.

That said (particularly Robotham) ... is perfect for how Akron plays, but I don't think is anywhere near the kind of defensive guard Kent would want ... Jackson fits .... and like I said the other two you can have with full blessings.

(02-09-2017 12:39 PM)cleveland Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 12:02 PM)fallsdog Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 11:28 AM)cleveland Wrote:  

(02-09-2017 07:41 AM)Old School Flash Wrote:  Ironic that our two Seniors (and probably 2 best all-around players) are the ones who often play out of control and fail in critical points of the games. I don't know if it's simply trying to do too much or a lack of BB IQ but I think it certainly doesn't help the underclassmen.

We have many talented Freshmen and Sophomores but the've got to get over this "I'm the man" mentality and play team ball.

just my 2 cents...

I still think the issue is PG play and leadership ... and by leadership I mean understanding time, place and position ... Tuesday's game was won ... then lost, because of that alone. And probably a few more games as well.

Young guys (JW aside) are not comfortable (and perhaps MP and DP are not encouraged) to push the envelope. I get this to an extent considering a coach can't have everybody going off ... on this team JH and JW are the only two that really do push overdrive regularly with DE on occasion.

The problem is nobody (PG/leadership???) on the court can slow them down and lets face it ... those two guys are probably deaf to any sideline pleading to stop at this point in the season.

Again ... a couple of tough bitter home losses, but still winners in four of last six ... let's see oif they regroup again.

I agree that this is a large part of what has caused KSU problems over the last few seasons. The lack of development is the piece that I find frustrating. For a while it was trying to make point guards out of guys that clearly should be playing off the basketball.

Then the injury to Kellon Thomas set them back...but I mean, isn't that a position that screams for at least a tad of depth?? Then Thomas transfers out and the two (maybe three) point guards on the roster just don't look comfortable running the show, particularly at winning time.

I know this won't be popular but here is a big difference over the last few seasons...Antino Jackson, Noah Robatham, Carmelo Bettancourt, Nyles Evans and Mr. Nice Guy.

Who is Mr. Nice Guy ...

Personally, I'd take Jackson all day long ... Robotham as a quality backup .. the other two you can have.

That said (particularly Robotham) ... is perfect for how Akron plays, but I don't think is anywhere near the kind of defensive guard Kent would want ... Jackson fits .... and like I said the other two you can have with full blessings.

Also ... you mention the last few seasons???

Two years ago Brewer and Jackson led the team to a share of the MAC title ... last season Thomas/Pollard had Kent in first place before the injuries hit ...

Now this year, bigtime ???? .... but 'the last few seasons' ... needs to be amended IMO

My thoughts are as follows... Jackson was not a point guard. Talented basketball player, absolutely. Great defender, athletic but A floor general he was not.

Pollard was a huge loss last season, tough, gritty with the ability to create his own shot. a point guard?? no. he didn't have the feet or the vision for that.

and Kris Brewer. Closest thing to a point IMO because he was a will to win guy. Loved watching him play basketball. If I remember this board was rough on him at times but man he played through some things. But he was a 2. I swear that he was sold short at KSU because he was forced into PG duty. It was tough on him trying to keep up with some of those little PG critters on defense.

Mr. Nice guy....a movie reference. Dave Chappelle and Jim Brewer are in the movie. I imagine you will be able to figure out which former Akron PG I am referring to if you look it up. I WANT TO TALK TO SAMPSON!

We can analyze this team up and down, all day, but the biggest flaw is that our 2 seniors had 12 turn overs in this game. Someone mentioned that they are our 2 best players. Turn overs and ball protection is as much a part of a player's game as points scored. In fact it is more important. Most of the time these 2 are turning the ball over on our end of the court, robbing us of an opportunity to score 3 or two. In turn, the other team is beating our turn over guy down the floor, as he is sulking and waltzing down the floor, allowing an easy bucket. I call that a 4 point deficit. The real shame in all this is that yes, JH has the tools to win those games for us. IMO, he has not, he will not and should not even be on the floor during those situations. I do not like to put down our coach, but he has placed way too much emphasis on one player, one filled with flaws. It is obvious that the game plan is for JH to get the ball on every possession. The problem of his TO's are bad enough, but it has built a team personality of stagnation. (IOW, watch JH play) This takes responsibility away from point guard development. We are being beaten by some pretty bad teams. I could write another paragraph about our flawed defense, but I think I did that somewhere else. We are all dissatisfied.

I believe it was the Texas game where the star sat on the bench a good part of the game and we played better than when he was in there. Interesting....