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ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
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arkstfan Away
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Post: #41
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 02:36 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  All we're saying is that this time, Baylor, the NCAA knows full well that it lacks jurisdiction. So it won't do anything. Which is correct.

NCAA does have at least some jurisdiction here.
Players who should have been suspended or expelled under university rules is an NCAA violation.
Providing players with the benefit of escaping civil and criminal liability is an NCAA violation.

NCAA doesn't have anything on the books about pervy assistant coaches abusing non-students. Lots of rules about what players can get for being a student-athlete.
02-03-2017 02:42 PM
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adcorbett Offline
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Post: #42
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
Anyone remember where Baylor was as an athletic department about 7 or 8 years ago? Sp toxicly bad they were almost left for dead? Is it possible these scandals push them back there?
02-03-2017 02:43 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #43
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Players who should have been suspended or expelled under university rules is an NCAA violation.

Define "should have". How can you prove this??? Did you go into a magical machine where you could peer into an alternate university where a panel of Baylor employees reviewed the evidence and recommended suspension or expulsion??

(02-03-2017 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Providing players with the benefit of escaping civil and criminal liability is an NCAA violation.

This is a big fat "nice try".

That's not an impermissible benefit ... that's simply a crime. The NCAA is not law enforcement, and has no business pretending to be.




It's really as simple as this: Baylor is a collection of buildings. Buildings don't sexually assault people. Buildings don't commit crimes. Buildings don't bribe or threaten people.

A collection of buildings can never be defined by the improper or even evil actions of a person or a few people.

Punish those people, for their actions. Don't punish a collection of buildings, or people who utilize them now, after the fact. 07-coffee3
02-03-2017 02:54 PM
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Post: #44
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 02:43 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Anyone remember where Baylor was as an athletic department about 7 or 8 years ago? Sp toxicly bad they were almost left for dead? Is it possible these scandals push them back there?

I know we live in largely a secular world these days, but Baylor is a Southern Baptist seminary. That's a reasonably conservative seminary. To me what gets lost in the horrific details of all of this is just how totally hypocritical the whole thing is. It is the essence of defying the mission of that school at the academic level. It is wholly foreign and hostile to it's spiritual endeavors. I think this observation is fair because it has been used against other such schools in the past (B.Y.U., Notre Dame, even Duke). In the other cases I'm not sure it was fair to assail the schools for the crimes, or alleged crimes of individuals. But here, and according to the details of the released information, there was knowledge all the way up the ladder and an intentional skirting of the individuals responsible for conduct on the campus. It simply adds yet another level to the disgust surrounding the whole scandal IMO.
02-03-2017 02:54 PM
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Post: #45
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
If I'm not mistaken the NCAA is on record (at least unofficially) that they'll never use the death penalty again after the damage it caused to SMU football. People forget that Baylor has a strong athletic department and they have a strong basketball program which was ranked #1 a few weeks back, a national women's basketball program, a solid baseball program, strong Olympic sports, state of the art on campus facilities which includes its new football stadium and access to Central Texas recruiting. The Big XII won't kick them out, they might do institutional procedures like making Baylor ineligible for a bowl(s), automatic disqualification for the new Big XII CCG for a number of years, a public reprimand from the conference, etc. but they won't kick Baylor out. G5 conferences like C-USA, MWC and AAC won't be getting any Baylor inquiries for possible membership anytime time soon. If Baylor didn't get kicked out when they covered a murder for a basketball player that was before Baylor got serious with its athletic department and when the Big XII was perhaps the top BCS conference which could afford to lose one school and have its pick of available schools in the Big East and probably the ACC as well. If it didn't happen then, it won't happen now.
02-03-2017 03:03 PM
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CliftonAve Offline
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Post: #46
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
To flip the switch on this thread (for those who think Baylor should not receive the Death Penalty:) Is there any offense that you would deem worthy of the Death Penalty?

I ask that question because in the past several years we have seen rape, child rape, academic scandal, cash payouts, bought and paid for strippers, abortions, drugs, etc. go buy with a slap on the wrist. At what point would you consider the line to be crossed?
02-03-2017 03:04 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #47
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 03:04 PM)CliftonAve Wrote:  To flip the switch on this thread (for those who think Baylor should not receive the Death Penalty:) Is there any offense that you would deem worthy of the Death Penalty?

I ask that question because in the past several years we have seen rape, child rape, academic scandal, cash payouts, bought and paid for strippers, abortions, drugs, etc. go buy with a slap on the wrist. At what point would you consider the line to be crossed?

People can't help themselves but to misunderstand the "violation space" in which the NCAA does/should operate, simply because they find a particular crime to be appalling.



So to answer your question, it would have to be something like a long history of outright bribing recruits with cash and other financial benefits, helping players cheat classes to stay eligible, using ineligible players during games, and performing other methods of cheating during games (pay people on the other team to play badly, or give up info of plays, etc.)

Like, going on for a decade, with intimate knowledge and personal involvement by the head coaches, athletic directors, and university presidents during that timeframe.



THAT is the space where the NCAA lives. In such a case, maybe you could consider the death penalty.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 03:11 PM by MplsBison.)
02-03-2017 03:08 PM
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HeartOfDixie Offline
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Post: #48
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 09:20 AM)Carolina Stang Wrote:  If these lawsuits settle for what I think they will, Baylor is in much more trouble financially - Title 9 is in play here so while NCAA may not do anything, DOE and DOJ could.

I'd call that wishful thinking for somebody that would love to see Baylor burn to the ground.

In reality, that's just silly.

This whole thing is going to be a stain on Baylor's reputation for some time but in the end will be little more than that.
(This post was last modified: 02-03-2017 03:11 PM by HeartOfDixie.)
02-03-2017 03:10 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #49
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
Yeah ... at the end of the day, the vision for title IX was not to destroy otherwise viable institutions, as a retribution for failing to have sufficient female participation.

It was to foster and incentivize a feeling that female participation is a good thing and that it should be built up, appropriately.
02-03-2017 03:14 PM
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Post: #50
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 02:54 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Players who should have been suspended or expelled under university rules is an NCAA violation.

Define "should have". How can you prove this??? Did you go into a magical machine where you could peer into an alternate university where a panel of Baylor employees reviewed the evidence and recommended suspension or expulsion??

(02-03-2017 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Providing players with the benefit of escaping civil and criminal liability is an NCAA violation.

This is a big fat "nice try".

That's not an impermissible benefit ... that's simply a crime. The NCAA is not law enforcement, and has no business pretending to be.




It's really as simple as this: Baylor is a collection of buildings. Buildings don't sexually assault people. Buildings don't commit crimes. Buildings don't bribe or threaten people.

A collection of buildings can never be defined by the improper or even evil actions of a person or a few people.

Punish those people, for their actions. Don't punish a collection of buildings, or people who utilize them now, after the fact. 07-coffee3

You know your snark can be entertaining when you know something about the topic but you are a truly ignorant on this subject.

I know for damned fact schools have been punished for playing players who eligible under NCAA rules but not school rules. I also know there have been punishments for helping players avoid civil and criminal liability but snark us off some ill informed entertainment.
02-03-2017 04:12 PM
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MplsBison Offline
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Post: #51
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 04:12 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  schools have been punished for playing players who eligible under NCAA rules but not school rules

That's not the same thing as you proposed.

- your above quote means the school suspended a player, but the coach played him anyway. Sure, that's a violation that the NCAA can enforce.
- you were proposing that Baylor should have suspended a player, but didn't. Which is not only unprovable, but clearly outside the NCAA's realm


(02-03-2017 04:12 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  I also know there have been punishments for helping players avoid civil and criminal liability

You'll have to be more specific, but I doubt it. Otherwise, it was an overreach by the NCAA, which is obviously possible.
02-03-2017 04:20 PM
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Post: #52
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 02:54 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Players who should have been suspended or expelled under university rules is an NCAA violation.

Define "should have". How can you prove this??? Did you go into a magical machine where you could peer into an alternate university where a panel of Baylor employees reviewed the evidence and recommended suspension or expulsion??

(02-03-2017 02:42 PM)arkstfan Wrote:  Providing players with the benefit of escaping civil and criminal liability is an NCAA violation.

This is a big fat "nice try".

That's not an impermissible benefit ... that's simply a crime. The NCAA is not law enforcement, and has no business pretending to be.




It's really as simple as this: Baylor is a collection of buildings. Buildings don't sexually assault people. Buildings don't commit crimes. Buildings don't bribe or threaten people.

A collection of buildings can never be defined by the improper or even evil actions of a person or a few people.

Punish those people, for their actions. Don't punish a collection of buildings, or people who utilize them now, after the fact. 07-coffee3

So it's not just a bunch of buildings then. The schools and any school is more than just the buildings in a vacuum. Without the people there they are just that, buildings.
02-03-2017 04:22 PM
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Post: #53
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
So you propose to punish the people who use a building, because a previous user of the same building committed a crime??

Tough for me to sign on to that.
02-03-2017 04:31 PM
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Post: #54
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 02:43 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  Anyone remember where Baylor was as an athletic department about 7 or 8 years ago? Sp toxicly bad they were almost left for dead? Is it possible these scandals push them back there?

I remember going to an OU Baylor game in 2000. I lived in Dallas at the time and it was much easier to go to a Baylor game as here were hardly any fans and parking was a breeze. I remember there was a guy waking around with a sign that said "Congratulations Baylor for the Texas 4A runner up season". I think there were more OU fans at the game than Baylor fans.

From what I see recruiting in football and on the BB and WBB court Baylor is looking pretty strong right now. I'd love to see them fall off and hopefully football will but I suspect the other programs will continue to perform well.
02-03-2017 07:27 PM
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Post: #55
ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
Gosh Iam sure glad we fired briles when we did. Houston is lucky he and his lying son are long gone
02-03-2017 08:07 PM
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Post: #56
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
In a perfect world, Baylor athletics would be put on ice for a while after having both Briles and Dave Bliss scum their way to success. But it's not a perfect world and Baylor's a big name, so expect them to get a stern talking to and the NCAA to stick UT-Rio Grande Valley on notice for this reprehensible behavior.
02-03-2017 09:38 PM
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RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 09:38 PM)Mav Wrote:  In a perfect world, Baylor athletics would be put on ice for a while after having both Briles and Dave Bliss scum their way to success. But it's not a perfect world and Baylor's a big name, so expect them to get a stern talking to and the NCAA to stick UT-Rio Grande Valley on notice for this reprehensible behavior.


Baylor is not a blue chip name like Penn State. As it was, they and TCU was snubbed the first year of the layoffs because they are no-names in favor of Ohio State.
02-04-2017 10:17 AM
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RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-03-2017 04:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  So you propose to punish the people who use a building, because a previous user of the same building committed a crime??

Tough for me to sign on to that.

It wasn't one person dude. That's the point. A ton of people got fired over this.
02-04-2017 03:49 PM
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Post: #59
RE: ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
(02-04-2017 03:49 PM)canewton Wrote:  
(02-03-2017 04:31 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  So you propose to punish the people who use a building, because a previous user of the same building committed a crime??

Tough for me to sign on to that.

It wasn't one person dude. That's the point. A ton of people got fired over this.

Not to mention the precedent that's set if the NCAA does nothing about this.

Baylor covered things up for as long as possible and only once they got caught did they fire people. It's hard to believe people are okay with no punishment to covering things up as long as they fire people when they get caught.
02-04-2017 11:05 PM
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Post: #60
ESPN: Art Briles Bombshell...Death Penalty Worthy?!?! For Baylor...
Does the four-letter network want Baylor to get the death penalty so the Big 12 will replace them?
02-05-2017 07:43 AM
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