Q: just curious what you guys think about the 4-star grey-shirt at Alabama. What doe$ it take to get a 4-$tar player to $it out a year at his own expen$e? Are they cheating in Tu$caloo$a?

(02-02-2017 04:29 PM)Lou_C Wrote:  And by big thing with hiring Mendenhall is not so much taking a flyer on a guy from another region. Sure, it's odd and it's a risk, but if you have a chance to get a really good coach, you go for it.

However, what I don't get is how an administration could be so out of touch with today's game to hire a guy with such a disdain for the recruiting game. You can like recruiting, or regret what recruiting has become, but denying the reality of recruiting in today's landscape...man, how can you be so disconnected to hire a guy like that.

It's not like Mendenhall came in with the rep as a tireless recruiter, and didn't deliver, he's made no effort to hide how he feels about it....

"Advocates say the camps allow players to be seen by more coaches, including from schools they could not afford to visit on their own.
Mendenhall said he believes most players these days have no problem being seen.
“I really like the idea of, without satellite camps, seeing where the players are willing to travel. It demonstrates the interest level in a particular school, and it allows them to see that particular school up close and personal while they’re there,” he said."

I wish I could find some of the more damning comments he had about recruiting when he was originally hired, I'm not finding them now, but I remember reading them thinking "uh oh."

I don't know much about BYU but IF it's basically just a Mormons only university then I would imagine he is use to a completely different recruiting styles then basically everyone else in the FBS.

(02-02-2017 04:34 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  Q: just curious what you guys think about the 4-star grey-shirt at Alabama. What doe$ it take to get a 4-$tar player to $it out a year at his own expen$e? Are they cheating in Tu$caloo$a?

It's really absolutely insane. Or that they landed something like four of the top 12 receivers, despite having a running back playing quarterback, and never featuring more than one receiver in a given season, and already being loaded with receivers. That's really almost as ludicrous.

I'm sure they are cheating...I'm not sure they're cheating much MORE than any of the 20 or so most elite programs...but I suspect they're doing it better.

The thing is...I really think that they are at the point where a lot of other individuals do their cheating for them. I think a lot of the benefits these kids get, whether cars arrangements or cash, are set up by these street agents, these uncles and advisors.

These street agents are all about ingratiating themselves with these guys, hoping to cash in on the ride up. These advisors get taken care of by schools sometimes, often by agents, and hope to end up on the entourage payroll.

Street agents are usually serious hustlers with legit connections with both legit and illegitimate movers in the community alike. I don't think it's all that hard for them to get kids a car to ride around in, or some cash here and there or new shoes.

And these "advisors" are all about Bama, because all they care about is their kid making the league. And when they land their kid at Bama, that gives them a hell of a lot more cache with the next kid coming up in the community. Landing that kid at Illinois or Missouri or somewhere else where they'd start immediately, or have more room to grow, or get a better education or whatever, that just doesn't come into play.

I really suspect Bama is at a point now where the entire system does a lot of the cheating for them. I bet they're pretty judicious about how and where they make their improper plays.

I think it's probably at the schools that are playing catch up where the cheating is a lot more directly managed and over the top.

Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

I'm not an expert in the slightest and can't offer much insight here, but something interesting to consider about NC State's current run of mediocrity in football and basketball was mentioned by Lauren Brownlow (sportswriter from the Triangle) recently on the ACC Basketball Degenerates podcast...

She mentioned that Debbie Yow's pending retirement in 2019 is kind of putting NC State in a holding pattern for the moment. I think it's why you might see Doeren & Gottfried in Raleigh for a couple more years, as my guess is that Yow doesn't want to make a change now knowing that the next AD might want to make their own hires.

VT ran into this problem a little bit on the men's basketball side before Jim Weaver retired. After firing Seth Greenberg, there wasn't a great succession plan in place. Weaver knew he was near the end of his tenure and ended up hiring a guy in James Johnson who had no business being a head coach at the time. The basketball program went into the tank until Whit Babcock's hiring as AD, where his first move was to fire Johnson & hire Buzz Williams within his first two months on the job.

Until we know Yow's replacement, it's really hard to see what the future is for NC State athletics.

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

I'm sure Lumberpack will be here shortly with 2000 words for you LOL...

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because they're NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

That's really all you need to know.

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

A lot of bad hires in key positions. Two train wreck ADs back to back, mediocre hires like Tom Obrien, Doeren, and Gottfried and then just flat out awful hires like Sidney Lowe.

(02-02-2017 03:22 PM)nole Wrote:  UVA should be the Stanford of the ACC in football. I'm very serious about that.

You will never convince me it is anything other than simply not caring. They have it all. Great location (for recruiting and TV market), great campus, great academics, great weather, tons of $$$$, brand name (albeit not in football), and boat loads of super elite wealthy alumni.

They are basically, the Ivy League, they don't want to participate. They are kinda pregnant (semi Ivy Semi P5). It's a problem for the ACC IMHO. Some schools are dead weight because their ceiling is low......UVA could EASILY help carry the ACC a good distance with what their potential is. Just to rich, elite, and disinterested to care.

https://twitter.com/CanesHoops/status/82...1456726016

sounds like Miami absent fat cats ...

DOUBLE TAKE

(02-03-2017 10:25 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

I'm sure Lumberpack will be here shortly with 2000 words for you LOL...

I had typed a very similar response then thought better of it.

(02-03-2017 10:09 AM)H.U.S.T.L.E. Wrote:  

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

I'm not an expert in the slightest and can't offer much insight here, but something interesting to consider about NC State's current run of mediocrity in football and basketball was mentioned by Lauren Brownlow (sportswriter from the Triangle) recently on the ACC Basketball Degenerates podcast...

She mentioned that Debbie Yow's pending retirement in 2019 is kind of putting NC State in a holding pattern for the moment. I think it's why you might see Doeren & Gottfried in Raleigh for a couple more years, as my guess is that Yow doesn't want to make a change now knowing that the next AD might want to make their own hires.

VT ran into this problem a little bit on the men's basketball side before Jim Weaver retired. After firing Seth Greenberg, there wasn't a great succession plan in place. Weaver knew he was near the end of his tenure and ended up hiring a guy in James Johnson who had no business being a head coach at the time. The basketball program went into the tank until Whit Babcock's hiring as AD, where his first move was to fire Johnson & hire Buzz Williams within his first two months on the job.

Until we know Yow's replacement, it's really hard to see what the future is for NC State athletics.

That line of thought only works if you ignore the fact that NC State's athletic mediocrity spans multiple ADs/Presidents/BOT members. At some point one has stop pointing fingers at the individuals and realize that the problem is not an administrative one, it's a cultural one. Debbie Yow isn't the reason why their stadium empties at halftime and despite passouts doesn't fill back up in the second half. She's not the reason why their away game attendance is laughable everywhere outside of the Triangle. She's not the reason that NC State athletics is in the same position it was under Lee Fowler. Or Les Robinson. Or Todd Turner. Or Harold Hopfenburg.

(02-02-2017 07:42 PM)Terp_stuck_in_NC Wrote:  Can any of you educate me on NC state football? I'm surrounded mostly by UNC and ECU fans where I live and always get the "because their NC state" response from them. I always thought they had the potential to be a true consistent threat against the Atlantic powers. What is holding the program back, or is it nothing and I'm just being naive about their potential?

I suspect by your screen name that you aren't native to this area, and that you aren't exactly thrilled to be here. I'm guessing if you are surrounded "mostly by UNC and ECU fans" that you live east of Raleigh. I, too, am not a native, having moved here 44 years ago. My wife's family migrated south from Virginia in the late 1600's, settling in Wayne County. I was a season ticket holder at State for about 10 years. So I've had both the time and inclination to ponder your question about NC State football, and have observed UNC, State and ECU fans in their natural habitat for a while.

Granted, this is just one man's perspective, but I'll take a stab at your question. NC State is very much a "middle child" in the state, in more ways than just athletics. ECU is the kid brother. Both fan bases believe deeply that the snobs at UNC (and they are snobs) are living off the unfair advantages they have because that's where most of the old money and political power went to school. That's no doubt true, but the two younger brothers respond differently to that reality.

In my experience (both familial and collegial) ECU fans use this as motivation - they have a big chip on their shoulder. Because not only are they generally dismissed by Carolina fans, but also because they get similar treatment from State fans. State fans often seem to me to use their perceived mistreatment by UNC as en excuse for underperforming.

But none of that should affect on field performance by State teams, and in fact I can't say I've ever felt State's athletes were negatively affected by its fan base. The fact is that State's record in football isn't much different than Carolina's. Neither has won a conference title since Georgia Tech replaced South Carolina as the eighth ACC member. If you are a recruit, that's a very long time - ancient history.

So, recruits aren't picking UNC over State based on either school's history as a football school. There have to be other reasons. One that I can think of is location. You might think some recruits would prefer the atmosphere of a big city, and Raleigh is way bigger than Chapel Hill. But have you been to Raleigh? I may be old, but I don't think I'm so old as to forget the kind of attractions a college student might be looking for. And Raleigh just doesn't have many of those. It may be a great place to raise a family, but I can't see the attraction for a 19 year old.

Girls? State probably has 3 men for every 2 women, the opposite of Carolina. In small town Chapel Hill, a football player has more status than he would in Raleigh, IMO. And, for whatever reason, and despite their long standing mediocrity in football, the TV networks seem to love them. They get more and better exposure against national brands, even though they rarely win one of those marquee games.

Over the long run, Carolina seems to get more of the piedmont area's top players (especially from Charlotte and Greensboro), and State is battling ECU as well for the best players in the eastern part of the state and the next echelon of potential recruits. Maybe potential coaches see this as a battle they don't care to fight, perpetuating the problem.

It's a tough cycle to break.