(01-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You guys realize how easy it is to flip this around? It would give a single guy free reign to screw who he wants and when he wants with zero repercussions.

I fully understand. That is why I said "some" men..above.

At some point as a society...we have to understand that "responsibility" comes first. That applies to BOTH parties. There is almost ZERO reason for unwanted pregnancies. We have the medical technology easily accessible to prevent this problem...especially if both parties are protected. The likely chance of getting pregnant using proper contraception is extremely rare. Abortions should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. The rest? You made it?...you raise it..or..give it up to a family that will love it.

Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

Nothing is different about the fetus. It is victim of an irresponsible or violent act.

It's hardest to be pro-life in those situations but a persons rights are a persons rights. We don't distinguish between my rights as someone born into a loving marriage and the rights of the guy down the street who's mother was raped.

It's all about when it's a baby.

(01-26-2017 09:31 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You guys realize how easy it is to flip this around? It would give a single guy free reign to screw who he wants and when he wants with zero repercussions.

I fully understand. That is why I said "some" men..above.

At some point as a society...we have to understand that "responsibility" comes first. That applies to BOTH parties. There is almost ZERO reason for unwanted pregnancies. We have the medical technology easily accessible to prevent this problem...especially if both parties are protected. The likely chance of getting pregnant using proper contraception is extremely rare. Abortions should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. The rest? You made it?...you raise it..or..give it up to a family that will love it.

Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

It has the genes of a rapist

So does Chelsea Clinton, that does not mean her rights are lesser than mine.

(01-26-2017 10:18 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 09:31 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You guys realize how easy it is to flip this around? It would give a single guy free reign to screw who he wants and when he wants with zero repercussions.

I fully understand. That is why I said "some" men..above.

At some point as a society...we have to understand that "responsibility" comes first. That applies to BOTH parties. There is almost ZERO reason for unwanted pregnancies. We have the medical technology easily accessible to prevent this problem...especially if both parties are protected. The likely chance of getting pregnant using proper contraception is extremely rare. Abortions should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. The rest? You made it?...you raise it..or..give it up to a family that will love it.

Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

It has the genes of a rapist

So does Chelsea Clinton, that does not mean her rights are lesser than mine.

Does she?

(01-26-2017 10:32 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 10:18 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 09:31 PM)Claw Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I fully understand. That is why I said "some" men..above.

At some point as a society...we have to understand that "responsibility" comes first. That applies to BOTH parties. There is almost ZERO reason for unwanted pregnancies. We have the medical technology easily accessible to prevent this problem...especially if both parties are protected. The likely chance of getting pregnant using proper contraception is extremely rare. Abortions should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. The rest? You made it?...you raise it..or..give it up to a family that will love it.

Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

It has the genes of a rapist

So does Chelsea Clinton, that does not mean her rights are lesser than mine.

Does she?

Well if Juanita Broaddrick is telling the truth and if Hillary was faithful to Bill..

(01-26-2017 10:15 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:16 PM)miko33 Wrote:  You guys realize how easy it is to flip this around? It would give a single guy free reign to screw who he wants and when he wants with zero repercussions.

I fully understand. That is why I said "some" men..above.

At some point as a society...we have to understand that "responsibility" comes first. That applies to BOTH parties. There is almost ZERO reason for unwanted pregnancies. We have the medical technology easily accessible to prevent this problem...especially if both parties are protected. The likely chance of getting pregnant using proper contraception is extremely rare. Abortions should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. The rest? You made it?...you raise it..or..give it up to a family that will love it.

Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

Nothing is different about the fetus. It is victim of an irresponsible or violent act.

It's hardest to be pro-life in those situations but a persons rights are a persons rights. We don't distinguish between my rights as someone born into a loving marriage and the rights of the guy down the street who's mother was raped.

It's all about when it's a baby.

I agree..it is all about when it is a baby...or fetus..or...............

Just wondering. Do you have a problem with a rape or incest victim using plan B? I have no problem answering...NO. I do however oppose the use of it as some shield from responsible behavior or as birth control.

(01-26-2017 10:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 10:15 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I fully understand. That is why I said "some" men..above.

At some point as a society...we have to understand that "responsibility" comes first. That applies to BOTH parties. There is almost ZERO reason for unwanted pregnancies. We have the medical technology easily accessible to prevent this problem...especially if both parties are protected. The likely chance of getting pregnant using proper contraception is extremely rare. Abortions should be allowed only in cases of rape, incest and life of the mother. The rest? You made it?...you raise it..or..give it up to a family that will love it.

Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

Nothing is different about the fetus. It is victim of an irresponsible or violent act.

It's hardest to be pro-life in those situations but a persons rights are a persons rights. We don't distinguish between my rights as someone born into a loving marriage and the rights of the guy down the street who's mother was raped.

It's all about when it's a baby.

I agree..it is all about when it is a baby...or fetus..or...............

Just wondering. Do you have a problem with a rape or incest victim using plan B? I have no problem answering...NO. I do however oppose the use of it as some shield from responsible behavior or as birth control.

I would need to better educate myself on the mechanism behind plan B.

Stop ovulation / fertilization -> then sure

But when we get into stopping a fertilized egg from implanting I feel that's a much more difficult question. If you beleive life begins at conception....

(01-26-2017 10:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 10:41 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 10:15 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 09:21 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 08:45 PM)Bull_Is_Back Wrote:  Rape and incest are horrible but I have to ask.... Why is it ok to abort a baby conceived in it but not from a drunken one night stand? What is different about the baby?

Nothing is different about the fetus. It is victim of an irresponsible or violent act.

It's hardest to be pro-life in those situations but a persons rights are a persons rights. We don't distinguish between my rights as someone born into a loving marriage and the rights of the guy down the street who's mother was raped.

It's all about when it's a baby.

I agree..it is all about when it is a baby...or fetus..or...............

Just wondering. Do you have a problem with a rape or incest victim using plan B? I have no problem answering...NO. I do however oppose the use of it as some shield from responsible behavior or as birth control.

I would need to better educate myself on the mechanism behind plan B.

Stop ovulation / fertilization -> then sure

But when we get into stopping a fertilized egg from implanting I feel that's a much more difficult question. If you beleive life begins at conception....

It is the morning after pill. In the case of rape of incest? I can not oppose its use regardless of its mechanism. I do however respect those with greater conviction to this issue than myself. I will leave it there.

Raping a 11 year old girl then the said girl became pregnant? There is history of this before. A girl in California was kidnapped and hold against her well at the age of 13, she gave birth to her first child. When the police found her when she was 29? She was hold in a cage with her two small children. Us guys do not know what women go through when they are raped or given birth. Imagine of you are a 13 year old girl? They are not mature enough for that trauma in their lives.

Being born from a 14 year old, after she ignored my father and grandma's wishes to get an abortion, give the fetus a chance. Not a political or religious view, a anecdotal one though.

Should add, my mom didn't ever make my dad pay child support despite the large wealth difference.

(01-27-2017 03:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Raping a 11 year old girl then the said girl became pregnant? There is history of this before. A girl in California was kidnapped and hold against her well at the age of 13, she gave birth to her first child. When the police found her when she was 29? She was hold in a cage with her two small children. Us guys do not know what women go through when they are raped or given birth. Imagine of you are a 13 year old girl? They are not mature enough for that trauma in their lives.

Yep. It's awful. It really is. It's disgusting.

Yet there is still no legitimizing the murder of the baby. The baby is still completely innocent in the matter.

(01-27-2017 04:52 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(01-27-2017 03:59 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Raping a 11 year old girl then the said girl became pregnant? There is history of this before. A girl in California was kidnapped and hold against her well at the age of 13, she gave birth to her first child. When the police found her when she was 29? She was hold in a cage with her two small children. Us guys do not know what women go through when they are raped or given birth. Imagine of you are a 13 year old girl? They are not mature enough for that trauma in their lives.

Yep. It's awful. It really is. It's disgusting.

Yet there is still no legitimizing the murder of the baby. The baby is still completely innocent in the matter.

Yeah, the problem is some women and the babies die at the same time still when trying to give birth. Both of my grandmothers had a lot of stillborns. My mother is an only child. She did had a brother, but he died a few days after birth. I do think aborting a baby to save the life of mother is okay. Even though our science of medicine is advance, we still have issues with child births were some women are having issues to give birth. That could lead to the death of both mother and child. After my mother had my sister, she can't have anymore children. The next one could have kill her if she got pregnant. That is why we need some of these women's health issues like contraceptives and birth control pills to help women so that they can't get pregnant. Those things are not just birth control, but help save women's lives so that they do not get pregnant. We need to find cures for women so that they do not face death if they try to have children.

(01-26-2017 09:52 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-26-2017 09:38 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I was staunchly pro choice for years...

The minute I saw the first ultrasound of my oldest son at 16 weeks it was like a knowledge bomb went off....I realized how much of a selfish prick I had been because of the convenience it would have provided and that this was a human being on that screen.

I would not pry and do not want to know if you ever used that "convenience" before that event...but..you touch on what bothers me about the Pro Choice radicals. Abortion should NEVER be used because you were simple irresponsible. There are thousand upon thousands of couples who can not conceive that would welcome and love any child as their own.

I didn't. But it was a philosophical get out of jail free card I kept in my back pocket for years just in case.

The issue is when human life begins. On that, there is not a consensus. Roe v. Wade was the Supreme Court stepping in and saying it was at 6 months, which was medical viability at that point in time.

Rape and incest are difficult. If you believe human life begins at conception, its hard to allow it then. But at the same time, you are balancing the mental health and time of the mother (a 9 month sentence reliving what happened) against an unwanted pregnancy. Making a rape and incest exception is saying the 9 month sentence to the mother is too high a price for her to pay and giving that a higher priority.

The fact that about 1/3 of first time pregnancies spontaneously abort does make that exception a little easier. Most people aren't aware that it happens that often. Its really not a good idea to disclose in the first 3 months.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/article...32913.html

"Abortion may be a women’s issue, but not in the way that the media and some politicians would like us to believe. Far from seeing abortion as a sacrosanct right to be defended, the overwhelming majority of women in this country want abortion restricted, and don’t want it funded by tax dollars. A majority also think it is morally wrong and that it causes more harm than good to women in the long run.
Such a statement isn’t guesswork, or based on anecdotal evidence. It is a fact, proven by the newly released survey on abortion from The Marist Poll."


"...There’s another thing too. Though abortion advocates use the term “pro-choice” as shorthand for pro-abortion, the polling shows that many – often most – people who identify as pro-choice actually support substantial restrictions on abortion.

Those who call themselves pro-life can be counted on to support such measures in overwhelming numbers, but so can majorities, or substantial minorities, of those who identify as pro-choice.
More than half of those who call themselves pro-choice would limit abortion to – at most – the first trimester. Seven in 10 who call themselves pro-choice support the end of abortion funding abroad – the policy enacted this week by President Trump...."

I think rape is a different situation.

In that case it really isn't the woman killing the child. It is the rapist's actions killing the child.

(01-27-2017 04:03 PM)Claw Wrote:  I think rape is a different situation.

In that case it really isn't the woman killing the child. It is the rapist's actions killing the child.

Does that hold true after the birth as well? So we let the kid be born, kill it, and then charge the rapist with murder as well..