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Chicago State Death Spiral
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-03-2017 06:03 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  Ben-- It seems to be just the replacement of the basketball floor itself. I'm not sure how often a typical floor will last.. but I know it gets a lot of use by other tournaments using it.

I remember it was a safety issue with the Cougars floor. What it is exactly I have no idea.

Can the floor be pulled up or is it permanently down?
04-03-2017 06:10 PM
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joshadam84 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-03-2017 06:10 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 06:03 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  Ben-- It seems to be just the replacement of the basketball floor itself. I'm not sure how often a typical floor will last.. but I know it gets a lot of use by other tournaments using it.

I remember it was a safety issue with the Cougars floor. What it is exactly I have no idea.

Can the floor be pulled up or is it permanently down?

Yeah, I do remember in one of the meeting minutes it said it was a safety issue.

I'm fairly certain it can be pulled up, but not 100% sure on it. I know the JDC can be (where their vb team plays). What makes sense isn't always what happens-- especially with some of the folks they have had in charge over the years.
04-03-2017 06:59 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-03-2017 06:59 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 06:10 PM)CrimsonPhantom Wrote:  
(04-03-2017 06:03 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  Ben-- It seems to be just the replacement of the basketball floor itself. I'm not sure how often a typical floor will last.. but I know it gets a lot of use by other tournaments using it.

I remember it was a safety issue with the Cougars floor. What it is exactly I have no idea.

Can the floor be pulled up or is it permanently down?

Yeah, I do remember in one of the meeting minutes it said it was a safety issue.

I'm fairly certain it can be pulled up, but not 100% sure on it. I know the JDC can be (where their vb team plays). What makes sense isn't always what happens-- especially with some of the folks they have had in charge over the years.

It could have been installed wrong or the WAC just wants those big black NCAA logos gone.
04-03-2017 07:07 PM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-03-2017 06:03 PM)joshadam84 Wrote:  Ben-- It seems to be just the replacement of the basketball floor itself. I'm not sure how often a typical floor will last.. but I know it gets a lot of use by other tournaments using it.

Thats good honestly, ive always been irked by their floor. The black NCAA logos and the standard color WAC logo, with the odd looking center court logo. Just looked off-putting. I hope they redesign it with the replacement. A skyline of Chicago would look phenomenal like a lot of schools use (Utah Valley with mountains for example). Seattle U really needs a new court design also.

Despite CSUs issues, they luckily have a great arena. I hope they can utilize it
(This post was last modified: 04-04-2017 12:05 AM by SeattleVandals.)
04-04-2017 12:04 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Well I took a couple weeks off from watching Chicago State and guess what happens? Another scandal. And this one is a whopper: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

A Texas-based pharmaceutical association filed a federal lawsuit Friday alleging a Chicago State University dean improperly withdrew about $650,000 from its accounts for her personal use.

The Student National Pharmaceutical Association contends Carmita Coleman, Chicago State's interim dean of the College of Pharmacy, siphoned hundreds of thousands of dollars from the organization's bank accounts for clothes, food and trips during five of the years she was executive director.


Amazing the thieves den Wayne Watson left. This gets better every day.
04-14-2017 12:20 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
History rears it's ugly head. Ethics violation by Wayne Watson to keep his job finally examined
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

This man is the one responsible for the situation. He is the the creator and the nurturer of the cancer, with his appointments and cronies, who are still on the board and hold most of the administrative positions. And here is the story of his madness to serve himself even when he was unmasked in 2013. Amazing
04-14-2017 12:35 AM
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RobtheAggie Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-14-2017 12:20 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Well I took a couple weeks off from watching Chicago State and guess what happens? Another scandal. And this one is a whopper: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

A Texas-based pharmaceutical association filed a federal lawsuit Friday alleging a Chicago State University dean improperly withdrew about $650,000 from its accounts for her personal use.

The Student National Pharmaceutical Association contends Carmita Coleman, Chicago State's interim dean of the College of Pharmacy, siphoned hundreds of thousands of dollars from the organization's bank accounts for clothes, food and trips during five of the years she was executive director.


Amazing the thieves den Wayne Watson left. This gets better every day.

If this is true, that is an amazing amount of money and hubris.

I hope the college survives with a group of leaders that are committed to the school as well as students and employees.
04-14-2017 07:59 AM
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joshadam84 Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-14-2017 12:20 AM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Well I took a couple weeks off from watching Chicago State and guess what happens? Another scandal. And this one is a whopper: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

A Texas-based pharmaceutical association filed a federal lawsuit Friday alleging a Chicago State University dean improperly withdrew about $650,000 from its accounts for her personal use.

The Student National Pharmaceutical Association contends Carmita Coleman, Chicago State's interim dean of the College of Pharmacy, siphoned hundreds of thousands of dollars from the organization's bank accounts for clothes, food and trips during five of the years she was executive director.


Amazing the thieves den Wayne Watson left. This gets better every day.

If you read the whole article it has nothing to do with Chicago State. She just happens to be employed at CSU, which if there's legal action then one would figure the employment may end as well.

This really has no relevancy to "Chicago State's Death Spiral."
04-14-2017 12:36 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
There is relevance. She was hired by Wayne Watson
04-14-2017 07:46 PM
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SDHornet Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-14-2017 07:46 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  There is relevance. She was hired by Wayne Watson

I agree. It shows the level of corruption and incompetence of the admin that was put in place. That culture of corruption and incompetence needs to be completely torn down before Chi State can have any hope of recovery. It would be negligent to not address those issues and think things (administration) will improve.

WAC needs to part ways from this Chi State debacle.
04-15-2017 12:08 AM
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Clarity Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Good thing Cal Baptist is coming in 2018 otherwise the WAC would really be in a tough spot.
04-15-2017 12:12 AM
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SeattleVandals Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-15-2017 12:12 AM)Clarity Wrote:  Good thing Cal Baptist is coming in 2018 otherwise the WAC would really be in a tough spot.

I think CBU joining means Chi State won't be renewed when their contact is up in 2018
04-15-2017 12:20 AM
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Clarity Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Yep I'm assuming that is what will happen as well.
04-15-2017 12:21 AM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #54
Chicago State turn around?
Notice the new title.

Three hugely positive pieces of news

1. Paul Vallas has started his new role as chief administrative officer
2. former Dean Rachel Lindsey replace Cecil Lucy as interim President
3. Nicki Zollar resigned from the board
// Ruaner will be able to appoint 2 more reformers to get 5 of 7 board members his own

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

Zollar was the last major obstacle to replacing the cronies left by her and Wayne Watson. The door is now open to clean up the administration.

I am less bullish on the ability to turn around enrollment declines in the immediate term, but I do think if they stick with it in by 2018-19 you will see the numbers starting to creep back up. But it's good. I think having a budget and mission focused leadership makes it more likely the Cougars wont continue in the WAC. Playing D-I did not improve attendance or enrollment, so I think that ego driven experiment will stop after the WAC contract. Anyway that is my view of what is likely. I wish Mr. Vallas and Ms. Lindsey success in getting Chicago State on track for success.
04-26-2017 06:42 PM
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CrimsonPhantom Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(04-26-2017 06:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Notice the new title.

Three hugely positive pieces of news

1. Paul Vallas has started his new role as chief administrative officer
2. former Dean Rachel Lindsey replace Cecil Lucy as interim President
3. Nicki Zollar resigned from the board
// Ruaner will be able to appoint 2 more reformers to get 5 of 7 board members his own

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

Zollar was the last major obstacle to replacing the cronies left by her and Wayne Watson. The door is now open to clean up the administration.

I am less bullish on the ability to turn around enrollment declines in the immediate term, but I do think if they stick with it in by 2018-19 you will see the numbers starting to creep back up. But it's good. I think having a budget and mission focused leadership makes it more likely the Cougars wont continue in the WAC. Playing D-I did not improve attendance or enrollment, so I think that ego driven experiment will stop after the WAC contract. Anyway that is my view of what is likely. I wish Mr. Vallas and Ms. Lindsey success in getting Chicago State on track for success.

The thing that has bothered me is they appointed an interim prez and then never had a search for a new prez. Did they really think that would go unnoticed? I swear all idiots drink from the same cauldron of BS and the results of them doing so turn out the same: Wasting time and no progress.
04-26-2017 06:54 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Just to keep things updated, so far no official release of numbers. But I found one article

https://www.ilnews.org/news/schools/meag...9f987.html

It says 145 Freshmen enrolled (up from 86 last year). But retention rate is only 58% and graduation rate in 6 years only 11%. So you are looking at 16 future grads with those numbers.

The article says there are 2,400 students on campus now, 900 graduate students. This seems off to me as ~3,150 was the count in February, and 3,500 last year at this time. If this is correct, then a net of another 600 to 700 students left.

The faculty blog and others are saying the reforms have stalled out, and the school is falling back on the same practices that caused the steep decline in the first place. I hope not. But if the numbers are right and the incoming continue to be that small, there may be only 1,800 students come Fall 2018 barely 1,000 undergrads. (Athletics are funded by almost 100% by enrollment fees, so this 30% drop in enrollment would mean an equal drop in funding)

I'll update when I get more detailed figures.
11-06-2017 03:10 PM
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RunnerBall Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(11-06-2017 03:10 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Just to keep things updated, so far no official release of numbers. But I found one article

https://www.ilnews.org/news/schools/meag...9f987.html

It says 145 Freshmen enrolled (up from 86 last year). But retention rate is only 58% and graduation rate in 6 years only 11%. So you are looking at 16 future grads with those numbers.

The article says there are 2,400 students on campus now, 900 graduate students. This seems off to me as ~3,150 was the count in February, and 3,500 last year at this time. If this is correct, then a net of another 600 to 700 students left.

The faculty blog and others are saying the reforms have stalled out, and the school is falling back on the same practices that caused the steep decline in the first place. I hope not. But if the numbers are right and the incoming continue to be that small, there may be only 1,800 students come Fall 2018 barely 1,000 undergrads. (Athletics are funded by almost 100% by enrollment fees, so this 30% drop in enrollment would mean an equal drop in funding)

I'll update when I get more detailed figures.

Just make sure its after the holidays as to not dampen the jolly mood around that time. 03-tired Seriously though, Stu, thx for the update.
(This post was last modified: 11-06-2017 04:07 PM by RunnerBall.)
11-06-2017 04:07 PM
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Stugray2 Offline
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Post: #58
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
Runnerball,

Between the Chicago decline and UMKC looking to drop divisions or switch conferences, it's looking like the "eastern wing" of the WAC wont be here very long.

BTW, I did look up the incoming players on Chicago State teams:
44 Freshmen, 26 JC transfers.

Observation (an aside): Unlike the student body most of the athletes are white. The Tennis teams are all foreigners except 1 American on both Men's and Women's (neither from Illinois). Sports team players again make up a large percentage of incoming Freshmen. Maybe that Pioneer League concept isn't so hair brained (uh, no, it's hair brained).

The other way to look at it is the ending of the budget impasse has seen incoming non-athlete freshmen jump from 48 to 101, basically doubling. The problem is they need at least 300 just to sustain 2,000 students with a 70% retention rate (assuming an equal number of JC transfers, and a immediate significant jump in retention of ten points). The actuarial result is another decline of 400-500 students seems likely even from this point to next year if new enrollments double again. The death spiral has not level out yet.
11-06-2017 04:37 PM
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HawaiiMongoose Offline
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Post: #59
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
(11-06-2017 04:37 PM)Stugray2 Wrote:  Runnerball,

Between the Chicago decline and UMKC looking to drop divisions or switch conferences, it's looking like the "eastern wing" of the WAC wont be here very long.

BTW, I did look up the incoming players on Chicago State teams:
44 Freshmen, 26 JC transfers.

Observation (an aside): Unlike the student body most of the athletes are white. The Tennis teams are all foreigners except 1 American on both Men's and Women's (neither from Illinois). Sports team players again make up a large percentage of incoming Freshmen. Maybe that Pioneer League concept isn't so hair brained (uh, no, it's hair brained).

The other way to look at it is the ending of the budget impasse has seen incoming non-athlete freshmen jump from 48 to 101, basically doubling. The problem is they need at least 300 just to sustain 2,000 students with a 70% retention rate (assuming an equal number of JC transfers, and a immediate significant jump in retention of ten points). The actuarial result is another decline of 400-500 students seems likely even from this point to next year if new enrollments double again. The death spiral has not level out yet.

A blessing in disguise IMHO. To become a genuinely stable conference the WAC will need to attract a couple more D-2 move-ups in the western U.S. Losing the eastern wing will make the conference more palatable to schools that fit that profile.
11-07-2017 01:35 AM
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Clarity Offline
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Post: #60
RE: Chicago State Death Spiral
It's certainly not a good thing to have 7 teams in the WAC which is what happens if UMKC and Chicago State leave. D2 move ups take a lot of time. If this conference is left at 7 it's over.
11-07-2017 02:45 AM
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